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  #1  
Unread 08-14-2019, 09:04 AM
watermerc watermerc is offline
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How to deal with Fiery people?

I'm not sure if this would be more fit to psychological or spiritual astrology as it borders both. I've had lots of problems with Fire people and wonder if anyone else can relate?



Natally I have very much Earth and Water placements, two Air placements in addition to that but no Fire at all. I often have hard time dealing with people with natal fire placements. Not often I attract people with dominating Fire charts, but Fire moons with earthly or watery suns seem to be quite common! And in the end they all come off as disappointingly selfish, that they come off as compassionate and helpful at first but in the end discard me if I don't offer ego boosts to them. Only twice I've attracted people with most of their natal planets in Fire signs and in both cases I've left thinking if they're narcissistic. "I care about you only as long as it benefits me - once I'm done, you're only that crazy person who can't let go" woud be their attitude. I don't also understand how these people treat life as a complete joke and diss me for being too serious like: "Whoa your watery emotions are psycho! I was just joking" and then I end up wondering... okay when is it that such person should even be taken seriously? Is it okay to hurt them and if they react, it would still be a joke? As they have done to me sometimes.



But then this can't be healthy. Am I just attracting something that could energetically be "toxic masculine" due to lack of this element myself? Or is it just because I don't understand Fire element, they all only come off to me as selfish, domineering, ignorant of others and narcissistic? Is there a way to heal relationship with Fire energy/masculine archetypes and be their equal instead of being treated as an object/pawn/trophy by them? Or to stop seeing myself as narcissistic for starting to embody more Fiery qualities.



Also, are Fire moons ultimately selfish souls, if Ego (sun in compassionate water or practical earth) is just an illusion of conscious mind?

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  #2  
Unread 08-14-2019, 07:30 PM
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Re: How to deal with Fiery people?

Whatever element you lack, you need people in your life who can bring you that element. Fire people are people you need.

Fire is action and self expansion. People with little or no fire in their charts may have plenty of stability and practicality (earth) or emotional connectedness, sensitivity, and empathy (water), or ideas (air), but to get anything going, fire energy is needed.

If you want to start some kind of endeavor, breathe life into a creative process, anything like that, it would help you immensely to team up with someone who has fire energy. They'd be the one to push the project into action, while you provide what they can't: maybe the practical steps to make the action actually connect with reality, maybe the connection with others to bring them in and make them feel comfortable with what you're doing. If your fire collaborator lacks earth or water, those are qualities you would bring.

But to be able to be in each other's lives, let alone collaborate on anything, both of you would have to fully accept the different qualities in each other. Fire energy may seem selfish to those who lack it, even if the fire individual doesn't behave in a particularly selfish way. None of the other elements are as expansive. None of the others have such a strong focus on self. Leo and Aries in particular are self driven: self will (Aries) and ultimate self development (Leo), while Sagittarius takes that expansion principle out into the world: expand self by exploring, having experiences, trying things out.

For water and earth in particular, that's anathema: they're the yin elements, which need peace and quiet. Earth also insists on self containment. Water has a certain selfless, fluid quality to it, and, as you've recognized, strong emotions and a need to have them validated. If your dominant elements are earth and water, and you have no fire, someone with fire dominant energy might seem too loud and in-your-face, even if they're not objectively loud or in-your-face.

But you're not just saying, "There's something about fire people that feels selfish," you're describing genuinely selfish and cruel behavior. It sounds like the real problem you've been having with these fiery folks is that they dismiss your watery needs. For people with different chart elements to get along, they both have to respect that their different needs are equally valid. Water is perhaps the most difficult element to manifest because deep emotions are so socially taboo. People who don't have so much water that they can't help but manifest it are quick to dismiss the water qualities in themselves, and even quicker to dismiss it in others.

If these are people who have a water sun sign, they have water needs of their own. It's not that you're attracting fire people and having problems with them. It's that you're attracting water people who dismiss the water in themselves, and get extra cruel to anyone who reminds them of that quality.

Who you really need in your life is people who have good fire qualities and recognize the needs of water. Which would mean that they would have to accept the water qualities in themselves, or, if they completely lack water, they would have to accept the difference between themselves and those who manifest water qualities, and consider water sign qualities equally valid to their own.
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Unread 08-14-2019, 11:18 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: How to deal with Fiery people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by watermerc View Post
I'm not sure if this would be more fit to psychological or spiritual astrology as it borders both. I've had lots of problems with Fire people and wonder if anyone else can relate?



