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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #76  
Unread 01-14-2019, 09:07 PM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part I - Zodiac

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
thanks for referring to the following comment SCU

the rules are made by moderators and apply to ALL of us members INCLUDING GUESTS

i.e.
This is the Traditional Astrology forum.
Out of all the different boards in this forum, this one is the home for traditional astrologers.
It was created so that traditional astrologers can discuss traditional astrology with each other,
without having to justify it to non-traditionalists
or be interrupted by people disagreeing with traditional perspectives
and you have violated that rule with the following interruption
disagreeing with our traditional perspectives

and so
guests follow our house rules
as stated by moderators
for example
I disagreed with ONE ancient astrologer's opinion concerning Capricorn, not with all "traditional perspectives". That's why I asked about the opinions of other ancient astrologers regarding that Sign.

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  #77  
Unread 01-14-2019, 09:11 PM
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Re: Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part I - Zodiac

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post

I disagreed with ONE ancient astrologer's opinion concerning Capricorn,
not with all "traditional perspectives".
That's why I asked about the opinions of other ancient astrologers regarding that Sign.
I simply quoted rules of our traditional board
and by the way, keep in mind
that since ours is a beginners learning forum
IF anyone has a genuine interest to study and learn traditional astrological opinion
of ANY or ALL ancient astrologers
then obviously great idea to read the original texts oneself
in order to form ones own opinion
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #78  
Unread 01-16-2019, 01:06 PM
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Re: Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part I - Zodiac

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Some academics have questioned the validity of ancient sources by saying they are too positive (3/12 royal signs?!), and then we have david on our forum.
Truthfully, people need to look at a chart themselves. Here is an easy and short guide to follow - https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=121677
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  #79  
Unread 01-16-2019, 01:17 PM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part I - Zodiac

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Truthfully, people need to look at a chart themselves. Here is an easy and short guide to follow - https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=121677
Then, why has Trad become considered as "Doom and Gloom" astrology?
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Unread 01-16-2019, 01:20 PM
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Re: Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part I - Zodiac

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Then, why has Trad become considered as "Doom and Gloom" astrology?
many have not even read any traditional texts
and are making assumptions based on not having read any traditional texts

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Truthfully, people need to look at a chart themselves.
Here is an easy and short guide to follow - https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=121677
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #81  
Unread 01-16-2019, 01:39 PM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part I - Zodiac

Oddity on the Traditional view of Capricorn placements:
"Ya'll are doomed." This was Thanked by 3 other Traditionalists.
Q.E.D.
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Re: Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part I - Zodiac

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post


Oddity on the Traditional view of Capricorn placements:
"Ya'll are doomed."
This was Thanked by 3 other Traditionalists.
Q.E.D.
Traditional board is for traditional astrologers and their guests
GENUINE guests follow the rules of our traditional board
Q.E.D.

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=120411
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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part I - Zodiac

The zodiac completes a sidereal cycle in 23.93446 hours. The twelvefold circle has no beginning, but it is so-held to begin with Cancer.
The image of the Crab is feminine, nocturnal, changeable, watery, amphibian, notable, silent, fertile, digging, with many limbs, two-coloured, rising backwards, lying and of the west wind. It indicates household, travel, matters standing in the way, water, celebrations, those who become theatrical, constantly changing, luxurious, pleasure-loving, party-giving, unsteady of mind, those who get involved in many activities and those who say one thing, but think another, wanderers, hucksters, retailers, moneylenders, gardeners and those who cultivate the paths. Depending on the placement of the houseruler, men born under the influence of Cancer are small, popular, ambitious, wealthy, travelling and wandering because the Crab and the Moon do not walk straight, lavish, mindful, public, cheerful, with large face, wide head, sunken eyes, higher lower part of the body, crooked teeth, shaggy hair and dark.

Domicile of the Moon, exaltation of Jupiter, depression of Mars, it controls the chest, the respiratory system, the upper gastrointestinal tract and the eyesight, especially the left eye, and it indicates skin diseases on account of the rough skin and blindness on account of the Beehive Cluster. It is like-empowered with Taurus and like-ascending with Libra, tall in the Northern Hemisphere and short in the Southern Hemisphere. It is summery, hot and dry in the north, and wintry, cold and moist in the south. Cancer commands Scorpio in the north and obeys it in the south. Cancer controls Noumidia, Carthage, Africa, Bithynia, Phrygia and Colchica. The back and the first two limbs are rising up to the 7th degree, the next two limbs and the Beehive Cluster up to the 13th, the head and the next two limbs up to the 19th, the last two limbs and the claws up to the 26th, and the pincers up to the 30th.

