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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #1  
Unread 01-19-2019, 01:46 PM
SunConjunctUranus SunConjunctUranus is offline
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About Profection

Hello Trad

There are few questions about basic profection:

Can the ascendant and/or lord of the year still be valid if the nativity is in a different location from the location of their daily life?

What if in the current profection lord of the year sign/house contained 2 or many planets in natal chart? Which planet to decided as the lord of the year?

Thank you very much for taking time to giving answer.

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Unread 01-19-2019, 01:54 PM
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Re: About Profection

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post

Hello Trad
There are few questions about basic profection:
Can the ascendant and/or lord of the year still be valid
if the nativity is in a different location from the location of their daily life?
If the person has travelled from birth location of natal chart
to some other permanent new and different location
then

by exmining profections, Solar Return
as well as other Time Lord Techniques based on natal chart at natal location
a competent traditional astrologer
discerns the indicators of such travel to a daily life location that differs from natal location
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Unread 01-19-2019, 02:16 PM
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Re: About Profection

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post

Hello Trad

There are few questions about basic profection:
Can the ascendant and/or lord of the year still be valid if the nativity is in a different location from the location of their daily life?

What if

in the current profection lord of the year
sign/house contained 2 or many planets in natal chart?
Which planet to decided as the lord of the year?
Thank you very much for taking time to giving answer.
Traditional astrologers use methods based on natal chart at birth location
and so
the ascendant and/or Lord of the Year aka LOY
is valid for natal location even if person resides now
in completely different location


LoY aka Lord of Year = planetary ruler of Annual Profection
and
that planetary ruler of the annual Profection

is therefore

one of the seven classical planets
Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn
that rules the profected ascendant

IF profected ascendant contains two or more classical planets
then for more information on consequences of
profected ascendant house containing one, two or more planets

consider the following previous dialogue on this issue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post

Just note that a planet or planets in the profected sign will be the year rulers.
If you have nothing in Gemini and Gemini is the profected ascendant,

then Mercury is lord of the year.
If, however, Venus is in Gemini natally,
then Venus will be lady of the year, displacing Mercury.
And so forth.
BUT
IN CONTRAST

petosiris responded on another thread to Oddity
by providing the following extensive clarification
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

''before all, it is necessary to investigate the lord of the year and its mixture and position and phase, and the planets that see it by fixity and by transit, and how it was situated at the nativity, and how it was found at the time of the transit.'' - Hephaistio of Thebes, Apotelesmatics Book II Schmidt translation p. 81

There is a bit of difference from author to author on how to use Annual Profections.
Everyone agrees that the ruler of the sign using the above mentioned diagram is ''Lord of the Year''.
What Oddity alludes to
is an approach in Valens
and some authors
of activated planets taking over the Lord of the Year in the given sign,
even transiting ones in Valens.
''If one of the stars in transit has entered this place, then it will be transmitting the chronocratorship.''

Dorotheus does not change Rulers, and combines annual profection with a solar revolution as a transiting chart to evaluate its strength over the year.
Note that Valens is somewhat innovating with Profections
as he walks every single thing in the chart
- all planets, places and lots.
Personally I do not like that approach at all.
I look at the planets in the activated signs as more powerful, but
not as Time Lords.
Also I do not profect anything but the Hour-Marker.
I've also noticed Lord of the Year transits
as well as transits over the whole year through the activated places as powerful as well.
Notice how all Hellenistic astrologers
suddenly start talking about transits when using profections.
This seems to originate from the founder of yearly and monthly profections
- King Nechepso who provided some delineations, quoted by Valens:

''The native obtains great advancement if the star of Jupiter, while being chronocrator, is at MC or in the Place of Accomplishment with the star of Mars. When Jupiter and Mars are providing the active impulse, it will be necessary to see if the star of Saturn is coming into a transit or opposition, with the result that the chronocratorship of occupations becomes contrary. If <Mercury> is favorably situated at the nativity, the native will engage in greater activities, proportionate to the distinction of the nativity - for this is changed to that and that is changed to this by differences in the hours of birth...'' - Valens Book VII p. 137 Riley

