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  #226  
Unread 07-23-2012, 12:52 AM
may28gemini
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

I think that the USA's rising is Gemini and has Mars Uranus in the 1st giving us an aggressive appearance but we're also very willing to fight for freedom and individuality. My question is, how did the USA go from being small and thin Gemini rising to being overweight and lazy? Gemini rising don't tend to be fat, esp. if Mars in there.

I couldn't find anything in here talking about LA and I even though LA is a little too Aries, I'll always LA from top to bottom.

I set the rising as Aries making Aries the 1st house. Look at all that overly selfish and egotistical individualism! Then there's yucky Capricorn Moon, but it's conjoined MC so that's what makes LA famous and sitting at the driver's seat of fame. Cap moon keeps everything in check with some modesty but LA really hate people who don't do things for themselves so LA doesn't tend to reward those who aren't climbers themselves. Maybe LA "invented" fame in the modern way we see "fame." Jupiter in 6th shows that we work hard and we do like to have a good time working hard- why else would the film industry be born in LA? And let's not overlook the fact that LA has zero air. Heh. LA has not been very famous for "thinking" as much as doing and taking lots of risks while doing what it does (overloaded 1st house).

Los Angeles, Calif incorporated April 4, 1850.

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  #227  
Unread 07-23-2012, 08:13 AM
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

STAR GPS (system founded of Paneagle, the american sol astrologer) states; "A sign for every degree" - This forms the grid of longitude and latitude using Equator and Greenwich, to every place in the world.

The USA east is in a 30 degree zone of Gemini. The sol degree is 12 gemini, which corresponds with Boston. The sol 60th harmonic is a key degree. In addition Washington DC is in the 5 degree zone of Cancer, at the 14th degree, which is the birth sun degree of USA. Gemini covers the east coast 5 degrees which is Boston to Philadelphia, the area of the Ivy League and our first American Colleges, and the media center (New York).

I think this is why the USA is seen as Gemini, not because of a 2am birth time on July 2. There may be a relation or occasion to use the 2am gemini rising, but it is not the Independence and declaration chart, which is the main chart of vision for the USA. A look at USA sol chart will reveal some of the other symbols commonly associated with USA such as Libra and Scorpio.

Los Angeles would have a double Aquarius 1 degree from Equator and GMT, to Hollywood. South LA (117) and san Diego also is Capricorn, to go with LA Moon sign. This is the south LA POPULATION centers, and could be relative to the large mexican immigration and the original settlers of the area. But I think Aquarius (international, universal, individualistic, or crazy) is the most common signature of Los Angeles.

The 30 degree position North Latitude from Equator gives the north 30 to 60 degrees to Taurus. Los Angeles is at 4 Taurus, and
relates most to those born in late April. This includes a large group of notables; Jack Nicholson, Barbra Streisand, Debra Winger, shirley maclaine, uma thurman, Jessica Alba, and many other icons.

There is also the Pisces element of the western states, of 5 degree zone from 115 to 120, and 10 degree zone is 110 to 120, both Pisces, 12th sign elements. Lots of creative movie making and artistry. Aries comes in at 120 to 125 (5 degree zone). The 30 degree zone of the western united states is Cancer. Libra is the 5 degree zone from 30 to 35, the pretty southern USA and the west coast "Blondes" and social centers from Atlanta to LA. Scorpio covers the middle 35 to 40 north, and also financial
bread basket (relative to taurus 30 degrees of the world between 30 and 60 north) as well as the origin of storms, the madrid quake for example, and tornado alley. Denver is 39 north, which is late scorpio. The aurora killing had sol in scorpio at 26 degree. Scorpio is also 95 to 100 north, for Oklahoma City, and the drought striken western zone currently is an affect.

Notable is the USA sun at 13/14 cancer aligned with 104 West, being Denver and vicinity, the edge of the Rockies. This is also relatively to Aurora, Colorado, where recent and former Columbine events took place. The USA has a natal saturn square this Sun degree.

The USA is in a pisces and scorpio progression phase in these current years, such as 9/11, economic challenges, immigration challenges, and violence as well as charity and notable sensitivity but often estranged creativity and politics, showing weakness (pisces) and water elements, as in both sides of weather and environmentals, drought and largesse.

Last edited by paneagle7; 07-23-2012 at 08:19 AM.
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  #228  
Unread 07-23-2012, 08:56 AM
may28gemini
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

Umm... Los Angeles is NOT Taurus. YUCK!!! That's a horrible and disgusting thing to say!!! I'm from LA and I was raised in LA and growing up in an ARIES land is very competitive. Anyone who's not from LA and moved to LA thinking that you come here to relax and just mess around and waste time, think again. Los Angeles has long been the land of Aries people and LA rewards those who act Aries (selfish, egotistical, assertive, fast, forward, direct, pushy, goal oriented, money making, independent, go-getter, aggressive, competitive, driven, ambitious, attention grabbing, etc.) LA is definitely NOT Taurus by any means (lazy, fat, over bloated, sensual, relaxed, over spending, into looking at art, slow, etc.)

