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  #1  
Unread 01-20-2017, 04:29 AM
VonFinck VonFinck is offline
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Do you agree with this? (House Positions = Sign Placements)

This is how I see it:

Ex. A person has Aries Venus in the 12th house. They'll act like an Aries in a relationship but their romantic relationships may have 12th traits. (Secretive, Spiritual, Forbidden, Unavailable Partners)

Why? Because the sign would be how you experience the energy and the house would be where.

But I've seen a lot of people do this:

Ex. Venus In Pisces/12th House > Description, pretty much saying the 12th house and Pisces are the same.

I personally don't agree with this method but I'm still new to this and I could be wrong. Do you think it's acceptable to interpret it that way?

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  #2  
Unread 01-20-2017, 06:09 AM
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Re: Do you agree with this? (House Positions = Sign Placements)

There is a big problem in modern astrology, (which is the kind I practice,) of conflating signs and houses. You read these cookbooks that say something like "Venus in Aries or the first house. Ok, but then the Aries Venus is actually in the 12th house. You read further and find a description of "Venus in Pisces or the 12th house." Which is completely different. Venus in Aries is not like Venus in Pisces. The 12th house is not like the first house This gets pretty crazy-making.

I think a better approach is to consider that:

1. A sign says how or in what manner a planet operates.

2. A house says where or in what domain of life a planet operates.


So, if we've got Venus in Aries, we consider that Aries is the cardinal fire sign, ruled by Mars. Venus takes the initiative, and generally with some enthusiasm or action orientation. In a woman's chart, this might be the tomboy or feisty lady. In a heterosexual man's chart, the feisty lady suits him a whole lot better than Ms. Pink N. Fluffy. Venus also says something about our tastes, as she rules the arts.

The first house indicates one's body and outward personality. If we found Venus in Aries here, we'd expect an attractive (Venus) person, but one who was assertive (Mars ruled.)

But the 12th house is the "house of self-undoing," the house of people who are shut-in or sequestered in some way. Very different from the first house of one's body and personality. 12th house people tend to be fairly private. So if we move Venus here, we might get a woman who either prefers to be solo, or finds herself single, as both Aries and the 12th incline in that direction. In either sex, we might find someone who finds it tough to establish a relationship with a partner, because it is hard to put oneself out there.

Pisces is different yet again from Aries. The mutable water sign, ruled by Jupiter (traditional) and Neptune (modern) may prefer to daydream or meditate, with none of Aries' martial qualities.

I hope this makes sense. There are a few areas where signs and houses match up a lot better. I think Sagittarius and the 9th are one of the better match-ups, whereas Aries and the first house are about the worst. The rising sign is so important, and unless someone actually has Aries rising, their body and personality will probably be very different from Aries.
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Unread 01-20-2017, 04:36 PM
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astro-sentence, to VonFinck

VonFinck,

An even simpler way to think of it is as an "astro-sentence" where sign modifies planet focused on house. Using your example:

Aries modifies Venus focused on the 12th house
Action modifies Relationships/Values focused on Spirituality (12th house)

You get the picture of a take-charge person in relationships and personal values when it comes to their spirituality - their relationships and values take on a spiritual tone to them

Using your other example:
Venus modifies Pisces focused on the 12th house
Relationships/Values modifies Spirituality focused on Spirituality

You get the picture of a person who has relationships and values that have a strong awareness of spirituality

More about using "astro-sentences" in the link below this post.

Astro-sentencing,

Tim
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Last edited by wilsontc; 01-20-2017 at 04:46 PM.
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Unread 01-20-2017, 08:02 PM
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Re: astro-sentence, to VonFinck

Tim, I totally agree with the concept of an astrological grammar, although I might read the 12th house a little differently.

I wrote:

Quote:
1. A sign says how or in what manner a planet operates.

2. A house says where or in what domain of life a planet operates.
Accordingly, a planet operates like the noun or subject of a sentence.

A sign operates like an adverb or adjective, modifying the noun.

A house operates like a prepositional phrase, such as: "in my marriage" (7th house,) or "with my friends" (11th house.)

The 12th house can be very spiritual, but more in the sense of solo mysticism, or in Vedic astrology, the release of one's attachments as the prerequisite for obtaining enlightenment. It is a good fit for a nun in a convent, where it has that sense of being confined. The 9th house deals with conventional religion, as in a Catholic attending mass.

