Does anyone want to participate?

Being inspired (if that's the right word) by the test conducted by a scientist in an attempt to prove or disprove astrology (here's a thread about it: https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113735), I thought about organizing something similar on this site. I think it’s quite fun but I have no idea how many people here would like to participate.

So the idea is that I post some natal charts (I’m thinking 3-5 of them) without saying who those people are and apply a list of occupations that you have to match with the charts. Not that hard, is it. A similar "competition" has already taken place at Skyscript, for example: http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6600&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 You can use any zodiac, any house system, any technique to determine the occupations, but you have to explain your final choice. I’m going to find those charts on Astro Databank and although I’m not planning to give out the birth information initially, there may be some people who will cheat and find these people's pages so the explanation of your choices will be the proof that you are honest and came up with your decision using strictly astrological methods.

To do it I want to know that at least 5 people want to participate. There doesn’t seem to be that many astrologers around here so I’m really not sure if even 5 people are going to be interested and I see no point in finding the charts if no one cares. If you want to take part, also mention which number of charts you think is optimal (I think 5 is a reasonable number, but maybe most of you will want less or more) and what kind of charts you’d want to see (I’m going to post charts using the tropical zodiac and Placidus houses since they’re used most commonly, but if there are some extraordinary additions you’d like to see, let me know). If you have any other suggestions and ideas, also share them. And don't be afraid! I certainly don't expect everyone to be 100% correct, but I think it's a good exercise and an interesting challenge so give it a try. :joyful:
 

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
This game has been played before on this forum. I'm interested though I'm not making any promises that I will be able to participate for every chart.
 
This game has been played before on this forum. I'm interested though I'm not making any promises that I will be able to participate for every chart.

Really, it's been played before here? That's good to know! Could you find the link to the thread(s) where this was? I'd be very thankful. :joyful: I managed to find just one similar thread, and only at Skyscript. Maybe there was more activity on this forum before, I have no idea... Nowadays there seems to be only about 10 or so active users here which is... disappointing... :sad:

[added later]: Phoenix Venus, are you talking about this thread: https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99380 ? Yeah, it's very similar, but imo it's much harder because when sibylline posted charts, she didn't give any options of occupations. My plan is to post 5 charts at the same time and give 5 options which you have to match. I guess I may not create a new thread for that and use the one sibylline created though...

[added even later]: Uh, OK, later on sibylline actually gave 5 options. That's more like it.
 
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Inquisag

Well-known member
I was thinking of doing something similar to this, but with Mundane charts, after watching a Nova video (Secrets of the Psychics) which featured James Randi. Randi quote - "We are trying to get control of our lives. We are looking for power and Astrology offers you apparently a very old and very easy formula whereby you can do that.... I can't prove a negative, but I can prove that it is not very likely to be true."

When it comes to determining occupation from a published chart, it can be claimed that the Astrologer was familiar with the chart. To be real proof, a chart would need to be unpublished and include a sealed statement from the subject listing all of their jobs.

I think we have to determine exactly what it is we are trying to prove. We are trying to prove that the position of planets in our solar system at the time someone or something is born serve as a life map for the person or thing. Is there a more precise way to state what we are trying to prove?
 
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I was thinking of doing something similar to this, but with Mundane charts, after watching a Nova video (Secrets of the Physics) which featured James Randi. Randi quote - "We are trying to get control of our lives. We are looking for power and Astrology offers you apparently a very old and very easy formula whereby you can do that.... I can't prove a negative, but I can prove that it is not very likely to be true."

When it comes to determining occupation from a published chart, it can be claimed that the Astrologer was familiar with the chart. To be real proof, a chart would need to be unpublished and include a sealed statement from the subject listing all of their jobs.

Thank you for your reply! How exactly would you want to do it with mundane charts? I'm curious. I agree, it's usually very hard to find out if the astrologer cheated and has already seen the chart before. For a real serious test, the charts have to be kept in total secret before the test.

I think we have to determine exactly what it is we are trying to prove. We are trying to prove that the position of planets in our solar system at the time someone or something is born serve as a life map for the person or thing. Is there a more precise way to state what we are trying to prove?