I've met more Gemini people in LA than any other sign... and the majority of them were born and raised in LA. Most of those Gemini people have either a lot of fire (mimics LA's chart) or they have a ton of air (like me) to fulfill LA's missing element of air. LA acts like fire and feels fiery. Who cares about the few Taurus people who got their 15 minutes of fame? This is about mundane everyday people. I've met more random Aries people in LA climbing their way to success and I have no idea how they do it. Look at Kristen Steward. She has ZERO talent and she's blown up out of the blue because of that stupid Twilight series. She can't act even if Lee Strasberg trained her himself. But yet, she's still more famous than Jessica Alba who's busy being a Taurus mom and trying to please her good for nothing Capricorn husband.

One of my Angeleno friends is Aries Sagittarius Aries combo and doesn't have education beyond a high school diploma and she works hustles like crazy. Her Aries older sister also hustles like crazy. My Dad was born and raised in LA and he went to UCLA (a Gemini college). He's a Scorpio but he has a grand air kite so he carries a lot of air with him. My Dad was on his own since he was 16 years old and had to work really hard to go to school and then to support my Mom when they got married.

A Taurus city would be Las Vegas and that's why it's known as the place of gross sin- nothing but strip clubs and gambling. Angelenos don't need to gamble. We're too practical for that mess. We actually work real hard for our money and we're proud of that. We are really tough people and we're not always cleaned up like how the rest of the world sees us. We get down and dirty and not afraid to break things. LA loves its own fiery kind but also needs a lot of air to keep burning which is why if you live in LA and go out and meet random people, a lot of them you'll find out to be the air signs esp. Gemini.

Last edited by may28gemini; 07-23-2012 at 09:01 AM.
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  #229  
Unread 07-26-2012, 05:18 PM
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

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Originally Posted by Radu View Post
I think there're good points in that article!

GEMINI RISING OF USA AM time CHART
================================================
Let me point out why I think the USA chart is the Sag rising, the more accepted date of July 4. The SOL SIGN is the 60th harmonic sun. This being an 'essential', it is the nature of the nation, and person, the inner self as it were. The USA SOL SIGN of JULY 4 5PM is 19 Gemini. This would be conjunct the STAR CAPELLA, and marks it very much of Gemini quality. The brightest star of the north sky. I think this sign which changes every 12 hours, signifies why the Gemini rising chart gets so many nods, just as you said above.

There is also the USA sun conjunct Sirius on July 4 date. Now I am more than convinced of this, but let me say I do have a Bias. I am a 17 gemini sol degree, and my family name is ADAMS. I believe we are related to the presidents, and am sure of relation to the first governors of massachusetts. Also 77 degrees (17 gemini degree) is Washington DC longitude. My mother was born July 11, same day as John Quincy Adams, and my father oct 28, same day as John Adams. None is just coincidental. By the way, I have Uranus at 13 cancer in the 11th house conjunct the USA sun degree. Hence, The American Sol Astrologer monacre (spelling?).

There are numerous other configurations to the sun and sol degrees to make the SOL METHOD very interesting. One is Thomas Jefferson, a sol Capricorn (like mao tse tung, and Napolean - we were for jefferson, against the others) conjunct the USA pluto. I would also like to point out the american eagle group, for fun. These are sun in late capricorn, including Betty White, kevin costner, Dolly Parton, many others. The Americans like the conjunct to the Eagle star, 0 Aquarius. My wife is SOL 3 Degrees aquarius andmy moon is 14 degree sol aquarius, in the sign of the USA moon as well.

If we progress the USA sol of 19 gemini, we may find the conjunction progressed to the venus, jupiter, and the USA Sun, 14 years after 1776 (1788- Constitutional Venus, 1791 Jupiter, and then 1798/9 leading to the Sun conjunct, which is also square our Saturn. Perhaps the degrees are off a year or so by a degree or less, but the actual rectified birth time could be altered slightly from earlier than 5pm or 5:10pm. But nonetheless, this is all very engaging.

USA sol arc progressions - Gemini 1776-1787, Cancer 1787-1817, Leo 1817-1847 (includes node in early leo conjunction to monroe doctrine (1823) - we take ownership of the continent. The virgo cycle is 1847 to 1877 with Neptune conjunction of 1868/9 during reconstruction after civil war) and the important amendments of that time period. Inventions were manifesting greatly. Libra is 1877-1907 as social immigration and victorian age as well as wild west (libra = california. scorpio 1907-1937, first world war, wealth and depression. sagittarius 1937-1967 proclaims world expansion, new freedom, mashall plan, the rising at 12 sag is 1949, baby boom. Many people. Capricorn 1967-1997 with Pluto 1991 (war in kuwait), selling weapons and Afganisthan vs. Russia, Aquarius 1997-2027 Aquarian technology and internet, conjunct USA Moon is ahead around 2024. Could this mean American becomes the first universal nation on Earth? A country without borders? or something like that.

We must remember USA is in other Pisces (solar progression) and scorpio cycles currently, very watery, concern emotions and human populations. A number of concurrent cycles going on, such as usa constitution, and the world transit cycle of course.