Natally I have very much Earth and Water placements, two Air placements in addition to that but no Fire at all. I often have hard time dealing with people with natal fire placements. Not often I attract people with dominating Fire charts, but Fire moons with earthly or watery suns seem to be quite common! And in the end they all come off as disappointingly selfish, that they come off as compassionate and helpful at first but in the end discard me if I don't offer ego boosts to them. Only twice I've attracted people with most of their natal planets in Fire signs and in both cases I've left thinking if they're narcissistic. "I care about you only as long as it benefits me - once I'm done, you're only that crazy person who can't let go" woud be their attitude. I don't also understand how these people treat life as a complete joke and diss me for being too serious like: "Whoa your watery emotions are psycho! I was just joking" and then I end up wondering... okay when is it that such person should even be taken seriously? Is it okay to hurt them and if they react, it would still be a joke? As they have done to me sometimes.



But then this can't be healthy. Am I just attracting something that could energetically be "toxic masculine" due to lack of this element myself? Or is it just because I don't understand Fire element, they all only come off to me as selfish, domineering, ignorant of others and narcissistic? Is there a way to heal relationship with Fire energy/masculine archetypes and be their equal instead of being treated as an object/pawn/trophy by them? Or to stop seeing myself as narcissistic for starting to embody more Fiery qualities.



Also, are Fire moons ultimately selfish souls, if Ego (sun in compassionate water or practical earth) is just an illusion of conscious mind?
I think it can be difficult to look at fiery people, through an Earthy/Watery perspective. It may look to a yin type person, that fiery souls are selfish, or stingy.

But that might be misleading, or unfair.

I am a Scorpio, with Taurus rising and a Cap Moon. My husband is an Aries, our son is an Aries, his wife is an Aries, and my Daughter is an Gemini with Mars in Aries. Her man is a Leo with Sag rising.

I am sometimes the odd man out, although I am the glue that holds us all together.

Sometimes I do feel like one of them is being self serving or bratty. And I do call them out on it.

But at the same time, they are all successful, productive, ambitious people that don't get all 'victimy' or self conscious and sensitive, like I am prone to be.

I have learned a lot over the years from my wonderful Aries husband. He keeps things moving and brushes off criticism and does what his heart tells him to do. He is creative and fun loving.

His father wanted him to join the family business, and stay in their small, quaint town back in New England. Hubby wanted to go to Los Angeles and become a comedy writer. His family thought he was nuts.

He followed his dreams and became a successful writer and has never regretted the decision, although it did cause some family turmoil. His siblings thought he was being selfish and insensitive. Oh well....it didn't stop him from pursuing his goals and ambitions.

I would have caved in to my family if I was him. I was the one that kept family communication and concerns going, and it was good for all of us. Our kids have good connections with their family back east because of my Earth/Water preponderance. I listened to their complaints and criticism and smoothed things over. It worked.

I needed his Fire to break free from my inner fears/doubts and he needed my Earth to help him focus and be realistic.

Please dont buy too heavily into this 'toxic masculinity' label. The world is dual natured. Both masculinity and femininity can be toxic . There are some very toxic mothers in the world, that helped to create the 'toxic' males that this generation is complaining about. It is a 2 way street.

Fire is creativity, spirit, the divine spark. Keep looking at the essence and divine source of Fire. It will enable you to incorporate it more fully and authentically.

One of my favourite things about getting all my Aries/Leo family members together is seeing them be spontaneous and hilarious. We have so much fun on Thanksgiving and Christmas. Lots of laughter and joy, doing things in a different way each time. One year we all went bowling. lol Last Christmas my husband ordered antique 'Fez' hats for everyone, off the internet.

We all wore them to Christmas dinner. Our pictures from that holiday were hilarious and sparked so much laughter. Never a dull moment with an entire room full of fiery souls.

My double Taurus granddaughter and I sometimes have go outside to the garden to catch our breaths.

Last edited by katydid; 08-14-2019 at 11:23 PM.
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Unread 08-16-2019, 10:56 AM
watermerc watermerc is offline
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Re: How to deal with Fiery people?

Thanks for the advice, it helped me to get some perspective.


I was friends with someone with Water sun and Fire moon back in highschool. Loved their company, it was the positive saggi moon which helped me to get inspired and creative, regardless of my preference to stick myself to practical realities and emotions that surround it. It was harder to rise above and be more confident regardless of what others said. She wasn't traditionally nurturing friend but I felt nurtured by her acceptance and creativity.



I had another friend with same Sun Moon signs even, but more Fire dominance, the amount of water was a bit less. More earth, less air also. And this was the most toxic relationship I had had this far, started out well but we ended up arguing a lot and it caused me headaches. I learnt to just get going regardless of criticism and all that, but it may also be as you put it, I reminded them of the watery ego they wanted to hide. She did criticise me for being a victim/doormat after all while I was trying to assert how "walking over me" made me feel and the other person needs to stop (practising boundary setting).