The first 7° belong to Mars - hostilities, dangers, travel
The next 6° belong to Venus - passionate, graceful
The next 6° belong to Mercury - intelligent, trade, speech
The next 7° belong to Jupiter - good fortune, some are religious
The final 4° belong to Saturn - irregular, restless

Eyes - Mercury and moderately Mars
Claws - Saturn and Mercury
Beehive Cluster - Mars and the Moon
Asellus Borealis and Asellus Australis - Mars and the Sun

The image of the Lion is masculine, diurnal, solid, terrestrial, quadrupedal, feral, royal, vocal, semi-infertile, passionate, fierce, running and of the north wind. It indicates action, reputation, superiors, harsh matters, quarrels, those who are imperious, stable, haters of evil, beneficent and inflated with lofty thoughts. Depending on the placement of the houseruler, men born under the influence of Leo are large, distinguished, independent, reliable, just, despising flattery, haughty, irascible, daring, with fine face, smooth, small ears because the Lion rarely listens to the talk of others, higher upper part of the body, thin-set teeth, rugged, flushy and bright. The front is robust, but the back is weaker.

Domicile of the Sun, it controls the sides, the circulatory system, the nervous system and the eyesight, especially the right eye, and it indicates blindness on account of the Coma Star Cluster. It is like-empowered with Aries and like-ascending with Virgo, tall in the Northern Hemisphere and short in the Southern Hemisphere. It is summery, hot and dry in the north, and wintry, cold and moist in the south. Leo commands Libra in the north and obeys it in the south. Leo controls Italy, Gaul, Apulia, Phoenicia, Chaldaea and Orchenia. The head and Regulus are rising up to the 6th degree, the front up to the 11th, the belly up to the 18th, the back up to the 24th, and the tail up to the 30th.

The first 6° belong to Jupiter - elevation, friendships with superiors
The next 5° belong to Venus - good fortune, friendships with superiors
The next 7° belong to Saturn - magnitude, of many years, infertile
The next 6° belong to Mercury - intelligent, some are winners of games
The final 6° belong to Mars - misfortune, dangers, passionate

Head - Saturn and moderately Mars
Throat - Saturn and moderately Mercury
Regulus - Jupiter and Mars
Hip and Denebola - Saturn and Venus
Thighs - Venus and moderately Mercury

The image of the Maiden is feminine, nocturnal, double-bodied, human, winged, agricultural, common, eloquent, infertile, incomplete, standing and of the south wind. It indicates exchanges, affairs, eloquence, trade, mysticism, mysterious matters, those who are useful, industrious, pure, modest, well-educated, the lovers of learning, those who are ready to do anything when they are provoked, writers, physicians, business expediters, administrators of goods, stewards, secretaries, accountants, those who work in the fields, actors, astrologers and those who are spendthrifts in youth, but who become prosperous over the course of time. Depending on the placement of the houseruler, men born under the influence of Virgo are large, well-proportioned and graceful, managing, articulate, meticulous, popular, mystical, temperate, with fine face, fine straight body, round beautiful bright eyes, drawn nostrils, fine lips because the Maiden is charming in conversation, exchanging, thick chin and bright hair.

Domicile and exaltation of Mercury, depression of Venus, it controls the abdomen, the vestibular system, the gustatory system and the auditory system. It is equinoctial, like-empowered with Pisces, like-ascending with Leo and like-engirding with Gemini, tall in the Northern Hemisphere and short in the Southern Hemisphere. It is autumnal, cold and dry in the north, and vernal, hot and moist in the south. Virgo controls Babylonia, Mesopotamia, Assyria, Hellas, Achaia and Crete. The head and the shoulders are rising up to the 7th degree, the hands, the belly and the wings up to the 17th, the lower part up to the 21st, the robe and the feet up to the 28th, and Spica up to the 30th.