Not everyone picks up on the spiritual dimensions of the 12th house: my daughter has a 12th house sun-Mercury and she is not a spiritual person. A number of political leaders have 12th house suns, which I think comes from their identifying with a cause or constituency greater than themselves.

With the 12th house Venus in Aries example, I think something like yoga would be a good use, because it would pick up on sign-ruler Mars and its athleticism, while creating the opportunity for a spiritual practice. Ideally, Venus in this house could thereby open up to some of Venus's rulerships, like feelings of peace and love.

The 12th house rules people who are shut-in in some way or otherwise misfortunate, so an alternative use of that Aries Venus might be working in a VA hospital (Mars rules soldiers, hospitals are places of confinement.)

But to give an example of an astrological sentence using a 12th house Aries Venus:

"I get enjoyment (Venus) from doing challenging (Aries) yoga exercises alone in my room (12th house) every morning."

Does a planet modify the sign, or does the sign modify the planet?
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  #5  
Unread 01-20-2017, 08:54 PM
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Re: Do you agree with this? (House Positions = Sign Placements)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VonFinck View Post

This is how I see it:

Ex. A person has Aries Venus in the 12th house. They'll act like an Aries in a relationship but their romantic relationships may have 12th traits. (Secretive, Spiritual, Forbidden, Unavailable Partners)

Why?
Because the sign would be how you experience the energy and the house would be where.

Well said


A PLANET acts

A HOUSE shows the area of life
in which the planet acts


as well as
how strongly the planet can act

the quality of the planet's expression
is influenced by the SIGN location of the PLANET





Quote:
Originally Posted by VonFinck View Post

But I've seen a lot of people do this:

Ex. Venus In Pisces/12th House > Description, pretty much saying the 12th house and Pisces are the same.

I personally don't agree with this method
but I'm still new to this
and I could be wrong.
Do you think it's acceptable to interpret it that way?

Each astrologer has their own individual opinion regarding methodology
so it is individual choice regarding choice of method
you are not necessarily 'wrong'
- some astrologers would agree with you
others would disagree
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Unread 01-22-2017, 10:16 PM
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sign modifies planet, to waybread

waybread,

You asked:
Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
"I get enjoyment (Venus) from doing challenging (Aries) yoga exercises alone in my room (12th house) every morning."

Does a planet modify the sign, or does the sign modify the planet?
I think of it as sign modifies planet. To me prepositional phrases are too "messy" (must be a Virgo thing). So you get "challenging enjoyment" focused on spirituality/ aloneness (using your alternative word suggestion). I like to use "spirituality" simply because it seems to me as one of the best ways to use Pisces/Neptune/12th house. As you say, more frequently this is used for deception/aloneness/addictions/escapism/etc.

Astro-simply,

Tim
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  #7  
Unread 01-22-2017, 11:39 PM
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Re: Do you agree with this? (House Positions = Sign Placements)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VonFinck

But I've seen a lot of people do this:

Ex. Venus In Pisces/12th House > Description, pretty much saying the 12th house and Pisces are the same.

I personally don't agree with this method
but I'm still new to this
and I could be wrong.
Do you think it's acceptable to interpret it that way?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
[COLOR=NavyEach astrologer has their own individual opinion regarding methodology
so it is individual choice regarding choice of method
you are not necessarily 'wrong'
- some astrologers would agree with you
others would disagree
JUPITERASC. You are surely not saying that you would not disagree with astrologers who follow the idea that a sign has the same meaning as its natural house???

If that is so, does that mean that I lose all worldly consciousness in my Pisces on 7th house cusp marriage, that my married life revolves around hospitals, ashrams, rehab. centres, and the like, and that I shall be assured of a place in the great wide Cosmos with all my ancestors through the circumstances of my marriage....or after it???

I wonder where my 3rd house under influence of Scorpio will lead me.

No;..... surely not?????.
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  #8  
Unread 01-23-2017, 12:54 AM
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Re: Do you agree with this? (House Positions = Sign Placements)

Hi,

You may want to remember a simple formula.

