Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > Anything Else... > Chat

Chat For posts that don't have to do with astrological chart interpretation, but they're still important to you. Gossip, show off, hot topic, spiritual thoughts, Sun sign astrological discussions, chit chat: come in and share!


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 08-28-2013, 11:16 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 51,178
If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

JMO this interesting thread http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=66767 shows the necessity to define what is meant by the idea of 'Free Will'

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread 08-28-2013, 11:53 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 51,178
Re: If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

To begin with, here is a random online dictionary definition

Free Will

Noun

The power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate

the ability to act at one's own discretion.
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 08-29-2013, 12:39 AM
Shadowflash's Avatar
Shadowflash Shadowflash is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 156
Re: If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

Hey there, JUPITERASC...

Best analogy I've ever come across illustrates the crucial differentiation between what is decided at a soul level, prior to incarnation, and the free-will choices available to us as that incarnate human being.

Our soul chooses (that which has often been called fate, destiny, etc.) the vehicle (body, aspects of psychoemotional persona) and the various "roads" (life circumstances) we will traverse, as well as the path-crossings with other incarnate human beings within them... Then it is *our choice,* always, how fast or slow to go upon those roads, whether we *at least appear to* turn off them altogether or stay on them and, of course, what we say, do and enact within the relationships we engage upon them.

Make any sense?

Brings to mind an old story I once heard that, I'm sure, is meant to convey the all-encompassing bottom line of soul-level choice. A devotee approaches his guru to complain that he's overheard another devotee claiming that the guru told him his entire karma (or destiny, or the predicament of having pre-set roads to travel upon, so to speak) has been entirely absolved. The first devotee says, "But, guru, how can this be? You've often told us that one's karma or destiny cannot possibly be avoided?!" The guru smiles and says, "If this devotee's karma has been absolved, it can only be that it was his chosen destiny..." (soulgrowth plan)..."that his karma be absolved in this way. No other possibility exists."

My understanding of this whole thing is that one's natal chart describes the "vehicle"...(the body, the psychoemotional makeup)....that's been chosen for this life, and that all predictive angles of astrology -- transits, solar arcs, progressions -- highlight the current life-circumstance atmosphere and potential realms of *choice* offered each of us as we travel these "roads" and "path crossings" of relationship...
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Shadowflash For This Useful Post:
astrokat (08-31-2013), Cap (10-19-2013)
  #4  
Unread 08-29-2013, 12:45 AM
Shadowflash's Avatar
Shadowflash Shadowflash is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 156
Re: If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

Woops; sorry, finger/brain connections not entirely in sync at the moment... I should also clarify my belief/understanding that all predictive angles of astrology not only "highlight the current life-circumstance atmosphere and potential realms of *choice* offered each of us as we travel these "roads" and "path crossings" of relationship..." as I said above -- but also, and perhaps more importantly, reveal the *As Within/So Without* timing of our chosen soulgrowth issues outpicturing into what we experience as our 3D life experiences....

Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Shadowflash For This Useful Post:
astrokat (08-31-2013), Cap (10-19-2013)
  #5  
Unread 08-29-2013, 01:31 AM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 51,178
Re: If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowflash View Post
Hey there, JUPITERASC....
Hey Shadowflash
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowflash View Post
Best analogy I've ever come across illustrates the crucial differentiation between what is decided at a soul level, prior to incarnation, and the free-will choices available to us as that incarnate human being

Our soul chooses (that which has often been called fate, destiny, etc.) the vehicle (body, aspects of psychoemotional persona) and the various "roads" (life circumstances) we will traverse, as well as the path-crossings with other incarnate human beings within them... Then it is *our choice,* always, how fast or slow to go upon those roads, whether we *at least appear to* turn off them altogether or stay on them and, of course, what we say, do and enact within the relationships we engage upon them.