The first 7° belong to Mercury - teachers, philosophers, mathematicians
The next 10° belong to Venus - cheerful, freedom from oppression and care
The next 4° belong to Jupiter - notable and with friendships
The next 7° belong to Mars - brilliant, some belong to the military or tribunals
The final 2° belong to Saturn - ups and downs, notable, risks

Head and Zavijava - Mercury and moderately Mars
Southern Wing and Girdles - Mercury and moderately Venus
Vindemiatrix - Saturn and Mercury
Feet - Mercury and moderately Mars
Spica - Venus and moderately Mars

The image of the Scales is masculine, diurnal, changeable, human, economical, judicial, common, semi-eloquent, semi-fertile, sitting and of the east wind. It indicates disputes, affairs, crafts, trade, changes, superiors, violent matters, those who are judges, lawyers, merchants, the supervisors of crops, vineyards, olive groves, aromatics, homesteads, measures, posts, crafts and the grain supply. Depending on the placement of the houseruler, men born under the influence of Libra are well-proportioned and graceful, notable, just, supervisors, artisans, encountering many vicissitudes because the tipping of the Scales, covetous, average, youthful, with fine face, fine figure, beautiful eyes, poetical, thick lips, beautiful hair and white.

Domicile of Venus, exaltation of Saturn, depression of the Sun, it controls the hips and the buttocks, the olfactory system, the reproductive organs and the secondary sex characteristics. It is like-empowered with Aquarius, like-ascending with Cancer and like-engirding with Taurus, tall in the Northern Hemisphere and short in the Southern Hemisphere. It is autumnal, cold and dry in the north, and vernal, hot and moist in the south. Libra obeys Leo in the north and commands it in the south. Libra controls Bactriana, Casperia, Serica, Thebais, Oasis and Troglodytia. The hand and the handle are rising up to the 6th degree, the balance beam up to the 14th, the chains and Alpha Librae up to the 21st, the weighing pans up to the 28th, and the base up to the 30th.

The first 6° belong to Saturn - destructive, grief from loved ones, reductions of wealth
The next 8° belong to Mercury - versatile, fertile
The next 7° belong to Jupiter - allotments, inheritances, gifts of land
The next 7° belong to Venus - good fortune, kind, musical, clean
The final 2° belong to Mars - strength, leadership, abundance

Extremities - Jupiter and Mercury
Middle - Saturn and moderately Mars

The image of the Scorpion is feminine, nocturnal, solid, terrestrial, creeping, servile, silent, fertile, poisonous, fierce, thievish, with many limbs, lying and of the west wind. It indicates inquiries, deception, lawsuits, mysticism, fights, expectations of something good, those who are generals, military commanders, destroyers of property, thieves, murderers, traitors, burglars and haters of their own families. Depending on the placement of the houseruler, men born under the influence of Scorpio are disproportioned and awkward, tricky, turbulent, base, covetous, lying, bitter because the Scorpion is stingy, competitive, powerful, with short head, delicate voice, round light green eyes, sharp nose, lower lip bent, coarse hair and dark. The front is weaker, but the back is robust.

Domicile of Mars, depression of the Moon, it controls the reproductive organs, the muscular system, the urinary system, the lower gastrointestinal tract, and it indicates skin diseases on account of the rough skin and blindness on account of the sting. It is like-empowered with Capricorn, like-ascending with Gemini and like-engirding with Aries, medium in both Hemispheres. It is autumnal, cold and dry in the north, and vernal, hot and moist in the south. Scorpio obeys Cancer in the north and commands it in the south. Scorpio controls Metagonitis, Mauritania, Gaetulia, Syria, Comangene and Cappadocia. The claws are rising up to the 7th degree, the head up to the 11th, the body and Antares up to the 19th, the back up to the 24th, and the sting up to the 30th.

The first 7° belong to Mars - embezzlements, dangers, travel
The next 4° belong to Venus - fortune, those who advance unexpectedly through others
The next 8° belong to Mercury - abiding, some become bankers and administrators
The next 5° belong to Jupiter - increase, advancements, inheritances
The final 6° belong to Saturn - necessity, constraint, infertile

Forehead - Mars and moderately Saturn
Body - Mars and moderately Jupiter
Joints - Saturn and moderately Venus
Sting - Mars and Mercury
M7 - Mars and the Moon

The image of the Archer is masculine, diurnal, double-bodied, terrestrial, human, quadrupedal, winged, royal, semi-eloquent, infertile, enigmatic, incomplete, with many limbs, running and of the north wind. It indicates governorship, action, fights, gifts, disputes, commanding and austere matters, those who are kingly, judges, just, those who love their brothers and their friends and who become superior to their enemies, those who lose much of their possessions, but who gain them back over the course of time. Depending on the placement of the houseruler, men born under the influence of Sagittarius are large, well-proportioned and graceful, notable, ambitious, generous, versatile, changeable, prominent, mysterious because the Archer is unintelligible, gifted, crafty, with bald forehead, round small eyes, intentional, long-bearded, athletic, bragging and red. The front is weaker, but the back is robust.