Last edited by paneagle7; 07-26-2012 at 05:21 PM.
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  #230  
Unread 10-30-2012, 05:17 AM
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

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Originally Posted by may28gemini View Post
Umm... Los Angeles is NOT Taurus. YUCK!!! That's a horrible and disgusting thing to say!!! I'm from LA and I was raised in LA and growing up in an ARIES land is very competitive. Anyone who's not from LA and moved to LA thinking that you come here to relax and just mess around and waste time, think again. Los Angeles has long been the land of Aries people and LA rewards those who act Aries (selfish, egotistical, assertive, fast, forward, direct, pushy, goal oriented, money making, independent, go-getter, aggressive, competitive, driven, ambitious, attention grabbing, etc.) LA is definitely NOT Taurus by any means (lazy, fat, over bloated, sensual, relaxed, over spending, into looking at art, slow, etc.)

I've met more Gemini people in LA than any other sign... and the majority of them were born and raised in LA. Most of those Gemini people have either a lot of fire (mimics LA's chart) or they have a ton of air (like me) to fulfill LA's missing element of air. LA acts like fire and feels fiery. Who cares about the few Taurus people who got their 15 minutes of fame? This is about mundane everyday people. I've met more random Aries people in LA climbing their way to success and I have no idea how they do it. Look at Kristen Steward. She has ZERO talent and she's blown up out of the blue because of that stupid Twilight series. She can't act even if Lee Strasberg trained her himself. But yet, she's still more famous than Jessica Alba who's busy being a Taurus mom and trying to please her good for nothing Capricorn husband.

One of my Angeleno friends is Aries Sagittarius Aries combo and doesn't have education beyond a high school diploma and she works hustles like crazy. Her Aries older sister also hustles like crazy. My Dad was born and raised in LA and he went to UCLA (a Gemini college). He's a Scorpio but he has a grand air kite so he carries a lot of air with him. My Dad was on his own since he was 16 years old and had to work really hard to go to school and then to support my Mom when they got married.

A Taurus city would be Las Vegas and that's why it's known as the place of gross sin- nothing but strip clubs and gambling. Angelenos don't need to gamble. We're too practical for that mess. We actually work real hard for our money and we're proud of that. We are really tough people and we're not always cleaned up like how the rest of the world sees us. We get down and dirty and not afraid to break things. LA loves its own fiery kind but also needs a lot of air to keep burning which is why if you live in LA and go out and meet random people, a lot of them you'll find out to be the air signs esp. Gemini.
I joined this forum simply because of your responses.. you crack me up! I love what you have to say and as a fellow gemini, I am genuinely intrigued by what you have to say and your knowledge. I'm a sucker for geology and astrology so when they combine it's like MAGIC! So this is my thank you
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  #231  
Unread 10-30-2012, 05:38 AM
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

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Originally Posted by gypsygemini View Post
I joined this forum simply because of your responses.. you crack me up! I love what you have to say and as a fellow gemini, I am genuinely intrigued by what you have to say and your knowledge. I'm a sucker for geology and astrology so when they combine it's like MAGIC! So this is my thank you
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL ahhhh only other Gemini people get my sense of humor!! I'm glad you joined and hopefully you participate in the forums and get more laughs. I haven't been on for a few months cuz I haven't really been on the net much. Isn't it just the terrible Gemini luck that we get slammed for being jerks when we're just being real and trying to throw some laughs to lighten the mood? Heh.
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  #232  
Unread 10-30-2012, 04:07 PM
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

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Los Angeles like every place and person has lots of signs. Los Angeles is a 1 degree Aquarius and Aquarius. west and north long and lat degrees (Aquarius = Hollywood zone)
North LA is Aquarius to west and north (1 degree Zones of 118 and 34)
The South LA areas are Capricorn to east and Capricorn to south (degrees 117 and 33)

The 30 degree zones of LA is 28 Pisces west (118 west is La La Land), and 4 Taurus (34 north). - If you look up the number of famous april taurus, you will see a significant list of Hollywood luminaries, all earning big dollars (striesand nicholson, LA kings and queens, etc)...A great many Aquarian actors as well. The entire USA North of 30 degrees is Taurus to some degree as is Europe and most of the grain growing property in the world. Ever look at the size of Americans lately? If the nation had any planets in taurus, it would be more. It has none. There is also a lot of Pisces (dreamers, creative arts, movies) in the 5 and 10 degree zones of LA. Aquarius is the air element surely. weird publicity and humanity center / population, travel visitors and immigration.

California is a Virgo state. But I suspect beyond statehood, another sign for each city, and for the specific areas before it became a state. Of course there is some Gemini in LA. Vegas 3 degree is 114 to 117 (gemini), The 3 degree west zone is cancer 117-120 and silicon valley north Cal is 120-123. Maybe the founding of Los Angeles is Gemini. I don't have that information but read account of aries solar chart with capricorn. Yes, there is surely Aries in LA, without a doubt. I suspect it is not a gemini sun either. The USA is gemini setting, with sagittarius rise in east coat, gemini to the west. This is topocentric sign.