The planet = What we do or action (verb)

The sign = How or the quality (adverb)

The house = Where or which area of life we do it in

Venus (what = I love) in Aries (how = passionately) in the 5th house (where = hobbies and pleasure, e.g. music).

Since the sign provides the energy, it colours the planet with its own energy for the planet to perform its function (Venus = love or value, the Sun = focus, the Moon = to feel and to nurture, etc.) in a particular area of life or the house it is placed in.
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Unread 02-18-2017, 10:12 PM
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Re: Do you agree with this? (House Positions = Sign Placements)

If we look at people with Venus or Sun in 12, we see a lot of expressive power.
The 12th house is rather our reserves, our most personal gifts. We withdraw into that house because of our rich inner world. Nothing to do with forced seclusion.
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  #10  
Unread 02-19-2017, 12:15 AM
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Re: Do you agree with this? (House Positions = Sign Placements)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisiangal View Post

JUPITERASC. You are surely not saying
that you would not disagree with astrologers
who follow the idea that a sign has the same meaning as its natural house???

If that is so, does that mean that I lose all worldly consciousness in my Pisces on 7th house cusp marriage,
that my married life revolves around hospitals, ashrams, rehab. centres, and the like,
and that I shall be assured of a place in the great wide Cosmos with all my ancestors through the circumstances of my marriage
....or after it???

I wonder where my 3rd house under influence of Scorpio will lead me.

No;..... surely not?????.
There are more than thirty house systems
with just fourteen of the more popular available as options on astro.com
as well as multiple astrological methodologies such as
Sidereal, Tropical, Chinese, Vedic to name just a few
and so
Surely you are not disagreeing that each astrologer has their own individual opinion and methodology
because it is obvious that astrologers do all have their own methodological preferences
to which all astrologers are entitled


so clearly it is individual choice regarding choice of method
- some astrologers would agree with that choice
others would disagree with that choice

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  #11  
Unread 02-19-2017, 12:28 AM
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Re: Do you agree with this? (House Positions = Sign Placements)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VonFinck View Post

This is how I see it:

Ex. A person has Aries Venus in the 12th house.
They'll act like an Aries in a relationship
but their romantic relationships may have 12th traits.
(Secretive, Spiritual, Forbidden, Unavailable Partners)


Why? Because the sign would be how you experience the energy and the house would be where.

But I've seen a lot of people do this:

Ex. Venus In Pisces/12th House > Description,
pretty much saying the 12th house and Pisces are the same.


I personally don't agree with this method
but I'm still new to this and I could be wrong.
Do you think it's acceptable to interpret it that way?
To be clear then using the analogy of a 'performance' or 'play'

we have

12 basic 'backdrops' to the theatre or movie of a natal chart
Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces





Each of those 12 'backdrops'
- dependent on time of birth -

is pinned as an individual 'background or cusp'
on each of the 12 basic 'scenes' aka 'houses'






1. Birth/Self/Appearance/Vitality/Strength


2. Resources, material comforts, earnings
and all issues concerning wealth or of a financial nature
including the manner of attaining wealth, personal goods and belongings,
assets, income, gain, money lent to others, profit (or loss when afflicted),
support and assistance from others. http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h2.html


3 Brothers and sisters, cousins or general members of the family
(not parents, they belong to the 4th scene aka house).
Neighbors and local neighborhood. The environment in which we live and work.
Short journeys or those made on a regular basis.
Letters, rumors, reports, messages and messengers.
Communications generally. Newspapers, magazines, telephones, postal service.
Written deeds and contracts. Speeches and debates.
Our ability to express ourselves and communicate to others.
Languages, mobility skills and self-expression http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h3.html


and so on..........



each 'scene' aka 'house'
features
planets as 'actors' 'performing'
with different 'backdrops' of the 12 'signs' dependent on time of birth
within any one of the 12 basic 'scenes' or 'houses'


SAME PLANET MAY PLAY DIFFERENT ROLES
Venus and Jupiter are in general thought of as the 'good guys'
Mars and Saturn are traditionally the 'villains'
Mercury can be the 'dodgy' sometimes good
sometimes not so good
dependent on the company Mercury keeps via conjunction, phase and aspect