Most fire people this far are just difficult to handle. They can push people aside or even hurt them slightly to get their way, and they aren't punished for hurting others but rewarded for being productive. It's like they don't need to think consequences of their actions when it comes to others. I've never been rewarded like that, but scolded that I should -always- think about others and keep my goals uncompetitive so that it will never ever ever even accidently cause harm to any living being here. Earth helps me to set some boundaries to watery empathy, but it also drains me to feel others pain while others have freedom to do whatever they want without feeling anything but their own emotions. In this way, I envy fire people too. But most of the times they just feel difficult to deal with. I wish I'd have my own fire instead of being asked to rely on someone elses...



It's odd.

Last edited by watermerc; 08-16-2019 at 11:07 AM.
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  #5  
Unread 08-17-2019, 12:33 AM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: How to deal with Fiery people?

"...think about others and keep my goals uncompetitive so that it will never ever ever even accidently cause harm to any living being here."




I read and reread this statement. And even with my Taurus rising conjunct Jupiter and an 8th house Cap Moon, I think that is a very burdensome belief system you are living with.

You have to keep all your goals 'uncompetitive' to never accidentally cause any hurt feelings to any living thing, ever?

That is a very lofty goal and perhaps unnecessary and a bit extreme.

If you were working in a company that had a monthly sales goal, would it be wrong to try and outsell your coworkers, to make extra commission and maybe get a promotion?

Would you decide not to compete, so you wouldn't accidentally hurt anyones feelings if you sold more product that month?

If there was a local art contest and you wanted to enter one of your paintings, would you feel conflicted, in case you might win, and hurt a friends feelings?

And, if your friend won the art contest instead of you, by entering 3 large paintings, outshining your one small entry, would you be angry at them for hurting your feelings?

I have learned from my many Fire oriented relatives, that 'hurt feelings' are not their main concern. it is not their burden. It is the burden of the person who is milking and harbouring that 'hurt.'
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Unread 08-17-2019, 01:52 AM
Ficciones91 Ficciones91 is offline
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Re: How to deal with Fiery people?

I am probably the exact profile of person who is probably problematic to you. I am a male Sagittarius Sun, Mercury & Mars (With conjunction of mercury & mars). Aries Moon (With Sun Trine Moon). All my Sag planets are in the 6th house and my moon is in the 11th. So I am actually quite introverted.


I've noticed some people are drawn to me inexplicably then repelled once they spend some time around me. I think the importance of polarity in bringing people together can be exaggerated but it has some truth, the more feminine Earth/Water a women is the more she is drawn to me. I think people with a lot fire exude energy without even trying to and push boundaries without considering the needs of others. I didn't realise how emotionally selfish I was until my early 20s, when one of my best friends(a virgo), told me sometimes he was unsure if I cared about him.



My mother is Pisces Sun, Cancer Moon we have that kind of dynamic where we are just so emotionally different that it's almost like we are speaking a different language sometimes. However like osamenor said, this could be good for growth, my relationship with my mother is volatile but dynamic with a sense of direction, I've helped her become more assertive, she's helped me become more emotionally sensitive.


I wonder what your 7th house/descendant (other people, what you look for outside yourself looks like perhaps without realising). Also your nodal axis may be interesting in this regard. Hope this helps.
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Unread 08-17-2019, 03:41 AM
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Re: How to deal with Fiery people?

I agree that if you are going to view people with fire suns or moons as not-water or not-earth, they are going to come across as deficient.

Unfortunately most other people are not on the planet to meet our emotional needs. To a very fiery person, a very watery person might come across as too needy or clingy. The expression "wet blanket" comes to mind. They just can't handle it.

I suggest you treat them with a light touch. Aries needs its independence, Leo needs to excel, and Sagittarius needs to appear knowledgeable.

My moon is in Leo, and I kinda resent the idea that fire moons are "ultimately selfish souls." A happy Leo sun or moon is known for its generosity of spirit.
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Unread 08-17-2019, 03:51 AM
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Re: How to deal with Fiery people?

Following your thread with some interest because I have 6 fire placements, including the Moon. And I find most OTHER people selfish ;-)
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Unread 08-17-2019, 06:32 AM
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Re: How to deal with Fiery people?

I've not generally noticed prolonged and deep discussions about fire signs (is this because the element itself doesn't encourage this kind of approach?) so I also monitor this thread with interest. As one who also has 6 placements in fire, I don't tend to have such a sad view of those with dominant water energy in their charts. Fact is those who I've drawn closest to in recent years have all had water dominance - mostly Scorpio stelliums but the other water signs make an appearance for sure.

There is a self-containment and a "wrapped up in oneself-ness" that could contribute to fiery people seeming so selfish and unconcerned with others. While seen as an extroverted element, I find these elements meld well with a more introverted outflow.
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Unread 08-17-2019, 10:37 AM
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Re: How to deal with Fiery people?

