Why your ascendant is probably wrong!
- Thread starter capuranusnep
- Start date
I’ve gone on Astro.com and on there it’s saying Jupiter and Venus are my chart rulers.
Do you think that maybe your ascendant is wrong or have u looked into this already but chart rulers etc? Mc is an interesting subject isn’t it
david starling
Well-known member
Yes I feel I do identify with Venus but then, and I had to think about this, I also identify with mercury. My brain never shuts down. Venus and mercury
david starling
Well-known member
Yes it’s tricky but good to think to ensure right chart right birth time etc. Probs need a chart rectification to make sure
David Phoenix
Active member
WOW! CapUranusNep. Your post is quite a mouthful.
Let me add some clarification to your post.
First. Chart rectification is bogus. Hunting and pecking around your physical birth time by seconds, minutes or even hours of time to find your correct chart will frustrate even the most OCD among us. And it doesn't work unless you are lucky enough to stumble across the right time. And by right time I mean correct to the second in time.
Spiritual Birth Times are not rectified physical birth time charts. SBTs are calculated using a very complex algorithm. And they are exact, to the fraction of a second in time. Good luck trying to duplicate the algorithm. I have never found anyone who has done so.
In all the charts I have done I have only found one SBT that was later in time than the reported physical birth time. And that was by only a few minutes.
Someone added a comment "Is it proof-able?" Yes it is. In fact the verification process is absolutely necessary to determine which SBT is correct. Once the correct SBT chart is determined it works 100% of the time.
There are standards that should be met when looking at a natal chart. Here is one.
"The personality and physical appearance of the individual shall agree with the zodiacal sign on the Ascendant....especially the behavior and the face. It must be stressed that this is one of the most basic tenets of astrology. In general the ASC and first house rules the personality, the physical body and very specifically the head."
This can be modified somewhat if there is a planet in the first house close to the ASC. Sometimes the sign containing the Sun will also have an influence. For example Donald Trump. His SBT ASC is in the sign of Cancer. At 6'2" he is taller than average for a white, American male. His Sun is in Gemini. Mutable signs tend to be tall and slender. These kind of influences can be subtle.
Kannon McAfee and I communicated numerous times in the past. I haven't heard from him in years. He told me he found a method to determine SBTs without using the Incarn2 software. I said cool. Send me the chart you think is correct for you. I will check it. Being thrifty Kannon was often looking for a way to get his SBT chart or the Incarn2 software from me without paying for it. He cited various financial hardships for the reason. He was unaware of the following pledge I made.
"Not to be disclosed to the profane or anyone else without compensation for its value."
I got his self generated SBT chart and checked. It was wrong by quite a bit. I told him so but did not give him the correct time. Seems like after that was when our e-Mail exchanges stopped.
As you cited in your post M.John Wilner's books can be of great assistance in helping to understand and at least choose the correct sign on your ASC. It might be possible using that information alone to zero in on your exact SBT. Good luck. Be wary if you are using Kannon's "method" to determine your SBT. As his method did not work for his own chart as I found out.
One thing you can do to help your chart casting accuracy is to find the exact LAT and LON. Exact to the degree, minute and second of arc. This is where Google Maps can be a big help. It is often possible to find the position of a single residential house and maybe even the delivery room in a hospital.
Remember the LAT from Google is geographical. It must be converted to geocentric latitude, a function astrology programs will do by checking the appropriate option. Remember this. The difference between the geocentric and geographic latitude entered into an astrology program will result in a difference of about 10' of arc on the ASC at 40 degrees LAT. That will make chart verification impossible.
Physical birth timed charts do not work. Using nearest whole minute or hour times does not work Using hit or miss geographical locations does not work. Today's affordable and powerful computers loaded with fast, highly accurate astrology programs are a curse and a blessing. The blessing? The combination of hardware and software allows for high precision calculations. Much of that power and accuracy is wasted by entering inexact data. The curse? Anyone with the aforementioned hardware and software can whip out a chart in seconds along with canned partial interpretations and call themselves an astrologer.
If your are seriously interested in astrology break out the books. Study the basics. Planets, signs, houses and aspects. You should know a planet or sign or aspect by its glyph from memory and near instantly. If that is too much of a chore, like learning a foreign language, use a translator. You might become a dabbler but you will never really know astrology.
Can you create a chart by using your brain, some paper, an Ephemeris and table of houses?