Vegas is a gps degrees of scorpio and aries. Perfectly fitting. Hot spot for gambling.
The STAR-GPS system aligns with 1, 3, 5, 10, 15 and 30 degrees zones. Therefore, we can see that Los Angeles has many signs, a mix with some specifics. Aquarius, taurus, etc...The hard working and hustling types (Capricorn) and the movie system (Aquarius). Taurus is money of course. But most of it is generated in Hollywood. As well, the USA Pluto is in Capricorn, and relates to the fire and quake lines associated with this position. It is also the Eagle Star in Aquila is at 0 Aquarius, right in the center degree of LA. The USA Moon is Aquarius, 27 degree, giving Aquarius spots such as LA a lot of our heart and soul. Aquarius is the air element that is missing from the other charts.

For information on Star GPS and other things
www.solastrology.blogspot.com
The light is coming!

Last edited by paneagle7; 10-30-2012 at 04:20 PM.
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  #233  
Unread 11-06-2012, 12:07 PM
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

i think this time, lady luck will still smile at Mr. Obama, and he will be the only us president who finish the red color in the world.
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  #234  
Unread 04-16-2013, 03:53 AM
Bjorkstrand Bjorkstrand is offline
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

14 apr 1861 Fort Sumter is bombarded
14 apr 1865 lincoln shot
14 apr 1970 apollo 13 oxygen tank explodes
15 apr 1961 bay of pigs
16 apr 2007 virginia tech massacre
18 apr 1906 san francisco earthquake
18 apr 1983 suicide bomber destroys us embassy
19 apr oklahoma city bombing
20 apr 1999 columbine high school massacre
Could the 7th house cusp of USA be conjunct the transitting sun?
20 sep 1850 Congress adopts slavery compromise when uranus + pluto are 29 deg aries
22 oct 1962 kennedy addresses nation about the cuban missile crisis
15 apr 2013 boston explosion

Jim
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  #235  
Unread 04-18-2013, 05:22 PM
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

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Originally Posted by Bjorkstrand View Post
14 apr 1861 Fort Sumter is bombarded
14 apr 1865 lincoln shot
14 apr 1970 apollo 13 oxygen tank explodes
15 apr 1961 bay of pigs
16 apr 2007 virginia tech massacre
18 apr 1906 san francisco earthquake
18 apr 1983 suicide bomber destroys us embassy
19 apr oklahoma city bombing
20 apr 1999 columbine high school massacre
Could the 7th house cusp of USA be conjunct the transitting sun?
20 sep 1850 Congress adopts slavery compromise when uranus + pluto are 29 deg aries
22 oct 1962 kennedy addresses nation about the cuban missile crisis
15 apr 2013 boston explosion

Jim
sun square USA mercury and pluto from aries to cap and cancer
- every year around this time.

moon was near conj 9/11 moon this time of 4.15 boston in gemini 26/28 degrees.
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  #236  
Unread 04-23-2013, 12:03 PM
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

I thank Bjorkstrand for pointing out that Lincoln was assassinated on the 14th of April. I had written it was on the 15th in another thread. He died on the 15th. [Always good to have ones facts straight...although, I'm not sure if it is the act or the death itself that counts. Does one say He was shot on the 14th and assassinated on the 15th, or that He was assassinated on the 14th and died on the 15th? No biggie...I had forgotten my history lessons and was thinking it all happened on the same day.] Also for His reminder that Fort Sumter was attacked on an April 14th.

Does anyone else find it curious that John Wilkes Booth was killed by a man named "Boston"?
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Unread 04-23-2013, 03:11 PM
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

I've always preferred Richard Houck's chart which is for two weeks earlier at the start of the Continental Congress. Seems to work super well.
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Unread 04-23-2013, 03:38 PM
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

...for an impromptu coffee coaster.
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Unread 08-23-2013, 04:12 AM
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

Usa chart using 11:08 am
4 July 1776
11:08 am
Philly

The voting took place about 11 am. see John Adams book by David McCullough, p 136

Voting takes 2 minutes.

Jim
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  #240  
Unread 08-24-2013, 01:26 AM
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

Hi all. I got notice that there was a new reply but it looks like it has been deleted. But, I thought I'd bring in up again, (see my comments in2008) in light of all the Scorpio qualities that have been in the news lately and are escalating since 911. At the risk of being spanked again, like the first time I posted my thoughts here, I must say again, when ever I think of the US, with it's symbols, being a major world power, the assertive intervention around the world, forcing our will on other countries in various ways, including manipulation and bully tactics, I must stick with Scorpio rising. The personality of a person or a nation describes how they appear to the world, the mask they wear. No doubt the underworld quality, which would include spying undercover in the name of terror also describes a Scorpio personality. I hope at some point to take many major US events with known time to show once and for all, but for now, I compare the first shots fired beginning the civil war. I am using the time on the clock in the engraving used on the back of the $100 bill, 2:22pm. Now, for some reason the other art used on currency and other government art has this information listed at the library of congress or elsewhere, but not this one. So I find that strange in itself, but also fitting the Scorpio theme of secrecy or hidden information. I sent an email inquiring and got a very fast response saying the engraver was Joachim C Benzing and that he used a photograph. How strange because I searched his name and the only things that come up are him doing the lettering on some postage stamps. Others did the actual pictures. So, I'm not convinced this is true until I see evidence. I wish I could go to the library of congress to see all the originals. Anyway, the time is just too fitting.