I think the reason Valens and others changed the original idea, is
that they started looking at profections as in terms of places,

while
I believe the original approach was to look at the Ruler of the Sign.
The technique originally was to establish the Lord of the Year,

not the house of the year.
Notice Nechepso's monthly profection:

''The King had this opinion about the operative month: determine the distance from the sun’s current position to the moon’s position at birth, then count that distance from the Ascendant. It will be necessary to examine the ruler of the sign where the count stops to see if it is in operative signs, and to make a judgement about the stars in conjunction or in aspect, whether benefic or malefic. (For day births, determine the distance from the moon’s current position to the sun’s position at birth; count that from the Ascendant'' - Valens, p. 97 Riley

It emphasizes the Ruler, not the place of the profection.
That is how I use profections.
In my opinion annual profections can be separated into two categories of Lord of the Year and Ruling Place approaches.
I believe Paulus follows Nechepso.
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Unread 01-19-2019, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Traditional astrologers use methods based on natal chart at birth location
and so
the ascendant and/or Lord of the Year aka LOY
is valid for natal location even if person resides now
in completely different location
Is this answer number 1, Jupiter? "Even if the person resides now"?

From my understanding before which I knew this technique called as "Solar Return", the current year must be casting in where the nativity are locating.

So the tradition keep the nativity's birth place to casting the current year profection even though the nativity reside now?

This quote from petosiris:

"I think the reason Valens and others changed the original idea, is
that they started looking at profections as in terms of places"

Did you mean this is why tradition keep it birth location?

Last edited by SunConjunctUranus; 01-19-2019 at 03:12 PM.
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Unread 01-19-2019, 05:48 PM
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Re: About Profection

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post


Is this answer number 1, Jupiter? "Even if the person resides now"?
From my understanding before which I knew this technique called as "Solar Return",

the current year must be casting in where the nativity are locating.
That's a modernist astrology idea
and
keep in mind that
since the natal promise of the natal chart cannot be over-ruled
relocating A SOLAR REVOLUTION cannot alter the natal promise
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  #6  
Unread 01-19-2019, 05:55 PM
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Re: About Profection

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post


So the tradition keep the nativity's birth place to casting the current year profection

even though the nativity reside now?

This quote from petosiris:
"I think the reason Valens and others changed the original idea, is
that they started looking at profections as in terms of places"
Did you mean this is why tradition keep it birth location?
If my meaning was unclear
then I'm assuming I have clarified my meaning satisfactorily for you
by having already stated on my previous post
that

nothing can over-rule the natal promise


and so
a popular modernist custom
of travelling to some preferable location
at the time of a SOLAR REVOLUTION
in an effort to create better circumstances for that year
makes no difference

i.e.
IF natal promise includes
or indicates
potential of improving circumstances
or not
then
SOLAR REVOLUTION located at natal location
indicates whether those circumstances are potentially occurring
or not
during that SOLAR REVOLUTION
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  #7  
Unread 01-19-2019, 06:36 PM
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Talking Re: About Profection

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
That's a modernist astrology idea
and
keep in mind that
since the natal promise of the natal chart cannot be over-ruled
relocating A SOLAR REVOLUTION cannot alter the natal promise
This is already powerful statement.
Thanks Jupiter!
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  #8  
Unread 01-20-2019, 12:38 AM
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Re: About Profection

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post
Is this answer number 1, Jupiter? "Even if the person resides now"?

From my understanding before which I knew this technique called as "Solar Return", the current year must be casting in where the nativity are locating.

So the tradition keep the nativity's birth place to casting the current year profection even though the nativity reside now?