Speaking of Stelliums in FIRE, I see a big difference between someone with an Aries stellium, and someone with a Sag stellium.

I think the fire energy seen in a Sag stellium has evolved a bit more, as the 9th sign, and is more interested in others, and how they are adapting to the community, etc.

Sometimes a native with an Aries stellium is profoundly self centred and in spite of that, may lack the self awareness to even realise the problem with that attitude.

Whereas the Leo stellium native is aware of the issue, but doesn't care and is even proud of it.

Last edited by katydid; 08-17-2019 at 10:39 AM.
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Unread 08-17-2019, 02:33 PM
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Re: How to deal with Fiery people?

With a Leo moon I find I have a strong need inside me to be noticed and feel deeply hurt when not however thatís my private inside my head need. But when it comes to being selfish I donít feel Iím selfish. I feel I help ppl too much and need to know or learn when to be balance this as I can get taken advantage off and then feel hurt when I realise Iíve helped someone but THEY have been selfish with it. I have a stellium in sag but I donít feel I use it or canít see I use it! Itís intercepted. Now one thing I can say is and Iím not sure if this has anything to do with my fire but Iím assuming it may have and thatís is I live inside my head a lot if that makes sense. I donít have much wart and nearly no water elements. Iím all air and fire 🔥 and a deep need for attention which doesnít get showed outwardly which frustrates me. Is it that fire ppl donít see they are selfish or is it that other element see fire as selfish and they may not be? Example I find water ppl very manipulative so is this my perception due to having no water or is this the teal thing... reality... saying that though I donít mix well with Sagittarius. I find them evil lol
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Unread 08-17-2019, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post
Speaking of Stelliums in FIRE, I see a big difference between someone with an Aries stellium, and someone with a Sag stellium.

I think the fire energy seen in a Sag stellium has evolved a bit more, as the 9th sign, and is more interested in others, and how they are adapting to the community, etc.

Sometimes a native with an Aries stellium is profoundly self centred and in spite of that, may lack the self awareness to even realise the problem with that attitude.

Whereas the Leo stellium native is aware of the issue, but doesn't care and is even proud of it.
I donít think thats a valid generalization to be made. I know a person with a sag stellium involving all personal planets, sun and Jupiter in Sag. Taurus rising so its all 8H. He is incredibly smart and knowledgeable and wise in theory but manipulative and violent and definitely not what we would call Ąevolvedď. He is almost 40 so of course still has time to change. But just an example to show that its not necessarily that simple.
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Unread 08-18-2019, 03:11 AM
Ficciones91 Ficciones91 is offline
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Re: How to deal with Fiery people?

I think people with strong fire placements are self sustaining, which can be threatening to water types and to a lesser extent earth types who maybe need to feel needed.
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Unread 09-19-2019, 03:01 PM
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Re: How to deal with Fiery people?

Osamenor has replied pretty much everything that I know about how things go.

Might I add something from my own experience as we share a lot of similarities in our natal chart: if you disregard Chiron I have 1 fire, 3 air, 4 earth and 5 water elements so I would be in a very similar position like you when it comes to fiery people.

Maybe it's the fact my mum is an Aries, but I've learned to understand and adapt to them and two of my best friends are now Aries (1 male and 1 female).

Sure they're narcissistic, but they're extremely conditioned. Their intelligence is based on conditioning in this mechanism: Being too impulsive, they learn to predict people's behaviour and learn where their lines are. That means, if you don't show your real face they'll just keep on exploiting you, because it works for them. But when they get burned or punished, they'll learn to respect your borders.

Also, being extremely conditional in the way fire signs operate, it means they're quite natural when it comes to "people arithmetic", that is, they count favor - to - favor and keep a check of who deserves what, so they themselves could avoid being exploited, and to avoid losing influential people in their lives.

So my guess is you're going through a hard time and need some more friendliness then they can show you. If you still can't find a way to satisfy their needs and express your needs, you should turn to your water friends for consolation, until you're back up on the feet. Because when you're back up on your feet, you're gonna need to work and function and you'll hardly succeed without some fire to show you the way and fill you with courage to do so.

Or maybe you're just not intimate enough with them. Don't be afraid to them, they also have emotions but only have harder time expressing them. It's your water signs intuition which should be your strongest tool in helping them understand and act on their own emotions. Really, it's a synergy with long term consequences, getting intimate with fire signs. And the optimal approach to them is most likely direct, honest but with euphemism, that is carefully selected synonims for words which could trigger their temper.

Last edited by Ekonomist13; 09-19-2019 at 03:03 PM.
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Unread 09-19-2019, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ficciones91 View Post
I think people with strong fire placements are self sustaining, which can be threatening to water types and to a lesser extent earth types who maybe need to feel needed.
I agree with this for sure
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