Notice CW (civil war) Moon transiting US house of war, tightly square US meridian. Pluto is tightly conjunct the US descendant, the open enemy cusp, even when it is our own citizens. Venus, in the sign of freedom, has just finished a square to US Sun, being critical degree and turning point. CW Sun was at the solstice point of US ascendant. Those are key hits to support a chart.

Next, when we look at progression, we have 6 Scorpio on the MC, repeating the above hits to the US ascendant. CW descendant is the solstice point of the prog. Moon, contra-antiscion. Solar Arc Moon is within a degree of CW Moon. SA Moon is near exact square to CW Jupiter. I'm sure there is more but I don't have time to spend. I haven't even glanced at the declinations yet. Maybe someone else would like to or to look at other major events with known times.

Sunrise charts are always dependable. But, if we want to prove or disprove any birth time we need to take each and compare to major events, as many as possible.

Last edited by AquarianEssence; 08-24-2013 at 01:32 AM. Reason: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=41739&stc=1&d=1377304076
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Unread 08-29-2013, 01:27 AM
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

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Sunrise charts are always dependable. But, if we want to prove or disprove any birth time we need to take each and compare to major events, as many as possible.
No, that is not the purpose or function of Natal Charts.

That is not the purpose of Astrology either. We already have a discipline that explains the past, that being History....or Herstory.

As a reminder to those who might be suffering from terminal confusion, the only time we cast charts to look at the Past, is when we do not know what happened. That is the reason we cast Forensic Charts and Mundane Event Charts, so that we might see what transpired leading up to a person's death or disappearance, or to an event that may have numerous unintended consequences politically or socially.

If you believe you have the correct Natal Chart for the USA, then prove it by making accurate predictions of events in the Future....

...since that is the only reason Astrology exists...to predict Future Events.

A bona fide astrological prediction is stated in terms relevant to the duration of the event itself.

Specific Event X will occur on Date, or Specific Event X will occur on Date +/- 14 Days are both bona fide astrological predictions.

Specific Event X will occur sometime in 2013 is not a bona fide astrological prediction.

Country 'A' will enter recession in Month X, or Country 'A' will enter recession in Calendar/Fiscal Quarter X are bona fide astrological predictions.

Country 'A' will enter into economic problems sometime between 2013 and 2015 is not a bona fide astrological prediction.

If you cannot make bona fide astrological predictions using your chart, then your chart is worthless; of no value whatsoever.

I hope that clarifies things.
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  #242  
Unread 08-29-2013, 12:26 PM
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

Thank you Bob, for your well thought out reply. You leave me with a little confusion I hope is not terminal. I guess everyone that spends time looking at countless past events when doing a rectification is just wasting their time. They should makes some predictions on what ever chart is thrown out there and see if it sticks? I just don't have enough time, or haven't so far, to make more time specific predictions for a country who's time of birth hasn't been proven. I would be more than happy, though, to read your predictions. Do you have them published somewhere.
Quote:
As a reminder to those who might be suffering from terminal confusion, the only time we cast charts to look at the Past, is when we do not know what happened.
We don't know exactly what happened in the past, now do we? I have terminal confusion when I attempt to trust Herstory books. In my lifetime, I've seen textbooks say our founding fathers came here to make a home where they could practice their religion freely. But the books were later rewritten to say it was to reap the wealth of the land. I suspect you might not take my word for that so I visited google to see what info might be out there to back up what I've seen. Prof. Kyle Ward has written a book I can't wait to read because he has a section on some of my ancestors. My family is rewriting history, omitting certain uncomfortable facts. http://www.barnesandnoble.com/sample/read/9781595580443

Sometimes I like to cast a chart for the event of a phone call to me to gain insight that the stars offer, so I did that for your reply to me, last night, 8:29pm Kalamazoo, MI, where the recipient is located. I can see why "terminal confusion" was a part of your reply, Pisces and Neptune rising. Your chosen sign is prominent through 19Sag56 being on the MC, so no doubt where you stand. Jupiter is backing up our critical Sun degree, right now too. Sun seems intent on war though, conjunct Mercury in the 6th, approaching the descendant. I am an American but don't want war with you or Syria. There are better ways that accomplish much more good.

So, why are you in the 5th house, the 8th from the 10th? Why are you in mutual reception with Mars who is also in mutual reception with Saturn in Scorpio, led by the Dragon's head? Your mind may be made up but mine isn't because I haven't seen any of them proved sufficiently. Sure, some events can be shown with any chart that resonates to the entity. I've seen events in one person's chart shown in another family member's chart better than in their own. Are you sure Sag isn't the rising sign of one of the key colonies or founding fathers?

ETA: I just realized, religious freedom, fitting Sag rising or perhaps Sag on the house of goals, is what the history textbooks of the 50s and 60s promoted. But, then when the 70s came around it changed to raping the land for financial gain. That would either be Taurus, if you just saw it as gaining moveable good. But Scorpio fits that better, I think, because we took all sorts of things that belonged to the native Americans. This isn't a history I'm proud of, just like parts of my family history. But it is what it is.