This quote from petosiris:

"I think the reason Valens and others changed the original idea, is
that they started looking at profections as in terms of places"

Did you mean this is why tradition keep it birth location?
SCU, are you talking about profections, or are you talking about solar return charts? Those are different things.

A solar return chart is a chart cast for the moment at which the sun returns to the exact degree and minute it was at when you were born.

Profection is a technique that's used, usually along with the solar return chart, to get more sense of what's going on this year, and which planetary transits will be felt the most strongly. In traditional astrology, not every planet in the birth chart is active at any given time. What's currently active is the time lord and any other planets activated by profection.

For profection, you take the original birth chart--which was cast, of course, for the place of birth--and rotate the ascendant one sign per year. Your first year of life, when you're 0 years old, your profected ascendant is the same as your natal one, and its ruler is your time lord. On your first birthday, the second sign from your ascendant becomes your profected ascendant, and its ruler becomes your time lord. On your second birthday, third sign, and so on. When you turn 12, your first sign is profected again, and the cycle restarts. Same at age 24, 36, and all other multiples of 12.

Planets are activated by profection if they're the time lord for the year, or if they're in the currently profected sign, or if they're in the same sign as the time lord.

For example, suppose you're in an eleventh house profection year, your eleventh sign from your ascendant is Pisces, you have Mercury and Venus in Pisces, and Jupiter and the moon in Taurus. By profection, Jupiter is your time lord (only traditional sign rulers are used for this purpose). Mercury and Venus are activated because they're in the profected sign, and your moon is also activated because it's in the same sign as the time lord.

Note that this technique has nothing to do with where you currently live. All you need is your original birth chart. But to cast a solar return chart, you need a reference place, because that determines its angles and houses.

Last edited by Osamenor; 01-20-2019 at 12:41 AM. Reason: **** autocorrect insists on changing profection to protection!
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  #9  
Unread 01-20-2019, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
SCU, are you talking about profections, or are you talking about solar return charts? Those are different things.

A solar return chart is a chart cast for the moment at which the sun returns to the exact degree and minute it was at when you were born.

Profection is a technique that's used, usually along with the solar return chart, to get more sense of what's going on this year, and which planetary transits will be felt the most strongly. In traditional astrology, not every planet in the birth chart is active at any given time. What's currently active is the time lord and any other planets activated by profection.

For profection, you take the original birth chart--which was cast, of course, for the place of birth--and rotate the ascendant one sign per year. Your first year of life, when you're 0 years old, your profected ascendant is the same as your natal one, and its ruler is your time lord. On your first birthday, the second sign from your ascendant becomes your profected ascendant, and its ruler becomes your time lord. On your second birthday, third sign, and so on. When you turn 12, your first sign is profected again, and the cycle restarts. Same at age 24, 36, and all other multiples of 12.

Planets are activated by profection if they're the time lord for the year, or if they're in the currently profected sign, or if they're in the same sign as the time lord.

For example, suppose you're in an eleventh house profection year, your eleventh sign from your ascendant is Pisces, you have Mercury and Venus in Pisces, and Jupiter and the moon in Taurus. By profection, Jupiter is your time lord (only traditional sign rulers are used for this purpose). Mercury and Venus are activated because they're in the profected sign, and your moon is also activated because it's in the same sign as the time lord.

Note that this technique has nothing to do with where you currently live. All you need is your original birth chart. But to cast a solar return chart, you need a reference place, because that determines its angles and houses.
Concise and cogent. Very nice.
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  #10  
Unread 01-20-2019, 04:10 AM
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Talking Re: About Profection

Ms Osamenor thank you very much for taking your time to explained about profection. I want to personally apologize to you about arguing your ascendant and it's lord because I should have learn more extensively before arguing to more experienced. I feel very fortunate to get free course from you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
SCU, are you talking about profections, or are you talking about solar return charts? Those are different things.
Profection, ms Osamenor. Before I created this thread, my understanding about profection is it was just same as solar return.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
A solar return chart is a chart cast for the moment at which the sun returns to the exact degree and minute it was at when you were born.