Can you calculate secondary progressions with nothing more than an Ephemeris, a natal chart and an event date? How about a Solar Return chart? A relocated chart?
If not, why not? Learning these things will give you a far better understanding of the earth's rotation, the motions of the planets and the progression of time in a person's life.
Do you use declinations? Do you know what they are? Did you know that around half of all aspects formed by progression are found in declinations?
On 8 November, 2016 Donald Trump was elected as President of the US. From his Spiritual Birth Time chart here is one of the numerous astrological reasons he was elected:
PRO Mercury trine NAT MC, EXACT on election day. Sun ruler combined with MC.
Anyone here realize how significant this one aspect is to confirming that the correct chart was used? The progressed planet is forming an exact aspect to a major angle in the natal chart on the date in question. Not transits, not midpoints, not Solar Arc directions, not asteroids nor magical planets but a secondary progression of a regular natal planet using the Naibod arc in Right Ascension method.
If you know a method that produces better results I am very interested in learning what it might be.
As for this "Fred Bickum" character, I have no idea who that might be, because I am David Phoenix. ;<}
Let me add some clarification to your post.
First. Chart rectification is bogus. Hunting and pecking around your physical birth time by seconds, minutes or even hours of time to find your correct chart will frustrate even the most OCD among us. And it doesn't work unless you are lucky enough to stumble across the right time. And by right time I mean correct to the second in time.
Spiritual Birth Times are not rectified physical birth time charts. SBTs are calculated using a very complex algorithm. And they are exact, to the fraction of a second in time. Good luck trying to duplicate the algorithm. I have never found anyone who has done so.
In all the charts I have done I have only found one SBT that was later in time than the reported physical birth time. And that was by only a few minutes.
Someone added a comment "Is it proof-able?" Yes it is. In fact the verification process is absolutely necessary to determine which SBT is correct. Once the correct SBT chart is determined it works 100% of the time.
There are standards that should be met when looking at a natal chart. Here is one.
"The personality and physical appearance of the individual shall agree with the zodiacal sign on the Ascendant....especially the behavior and the face. It must be stressed that this is one of the most basic tenets of astrology. In general the ASC and first house rules the personality, the physical body and very specifically the head."
This can be modified somewhat if there is a planet in the first house close to the ASC. Sometimes the sign containing the Sun will also have an influence. For example Donald Trump. His SBT ASC is in the sign of Cancer. At 6'2" he is taller than average for a white, American male. His Sun is in Gemini. Mutable signs tend to be tall and slender. These kind of influences can be subtle.
Kannon McAfee and I communicated numerous times in the past. I haven't heard from him in years. He told me he found a method to determine SBTs without using the Incarn2 software. I said cool. Send me the chart you think is correct for you. I will check it. Being thrifty Kannon was often looking for a way to get his SBT chart or the Incarn2 software from me without paying for it. He cited various financial hardships for the reason. He was unaware of the following pledge I made.
"Not to be disclosed to the profane or anyone else without compensation for its value."
I got his self generated SBT chart and checked. It was wrong by quite a bit. I told him so but did not give him the correct time. Seems like after that was when our e-Mail exchanges stopped.
As you cited in your post M.John Wilner's books can be of great assistance in helping to understand and at least choose the correct sign on your ASC. It might be possible using that information alone to zero in on your exact SBT. Good luck. Be wary if you are using Kannon's "method" to determine your SBT. As his method did not work for his own chart as I found out.
One thing you can do to help your chart casting accuracy is to find the exact LAT and LON. Exact to the degree, minute and second of arc. This is where Google Maps can be a big help. It is often possible to find the position of a single residential house and maybe even the delivery room in a hospital.
Remember the LAT from Google is geographical. It must be converted to geocentric latitude, a function astrology programs will do by checking the appropriate option. Remember this. The difference between the geocentric and geographic latitude entered into an astrology program will result in a difference of about 10' of arc on the ASC at 40 degrees LAT. That will make chart verification impossible.
Physical birth timed charts do not work. Using nearest whole minute or hour times does not work Using hit or miss geographical locations does not work. Today's affordable and powerful computers loaded with fast, highly accurate astrology programs are a curse and a blessing. The blessing? The combination of hardware and software allows for high precision calculations. Much of that power and accuracy is wasted by entering inexact data. The curse? Anyone with the aforementioned hardware and software can whip out a chart in seconds along with canned partial interpretations and call themselves an astrologer.