Scenes often 'merge'
as planets in each others domiciles
influence the 'script'



keep in mind also our "travelling players"
aka transiting planets
putting in temporary appearances
transiting MOON is "on the scene" for approximately only 2.5 days
before travelling on to the next venue
MERCURY puts in an appearance "for one week only" then on to the next scene
after nineteen days
VENUS goes to the next stage
SUN sticks around for a month
MARS fifty-seven days
JUPITER a year
SATURN two and a half years
adding layers to the drama
an analysis may be as complex or as basic as one prefers





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Unread 02-19-2017, 12:33 AM
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Re: Do you agree with this? (House Positions = Sign Placements)

In actual astrology

Sign =/ House
Planet =/ House
Sign =/ Planet

Aries for example, is a sign that also has solar qualities such as enthusiasm, creativity, etc. That's why the Sun has also dignity in Aries. An Aries isn't the Mars energy personified in a sign. Aries is seen traditionally as a good sign, while Mars is a malefic planet. In what part in the description of the sign of Aries have you ever read in a decent astrology source that Aries modifies the personality (1st house) of the person? Never.


People also commit other mistakes such as

Sun in Virgo in 5th house = You have a Virgo Sun with Leo-qualities

This is not true. At all. It's plain stupid to think so.

People also do stuff like: Mars is in the 7th house. Libra=7th house so Mars is in damaged since Libra is the detriment of Mars, therefore Mars is damaged in the 7th house. No, no, no, no.

If you want to see what the favorite house of a planet see then check planetary joys

Which would be

Mars - 6th house
Venus - 5th house
Moon - 3rd house
Mercury - 1st house
Saturn - 12th house
Jupiter - 11th house
Sun - 9th house
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Unread 02-19-2017, 01:05 AM
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Re: Do you agree with this? (House Positions = Sign Placements)

Quote:
Originally Posted by obsidianmineral View Post

In actual astrology

Sign =/ House
Planet =/ House
Sign =/ Planet

Aries for example, is a sign that also has solar qualities such as enthusiasm, creativity, etc.
That's why the Sun has also dignity in Aries.
An Aries isn't the Mars energy personified in a sign.
Aries is seen traditionally as a good sign, while Mars is a malefic planet.
In what part in the description of the sign of Aries have you ever read in a decent astrology source
that Aries modifies the personality (1st house) of the person? Never.
Many have Aries 1st House yet are not all identical personalities

because

the quality of the planet's expression
is influenced by the SIGN location of the PLANET
and clearly

MARS ruler of ARIES may be placed in any of twelve signs
and
MARS ruler of ARIES may be placed in any of twelve houses
obviously
that makes the difference

Quote:
Originally Posted by obsidianmineral View Post

People also commit other mistakes such as

Sun in Virgo in 5th house = You have a Virgo Sun with Leo-qualities

This is not true. At all. It's plain stupid to think so.

People also do stuff like:
Mars is in the 7th house.
Libra=7th house so Mars is in damaged since Libra is the detriment of Mars, therefore Mars is damaged in the 7th house.
No, no, no, no.

If you want to see what the favorite house of a planet
see then check planetary joys

Which would be

Mars - 6th house
Venus - 5th house
Moon - 3rd house
Mercury - 1st house
Saturn - 12th house
Jupiter - 11th house
Sun - 9th house
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary1e.html
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Last edited by JUPITERASC; 02-19-2017 at 11:22 AM.
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Unread 02-19-2017, 02:30 AM
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Re: Do you agree with this? (House Positions = Sign Placements)

The most ancient planetary joys (Manilius 14 CE), some of which were switched by the mid 2nd cnetury, were:

1st house = Mercury
3rd house = Moon
4th house = Saturn
6th house = Mars
9th house = Sun
10th house = Venus
11th house = Jupiter

Traditional astrologers (from the 3rd century to the present) use the planetary joys as given above by JA (Saturn switched to the 12th house, Venus switched to the 5th house) I, however, have continued to use the "original" (historically oldest) planetary joys as given in Manilius (NOT because they are the oldest, but because they make sense to me, and seem to work-when looking at dignities-quite well)
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Unread 02-20-2017, 09:47 PM
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Re: Do you agree with this? (House Positions = Sign Placements)

I agree with the thread maker's outlook almost completely. I just see the signs to be the characteristics, while the planets are the resources the signs draw archetypes from in order to develop characteristics, and the houses exist because we are all bound to experience the entirety of the Zodiac throughout our destined experiences (the Houses). Our Zodiac signs and planets, or lack thereof, give us special qualities and make us unique.