Domicile of Jupiter, it controls the thighs, the reproductive system, the digestive system and the integumentary system, and it indicates blindness on account of the eye. It is tropical, like-ascending with Taurus and like-engirding with Pisces, medium in both Hemispheres. It is wintry, cold and moist in the north, and summery, hot and dry in the south. Sagittarius obeys Gemini in the north and commands it in the south. Sagittarius controls Tyrrhenia, Celtica, Spain, Arabia Felix, Elymais and Iberia. The arrow, bow and grip are rising up to the 12th degree, the head up to the 17th, the back up to the 21st, the wings up to the 26th, and the tail up to the 30th.

The first 12° belong to Jupiter - powers, leaders, lords of life and death, undaunted, kingly
The next 5° belong to Venus - flow, distress, passionate
The next 4° belong to Mercury - notable, fond of frivolous conversation, well-grown
The next 5° belong to Saturn - high spirits
The final 4° belong to Mars - travel, dangers, lawsuits

Arrow Point - Mars and the Moon
Bow and Grip - Jupiter and Mars
Forehead - Mars and the Sun
Cloak and Back - Jupiter and moderately Mercury
Feet - Jupiter and Saturn
Tail - Venus and moderately Saturn

The image of the Goat-Horned One is feminine, nocturnal, changeable, watery, amphibian, servile, vocal, infertile, enigmatic, outrageous, passionate, thievish, incomplete, missing limbs, two-natured, sitting and of the south wind. It indicates inquiries, accusations, separations, water, property, cheerful and untruthful matters, those who endure misfortune, toilsome, unfortunate mistakes, lameness, shameful, those who are two-natured, pretending goodness and sincerity, always criticizing, fickle, brutal, criminal, warped, bad, fond of jokes, insomniacs, hunchbacks, sculptors, farmers, those with nautical bent and waterside trades, lovers of pleasures, business expediters, initiates in the mysteries, guardians of the secret matters and plotters of great deeds. Depending on the placement of the houseruler, men born under the influence of Capricorn are small, burdened, deviant, lying, pretentious, inventive, unattractive, mysterious because the Goat-Horned One is unintelligible, curious, with sloping face, fine figure, beautiful black eyes, black hair, thick lips, sharp chin and lean.

Domicile of Saturn, exaltation of Mars, depression of Jupiter, it controls the knees, the skeletal system, the lymphatic system and the immune system, and it indicates skin diseases on account of the rough skin and blindness on account of the spine. It is like-empowered with Scorpio, like-ascending with Aries and like-engirding with Aquarius, short in the Northern Hemisphere and tall in the Southern Hemisphere. It is wintry, cold and moist in the north, and summery, hot and dry in the south. Capricorn obeys Taurus in the north and commands it in the south. Capricorn controls India, Ariana, Gedrosia, Thrace, Macedonia and Illyria. The horns are rising up to the 7th degree, the head and the feet up to the 14th, the belly up to the 22nd, the back up to the 26th, and the tail up to the 30th.

The first 7° belong to Mercury - abdominal birth, dangers, intelligent
The next 7° belong to Jupiter - notable, preservative power
The next 8° belong to Venus - luxury, passionate
The next 4° belong to Saturn - summons, harsh, authoritative
The final 4° belong to Mars - concealments, bonds, flights

Horns - Venus and moderately Mars
Mouth - Saturn and moderately Venus
Feet and Belly - Mars and Mercury
Tail - Saturn and Jupiter

The image of the Water-Pourer is masculine, diurnal, solid, watery, human, servile, semi-eloquent, semi-infertile, standing and of the east wind. It indicates inquiries, affairs, crafts, water, property, advantageous and completed matters, those who work with hard materials, those who are troubled by athletic training, construction workers, wealthy, malicious, haters of their own families, incorrigible, those who make living by the waterside places, betrayers of reputation and truth, accusers, haters of mankind, godless and uncontrollable. Depending on the placement of the houseruler, men born under the influence of Aquarius are burdened, envious, lying, occasionally generous because of the uncontrollable flow of the Water-Pourer, artisans, public, mystical, youthful, delicate, with beautiful figure, beautiful eyes, smooth hair, dizzy, beautiful manners and white.