Make any sense? .
Vaguely. The phrase 'prior to incarnation' infers some form of nebulous existence

- obviously then a rhetorical question arises regarding the origin of 'the soul aka the self'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowflash View Post
Brings to mind an old story I once heard that, I'm sure, is meant to convey the all-encompassing bottom line of soul-level choice. A devotee approaches his guru to complain that he's overheard another devotee claiming that the guru told him his entire karma (or destiny, or the predicament of having pre-set roads to travel upon, so to speak) has been entirely absolved. The first devotee says, "But, guru, how can this be? You've often told us that one's karma or destiny cannot possibly be avoided?!" The guru smiles and says, "If this devotee's karma has been absolved, it can only be that it was his chosen destiny..." (soulgrowth plan)..."that his karma be absolved in this way. No other possibility exists."
That's a fun and useful story

So 'soulgrowth plan' = karma
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowflash View Post
My understanding of this whole thing is that one's natal chart describes the "vehicle"...(the body, the psychoemotional makeup)....that's been chosen for this life, and that all predictive angles of astrology -- transits, solar arcs, progressions -- highlight the current life-circumstance atmosphere and potential realms of *choice* offered each of us as we travel these "roads" and "path crossings" of relationship...
Some say a natal chart is a continuum describing 'past events' as well as 'present vehicle' and 'future events'
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to JUPITERASC For This Useful Post:
astrokat (08-31-2013), Cap (10-19-2013), serafin5 (09-01-2013)
  #6  
Unread 08-29-2013, 01:56 AM
BobZemco's Avatar
BobZemco BobZemco is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: On a web-site far, far away...
Posts: 2,137
Re: If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowflash View Post
Our soul chooses...
Souls do not exist. Nothing unreal exists. Anything real has mass and takes up space. A discussion on Free Will should focus on what is objective, and what can be quantified and qualified objectively, and not esoteric subjectivity.
__________________
Addressing his pupil, Satyacharya said, "The science of Astrology is a great secret. It should be guarded with care. This sacred science of Astrology should never be taught to bad people. Nor should it be revealed to too many people and very frequently. It should be taught only to a few chosen disciples who really deserve and have the necessary qualifications."
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 08-29-2013, 02:10 AM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 51,178
Re: If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post
Souls do not exist. Nothing unreal exists.
Anything real has mass and takes up space.
Space itself is then either 'composed of mass' and/or 'a form of mass' - otherwise space is 'not real'
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post
A discussion on Free Will should focus on what is objective, and what can be quantified and qualified objectively, and not esoteric subjectivity.
Such a discussion could well focus on what is objective
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JUPITERASC For This Useful Post:
BobZemco (08-29-2013)
  #8  
Unread 08-29-2013, 02:31 AM
poyi's Avatar
poyi poyi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,015
Re: If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

Well as a student of astrology...

Definitely the Wheel, our fate can be assessed by moving forward and backward and you can spine as many times as you wanted to play with it.

I only wish incarnation can be proven truth then we might find out if we did choose to be born this way.

I did have vivid dream of talking to God saying that in this life, I would like to learn how to be a woman, as wife and as mother. I had the dream when I was in primary school.

The Wheel of Fortune Card in Tarot some time being thought of as a Sewing Wheel. It symbolizes that human life as a thread to be sew and to be created but through the machine. This card itself is very Fateful and one has no control of the wheel due to the external factors those 3 women do the sewing and one MUST go through all stages of the wheel. We see that the wheel is inside a deep dark cave, appearing to be under the ground, isolated, three sadden faces women doing the sewing in the dark. Notice the background, we still see hope and grassland that represents life and freedom. But the widow is small and the wheel of life is separated from that freedom.

sewingfortune.jpg

This is another version of the Wheel of Fortune. The wheel rotates up and down, as a whole to learn the full story of life to fulfill the utmost spiritual journey, one must go through the High, Middle and Low life. This is for the utmost benefit for the soul to go through all stages. While in this card, we see no external forces but still the restriction of the Wheel is still there. The background is a very clear, hopeful sky, openly, united and above the world. There is a high purpose showed in this card. An Angel she is completed with glory. Her eyes are blinded by a thread not seeing through the physical eyes, holding two golden cups, her wings golden in color with glory, her gown in red and green with life.

wheeloffortune.jpg

As a whole the high, middle and low life is all You as one. The highest realization to me is to realize that the suffering in others, you are also going through the sufferings at the same time. There is no differences between people. As a whole we are one organism, to survive we must relay on each other. We can choose to go through this Wheel of life in the cave or above the world.
__________________
“I believe there is something of the divine mystery in everything that exists. We can see it sparkle in a sunflower or a poppy. We sense more of the unfathomable mystery in a butterfly that flutters from a twig--or in a goldfish swimming in a bowl. But we are closest to God in our own soul. Only there can we become one with the greatest mystery of life. In truth, at very rare moments we can experience that we ourselves are that divine mystery.” --Jostein Gaarder, Sophie's World
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 08-29-2013, 02:47 AM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 51,178
Re: If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

Nothing unreal

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to JUPITERASC For This Useful Post:
astrokat (08-31-2013), Culpeper (11-17-2013), serafin5 (09-01-2013)
  #10  
Unread 08-29-2013, 02:57 AM
poyi's Avatar
poyi poyi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,015
Re: If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

My favorite book, The Little Prince, the best book for the child at heart. For those are interested can download the full version. The entire book explains why the child sees better than the adult who prefers facts, and why human suffers the way they suffering and lost their internal peace.