Last edited by AquarianEssence; 08-29-2013 at 02:25 PM. Reason: add comment
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Unread 09-04-2013, 11:46 PM
Clinton Soule Clinton Soule is offline
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

It is my oppinion that the Gemini rising horoscope is the actual chart of the USA because Evangeline Adams predicted entry into WWII and the Stock Market crisis using that map from what I understand.

See this thread for details:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=65445

Quote:
Re: Predicting WWIII
Perhaps some of the Forum membership has read some of Evangeline Adams books as listed:

http://www.google.com/#bav=on.2,or.r...&ved=0CIoBELMY

What Evangeline Adams Knew

http://www.amazon.com/books/dp/0972511709

Quote:
Once the world's most famous astrologer, Evangeline Adams single-handedly popularized astrology in the United States. Now, for the first time, Adams' biographer, astrologer Karen Christino, uncovers all of her astrological secrets. In an easy-to-understand format, you'll discover: - How Adams predicted World War II and the stock market crash of 1929 - How Evangeline foresaw death for Enrico Caruso and Rudolph Valentino - How she chose presidential winners - Evangeline's work with the magician Aleister Crowley, and for clients like Edgar Cayce, Joseph Campbell, Eugene O'Neill and Tallulah Bankhead - Evangeline on trial, with actual court transcripts - How Evangeline chose travel and wedding dates, and analyzed marriage potential in the horoscope
Bold added by yours truly!

Evidently many differ with your opinion Bob Zemco, and yes we all know any fool can write books or put something on the internet, but if the source is published before the event there you have it!

http://solsticepoint.com/astrologersmemorial/adams.html

Quote:

Herb Kugel says in his article, "The Stars on Trial: The Story of Evangeline Adams," in The Mountain Astrologer, Feb/Mar, 2000, p. 53:
"Evangeline Adams was one of the most important influences on the development of American astrology as we currently know it. She became famous because of a tragic hotel fire in which many people perished. Her career climaxed with a precedent-setting court case in which she demanded that astrology itself be placed on trial.
"Adams came from the same illustrious family as two American presidents, John Adams and John Quincy Adams; however, she dismayed her conservative New England relations by, "dabbling in heathenism," that is, by wanting to become an astrologer. She became a very successful astrologer and gave advice and comfort to about 100,000 people during her 40-year career.
"Her clients ranged from the poor and unknown to the powerful and famous. She taught astrology to financier John Pierpont Morgan, who once stated, 'Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do." Tenor Enrico Caruso never crossed the ocean during World War I without first consulting Adams to obtain the safest dates for sailing."
NOTE: To read this fascinating five-page article, with details about Adam's colorful life and her landmark trial, contact The Mountain Astrologer for this and other back issues.

To read a long summary of the Adams case with some verbatim documents, visit Carlo Ravin's tribute to Walter Coleman a pioneer in astrology and the law.

....snip...

About What Evangeline Adams Knew

Once the world's most famous astrologer, Evangeline Adams single-handedly popularized astrology in the United States. Now, for the first time, Adams' biographer, astrologer Karen Christino, uncovers all of her astrological secrets. In an easy-to-understand format, you'll discover:

. How Adams predicted World War II and the stock market crash of 1929
Karen Christino on www.skyscript.co.uk says otherwise about the Hotel Fire and other predictions than your findings Bob Zemco:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/adams.html

Quote:
...... She claimed to have successfully predicted the Windsor Hotel fire in New York City in 1899, and moved there in 1905.
........In a January 2nd 1927 lecture she utilised the cycle of Uranus in the US chart and said "the signs point to a war .... for religious, racial and political reasons, in 1942, 1943 and 1944". Uranus aspecting Jupiter in the US chart, she said, also warned of impending financial difficulties: "In 1928 and 1929... it behooves everyone to be extremely cautious in investment and money matters, and be prepared for this threatening configuration of planets". The stock market crash occurred in October of 1929. ........
Well Bob Zemco this source says the fire was predicted and the part about entering WWII in:

http://www.answers.com/topic/evangeline-smith-adams

Quote:
She became nationally known when she read a chart for the owner of New York's Windsor Hotel on Fifth Avenue predicting a serious disaster that would take place almost immediately. The hotel owner was unaware of any impending problems and took no action, but the next day his hotel was destroyed by fire. The resulting media publicity brought Evangeline Adams immediate fame nationwide. In 1914 she was prosecuted for "fortune-telling" but contested the case in court. She demonstrated her methods of work and made an accurate prediction concerning the judge's son. Judge John H. Freschi acquitted her, stating: "The defendant has raised astrology to the dignity of an exact science."
Adams published various books and pamphlets on astrology, and many famous individuals (including J. Pierpont Morgan, Mary Pickford, singer Enrico Caruso, and King Edward VII of Britain) visited her headquarters at Carnegie Hall. From1930 onward she broadcast three times weekly, and received thousands of letters requesting astrological readings. As early as 1931, she predicted that the United States would be at war in 1942. In 1932 she was booked for a 21-night lecture tour but canceled it after predicting her own death, which duly occurred. She is generally recognized as the leading astrologer of her time who laid the groundwork for professional astrology in the United States. She died in New York November 10, 1933.