Domicile of Saturn, it controls the lower legs, the skeletal system, the lymphatic system and the immune system, and it indicates blindness on account of the water. It is like-empowered with Libra, like-ascending with Pisces and like-engirding with Capricorn, short in the Northern Hemisphere and tall in the Southern Hemisphere. It is wintry, cold and moist in the north, and summery, hot and dry in the south. Aquarius obeys Aries in the north and commands it in the south. Aquarius controls Sauromatica, Oxiana, Sogdiana, Arabia, Azania and Middle Ethiopia. The left hand and the head are rising up to the 7th degree, the body and the right hand up to the 13th, the pitcher up to the 20th, the water up to the 25th, and the falling water up to the 30th.

The first 7° belong to Mercury - mastery, lovers of wisdom
The next 6° belong to Venus - friendships with great women
The next 7° belong to Jupiter - notable, some are winners of games
The next 5° belong to Mars - lawsuits, injuries, some die violent deaths
The final 5° belong to Saturn - education, grief in youth

Shoulders, Left Arm and Cloak - Saturn and Mercury
Thighs - Mercury and moderately Saturn
Water - Saturn and moderately Jupiter

The image of the Fishes is feminine, nocturnal, double-bodied, watery, submerged, notable, silent, fertile, passionate, missing limbs, polycentric, two-coloured, swimming, mossy, motile, lying and of the west wind. It indicates governorship, travel, wealth, water, summons and plots, those who become endowed with genius, unsteady, trustworthy, those who are full of ideas, the philosophers, commanders of the fleets, traders, hound-leaders, hunters, seamen, fowlers, bird-keepers and business expediters. Depending on the placement of the houseruler, men born under the influence of Pisces are small, disproportioned and awkward, complicated because of the directions of the Fishes, changeable, restless, mystical, slight, wandering, popular, slightly sallow, delicate, with ruddy head, fish eyes, beautiful hair, soft hands, bright voice and white.

Domicile of Jupiter, exaltation of Venus, depression of Mercury, it controls the feet, the reproductive system, the digestive system and the integumentary system, and it indicates skin diseases on account of the rough skin. It is equinoctial, like-empowered with Virgo, like-ascending with Aquarius and like-engirding with Sagittarius, short in the Northern Hemisphere and tall in the Southern Hemisphere. It is vernal, hot and moist in the north, and autumnal, cold and dry in the south. Pisces controls Phazania, Nasamonitis, Garamantica, Lydia, Cilicia and Pamphylia. The southern fish head and the southern fish body are rising up to 12th degree, the southern tail up to the 16th degree, the southern cord up to the 19th, the northern fish up to the 28th, and the bond up to the 30th.

The first 12° belong to Venus - fertile, jealousy, with many enemies
The next 4° belong to Jupiter - advancement, elevation, commanding
The next 3° belong to Mercury - intelligence, well-grown, highly frivolous
The next 9° belong to Mars - violent, excessive, with many accusations
The final 2° belong to Saturn - virtuous, wise, dominant

Head of the Southern Fish - Mercury and moderately Saturn
Body of the Southern Fish - Jupiter and Mercury
Southern Tail and Cord - Saturn and moderately Mercury
Body of the Northern Fish - Jupiter and moderately Venus
Northern Cord - Saturn and Jupiter
Bond - Mars and moderately Mercury

The image of the Ram is masculine, diurnal, changeable, terrestrial, quadrupedal, agricultural, royal, vocal, semi-infertile, passionate, two-coloured, running and of the north wind. It indicates governorship, fights, wealth, family, lawsuits, livestock, commanding matters, those who are governing, brilliant, procuratorial, authoritarian, quickly changing, two-toned, with decorations of clothing, just, hard on offenders, fiery and the cause of rank. Depending on the placement of the houseruler, men born under the influence of Aries are independent because of the horns of the Ram, distinguished, bold, intimidating, wealthy, boastful, restless, youthful, with long face, broad forehead, black eyes, drawn nostrils, thin lips, strong voice, sloping shoulders and red. The front is robust, but the back is weaker.

Domicile of Mars, exaltation of the Sun, depression of Saturn, it controls the head, the muscular system, the urinary system and the lower gastrointestinal tract. It is like-empowered with Leo, like-ascending with Capricorn and like-engirding with Scorpio, short in the Northern Hemisphere and tall in the Southern Hemisphere. It is vernal, hot and moist in the north, and autumnal, cold and dry in the south. Aries commands Aquarius in the north and obeys it in the south. Aries controls Brittania, Galatia, Germania, Palestine, Idumaea and Judaea. The front and the horns are rising up to the 6th degree, the head up to the 12th, the body up to the 20th, the hind foot up to the 25th, and the tail up to the 30th.