"Once when I was six years old I saw a magnificent picture in a book, called
True Stories from Nature, about the primeval forest. It was a picture of a boa
constrictor in the act of swallowing an animal. Here is a copy of the drawing.
In the book it said: “Boa constrictors swallow their prey whole, without
chewing it. After that they are not able to move, and they sleep through the
six months that they need for digestion.”
I pondered deeply, then, over the adventures of the jungle. And after some
work with a colored pencil I succeeded in making my first drawing. My Drawing
Number One. It looked like this:
I showed my masterpiece to the grown-ups, and asked them whether the
drawing frightened them.
But they answered: “Frighten? Why should any one be frightened by a
hat?”
My drawing was not a picture of a hat. It was a picture of a boa constrictor
digesting an elephant. But since the grown-ups were not able to understand it,
I made another drawing: I drew the inside of the boa constrictor, so that the
grown-ups could see it clearly. They always need to have things explained. My
Drawing Number Two looked like this....."

Here is the full PDF for download
http://cs.swan.ac.uk/~cswill/The_little_prince.pdf
__________________
“I believe there is something of the divine mystery in everything that exists. We can see it sparkle in a sunflower or a poppy. We sense more of the unfathomable mystery in a butterfly that flutters from a twig--or in a goldfish swimming in a bowl. But we are closest to God in our own soul. Only there can we become one with the greatest mystery of life. In truth, at very rare moments we can experience that we ourselves are that divine mystery.” --Jostein Gaarder, Sophie's World
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to poyi For This Useful Post:
Cap (10-19-2013), serafin5 (09-01-2013)
  #11  
Unread 08-29-2013, 02:57 AM
Cancer7 Cancer7 is offline
Account Closed
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 386
Re: If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

Many believe horary and natal astrology is powerful, so is free will.
I recently moved. When i became interested in this property, i casted a horary chart asking if I would get the house. I received many answers indicating "no". I was told I wouldnt like the property and or the landlord after viewing the home. When i viewed the home, I loved it!!! There was a delay with the approval, and i actually thought i would be denied based on the horary answers I received. I knew this home was perfect for me, and i had to have it. The price, location, and layout was what i needed. I was consistent with following up with the realtor, and i prayed!!!! Although horary said no, a higher power and my free will to continue showing interest in the property led to a approval!!!! I've been living here nearly two weeks now.

I also asked questions about conceiving a child this year, I dont recall the answers i received in horary. However, when i consider free will, if i want to conceive a baby this year, just have unprotected sex and the deed is done!!!

As far as natal charts. I dont know if marriage is indicated in my natal, Ive been told yes and no. In 2011, I was due to marry a guy that i had been dating since fall/winter 2010. He was thrilled. I was the best thing that ever happened to him, however, Id had better men in my life. He was a great guy, but ive had better and felt like id be settling. I exercised my free will, and called off the marriage!!!! I havent dated or had sex since 2011. However, i just entered into a dating relationship this month.

There are men that are dating for marriage. I want to marry, I would hope to encounter one of those men, or simply make my request known to the man I'm dating, and pray marriage occurs.

I believe horary and natal provides insite on certain topics, but I dont think it's GOSPEL (sound truth). Ive seen many, many, many readers disagree with one anothers readers. Horary causes confusion!

YOU have to ACT if you want ACTION!!!

YES I BELIEVE IN FREE WILL, AND IT IS INDEED POWERFUL!!!!!