Profection is a technique that's used, usually along with the solar return chart, to get more sense of what's going on this year, and which planetary transits will be felt the most strongly.
Could we use Profection without Solar Return [and in reverse]?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
In traditional astrology, not every planet in the birth chart is active at any given time. What's currently active is the time lord and any other planets activated by profection.

For profection, you take the original birth chart--which was cast, of course, for the place of birth--and rotate the ascendant one sign per year. Your first year of life, when you're 0 years old, your profected ascendant is the same as your natal one, and its ruler is your time lord. On your first birthday, the second sign from your ascendant becomes your profected ascendant, and its ruler becomes your time lord. On your second birthday, third sign, and so on. When you turn 12, your first sign is profected again, and the cycle restarts. Same at age 24, 36, and all other multiples of 12.

Planets are activated by profection if they're the time lord for the year, or if they're in the currently profected sign, or if they're in the same sign as the time lord.
Okay, this should be the method to define the Lord of the Year in Profection.

Excuse me, ms Osamenor. ASC is Lord of the Year, so this raise me a question, how to function the other measured point such as MC, DC, IC, and maybe part of fortune [If this necessary] in profection?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
For example, suppose you're in an eleventh house profection year, your eleventh sign from your ascendant is Pisces, you have Mercury and Venus in Pisces, and Jupiter and the moon in Taurus. By profection, Jupiter is your time lord (only traditional sign rulers are used for this purpose). Mercury and Venus are activated because they're in the profected sign, and your moon is also activated because it's in the same sign as the time lord.
Ouh, so Venus, Mercury, and Moon are activated but they're not the Lord of the Year. Now, I understand what was mr Oddity said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
Note that this technique has nothing to do with where you currently live. All you need is your original birth chart. But to cast a solar return chart, you need a reference place, because that determines its angles and houses.
Hmmm... Ya ms Osamenor, but I might need to watch more Chris Brennan's channel on YouTube to understand it in deeper level.

Thank you very much ms Osamenor.
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  #11  
Unread 01-20-2019, 11:49 AM
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Re: About Profection

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post

SCU, are you talking about profections, or
are you talking about solar return charts?

Those are different things.
A solar return chart is a chart cast for the moment
at which the sun returns to the exact degree and minute it was at
when you were born.
..................
to cast a solar return chart, you need a reference place
because that determines its angles and houses.
the natal chart Ascendant is based on birth location
and then
the Ascendant that is being Profected to find Lord of the Year aka LOY
is based on natal chart Ascendant

Traditionally
the reference place for your SOLAR REVOLUTION aka SOLAR RETURN chart
is also your birth location natal chart

i.e.
Traditionally, Solar Revolution aka Solar Return chart
AND
Profection chart
are BOTH based on birth location of natal chart
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Unread 01-20-2019, 11:58 AM
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Re: About Profection

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post

Before I created this thread,
my understanding about profection is
it was just same as solar return.
Could we use Profection without Solar Return
[and in reverse]?
Traditional astrologers use BOTH Profection
as well as SOLAR REVOLUTION
aka modern terminology SOLAR RETURN

A marked difference between a SOLAR REVOLUTION aka SOLAR RETURN
and a YEARLY PROFECTION chart
is
a YEARLY or ANNUAL PROFECTION chart completes a cycle every TWELVE YEARS
before RETURNING TO THE NATAL ASCENDANT SIGN

i.e.
every twelve years the same Lord of the Year is activated by PROFECTION

whereas in contrast
a SOLAR REVOLUTION aka SOLAR RETURN
does not usually repeat the same ascendant or rising sign on a regular basis
- all that is repaated with a SOLAR REVOLUTION is
the DEGREE LOCATION of the NATAL SUN
which is the same for every SOLAR REVOLUTION
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Last edited by JUPITERASC; 01-20-2019 at 12:02 PM.
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Unread 01-20-2019, 12:42 PM
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Re: About Profection