I believe we all experience the Zodiac through the Houses, and the houses do represent the Zodiac signs. I'm kind of tired of people saying they're not correlated, and some saying they're overtly the same: they're expanded versions of the Zodiac sign.

If you have Aries in the 12th house, you will take on an Aries approach when dealing with relationships, and the 12th house will create a secretive exterior surrounding love due to the level of deep seated insecurity imbedded within the 12th house, as nothing is certain in this house (love itself is a vague thing which means it meshes well with the 12th house)

Others may disagree but I think the first post is pretty well perfect.
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Unread 02-21-2017, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VonFinck View Post
This is how I see it:

Ex. A person has Aries Venus in the 12th house. They'll act like an Aries in a relationship but their romantic relationships may have 12th traits. (Secretive, Spiritual, Forbidden, Unavailable Partners)

Why? Because the sign would be how you experience the energy and the house would be where.

But I've seen a lot of people do this:

Ex. Venus In Pisces/12th House > Description, pretty much saying the 12th house and Pisces are the same.

I personally don't agree with this method but I'm still new to this and I could be wrong. Do you think it's acceptable to interpret it that way?
I found an article that uses this method.
Heres the article http://realitysandwich.com/148225/mars_neptune_orgasm_addiction_sharing_sexual_energ ies/
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Unread 02-21-2017, 04:53 AM
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Re: Do you agree with this? (House Positions = Sign Placements)

Just wanna add my incentive.. :3

As we've all heard a million times, a planet in a sign determines how it expresses itself and a planet in a house determines where it expresses itself yada yada..

I kind of feel like the houses tell us what their complementary sign would be doing if they were on earth.

So like, if you put a full-fledged capricorn on earth what would that energy as a tangible entity be doing?? Well, the cappy would be doing activities related to the 10th house. 10th house is our life's work, reputation, and all that jazz. Capricorns work hard and want to make something of themselves; it only makes sense that they would want to pursue 10th house endevours.

So... for example, for my chart, I have Leo Sun in the 7th house. I'm a Leo doing Libra activities. So having my Sun in the 7th house seems very similar to a Libra because I'm doing Libra activities, BUT quite different because of the fact that I'm a Leo. I put my Leo energy into my relationships, or on this tangible plane called earth, my inner soul sun expression comes out most in the 7th house (relationships, marriage, contracts). Which again, makes me appear Libra, but not really.

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Unread 02-22-2017, 02:20 AM
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Re: Do you agree with this? (House Positions = Sign Placements)

Okay so Muchaco posted this on my 9th house or 8th house moon thread...

Quote:
9th house Moon shows emotions openly and needs to go out and explore the world. A rather happy-go-lucky position, more interested in variety of experiences than quality of experience. 8th house Moon doesn't show emotions openly and needs a lot of time alone. A rather serious and no-nonsense position, more interested in quality (or depth) of experience than variety of experience.
His description literally sounds like what the moon would be in the signs.

I think we can all agree that the houses and signs can be used interchangeably on a superficial level.

Obviously if you dig deeper when reading someone's chart, the houses and signs are separate, but from a bird's eye view, they are pretty much the same.
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Unread 02-23-2017, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VonFinck View Post
This is how I see it:

Ex. A person has Aries Venus in the 12th house. They'll act like an Aries in a relationship but their romantic relationships may have 12th traits. (Secretive, Spiritual, Forbidden, Unavailable Partners)

Why? Because the sign would be how you experience the energy and the house would be where.

But I've seen a lot of people do this:

Ex. Venus In Pisces/12th House > Description, pretty much saying the 12th house and Pisces are the same.

I personally don't agree with this method but I'm still new to this and I could be wrong. Do you think it's acceptable to interpret it that way?
I think you have to blend the house with the planet. Mars in Aries in the 1st house is different than Mars in LEO the 1st house, but it still is impulsive and independent, the expression is different because its Aries and Leo. Aries cardinal are headstrong, takes initiative. Leo fixed is dramatic and stubborn. And its in the 1H so its in the house of the self. Venus in Aries is still Arian but its in the 12H so the expression is different than an Aries in the 1H.