Last edited by Cancer7; 08-29-2013 at 03:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread 08-29-2013, 03:23 AM
Cancer7 Cancer7 is offline
Account Closed
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 386
Re: If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

Another thing I've observed on this site is, individuals doubt in astrology. Many result to horary and natal readings for answers, but I've observed individuals state, they will pray and continue to seek God concerning the matter.
I believe this is a good!!! I believe God has the final say so!!! What this indicates to me is, the individuals know that astrology is simply science, and doesnt hold the final truth. They're inquiring for insight, not answers. I'm not attacking astrology (I'm here often), just stating my observation.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 08-29-2013, 03:28 AM
poyi's Avatar
poyi poyi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,015
Re: If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cancer7 View Post
Another thing I've observed on this site is, individuals doubt in astrology. Many result to horary and natal readings for answers, but I've observed individuals state, they will pray and continue to seek God concerning the matter.
I believe this is a good!!! I believe God has the final say so!!! What this indicates to me is, the individuals know that astrology is simply science, and doesnt hold the final truth. They're inquiring for insight, not answers. I'm not attacking astrology (I'm here often), just stating my observation.

Yes indeed, this is a mystery to all of us.

The believers think that it does work, the reverse for the non believers. No one can give the definite answer.

I think that is exactly part of the game so we then being put into the situation to make the decision as our own Free Will.

Pretty much the same message of the Wheel of Fortune in two different versions. The Wheel is Fixed=The Fate is fixed but how you view it that is up to you.

But the second version of the Wheel has a final answer which is to be Whole. The first one is the eternal wheel that has no completion and no ending....
__________________
“I believe there is something of the divine mystery in everything that exists. We can see it sparkle in a sunflower or a poppy. We sense more of the unfathomable mystery in a butterfly that flutters from a twig--or in a goldfish swimming in a bowl. But we are closest to God in our own soul. Only there can we become one with the greatest mystery of life. In truth, at very rare moments we can experience that we ourselves are that divine mystery.” --Jostein Gaarder, Sophie's World

Last edited by poyi; 08-29-2013 at 03:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 08-29-2013, 03:34 AM
BobZemco's Avatar
BobZemco BobZemco is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: On a web-site far, far away...
Posts: 2,137
Re: If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Space itself is then either 'composed of mass' and/or 'a form of mass' - otherwise space is 'not real'
Of course Space is real...Space has mass.

Space is filled with Higgs Particles.

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1002.3966v3.pdf

Space can be "empty" or "not real" if, and only if, you have Zero Entropy and Zero Energy, which of course results in a Temperature of Zero.

You understand that is impossible, right? In other words, Zero Temperature means nothing at all exists.



__________________
Addressing his pupil, Satyacharya said, "The science of Astrology is a great secret. It should be guarded with care. This sacred science of Astrology should never be taught to bad people. Nor should it be revealed to too many people and very frequently. It should be taught only to a few chosen disciples who really deserve and have the necessary qualifications."
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to BobZemco For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (08-29-2013), SunConjunctUranus (12-19-2018), tsmall (08-29-2013)
  #15  
Unread 08-29-2013, 03:44 AM
Cancer7 Cancer7 is offline
Account Closed
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 386
Re: If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

As far as the wheel of fortune.....
My Pastor often says, God has a plan and purpose for your life. However, it is up to you to submit to the plan and purpose (free will).
Quote:
Originally Posted by poyi View Post
Yes indeed, this is a mystery to all of us.

The believers think that it does work, the reverse for the non believers. No one can give the definite answer.

I think that is exactly part of the game so we then being put into the situation to make the decision as our own Free Will.

Pretty much the same message of the Wheel of Fortune in two different versions. The Wheel is Fixed=The Fate is fixed but how you view it that is up to you.

But the second version of the Wheel has a final answer which is to be Whole. The first one is the eternal wheel that has no completion and no ending....
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Unread 08-29-2013, 04:09 AM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 51,178
Re: If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post
Of course Space is real...Space has mass.

Space is filled with Higgs Particles.

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1002.3966v3.pdf

Space can be "empty" or "not real" if, and only if, you have Zero Entropy and Zero Energy, which of course results in a Temperature of Zero.

You understand that is impossible, right? In other words, Zero Temperature means nothing at all exists.
PROBLEMS WITH ZERO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRRolKTlF6Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zAgNMDbB-w
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Unread 08-29-2013, 04:45 AM
tsmall's Avatar
tsmall tsmall is offline
Senior Member, Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 3,114
Re: If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

Quote:
Originally Posted by poyi View Post
My favorite book, The Little Prince, the best book for the child at heart. For those are interested can download the full version. The entire book explains why the child sees better than the adult who prefers facts, and why human suffers the way they suffering and lost their internal peace.