I think your description of what we need to prove to make astrology scientifically valid is on point. No one says it's an easy task, however. Each chart contains an infinite amount of information in it, sometimes contradictory, and it's very hard to pin down what exact elements we need to write a successful description or give an accurate prediction. As I see it, in the end there should be one winner and one school of thought has to be proven right. But is it possible? I have no idea.
 

Inquisag

Well-known member
I think we can start with something simple that can be measured- the Full Moon. According to Astrology, children born under the Full Moon are likely to have issues with their eyesight and their parents are likely to have experienced discord between them around the birth time. A study can ascertain how often this happens, when the affect begins (degrees of waxing and waning), if it is affected by sign or house placement.
 
I think we can start with something simple that can be measured- the Full Moon. According to Astrology, children born under the Full Moon are likely to have issues with their eyesight and their parents are likely to have experienced discord between them around the birth time. A study can ascertain how often this happens, when the affect begins (degrees of waxing and waning), if it is affected by sign or house placement.

Hm, really, is that a common belief among astrologers? I think I've heard about it, but I don't think it's a very popular theory. I personally don't believe it's true but I may be wrong. I know some people who were born during the Full Moon but they don't have any particular issues with their eyesight.
 
I'm interested in playing the game as well.

We played a game similar to what you're proposing.

Here's the thread: https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99380

We would try to guess people's careers based on their charts.

Yaaaay, thanx d00d. I think I'll just do it in a couple of days then and won't wait till other people respond. Can't promise anything though. :whistling:

Yeah, that's the thread I linked before. :) Found it after I'd created the thread. Looks like it was pretty fun.
 

AppLeo

Well-known member
Yaaaay, thanx d00d. I think I'll just do it in a couple of days then and won't wait till other people respond. Can't promise anything though. :whistling:

Yeah, that's the thread I linked before. :) Found it after I'd created the thread. Looks like it was pretty fun.

Yeah it's super fun. Great way to practice your astrology skills.
 

Inquisag

Well-known member
It is something I read a while ago. I thought it it was in my Sakoian and Acker book, but it isn't. I found a reference on the web stating that the belief is from ancient Astrology - "In Ancient astrology, the perception of life indicated by the Sun and Moon was also understood directly and it was believed the right eye was ruled by the Sun and the left eye by the Moon. If the Sun and Moon formed a hard aspect, it was believed to bring afflictions to the eyes."

There is a 52 minute difference between the Sun Moon opposition in my chart and I have eyesight issues. If a study were to be done, quarter Moons and New Moons would need to be included as well, considering the ancient prescript.

What I am proposing would be quite a bit of work. I totally understand if no one else is interested in doing it.
 
It is something I read a while ago. I thought it it was in my Sakoian and Acker book, but it isn't. I found a reference on the web stating that the belief is from ancient Astrology - "In Ancient astrology, the perception of life indicated by the Sun and Moon was also understood directly and it was believed the right eye was ruled by the Sun and the left eye by the Moon. If the Sun and Moon formed a hard aspect, it was believed to bring afflictions to the eyes."

There is a 52 minute difference between the Sun Moon opposition in my chart and I have eyesight issues. If a study were to be done, quarter Moons and New Moons would need to be included as well, considering the ancient prescript.

What I am proposing would be quite a bit of work. I totally understand if no one else is interested in doing it.

Oh, so that's where it stems from. It makes sense to me now though I'm still not entirely sure if this would work in most cases. Your example, however, is very interesting. Such tight oppositions between the Sun and Moon are quite a rarity in natal charts and maybe it's more than just a coincidence in your case. In my chart the Sun and Moon square each other within approximately 4 degrees (so it's a hard aspect) and I've never had any issues with my eyesight. I wear glasses and my eyesight is not perfect but nothing out of the ordinary. It's still not the Full Moon though so I guess that's not what you want to test.