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Unread 02-24-2017, 12:10 AM
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Re: Do you agree with this? (House Positions = Sign Placements)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cupid Arrow View Post

I think you have to blend the house with the planet.

Mars in Aries in the 1st house
is different than Mars in the 1st house,


but it still is impulsive and independent,
the expression is different because its Aries and Leo.
Aries cardinal are headstrong, takes initiative.
Leo fixed is dramatic and stubborn.
And its in the 1H so its in the house of the self.


Venus in Aries is still Arian
but its in the 12H
so the expression is different
than an Aries in the 1H.

tsmall illustrates the concept well
with her own chart
as follows
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post


That is going to depend on what you mean by "more 12 house."

Best example I can give is my own chart.
I have a 12th house Sun at 2* Libra,
with the ASC at 14* Libra.
Make no mistake, it's a 12th house Sun,
but that it can actually "see" the ASC means that
...well, the nature of the Sun is to select,
and wanting to be in the 1st because you can see it taste it,
almost touch it, yet stuck behind the glass in the 12th
speaks differently than a Virgo Sun with Libra rising.

So if a planet in the 12th is described as being "behind the scenes,"
but a planet is in the 12th but the same sign as the ascendant,
its more like stuck behind the scenes
when you really want to be center stage.

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Unread 04-08-2017, 01:19 AM
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Smile Re: sign modifies planet, to waybread

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsontc View Post
waybread,

You asked:


I think of it as sign modifies planet. To me prepositional phrases are too "messy" (must be a Virgo thing). So you get "challenging enjoyment" focused on spirituality/ aloneness (using your alternative word suggestion). I like to use "spirituality" simply because it seems to me as one of the best ways to use Pisces/Neptune/12th house. As you say, more frequently this is used for deception/aloneness/addictions/escapism/etc.

Astro-simply,

Tim
As a serious 12th House native, I experience it as pure Imagination. Anything goes, unless you establish some "forbidden zones". I feel fortunate not to have Saturn getting his jollies in my 12th. In Placidus, I have Merc Conj. Mars in Pisces, and Moon Conj Venus in Aquarius, all in H12. Whole-sign, with a Pisces Asc, Merc/Mars is in H1. The Merc/Mars Conjuction is at the tip of a Neptune in Libra, Pluto in Leo, Yod. That's probably why I had to take the Whole-sign "Life-path"--couldn't deal with THAT in H12!
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Unread 04-08-2017, 10:12 AM
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Smile Re: Do you agree with this? (House Positions = Sign Placements)

Quote:
Originally Posted by moonris3 View Post
Unfortunately it's true, if you have Venus in 12th house it'll take pisces-like features. And if you have the Sun in 8th it'll have Scorpionic features, as if you have your Asc in Cancer you'll have Cancerian features... nothing new.

The houses are not just "where", just like the signs are not just "how" and the planets are not just "what". There are many other questions such as "when" and "who" and "why" especially, then, to answer those, we have to extend all the symbols, it must be a real dialogue between all the objects, as usual.

Because we know it, there are Leos that will look like Pisces and Virgos that will display their emotions like Cancers... no one's the same. And all these particular "how", "when", and "where" are just there to be interpreted.
As I see it, the Signs transfer their qualities more THOROUGHLY to Sun, Moon and Planets when a Sign they're in is in a House that matches up with a Sign of the same Element. For example, Moon in Aquarius would be most detached in Air-sign Houses, 3, 7, and 11. Moon in Pisces would be most emotional in Water-sign Houses 4, 8, and 12. Reverse that, with Water-signs in Air-sign Houses and Air-signs in Water-sign Houses, and those qualities would be less pronounced. So, Moon in Pisces in H4, for example, is a STRONG example of Moon in Pisces, but NOT the equivalent of a Cancerian Moon. Of course, Moon in Pisces would be most effective in H12, since Pisces "owns" that House. The Water-sign Houses are the safest and most effective for expressing emotions, for example. Fire-sign Houses are the safest and most effective for "bringing on the power" through placements in Fire-signs. Etc.