"Once when I was six years old I saw a magnificent picture in a book, called
True Stories from Nature, about the primeval forest. It was a picture of a boa
constrictor in the act of swallowing an animal. Here is a copy of the drawing.
In the book it said: “Boa constrictors swallow their prey whole, without
chewing it. After that they are not able to move, and they sleep through the
six months that they need for digestion.”
I pondered deeply, then, over the adventures of the jungle. And after some
work with a colored pencil I succeeded in making my first drawing. My Drawing
Number One. It looked like this:
I showed my masterpiece to the grown-ups, and asked them whether the
drawing frightened them.
But they answered: “Frighten? Why should any one be frightened by a
hat?”
My drawing was not a picture of a hat. It was a picture of a boa constrictor
digesting an elephant. But since the grown-ups were not able to understand it,
I made another drawing: I drew the inside of the boa constrictor, so that the
grown-ups could see it clearly. They always need to have things explained. My
Drawing Number Two looked like this....."

Here is the full PDF for download
http://cs.swan.ac.uk/~cswill/The_little_prince.pdf
Le Petite Prince is also my favorite book, viewed from a different perspective.

When reading it, it is important to note that the Prince didn't learn about his realationship with the Rose until he traveled the galaxy and gained perspective. Because now we see through a glass, darkly...
__________________
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." ~Mark Twain
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to tsmall For This Useful Post:
serafin5 (11-20-2013)
  #18  
Unread 08-29-2013, 05:12 AM
poyi's Avatar
poyi poyi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post
Le Petite Prince is also my favorite book, viewed from a different perspective.

When reading it, it is important to note that the Prince didn't learn about his realationship with the Rose until he traveled the galaxy and gained perspective. Because now we see through a glass, darkly...
Indeed the most influential book to me. The Sophia's World, is the second book, a philosophy book that opened up my eyes of the universe as well. Sophia broke out of the restrict of being a destined novel character into another plane of reality to become the writer of her own destiny. These two books are the foundation of my 9th house.

The little prince to me is the closest to the most beautiful thing in a format of written book. It was given by my math teacher he said I will love this book for life and he changed my life. His surname in Chinese means Camel lol his book lead me through desert a few times.

Last edited by poyi; 08-29-2013 at 05:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Unread 08-29-2013, 07:46 AM
Mandy Mandy is offline
Account Closed
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pari, La France
Posts: 527
Re: If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post
Souls do not exist. Nothing unreal exists. Anything real has mass and takes up space. A discussion on Free Will should focus on what is objective, and what can be quantified and qualified objectively, and not esoteric subjectivity.
FYI, human consciousness cannot be quantified (is Sarah more conscious than Becky?) or qualified (see p-zombies; qualia). For those who think this is a small and silly consideration, should know that it is one of, if not the, world's biggest science and mathematics projects (i.e., unresolved) and anyone who claims to have an objective answer to the problem of consciousness wins a Nobel Prize.

The statement is illogical. The concept of free will is a construction by the human mind, which in and of itself is subjective. According to the above assertion (quoted), thus, free will is not an objective phenomenon. It therefore cannot be discussed objectively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post
Of course Space is real...Space has mass.

Space is filled with Higgs Particles.

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1002.3966v3.pdf

Space can be "empty" or "not real" if, and only if, you have Zero Entropy and Zero Energy, which of course results in a Temperature of Zero.

You understand that is impossible, right? In other words, Zero Temperature means nothing at all exists.
It does not mean that.

It means that warmth does not exist. That is all it means.

K is a measure of thermodynamics. Who said a soul/spirit needed thermodynamics to function?

Moreover, scientists have not even been able to experiment with 0K in order to apply this to an interaction with any other theory. With that said, theoretically, even at 0K, there is zero point energy.

Last edited by Mandy; 08-29-2013 at 06:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Mandy For This Useful Post:
poyi (08-29-2013)
  #20  
Unread 08-29-2013, 08:16 AM
poyi's Avatar
poyi poyi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,015
Re: If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

There is Dark energy scientists aware of but unable to measure and still no evidences, however many believed it existing. This is another Nobel Price topic.

"In the early 1990's, one thing was fairly certain about the expansion of the Universe. It might have enough energy density to stop its expansion and recollapse, it might have so little energy density that it would never stop expanding, but gravity was certain to slow the expansion as time went on. Granted, the slowing had not been observed, but, theoretically, the Universe had to slow......the expansion of the Universe has not been slowing due to gravity, as everyone thought, it has been accelerating. No one expected this, no one knew how to explain it. But something was causing it. "
http://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics...s-dark-energy/

There is no absolute answer even in the most advance science. Who are we saying Only the Objective views worth mentioning about?