The first 6° belong to Jupiter - elevation from low conditions to greater
The next 6° belong to Venus - love, friendships and intercourse with distinguished women
The next 8° belong to Mercury - intelligent, well-grown, love of labour, advancements
The next 5° belong to Mars - grief, passionate, injuries, unprofitable entanglements
The final 5° belong to Saturn - two-faced, some are trustees, teachers, judges or administrators

Head - Saturn and Mars
Mouth - Mercury and moderately Saturn
Hind Foot - Mars
Tail - Venus

The image of the Bull is feminine, nocturnal, solid, terrestrial, quadrupedal, agricultural, notable, vocal, semi-fertile, passionate, incomplete, missing limbs, rising backwards, sitting and of the south wind. It indicates celebrations, affairs, agriculture, family, property, cattle, disturbing and enraging matters, those who are prudent, skillful, pleasure-loving, music-loving, with priesthood, brilliant and worthy of crowns and of the purple. Depending on the placement of the houseruler, men born under the influence of Taurus are disproportioned and awkward, energetic because of the hard-working strength of the Bull, industrious, supervisors, luxurious, wealthy, generous, distinguished, charming, with full face, broad forehead, large eyes, large nostrils, big lips, pointed chin, square neck and broad outward brows. The front is robust, but the back is weaker.

Domicile of Venus, exaltation of the Moon, it controls the neck, the olfactory system, the reproductive organs and the secondary sex characteristics, and it indicates blindness on account of the Pleiades. It is like-empowered with Cancer, like-ascending with Sagittarius and like-engirding with Libra, medium in both Hemispheres. It is vernal, hot and moist in the north, and autumnal, cold and dry in the south. Taurus commands Capricorn in the north and obeys it in the south. Taurus controls Parthia, Media, Persia, Cyclades, Cyprus and Lesser Asia. The beginning of the truncated body and the Pleiades are rising up to the 8th degree, the Hyades up to the 14th, the face and Aldebaran up to the 22nd, the horns up to the 27th, and the tips of the horns up to the 30th.

The first 8° belong to Venus - love, skilled in the arts, graceful
The next 6° belong to Mercury - peaceful, leadership, trustees
The next 8° belong to Jupiter - beauty, reputation, unexpected advancements
The next 5° belong to Saturn - relaxations, reduction of wealth
The final 3° belong to Mars - violent, condemnations, lawsuits, injuries

Beginning - Venus and moderately Saturn
Pleiades - Jupiter and the Moon
Hyades - Saturn and moderately Mercury
Aldebaran - Mars
Tips of the Horns - Mars

The image of the Twins is masculine, diurnal, double-bodied, human, common, eloquent, semi-fertile, rising backwards, standing and of the east wind. It indicates disputes, affairs, eloquence, trade, mysticism, gentle and austere matters, those who are educated, scholars, poetical, music lovers, declaimers, stewards, those who receive some trusts, translators, merchants, judges of good and evil, sensible people, the astrologers and guardians of the secret matters. Depending on the placement of the houseruler, men born under the influence of Gemini are sensible, changeable, curious, articulate, prudent, public, mystical, temperate, with fine face, good complexion, large beautiful eyes, open nostrils, fine lips because the Twins are charming in conversation, exchanging, broad shoulders and white. The front is weaker, but the back is robust.

Domicile of Mercury, it controls the shoulders, arms and hands, the vestibular system, the gustatory system and the auditory system. It is tropical, like-ascending with Scorpio and like-engirding with Virgo, medium in both Hemispheres. It is summery, hot and dry in the north, and wintry, cold and moist in the south. Gemini commands Sagittarius in the north and obeys it in the south. Gemini controls Hyrcania, Armenia, Mantinea, Cyrenaica, Marmarica and Egypt. The feet are rising up to the 6th degree, the lower legs up to the 12th, the lower parts up to the 17th, the higher parts up to the 25th, and the heads, Castor and Pollux up to the 30th.