If your are seriously interested in astrology break out the books. Study the basics. Planets, signs, houses and aspects. You should know a planet or sign or aspect by its glyph from memory and near instantly. If that is too much of a chore, like learning a foreign language, use a translator. You might become a dabbler but you will never really know astrology.
Can you create a chart by using your brain, some paper, an Ephemeris and table of houses?
Can you calculate secondary progressions with nothing more than an Ephemeris, a natal chart and an event date? How about a Solar Return chart? A relocated chart?
If not, why not? Learning these things will give you a far better understanding of the earth's rotation, the motions of the planets and the progression of time in a person's life.
Do you use declinations? Do you know what they are? Did you know that around half of all aspects formed by progression are found in declinations?
On 8 November, 2016 Donald Trump was elected as President of the US. From his Spiritual Birth Time chart here is one of the numerous astrological reasons he was elected:
PRO Mercury trine NAT MC, EXACT on election day. Sun ruler combined with MC.
Anyone here realize how significant this one aspect is to confirming that the correct chart was used? The progressed planet is forming an exact aspect to a major angle in the natal chart on the date in question. Not transits, not midpoints, not Solar Arc directions, not asteroids nor magical planets but a secondary progression of a regular natal planet using the Naibod arc in Right Ascension method.
If you know a method that produces better results I am very interested in learning what it might be.
As for this "Fred Bickum" character, I have no idea who that might be, because I am David Phoenix. ;<}
david starling
Well-known member
Phoenix, have you gotten any results for the 2020 Nov.3rd Election? How's that date relative to Trump's spiritual Chart, compared to Nov. 8th, 2016?
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
sourced from the following thread link
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1017195#post1017195
11-30-2019, 06:00 AM
petosiris
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,621
Re: Animodar
I have found a method that is more physical than this and does not involve the preceding syzygy or numerology.
Quote:
36. Nativities
When the moment of nativity is known, it can be examined instead of the moment of conception, the hours must be determined with knowledge of accidental qualities, and with one of the planets in perfect configuration with the Hour-Marker or the Midheaven at every conception and nativity
So, let the Ascendant or the Midheaven be in perfect conjunction, sextile, square, trine or opposition with one of the seven planets regardless of other factors.
We might theorize why this is so - conceptions and births of humans are powerful moments in nature that require the strongest influence of a planet on angles.
UPDATE
instead of the following
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1017195#post1017195
11-30-2019, 06:00 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,621
Re: Animodar
I have found a method that is more physical than this and does not involve the preceding syzygy or numerology.
Quote:
36. Nativities
When the moment of nativity is known, it can be examined instead of the moment of conception, the hours must be determined with knowledge of accidental qualities, and with one of the planets in perfect configuration with the Hour-Marker or the Midheaven at every conception and nativity
So, let the Ascendant or the Midheaven be in perfect conjunction, sextile, square, trine or opposition with one of the seven planets regardless of other factors.
We might theorize why this is so - conceptions and births of humans are powerful moments in nature that require the strongest influence of a planet on angles.
UPDATE
consider using the foregoing
instead of the following
1. Examine the preceding syzygy, whether it was a new moon or a full moon.
2. If the preceding syzygy was a new moon, observe its degree at the time of the nativity.
3. If the preceding syzygy was a full moon by night, we observe the degree of the syzygy. By day, we observe the degree opposite the syzygy, which is the degree of the luminary above the horizon (in that case the Sun).
4. Observe the degree at the approximate time of the nativity, and give a point to any of the following planets with rulership over the degree at the time of birth (see http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Ptolemy/Tetrabiblos/3A*.html#note9)
5. Give a point to any planet in the same sign as the degree or in sign with some aspect (sextile, square, trine or opposition) to it.
6. If one star is familiar with the degree in all or most of these ways, whatever degree of its sign it is passing at the time of birth, the same numerical degree is rising (Asc) or culminating (Mc) at the time of birth.
7. If two or more stars are predominators, observe the one that is closer to the approximate time. If it so happens that we do not have the nearest hour of birth, we can establish it through combination of accidental qualities. The foregoing rectification is for time with approximate hour.
David Phoenix
Active member
Hi david starling,
Thanks for your response and interest.
Here is the info you requested
What is happening in Trump's chart in the time frame of this year's election? Let's see.