Also note in the Gemini rising horoscope the lord of the 7th is combust and according to Lilly that is a very bad thing, about the worst that can happen to a lord or planet.

1) With Jupiter(7H lord)) combust both foreign relations are awry as well as covenants or marriages with the USA. The U.S. currently has a 50-75% divorce rate which is fitting for the trends in the U.S.

2) Every treaty the USA has signed with the native nations on this continent they have broken. Very fitting with their combustion contract house.

3) Note the Moon in Aquarius, independent women, and in the 10th the emphasis is on career, status, reputation, etc. In other words women citizens in the USA are more concerned with their career or status than their overall relalationships to husband or their offspring. Like the former East Germany's Moon in the 10th house, career oreinted women whom were powerful, and the women of the USA are perhaps the most powerful women on the planet despite the dyusfunctional family environments that they have helped create.

Hilary Clinton is to me the tradgic symbol of Moon in Aquarius in the 10th, a woman who is more obsessed with her status and power and true family values are on the back burner or rather the domestic goddess is serving T.V. dinners or bringing home fast food and the contrary role of moon in cancer and the 4H, the ideals far from present in her symbolic role of the ill fated American woman!

Note also the over-emphasis upon wealth, money, finances in the USA with the Sun cjt Jupiter in the 2nd!
.

Last edited by Clinton Soule; 09-04-2013 at 11:55 PM.
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Unread 05-15-2016, 03:14 AM
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Estrellero Estrellero is offline
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

Some thoughts:

The first is that the letter of the Ascendant in Gemini, especially for versions of 2:14 a.m. and 2:17 a.m, has Ascendant in Gemini 9th conjunct Uranus. The official Sibly chart has Ascendant in Sagittarius 9th, in opposition to Uranus. Both cards have their Ascending exactly in place of Descending of the another. The same transits and progressions that indicate significant events in a chart, indicated them in the other, only that what is in conjunctions on Ascendant, in the other chart is on Descendant. Therefore, both charts are useful. Antares-Aldebaran axis (or Aldebaran-Antares for those who prefer so), decisive in the history of USA, is exactly the same in both charts.

Supporters of chart Gemini-Ascendent argue that the sign of USA must be Gemini, by the geminian characteristics they attribute to their country. In contrast, the ones who observe to USA from outside would rather attribute it sagittarian characteristics. They are two sides of the same coin.

Unless Franklin, Jefferson and the other followers of astrology among the Founding Fathers had organized a night party in a masonic lodge to celebrate at this unusual time 2:17 am (who had supposedly calculated by them as optimum) an esoteric or symbolic proclamation of independence, and analyzing the subject from the historical point of view, it is clear that a daytime hour is more appropriate for an official or public proclamation. Probably at 2:17 a.m. most of them were sleeping at home.

In 1776 (since then it has rolled about 3 by the phenomenon of precession) Sirius, the brightest star in the sky, was on 12th Cancer, exactly conjunct the natal Sun of the Great Republic of July 4th , which provides honors, awards, praise and wealth. Sirius was fundamental to ancient Egyptians, and if the Founding Fathers were all masons and therefore familiar with egyptian symbology (shown in dollar bills), it is normal that they would have ensured that the Republic were born with star Sirius in conjunction with natal Sun, and therefore, each anniversary of independence on July 4th at dawn, that star appeared on the horizon ahead of the rising sun.



Franklin and Jefferson couldn't know the new planets Uranus (discovered in 1781 by Herschel), Neptune and Pluto. They surely should picked another time, if they would have known them. Uranus in Descendent close to Mars shows the straining and fiery relations USA has had with the rest of world. Neptune close to Midheaven and Lilith says the country loads with ideological world leadership, or can be a target for fundamentalists of diverse trends. Pluto opposite Mercurius in the axis 2th - 8th is wealth, but also hazard to financial crashes.

Last edited by Estrellero; 05-15-2016 at 12:01 PM.
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Unread 05-15-2016, 04:43 PM
AquarianEssence AquarianEssence is offline
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

You make some very good points, Estrellero. I believe Ptolemy, followed by Lily, gave all of North America to Gemini. So of course the US, which claims much of the territory, would have a certain Gemini flavor and themes, such as the twin towers episode of our history.
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  #246  
Unread 05-15-2016, 07:17 PM
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

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Originally Posted by AquarianEssence View Post
You make some very good points, Estrellero. I believe Ptolemy, followed by Lily, gave all of North America to Gemini. So of course the US, which claims much of the territory, would have a certain Gemini flavor and themes, such as the twin towers episode of our history.
According to Sibley chart Descendant, the place of declared enemies, would be in Geminis, in conjunction with Uranus, the planet of unexpected events. The day of the attack over Twin Towers the malefic Saturn transited on the midpoint between Uranus and Mars in 7th House, while Pluto opposed from Sagittarius just below Ascendant. Twin Towers at the site of declared enemies represent the target of the attack.

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Unread 05-16-2016, 05:10 PM
AquarianEssence AquarianEssence is offline
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

I don't tend to think of the enemies of the US as Gemini, which is quite fickle and easily moved by outside influences. This is part of the reason the Sibley chart doesn't seem the most accurate to me. Also a birth chart should reflect the country's symbols, which this one doesn't. Take Iraq, for example. They use the eagle on their coat of arms, their house of values is ruled by Scorpio, with Moon (critical degee) and Pluto both there.