Yeah, it won't be easy to prove this idea. You should have access to a large database of birth certificates and know what people have eyesight problems. And then it'll take you a long time to process all this information and find out if there is some pattern or not. And what if there is no pattern? It would mean that all your efforts were futile. Well, you may say that you disproved one astrological claim but you certainly didn't prove astrology. So before beginning your research, you have to be prepared for a failure. I think that's the reason why (almost) no one tries to do it.
 

Inquisag

Well-known member
2nd test for image
view
 

Inquisag

Well-known member
Here is the link for the charts - https://drive.google.com/open?id=1z4OXyK6N5cwhH_NWOzWvJNcOlSAd2chF I tried to upload the photos directly, but it did not work. (Duh! Attachments might have worked, right?)

Most of the information for the charts was taken from the 2 threads I listed earlier:
Frisiangal
12-21-2006, 01:19 PM
Here are the charts for the 'eye complaint' ( Retinitis Pigmentosa) study, strong sight reduction but not totally blind, most of which manifested after birth:

Albert: 15.10.1950, approx. 11.30 a.m, Djakarta, Indonesia.
Manifestation around 46th year. ( Result of diabetes?)

Ineke: 14.06.1959, 11.03a.m, Amsterdam.
hereditary. Manifestation around 30th year.

Gerry: 04.01.1933, 11.55a.m, Krommenie, Netherlands.
Manifestation in 1990.

Gea (friend): 10.05.1943, 21.05, Hoogwoud, Netherlands.
Manifestation in 7th year. Heriditary.

Margriet: 03.03.1934, 10.18a.m, Geldrop, Netherlands.
Hereditary.

Belinda: 02.09.1981, approx. 4.00a.m, Gorinchem, Netherlands.
From early childhood.

Gerard: 22.01.1985, approx. 2.30a.m, Amsterdam.
From birth. 'Achondroplasie'

Geert: 12.10.1946, 16.40, Hoorn, Netherlands.
From birth.

Lynn: 7.05.1976, birthtime unknown, Grootebroek, Netherlands.
from 14th year.

Mario: 18.04.1953, birthtime unknown, Corfu, Greece.
From 12th year.

The 1 common factor in all was the harshly aspected Saturn (reduced light?), and to Chiron in most cases.

For the rest?......Have fun.:)

F.


Claire19
12-28-2006, 06:30 AM
I have tried to upload a chart of a completely blind girl from birth but no luck. The indications we need to look at are Mercury for senses, Mars for head area including eyes, Sun for the light, Saturn for the restriction and Neptune for the loss. The ruler of the 6th and 1st and any planets aspecting there.

Her details are 23 July 1999 at 3pm Sydney Australia.


For the other people: Ray=Ray Charles, Steveland=Stevie Wonder, Johanna=Anne Sullivan, Helen=Helen Keller, Sandra=me.

Looking at my plotted chart from the other post, I find it interesting that about half of the people are in the first quarter of the Moon waxing portion. As I was plotting the chart, it seemed to me that world location had some affect on where clusters formed. What are your thoughts?
 
Good job, Inquisag! Very interesting. I'm not completely decided what my thoughts on this are so far. As you said, about half of these people (7, if I'm not mistaken) were born during the first quarter of the Moon but I don't know if this means anything in this context. As for the effects of the Full Moon, it's not very conclusive either. Three people were born during the Full Moon, but even more (5, to be exact) were born during the New Moon.

I think you should create a new thread and use the information you posted here. It'll get more attention this way. Maybe some people will post other charts of people with eyesight problems or tell you where you can find more information about this. This may be a topic worth exploring so I think a new thread would be helpful, maybe on other sites as well, like SkyScript or Astrodienst.
 

Inquisag

Well-known member
Thank you Solar Flare! I would like to see what happens to the cluster when more charts are added. Plus, I am curious about Saturn aspects. Frisiangal mentioned that all the charts in her or his listing had harsh Saturn aspects. According to a contributor to the Lindaland thread, Mercury rules eyesight. I have a Mercury Saturn conjunction in my chart. It would be nice to see something conclusive. I guess I will do an involved study.

I had not thought of posting this on the Skyscript or Astrodienst forums. I will post in the medical Astrology section here first and check out the other two. Thanks for the information.
 
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