1. PRO ASC sextile NAT Venus.
2. PRO Venus sextile PRO Moon.
3. PRO Mars semi-square NAT Mars (MC ruler).
4. PRO MC parallel PRO Pluto. For Biden this is the turn out the lights the party is over aspect.
5. PRO Pluto parallel NAT Sun in north declination. For Biden this is the lock the door on your way out aspect.
6. PRO North Node parallel NAT Venus, in north declination.
For the web page go here:
http://www.sbastro.com/Examples/who2020.htm
Thanks,
Fred Bickum
david starling
Well-known member
Thanks, great information!
Does this Covid-19 "situation", with Trump being quarantined and showing "mild symptoms so far", show up in the progressions?
David Phoenix
Active member
Hello again david,
Hmmm...This is a tough one for a number of reasons.
On what date exactly did the "infection" occur?
If Trump had a "flu shot" since 2005 he would show positive for Covid. Since most flu vaccinations contain the Covid virus.
"Mild symptoms"? And what might they be, exactly? Or is this a ruse? No way to tell for sure. It might be that Trump is using the left's media created panic about Covid to his own advantage. He does have Pluto in the 1st.
And does Trump consider this a major event in his life? Next time we meet I will ask him.
Generally infectious diseases are in the realm of Neptune with a possible interaction with Mars. I would look to PRO Neptune first. Since Covid is primarily an infection of the lungs I would look to Mercury also. Therefore I would look for some negative interaction between those things in the native's chart and the following.
For the individual I would look to the 6th house, its ruler and / or the ASC and its ruler for an indication of infection.
That means in Trump's case Jupiter(ruler 6th, posited in the 4th) and the Moon(ruler ASC, posited in the 5th). His natal 6th is unoccupied. His natal ASC contains Pluto. Should Pluto also be included? Death and rebirth and all that.
The only thing showing since the beginning of 2020 to date(3 OCT) in an interaction of the things listed above are two minor aspects between the Moon and Neptune. Remember PRO Moon aspects come and go in about four days(-4' before to +4' orb after)
On 30 July, 2020 PRO Moon 22 1/2* to NAT Neptune
On 2 September, 2020 PRO Moon 22 1/2* to PRO Neptune
In the immediate future I do not see an other deleterious interactions between the "bad" guys Neptune, Mars and possibly Mercury and the "good" guys, Jupiter, the Moon and possibly Pluto. Or any other progressions that might have a long term negative effect.
Take care,
David
Hmmm...This is a tough one for a number of reasons.
On what date exactly did the "infection" occur?
If Trump had a "flu shot" since 2005 he would show positive for Covid. Since most flu vaccinations contain the Covid virus.
"Mild symptoms"? And what might they be, exactly? Or is this a ruse? No way to tell for sure. It might be that Trump is using the left's media created panic about Covid to his own advantage. He does have Pluto in the 1st.
And does Trump consider this a major event in his life? Next time we meet I will ask him.
Generally infectious diseases are in the realm of Neptune with a possible interaction with Mars. I would look to PRO Neptune first. Since Covid is primarily an infection of the lungs I would look to Mercury also. Therefore I would look for some negative interaction between those things in the native's chart and the following.
For the individual I would look to the 6th house, its ruler and / or the ASC and its ruler for an indication of infection.
That means in Trump's case Jupiter(ruler 6th, posited in the 4th) and the Moon(ruler ASC, posited in the 5th). His natal 6th is unoccupied. His natal ASC contains Pluto. Should Pluto also be included? Death and rebirth and all that.
The only thing showing since the beginning of 2020 to date(3 OCT) in an interaction of the things listed above are two minor aspects between the Moon and Neptune. Remember PRO Moon aspects come and go in about four days(-4' before to +4' orb after)
On 30 July, 2020 PRO Moon 22 1/2* to NAT Neptune
On 2 September, 2020 PRO Moon 22 1/2* to PRO Neptune
In the immediate future I do not see an other deleterious interactions between the "bad" guys Neptune, Mars and possibly Mercury and the "good" guys, Jupiter, the Moon and possibly Pluto. Or any other progressions that might have a long term negative effect.
Take care,
David
david starling
Well-known member
I've been hesitant to say it might be a ruse, although I've been thinking it. Makes a great "October Surprise". Now that you say it doesn't stand out in his Chart for the Election, I'm more inclined to think so. He plays people like violins!
David Phoenix
Active member
Hi david
People think Trump is a bumbling liar. Both are true. BUT behind that is the razor sharp mind of a Sun conjunct Uranus in Gemini. He is a master troll. He has an endless supply of drivel to throw to the media and they gobble it up like candy. Then they spends days hashing it out on the talking head shows. While he gets on with what needs doing, having gained a few days respite.