It's interesting that the name was given by England to Iraq, the name meaning 'firmly rooted land' or 'land of the Sun'. That quarter of the inhabited world is associated with the earth signs but Iraq as ancient Chaldea, in about the center of the inhabited world at that time, is at the edge of the fire quarter and is governed by the Sun, with the nature of Leo. Isis is an ancient name of Venus and was venerated by this part of the world. Venus is culminating in Iraq's chart. Iraq as ancient Persia is governed by Taurus, ruled by Venus/Isis. Iraq as Babylon, Assyria and Mesopotamia ('land between two rivers') is governed by Mercury, through Virgo. (Ptolemy Tetrabiblos) At the time of the 1st attack, Mercury was rising and ruled the Virgo 12th house of hidden enemies with Sun on the cusp. Mercury was tightly trine Saturn, also associated with that part of the world as Mithras Helios. Saturn was in Gemini in the 9th, perhaps the head of the mission. Venus was in mutual reception with and in Sun's sign, Leo, and she ruled the ascendant and 8th house.

The event Venus was in Leo, disposited by Sun, who was in Virgo, disposited by Mercury rising. So, we see the attackers were connected to a country governed by Venus, Sun and Mercury, just as Ptolemy would say, I'm sure. Countries may have modern birth charts due to political changes but the more ancient rulers work. By the way, Iraq's 762 chart has Libra rising, just as the twin towers attack.

Iraq's open enemy is Mars in Gemini in the 9th house. That's us for sure. Gemini=North America at least.
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Unread 06-25-2016, 09:38 PM
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

People who have a strong connection with the United States usually these axis degree prominent in their chart.

The first axis is the Leo/Aquarius especially the degrees from 23 to 29 and usually from 6 to 13.

The second axis as you mentioned is the Taurus/Scoprio axis specifically from 17 to 29 Scorpio/Taurus axis.

Gemini/Saggitarius axis first decan especially 8 and 12 and degree 21 to 27

Also Virgo 9 degree and Pisces 9 and sometimes 0 Pisces/Virgo.

People with Pisces 9 or Capricorn 20 degree might have troublesome with the US,such as Ronald Reagan and Richard Ramirez.

I came up with this conclusion after studying USA main Harmonic charts of, the twelfth harmonic and the fourth harmonic. And after doing synastry with people who influenced the USA, I found out these people have these degree prominent in their charts.
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Unread 06-25-2016, 09:53 PM
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

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Originally Posted by theV View Post
People who have a strong connection with the United States usually these axis degree prominent in their chart.

The first axis is the Leo/Aquarius especially the degrees from 23 to 29 and usually from 6 to 13.

The second axis as you mentioned is the Taurus/Scoprio axis specifically from 17 to 29 Scorpio/Taurus axis.

Gemini/Saggitarius axis first decan especially 8 and 12 and degree 21 to 27

Also Virgo 9 degree and Pisces 9 and sometimes 0 Pisces/Virgo.

People with Pisces 9 or Capricorn 20 degree might have troublesome with the US,such as Ronald Reagan and Richard Ramirez.

I came up with this conclusion after studying USA main Harmonic charts of, the twelfth harmonic and the fourth harmonic. And after doing synastry with people who influenced the USA, I found out these people have these degree prominent in their charts.
I am troublesome with / about U.S. but not hopeless. I think people can view your hypoth through these placements.

Good job V at getting to the bone of the beast - which is "the reaction by the public/person/planet - is shown by the connection to the country's chart - not so much by what the country does.
Mars in Cancer in 11th house.
Pluto NNode conj. 6 & 7' pisces in 2nd.
Jup/Sat conjunct in 6th 20 & 22 ' Cap.
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Unread 06-25-2016, 11:31 PM
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Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

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I am troublesome with / about U.S. but not hopeless. I think people can view your hypoth through these placements.

Good job V at getting to the bone of the beast - which is "the reaction by the public/person/planet - is shown by the connection to the country's chart - not so much by what the country does.
Mars in Cancer in 11th house.
Pluto NNode conj. 6 & 7' pisces in 2nd.
Jup/Sat conjunct in 6th 20 & 22 ' Cap.
Thank you, Kitchy. The harmonic placement do not only explain the connection between public personality and the country, but also explains some of the country "traits"-I don't know if it is the right word. The harmonic suns of US falls in Virgo and Taurus.

Virgo harmonic sun might explain obsession over health matter, analytic/critical tendencies of Americans, perfectionist attitude. It falls in the ninth house, multi-cultural nation, many ideologies, argumentative side of Americans, exploring believe system.

Then we have Taurus Sun in the sixth house, house health again and also SLAVERY.

I always had a fascination with the US. I picked the English language easily, and I always had unintentional urge to explore the history and the culture. My natal Sun is in 9 Virgo conjunct the Harmonic US Sun. Astrologer Alice Portman said that we are attracted to people whose harmonic charts touches our natal points.

Last edited by theV; 06-25-2016 at 11:36 PM.
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