The Following Profection Wheel illustrates
that
A FIRST HOUSE PROFECTION YEAR is experienced EVERY TWELVE YEARS


The numbers on the outer wheel
are the numbers of the natal houses
all the other numbers are the ages of a person for each Profected year


i.e.
A FIRST HOUSE PROFECTION YEAR COMMENCES
at the age of zero (i.e. for the year COMMENCING AT BIRTH),
twelve, twenty-four, thirty-six, forty-eight
sixty, seventy-two, eighty-four

A SECOND HOUSE PROFECTION YEAR begins EVERY TWELVE YEARS
i.e.
at the ages of one, thirteen, twenty-five, thirty-seven, forty-nine,sixty-one, seventy-three, eighty-five

and so on around the PROFECTION WHEEL

and then
to easily find which ANNUAL PROFECTION you are experincing
find the number relevant to your current age
and note which house has your current chronological age number
and that house
using WHOLE SIGN HOUSES
is the Ascendant sign of your current ANNUAL PROFECTION
and the ruler of that Annually Profected Sign is Lord of the Year aka LOY


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Unread 01-20-2019, 01:41 PM
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Re: About Profection

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post

Is this answer number 1, Jupiter? "Even if the person resides now"?
From my understanding before which I knew this technique called as "Solar Return",
the current year must be casting in where the nativity are locating.
"Solar Return" is modernist terminology for the ancient SOLAR REVOLUTION technique

also
keep in mind that
since the natal promise of the natal chart cannot be over-ruled
relocating A SOLAR REVOLUTION cannot alter the natal promise
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post

This is already powerful statement.
Thanks Jupiter!
Indeed - a basic traditional astrological principle

NEVERTHELESS
do keep in mind that
as BobZemco frequently emphasised
when he commented years ago
that
Traditional Astrology is very hierarchical.
and there is an hierarchy of charts
and so
nothing
either on the same level as natal astrology
or below the level of natal astrology
supercedes the promise of the natal chart

i.e.
for example

Solar Revolution, Profection and other Time Lord techniques
are on the same level as natal astrology
but cannot supercede the promise of the natal chart

and keep in mind that

natal astrology is one level above the level of Horary Astrology
and so
Horary Astrology cannot supercede the promise of a natal chart
so

Horary Astrology cannot deny something already promised by natal chart
neither can Horary Astrology grant something denied by natal chart

and
because MUNDANE ASTROLOGY is ABOVE the level of Natal Astrology
we find the following traditional advice
previously posted on bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki thread
which states as follows
and which I now quote because of its relevance to TRADITIONAL HIERARCHY of charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post

Clearly, all these people DID have one thing in common
i.e.
THEY WERE ALL LOCATED IN A CITY
ON WHICH AN ATOMIC BOMB WAS DROPPED.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivia View Post

And that is the key right there,
not analysing 90,000 charts for hylegs, alchocodens,
primary directions that could have prematurely cut the alchocodens' years short, etc. etc.

Taking a page from Avraham the Spaniard, otherwise known as ibn Ezra, one of the first things he tells astrologers is that astrology does not contravene natural law. He also explains that a personal chart falls under quite a hierarchy of other considerations.

From Nativities and Revolutions:

https://www.bendykes.com/product-category/nativities/

...The third way is the rule that comes from the effect of the Great Conjunction on each country. Thus, if within the influence of the Conjunction upon the nations war is supposed to befall a certain nation, even if many of those born in it do not have an indication of death by the sword in their nativities, when the time for war for that country comes, they will all be killed....

There's quite a lot more, but no need to quote all of it, one hopes.