I think there is chance that he just wanted a two week pre-election vacation. Of course he could not legitimately do that. Now he has a perfect excuse generated by leftist controlled media panic over 19. What a large laugh he must be having. Geminis do like to laugh and can see humor in the most droll of things.
Of course at the end of his two weeks off he can come out and publicly state. "I got it, I am (cured) not sick nor dead" then say "Next question".
I wonder if he ever considered the way JFK handled annoying question askers. By answering a question with a question. This deflected the need to answer the question and required the asker of the question to explain his motives for asking it in the first place. Brilliant.
Take care,
David
People think Trump is a bumbling liar. Both are true. BUT behind that is the razor sharp mind of a Sun conjunct Uranus in Gemini. He is a master troll. He has an endless supply of drivel to throw to the media and they gobble it up like candy. Then they spends days hashing it out on the talking head shows. While he gets on with what needs doing, having gained a few days respite.
I think there is chance that he just wanted a two week pre-election vacation. Of course he could not legitimately do that. Now he has a perfect excuse generated by leftist controlled media panic over 19. What a large laugh he must be having. Geminis do like to laugh and can see humor in the most droll of things.
Of course at the end of his two weeks off he can come out and publicly state. "I got it, I am (cured) not sick nor dead" then say "Next question".
I wonder if he ever considered the way JFK handled annoying question askers. By answering a question with a question. This deflected the need to answer the question and required the asker of the question to explain his motives for asking it in the first place. Brilliant.
Take care,
David
david starling
Well-known member
What's the parallel for his Venus/Saturn conjunction? I'm calling it the "Lucifer Effect". In his case, in Water, it gives the ability to play with people's emotions.
Last edited:
aquarius7000
Well-known member
This is perhaps the most sensible post on this thread.
I have often also seen threads here and elsewhere to the effect: I am Virgo rising, but I do not look neat and tidy. And then you will see the same native say elsewhere, since Mercury rules my Asc., I look younger than my actual age.
Why forget that 1) there are looks and characteristics wise more to Virgo Asc. than just looking neat and tidy. Perhaps you have Mars in the first house. Perhaps, being a Virgo Asc., you do feel much better and yourself when you do look neat and tidy (meaning when the Virgo energy comes thru stronger); 2) and this point I actually already elucidated- there could be some contradicting factors through aspects of personal planets to your Asc.
Of course with cusp/border cases, the TOB needs to be really accurate and it is that wee bit trickier.
aquarius7000
Well-known member
Hi,
If you are saying the Sun-Ura gives a razor sharp mind, I am not sure that I necessarily agree with the bit. Sun - Uranus does not really give the person a razor sharp mind. On the other hand, Ura-Merc could give one a good grasping power or coming up with ideas in the flash of a second. His Merc is no aspect to Uranus, not even in the same sign that you could count it as a wide conj.
Sun-Uranus, in my books, shows that the person is 'out of the box' or different from the norm contemporary to his times. That this bloke truly is.
The kind of innuendos and insults or cuss words he throws out there, or the crooked stuff like how best to avoid paying taxes or scamming others does not require a razor sharp mind in my opinion. With him, all that scamming and his big businesses are mostly the result of inherited wealth and the trump name that he has used to throw his 'weight' around and basically intimidate and bully others. For that he has mostly used his Mars in Leo and Leo Asc. at the critical 29th degree.
Last edited:
David Phoenix
Active member
Not exactly sure what you mean by "What's the parallel?" Do you mean declination? In his natal chart Saturn is N21*30', Venus is N22*50'. Planets are usually considered to be parallel if the orb is 1 degree or less. If you mean what is an interpretation for the Saturn / Venus conjunction that would be something else. Often this combination invokes mistrust in matters about relationships. It can also indicate larger than what is considered "normal" age differences between partners. Trump's last two marriages were to women who were quite a bit younger. Outside the "normal" age range.
The twelfth house is often viewed as the house of "self-undoing" and hidden enemies. Trump definitely has trust issues about people outside of his circle of family and friends.
As for emotional manipulation, his Cancer ASC wins this one.
The twelfth house is often viewed as the house of "self-undoing" and hidden enemies. Trump definitely has trust issues about people outside of his circle of family and friends.
As for emotional manipulation, his Cancer ASC wins this one.