The first 6° belong to Mercury - stillness, obstructions, rest
The next 6° belong to Jupiter - good fortune, kind
The next 5° belong to Venus - bloom, beautiful, fortunate from unexpected things
The next 7° belong to Mars - powerful, regulative authority, advancing
The final 6° belong to Saturn - subordination, bonds, reduction of wealth

Feet - Mercury and moderately Venus
Thighs - Saturn
Castor - Mercury
Pollux - Mars

Andromeda - Venus
Aquila - Jupiter and Mars
Auriga - Mars and Mercury
Boötes - Saturn and Mercury, Arcturus - Jupiter and Mars
Cassiopeia - Saturn and Venus
Cepheus - Saturn and Jupiter
Coma Berenices - Venus and the Moon
Corona Borealis - Venus and Mercury
Cygnus - Venus and Mercury
Delphinus - Saturn and Mars
Draco - Saturn, Jupiter and Mars
Hercules - Mercury
Lyra - Venus and Mercury
Ophiuchus - Saturn and moderately Venus
Pegasus - Mars and Mercury
Perseus - Saturn and Jupiter, Cluster - Mars and Mercury
Sagitta - Mars and moderately Venus
Serpens - Saturn and Mars
Triangulum - Mercury
Ursa Major - Mars
Ursa Minor - Saturn and moderately Venus

Ara - Venus and moderately Mercury
Argo - Saturn and Jupiter
Canis Major - Venus, Sirius - Jupiter and moderately Mars
Canis Minor - Venus, Procyon - Mercury and moderately Mars
Centaurus - Venus and Mercury, Equine Body - Jupiter and Venus
Cetus - Saturn
Corona Australis - Saturn and Mercury
Corvus - Saturn and Mars
Crater - Venus and moderately Mercury
Eridanus - Saturn, Achernar - Jupiter
Hydra - Saturn and Venus
Lepus - Saturn and Mercury
Lupus - Saturn and moderately Mars
Orion - Saturn and Jupiter, Shoulders - Mars and Mercury
Piscis Australis - Venus and Mercury

Such, then, are the observations of the effects of the stars as made by our predecessors. Let us now proceed with the seven-zone.

Bibliography:
Ludwich, A. (Ed.). (1877). Maximi et Ammonis carminum De actionum auspiciis reliquiae: accedunt Anecdota astrologica. BG Teubneri. Retrieved from https://archive.org/details/maximiet...00ludw/page/n3
Manilius, & Goold, G. P. (1985). Astronomica. BG Teubner.
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...blos/home.html
Schmidt, R. The Astrological Record of the Early Greek Sages. Project Hindsight.
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf
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Re: Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part I - Zodiac

Re: Masculine and feminine in astrology
Quote:
It wasn't easy to shoe-horn the signs into this gender system. We do get some contradictions. Taurus the bull is male, but the sign is ruled by Venus. Scorpio, as a water sign, is feminine, but it is traditionally ruled by Mars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

The Bull and the Goat-Horned One have their male organs cut off, the other four feminine signs are either missing or do not have them big enough to be noticed, compared to the Ram, Twins, Lion, the person holding the Scales, Archer and Water-Pourer. It seems to me an apparent visual thing judged by the constellation, rather than the seasonal reason given by Ptolemy, for if he was correct, we would have a male Maiden and female Ram
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

A bull's genitals are intact. A castrated bull becomes a steer. The goat-fish's lower body is the fish part. I've not seen any signs portrayed with genital organs but perhaps I'm missing something. In Islamic sects that forbid depiction of the human figure, Aquarius is depicted as an urn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

It is a truncated body by Hellenistic accounts, such as in Ptolemy or Valens. It is not an ox, but simply the Bull without its hind parts (there is actually a myth about this).



Quote:
In Islamic sects that forbid depiction of the human figure, Aquarius is depicted as an urn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Aquarius is the Water-Pourer. The ''Great Man''. The Arabs always had plenty of human figures, most inherited from the Greeks. So I do not get where you got that (mis?)information. Indians have only a pitcher, but the male figure is implicit, as in Libra.


.
Quote:
The goat-fish's lower body is the fish part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Have you ever seen a human-like male organ on the body of a fish?