I agree that ibn Ezra sums up the matter
- particularly

QUOTE:

'......even if
many of those born in it do not have an indication
of death by the sword in their nativities, when the time for war
FOR THAT COUNTRY comes, they
will all be killed....'
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Unread 01-20-2019, 06:29 PM
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Re: About Profection

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post
Ms Osamenor thank you very much for taking your time to explained about profection. I want to personally apologize to you about arguing your ascendant and it's lord because I should have learn more extensively before arguing to more experienced. I feel very fortunate to get free course from you.
No apology needed--just look at the chart first if you want to tell me what's in mine!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post
Could we use Profection without Solar Return [and in reverse]?
Solar return can certainly be used without profection. By modern astrologers, it usually is. Profection is a traditional astrology technique. That doesn't mean modern astrologers never use it, but if they do, they're borrowing it from traditional. Modern astrologers are much more likely to read solar return alone (though not without matching it with the original natal--how the solar return chart interacts with the natal is crucial to the interpretation), and perhaps somewhat differently from how traditional astrologers use the solar return chart.

Profection could be used without the solar return chart, just to determine which planets are activated by profection. To make that determination, you don't need the full solar return chart, you just need the original natal chart, and you need to know how old the native is. But once you've figured that out, profection is typically used along with the solar return chart. Together, they tell us a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post
Excuse me, ms Osamenor. ASC is Lord of the Year, so this raise me a question, how to function the other measured point such as MC, DC, IC, and maybe part of fortune [If this necessary] in profection?
My knowledge of profections is pretty bare bones, so maybe someone who uses them more can flesh it out, but... my understanding is that when you profect the ascendant, everything else in the chart moves houses. For example, I'm in an eighth house profection year right now. My eighth sign is Leo. I have the sun in Leo, but nothing else (so my sun is very active right now, by profection, but nothing else is, because the sun doesn't rule any other signs). I have Mercury and Venus in Virgo, which is my ninth sign (although all quadrant systems put them in my eighth house). By profection, though, they're in my second house (profection works with whole sign houses, even if you're using a quadrant system for everything else). My Libra MC, meanwhile, is in my third profected house.

However, with ascendant profection, only the house the ascendant is profected to, and the house its ruler is in if different, and the other house ruled by the time lord (unless the time lord is the sun or the moon), are activated. Since I don't have Virgo or Libra activated by profection right now, that doesn't mean much, in my understanding.

It's also possible to do profections using any planet or point. You could, for instance, profect the MC to the next sign when you're 1 year old (or 13, or 25), and rotate it around the chart. Or the sun. Or the moon. Or anything else. But that's separate from profecting the ascendant, and provides different information.
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Unread 01-20-2019, 06:45 PM
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Re: About Profection

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post

My knowledge of profections is pretty bare bones, so maybe someone who uses them more can flesh it out, but... my understanding is that when you profect the ascendant, everything else in the chart moves houses. For example, I'm in an eighth house profection year right now. My eighth sign is Leo. I have the sun in Leo, but nothing else (so my sun is very active right now, by profection, but nothing else is, because the sun doesn't rule any other signs). I have Mercury and Venus in Virgo, which is my ninth sign (although all quadrant systems put them in my eighth house). By profection, though, they're in my second house (profection works with whole sign houses, even if you're using a quadrant system for everything else). My Libra MC, meanwhile, is in my third profected house.

However, with ascendant profection, only the house the ascendant is profected to, and the house its ruler is in if different, and the other house ruled by the time lord (unless the time lord is the sun or the moon), are activated. Since I don't have Virgo or Libra activated by profection right now, that doesn't mean much, in my understanding.