What is Objective answer anyway? Even White color is not absolutely white. White light in fact is the spectrum of many colors.

Well so far, for sure I know that no one is God here. And we can't even proof if God exist. I don't think anyone have the absolute answer and we are in fact just giving some subjective views from our life experiences.

Each of us just holding our subjective view based on Faith. And that is the Game.
__________________
“I believe there is something of the divine mystery in everything that exists. We can see it sparkle in a sunflower or a poppy. We sense more of the unfathomable mystery in a butterfly that flutters from a twig--or in a goldfish swimming in a bowl. But we are closest to God in our own soul. Only there can we become one with the greatest mystery of life. In truth, at very rare moments we can experience that we ourselves are that divine mystery.” --Jostein Gaarder, Sophie's World
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Unread 08-29-2013, 06:04 PM
Shadowflash's Avatar
Shadowflash Shadowflash is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 156
Re: If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

Hm. Fairly predictable, I suppose, how this discussion/debate has unfolded, eh?

Coupla things here.

For JUPITERASC -- Thanks for your comments! You say:

"The phrase 'prior to incarnation' infers some form of nebulous existence - obviously then a rhetorical question arises regarding the origin of 'the soul aka the self'"

and

"So 'soulgrowth plan' = karma"

While you specified your first comment as rhetorical, I'd like to elaborate a bit here in a way I hope will convey my own *entirely subjective* context of experience and understanding of all this.

Obviously I'm coming from an entirely spiritual frame of reference; I understand the origin of the soul (aka self) literally as Infinite Love, and that each of us as incarnate beings (actually whether in bodies or not) are sparks of/expressions of that Love, or the Divine. I see our cycles of physical lives on Earth as the arena within which we are presented with the choice, moment by moment, whether to choose to enact and embody that love, which dwells within our hearts, or to be/think/act from our entirely-human/egoic energies, which is entirely limited to the realm of mind and almost always dominated by fear. (This life's curriculum for me being quantumly Plutonian/Scorpionic, I've come to understand the dance between spirit/human as pivoting upon the differentiation between control, which is fear-driven, and power, which is love-driven.) I also see this soul/self's journey as a very long and complex one, accomplished over many lifetimes, as we go through much repetitive cause-and-effect-based learning, or *soulgrowth*...

Regarding your second comment, I also wanted to share that for whatever reason...(I'm sure BobZemco would characterize this in many *other ways,* based on his own subjective perspective ).....I came into this life with actual memory of my between-lifetime experience. I remember my human persona...and those of everyone I crossed paths with in that just-past lifetime, no matter what level of involvement...dropping away literally like a mask, revealing their soul-level identity and relationship to me -- which was almost always a continuing long-term saga. One of the biggest shocks was discovering that those with whom I'd had the most diffculty in that life were almost always souls with whom I had the most deep and profound love bond at that higher level...and that *all relationships* I had had, in that life, originated from an agreement made from a similar, very sacred abiding love to portray these roles for one another... Where the word "karma" comes into the picture embraces the fact that the roles we choose to portray for one another draw their inspiration *from* having everything that occurred, all the choices we made in that lifetime, revealed to us *at a truly causal level*. We are able to see all this only because at that level, we are able to *see it all through the eyes of Infinite Love,* which is wholly compassionate and wise; we see exactly why and how even the most horrific of situations, both inner and outer, came to be...and from that context of vision and perception, deep desires to be of further soulgrowth service to one another arise, and are then chosen to be enacted in another lifetime... Often from that higher level we want very much, for instance, to be a source of rich support, love and blessing to a soul we have much amazing history with -- and then, once incarnate deep within the complexities of a human psyche, and within the spell of ego and fear, we (ahem) drift astray from that original intention, and sometimes even cause them great harm. Once that lifetime has ended, we *see what happened,* and from that we intend and create, once again, another opportunity to awaken into living and embodying love within that relationship, instead of fear-based reaction/choices.

From my current incarnate state the analogy came to me of Earthlife being literally like an enormous virtual-reality construct, in which we don aspects of character/persona/psychoemotional qualities (masks or costumes) to then interact with others similarly "veiled" to us and to navigate all these "roads" or 3D circumstantial scenarios for the purposes of soulgrowth.

Argh, that's a very shortened nutshell...and I'm not going to re-read and edit as my pain level's pretty high this morning, but I hope it serves!