Last edited by david starling; 04-08-2017 at 10:55 AM.
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Unread 04-08-2017, 12:55 PM
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Re: Do you agree with this? (House Positions = Sign Placements)

I think its important to bring up the issue of where you start looking at the horoscope as a totality. The different houses represents the different areas of life and the signs on their cusps connected to their rulers and their aspects in combination with planets within those houses and their aspects should tell you about the way we adress these areas. Twelfth house for example is how we bring service to humanity, so mercury or venus within this house should from my observations lead to venus and mercury related services brought to humanity, NOT issues related to personal relationships as this is covered by the seventh house domain.


Y

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Unread 04-08-2017, 11:21 PM
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Re: Do you agree with this? (House Positions = Sign Placements)

Quote:
Originally Posted by moonris3 View Post
Unfortunately it's true, if you have Venus in 12th house it'll take pisces-like features. And if you have the Sun in 8th it'll have Scorpionic features, as if you have your Asc in Cancer you'll have Cancerian features... nothing new.

The houses are not just "where", just like the signs are not just "how" and the planets are not just "what". There are many other questions such as "when" and "who" and "why" especially, then, to answer those, we have to extend all the symbols, it must be a real dialogue between all the objects, as usual.

Because we know it, there are Leos that will look like Pisces and Virgos that will display their emotions like Cancers... no one's the same. And all these particular "how", "when", and "where" are just there to be interpreted.
With all due respect, I don't think a 12th house Venus in Aquarius or Capricorn is going to take on "Pisces features" unless there is an aspect from Neptune or a planet in Pisces. Traditionally, the only overlap between signs and houses was in medical astrology, where the 12th house and Pisces both relate to the feet. (Aries and the first house are the head, and you work your way down from there.)

I consider myself to be a modern astrologer, but the more I get involved with it (now going on 27 years) the more I think that the conflation of signs and houses just muddies everything.

You also have to distinguish between the rising sign and the sun sign, so far as physical appearance is concerned. Not to mention the role of heredity.
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Unread 04-09-2017, 06:38 AM
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Re: Do you agree with this? (House Positions = Sign Placements)

moonrise, I appreciate the thought you put into your post, but I would approach a horoscope differently.

As I said above, some planet-sign-house matches are better than others. I think the 9th house is a pretty good match, but the first house is a terrible match unless you happen to have Aries rising or Mars in the first house.

Then we can break it down further. The moon and 4th house overlap as sharing the meaning of one's home. But the moon further means one's emotional nature and one's experience of Mom. Traditionally the 4th house is the father, not the mother, in the sense of one's patrimony: even today most children take their surname from their father if he is married to Mom or to be part of the child's life. The 4th indicates real estate and "the end of the matter" in a difficult question. In psychological astrology the 4th is one's early childhood conditioning. If we have someone with the moon in Leo in the 11th house and Capricorn on the cusp of an untenanted 4th house, with Saturn in the 8th, the moon and the 4th house are going to be telling us very different things.

In "my" astrology, a sign shows how or in what manner a planet operates.

A house shows where or in what domain of life a planet operates.

These are not the same thing, and we only confuse matters by assuming that a planet "in Aquarius or in the 11th house" mean the same thing. You might get Leo in the 11th which isn't like Aquarius at all, or Aquarius in the 12th which isn't at all like the 11th house.

Also, I work with house cusp rulers, so they flavour the signs and houses considerably.

To a limited extent, we can see the 7th house as representing "other people" in some kinds of questions, but that is typically too general. "Other people" might be one's friends (11th house,) support staff (6th house,) or supervisor (10th house.) Specifically the 7th rules marriage and other long-term partnerships, and is also the house of open enemies.

I would rather see Libra as the Venus-ruled cardinal air sign. We need to see its approach to life as primarily mental, with its relationship dimension conferred by Venus, not by some static personality traits associated with the sign in popular astrology books. To see how a sun-Libra relates, we want to look at the situation of Venus, and perhaps Mercury if Virgo is the sign on the sun's house cusp.

Further, we could see a relationship between Mercury, Gemini, and the third house as ruling communication. But the third house also rules one's siblings and short-distance travel. If someone has Taurus, the fixed earth sign, prominent in the third house, that's not like Gemini (the mutable air sign) at all.

I could go on in this fashion, but essentially the chart gives specific information that is easily muddied by assuming a major sign-house overlap in meaning.
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