It's also possible to do profections using any planet or point. You could, for instance, profect the MC to the next sign when you're 1 year old (or 13, or 25), and rotate it around the chart. Or the sun. Or the moon. Or anything else. But that's separate from profecting the ascendant, and provides different information.
Oddity, a traditional astrologer
comments as follows
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post

Just note that a planet or planets in the profected sign will be the year rulers.
If you have nothing in Gemini and Gemini is the profected ascendant,

then Mercury is lord of the year.
If, however, Venus is in Gemini natally,
then Venus will be lady of the year, displacing Mercury.
And so forth.
AND
IN CONTRAST

petosiris responded to Oddity
by providing the following extensive clarification
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

''before all, it is necessary to investigate the lord of the year and its mixture and position and phase, and the planets that see it by fixity and by transit, and how it was situated at the nativity, and how it was found at the time of the transit.'' - Hephaistio of Thebes, Apotelesmatics Book II Schmidt translation p. 81

There is a bit of difference from author to author on how to use Annual Profections.
Everyone agrees that the ruler of the sign using the above mentioned diagram is ''Lord of the Year''.
What Oddity alludes to
is an approach in Valens
and some authors
of activated planets taking over the Lord of the Year in the given sign,
even transiting ones in Valens.
''If one of the stars in transit has entered this place, then it will be transmitting the chronocratorship.''

Dorotheus does not change Rulers, and combines annual profection with a solar revolution as a transiting chart to evaluate its strength over the year.
Note that Valens is somewhat innovating with Profections
as he walks every single thing in the chart
- all planets, places and lots.
Personally I do not like that approach at all.
I look at the planets in the activated signs as more powerful, but
not as Time Lords.
Also I do not profect anything but the Hour-Marker.
I've also noticed Lord of the Year transits
as well as transits over the whole year through the activated places as powerful as well.
Notice how all Hellenistic astrologers
suddenly start talking about transits when using profections.
This seems to originate from the founder of yearly and monthly profections
- King Nechepso who provided some delineations, quoted by Valens:

''The native obtains great advancement if the star of Jupiter, while being chronocrator, is at MC or in the Place of Accomplishment with the star of Mars. When Jupiter and Mars are providing the active impulse, it will be necessary to see if the star of Saturn is coming into a transit or opposition, with the result that the chronocratorship of occupations becomes contrary. If <Mercury> is favorably situated at the nativity, the native will engage in greater activities, proportionate to the distinction of the nativity - for this is changed to that and that is changed to this by differences in the hours of birth...'' - Valens Book VII p. 137 Riley

I think the reason Valens and others changed the original idea, is
that they started looking at profections as in terms of places,

while
I believe the original approach was to look at the Ruler of the Sign.
The technique originally was to establish the Lord of the Year,

not the house of the year.
Notice Nechepso's monthly profection:

''The King had this opinion about the operative month: determine the distance from the sunís current position to the moonís position at birth, then count that distance from the Ascendant. It will be necessary to examine the ruler of the sign where the count stops to see if it is in operative signs, and to make a judgement about the stars in conjunction or in aspect, whether benefic or malefic. (For day births, determine the distance from the moonís current position to the sunís position at birth; count that from the Ascendant'' - Valens, p. 97 Riley

It emphasizes the Ruler, not the place of the profection.
That is how I use profections.
In my opinion annual profections can be separated into two categories of Lord of the Year and Ruling Place approaches.
I believe Paulus follows Nechepso.
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Unread 01-21-2019, 03:22 AM
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Talking Re: About Profection

Thank you very much everyone for your contribution!
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Unread 01-22-2019, 12:39 PM
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Re: About Profection

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post

Thank you very much everyone for your contribution!
from a similar discussion there is also this comment
Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post

A comment on bithplace vs. place of residence for solar returns:

Many years, many trials...
Place of residence hands down


.
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Unread 01-24-2019, 06:22 PM
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Re: About Profection

An introduction to
the ancient Hellenistic time-lord technique called annual profections
The lecture begins by introducing the concept of time-lord techniques
before proceeding with a detailed treatment
of how to use the basic method of annual profections
in order to make yearly forecasts and predictions
starting from the day of a person's birthday or solar return.
This is the video version of episode 153 of The Astrology Podcast,
presented by Chris Brennan.
ANNUAL PROFECTIONS: A Basic Time-Lord Technique
Chris Brennan YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBwfIMnBKZk
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