For Poyi: I LOVE the quote you use at the bottom of your posts! I couldn't agree more!

Love to everyone...
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Shadowflash For This Useful Post:
poyi (08-29-2013), serafin5 (09-22-2013)
  #22  
Unread 08-29-2013, 06:27 PM
wilsontc's Avatar
wilsontc wilsontc is offline
Senior Member, Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,699
General chat

All,

By request, I have reviewed this thread and do find it to be more of a "General Chat" thread than any sort of R&D. While this thread is a splinter of another thread, since it is NOW it's own thread please stay on the new thread topic. I have deleted posts that verged on attacking and all the responses to those threads as being off-topic from a discussion of "free will" and what that means to you as an astrologer.

Back on topic,

Tim
__________________
To learn basic astrological chart interpretation for your chart see:
http://learnaboutyourastrochart.jimdo.com/
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Unread 09-01-2013, 01:25 AM
serafin5's Avatar
serafin5 serafin5 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: In the california high desert
Posts: 966
Re: If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

Quote:
Originally Posted by poyi View Post
My favorite book, The Little Prince, the best book for the child at heart. For those are interested can download the full version. The entire book explains why the child sees better than the adult who prefers facts, and why human suffers the way they suffering and lost their internal peace.

"Once when I was six years old I saw a magnificent picture in a book, called
True Stories from Nature, about the primeval forest. It was a picture of a boa
constrictor in the act of swallowing an animal. Here is a copy of the drawing.
In the book it said: “Boa constrictors swallow their prey whole, without
chewing it. After that they are not able to move, and they sleep through the
six months that they need for digestion.”
I pondered deeply, then, over the adventures of the jungle. And after some
work with a colored pencil I succeeded in making my first drawing. My Drawing
Number One. It looked like this:
I showed my masterpiece to the grown-ups, and asked them whether the
drawing frightened them.
But they answered: “Frighten? Why should any one be frightened by a
hat?”
My drawing was not a picture of a hat. It was a picture of a boa constrictor
digesting an elephant. But since the grown-ups were not able to understand it,
I made another drawing: I drew the inside of the boa constrictor, so that the
grown-ups could see it clearly. They always need to have things explained. My
Drawing Number Two looked like this....."

Here is the full PDF for download
http://cs.swan.ac.uk/~cswill/The_little_prince.pdf

I really love this book!

S5
__________________


Alicia Michelle Serafin ~ Facebook
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Unread 09-11-2013, 01:00 AM
tsmall's Avatar
tsmall tsmall is offline
Senior Member, Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 3,114
Re: If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post


the ability to act at one's own discretion.
Interesting article on the neurology of "free will."

http://io9.com/5975778/scientific-ev...have-free-will

Acting at one's own discretion implies a conscious decision. The article highlights that the brain unconsciously prepares the body to act before consciousness blooms.

Quote:
His experiment showed that the neurons lit up with activity as much as 1.5 seconds before the participant made a conscious decision to press a button. And with about 700 milliseconds to go, Fried and his team could predict the timing of decisions with nearly 80% accuracy. In some scenarios, he had as much as 90% predictive accuracy.
__________________
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." ~Mark Twain
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Unread 09-11-2013, 03:12 AM
Clinton Soule Clinton Soule is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 599
Re: If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will

As many of you know, we all do it often, but this is an off-shoot branch from Zarathu's thread:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=66767

I started my astro studies with Heindel, an early leader of the Rosicrucian Fellowship, who taught:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/ros/ad.txt

Quote:
Augusta Foss Heindel. ... It is a science which will not set aside the old school of medicine and diagnosis ... etc., and these open-minded men are ready to accept a more advanced method of ..... of the earthy triplicity, and has less power of resistance that the fixed sign of Leo. .... LEO-Inpulse, arrogance, fixity, vitality, ardor
In other words Heindel taught that the more common or mutable planets a native had the younger the soul, and they were like tumbleweeds or grass that blew this way and that way. Yet the more fixity in a horoscope, the older the soul, greater the will power and determination.

http://thesaurus.com/browse/fixity

So I'm going to state, and many of you have noticed this, 'All men are created equal, ...yet some men are more equal than others..'

Note those with great fixity in their respective maps and how much willpower they exhibit in contrast to those with more common sign placements!
.

Last edited by Clinton Soule; 09-11-2013 at 03:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
astrologer, definition, free

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 06:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.