astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
- Thread starter lieror
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astrologer50
Banned
12th house ruler and 1st house ruler CANNOT be the same
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tsmall
Premium Member
12th house ruler and 1st house ruler CANNOT be the same
Unless ASC is in Aquarius...which is by some considered to be ruled by Saturn.
MSO
Well-known member
"By some" is a bit of an understatement
There's more to it than what sign is on the ascendant. If anything a Capricorn rising would be more inclined to lie than a Capricorn 12th House.
It comes down to the significator of manners and its condition.
tsmall
Premium Member
"By some" is a bit of an understatement
There's more to it than what sign is on the ascendant. If anything a Capricorn rising would be more inclined to lie than a Capricorn 12th House.
It comes down to the significator of manners and its condition.
MSO, I was trying to be "diplomatic?"
What is considered the significator of manners?
MSO
Well-known member
MSO, I was trying to be "diplomatic?"
1. Planet(s) in the first house.
2. Planet that rules the first house (if there are no planets in the first).
3. The Dispositor of the Significator.
If there is more than one significator, take the strongest one.
The dispositor is just the planet that has the most dignities in the first house. So if Jupiter is in Libra on the AC, then Venus would disposit Jupiter.
And so, when determining the person's manners, the qualities of the significator and dispositor are used. Both good, good nature. Both bad, bad nature. One good, one bad, good on the outside, bad on the inside. And so forth.
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astrologer50
Banned
If you use our search feature, there has been plenty of threads on here about this subject. I would look for mercury/neptune aspects myself and poss mercury 12th...
astrologer50
Banned
tsmall
Premium Member
Jerry...ouch? Though if we could also consider fictional writing as "lying..."
MSO
Well-known member
Hey, thanks.So I suppose if Venus is in fall...lol. Though if we are talking about manners, would that indicate the socitial "little white lies," with something else (poss. Part of Corruptness, eg) indicating lying for gain?
I don't know about the Parts, but I know that a benevolent planet having a malevolent planet as a dispositor shows a person who is nice on the outside, but mean on the inside. I have a friend like that who repeatedly makes promises he never keeps, and always blames it on other people.
Not that all people with this set-up are like that, but that's just my personal experience with it.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Mercury is known for his tricks - in fact Mercury's reputation as trickster made him a patron of thieves, Mercury rules functions of the mind–how you take in and process information, how you learn, how you think, how you strategize, how you communicate, talk and write. Your view of the world and your place in it is formed in large part by the way Mercury functions in your chart
So check out Mercury
Regarding 12th and 1st house having same ruler, that would apply to Saturn-ruled Capricorn and Aquariusi.e. Capricorn 12th house, Aquarius 1st house
Rebel Uranian
Well-known member
12th house ruler and 1st house ruler CANNOT be the same
Yes they can be. These are the planetary rulerships:
...(Capricorn)
Aquarius - Saturn
Pisces - Jupiter
Aries - Mars
Taurus - Venus
Gemini - Mercury
Cancer - Moon (Luminary)
Leo - Sun (Luminary)
Virgo - Mercury
Libra - Venus
Scorpio - Mars
Sagittarius - Jupiter
Capricorn - Saturn
(Aquarius)...
This would be every Aquarius riser in both whole signs and equal house. In other house systems, it could be anyone with a 1st house of less than 30 degrees so that the 1st and 12th house cusp are in the same sign. I don't think it makes someone a liar since it's pretty systematic and very common unlike aspects and ruler positions, but I'm not sure what exactly it does.
Whoever doubts trad rulerships is going solely by feelings.
[Yesh, I just said what JUPITERASC said in some ways. But I'm not getting rid of it after I typed it because some bits are quite different and I like the way I laid it out.]
@JUPITERASC - Would you say that Mercury is somewhat "malefic?" I've been getting the idea that it functions more similarly to Mars and Saturn than anything...
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MSO
Well-known member
Hey! I have Neptune square Mars and I never lied once in my life!
Also I'm rich. And famous. And I have a pet tiger named Ralph who eats skittles and pop tarts. And I-
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Not necessarily Rebel Uranian - Mercury tends to be a chameleon influenced by nearby planets. Mercury conjunct Saturn/Mercury conjunct Mars could be considered 'malefic' when contrasted with Mercury conjunct Jupiter for example