Source - Bouché-Leclercq, A. (2014). L'astrologie grecque. Cambridge University Press. https://ia802909.us.archive.org/24/i...00boucuoft.pdf

.
Quote:
I've not seen any signs portrayed with genital organs but perhaps I'm missing something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

It is really hard to image maidens, scorpions, crabs and fishes to have human-size male organs. The constellations can be just female. If they were male, it would also be hard to tell in amphibians and reptiles unless you know what sexual dimorphism you are looking for. They are also clearly missing from the above pictures. Rams, Lions, Horses and Human Males have clear phallic significance contributing to the birth of males. Here is Sagittarius' from Egypt:




And here from Mesopotamia:



Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post


Sigh.... Petosiris, I have a dry sense of humour. Sometimes too dry.
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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

I was really being serious.
Could the gender of the signs
come from the constellations,
well absolutely.
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Re: Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part I - Zodiac

Here is Manilius' ''explanation'' of gender:

Quote:
''My song must first mark the differing nature of the signs according to sex. For six are masculine, whilst as many, led by the Bull, are of the opposite sex : you see how he rises by his hind limbs when he reappears. They alternate their sex, changing one after another round the circle.'' - Manilius, & Goold, G. P. (1985). Astronomica. BG Teubner.
Quote:
Goold's comment:
"'(1) 150-154: Masculine (Aries, Gemini, Leo, Libra, Sagittarius, Aquarius) and feminine (Taurus, Cancer, Virgo, Scorpio, Capricorn, Pisces). The criterion is not so much sex as the Pythagorean notion that odd numbers are male, even female. Of the male signs Libra is occasionally conceived (so apparently at 2. 528) as a male figure holding the balance. Taurus seems strange in group of females, though the absence of its hind quarters and its backward rising make the oddest speculations possible ; and Capricorn’s great beard is yet a further challenge to one’s credulity. - ibid.''
The Bull and the bearded Goat are reasonable objections to make, but they do not stand with the image being presented. Taurus is a mutilated sign, and Capricorn is imperfect (cf. Ptolemy 4.9). It is true that Ptolemy's account presupposes numerological and seasonal principle, but I doubt it based on the presented imagery. The chance of each image randomly fitting its gender is 0.00024414062, clearly only a god could arrange them that way.

Last edited by petosiris; 01-16-2019 at 07:32 PM.
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Re: Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part I - Zodiac

You can also check ibn Ezra's Book of Reasons for information on crippled signs.

So strange that this got noted, and so many people ignored it, or seemed to over the years, then someone would explain it all over again.
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Re: Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part I - Zodiac

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You can also check ibn Ezra's Book of Reasons for information on crippled signs.

So strange that this got noted, and so many people ignored it, or seemed to over the years, then someone would explain it all over again.
Is this addressed to me? You probably mean the reference to Taurus, Cancer, Scorpio, Capricorn and Pisces, yes?
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Re: Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part I - Zodiac

Can people get trolled with thanks? Yes, they can.
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Talking Re: Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part I - Zodiac

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Can people get trolled with thanks? Yes, they can.
Petosiris please continuing your lecture about marriage house in this thread. Thank you.
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Re: Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part I - Zodiac

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Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post

Petosiris please continuing your lecture about marriage house in this thread.
Thank you.
you probably refer to the following comment on another thread
a member asked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karenstars View Post

second marriage is seen from 11th house
and lord mars is in 4th house with venus and moon.
Jup is seeing 11th house
and lord mars also seeing it and strengthening.
Can anyone explain what the above statement means.
I am not sure how to interpret this statement
these were replies to that question
which did not provide a chart by the way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post

For Firmicus, marriage was 10th house.
For most after, it was 7th house.
A second marriage would be either 10th house or 7th house, depending
on who you follow. It doesn't change houses because it's a different marriage.
Can you give us the source for that quote?
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Most Greeks used 2-4 houses for relatives, so
Thrasyllus quotes Hermes and Valens himself use 7th and 10th for wives (marriage).
As far as I know, those are the only two places used in the tradition.
I also have not heard 11th, so I am confused by the above post.
It is post-ascending the X, but that does not strike me as enough rationale
for assigning second marriage there.
I also don't think one should change houses for second or third marriage.
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Re: Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part I - Zodiac

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What's the female version of Mars as an evening star? This sounds like the origin of "Gender Fluidity" !
Here is an example of Venus as a morning star in a masculine sign - Gemini Rising, Venus in Leo, Sun in Virgo. Since the third sign indicates relatives, and this one is royal with Venus which indicates the ''the wearing of crowns'', the nativity had distinguished male cousins with ''remarkable reputation''. Now, although they were male, they had very graceful appearance and passionate character on account of Venus, and their occupations were similar to their souls, for one of them had the graceful occupation of mixing colours and photography, and the other of tourist accommodation. Get it?
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