Liz Greene and her concept of elements

I have noticed this quite frequently the connection and the draw of earth signs to fire signs. Even among the same sex, its like the earth signs almost worship the fire signs. What is is that is causing the attraction between them.

Also if fire needs air and earth and earth does need fire. But seems like water and air can do fine by themselves as in they don't need any external element for their existence do they.

Is that also why water signs are most compatible with other water signs and the same with air.

I know this may be too generalized but can someone shed some light on this. I have seen this happen too many times in real life. Earth being drawn magnetically to fire signs.

Well I can't say I've noticed that IRL. Are you just talking about sun signs? I would guess that sort of attraction has to do with the yin and yang thing. Introverted vs extroverted signs. I can see how earth signs in all their inert stability might glorify the action oriented nature of fire. I think fire & earth can make a good combo for a long lasting relationship like a piece of pottery.

Yes i am referring to the sun signs, because i have seen it so often, i am curious about it. There is a definite pattern. Which brings me to the next question as to what how much do sun signs contribute to attraction etc.

rassy said:

Yes i am referring to the sun signs, because i have seen it so often, i am curious about it. There is a definite pattern. Which brings me to the next question as to what how much do sun signs contribute to attraction etc.

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a little, via general compatability, but most attraction is ex sun signs and the soup between all the planets of two people

As for liz greene if you are a beginner i would stay away from her writings

She is dense, and too pyschological, too deep when its not needed, uses freud and jung, both discredited in a few regards, and can generally mess with your head! shes ok if you know what shes talking about, she does hit the mark but

i wouldnt have her as a teacher of astrology, only if u want to get in psychological astrology in a deep way etc and in her own understanding

It is possible that someone heavily invested in earth would admire a fire-sign's initiative and go-getter approach.

The best take on the elements, from a modern astrology perspective, that I know about is Stephen Arroyo's work. Basically he says that the predominant element shows you what is very real for a person.

Earth: material, practical things are very real.
Air: Ideas
Fire: Action
Water: Feelings.

In terms of synastry, earth and fire are not the best matches going, if you think about the aspects that would be involved. However, we have a solar system of planets to look at, and it is possible that all of the planets compared tell different stories because you would find different elements interacting.

I view it in a kabbalistic way:

Fire: Creative/intuitive
Water: Receptive/intuitive
Air: Mental
Earth: Physical

Fire is the first emation of the elements and closest to spirit and thus has the other 3 elements inside it as well. Earth is the physical manifestion of the previous 3 elements, so it has a piece of the other 3 as well, but to a lesser extent than fire since it's at the bottom.

I personally prefer water signs the most, second is Earth, Air comes last. It depends on the person, I wouldn't brush off someone based on a sun sign. A venus sign however....

to delve into this intuitive nature a bit more. What differentiates the emotional nature of fire and water . Are air and earth thus unemotional. She has written that air signs are not even in touch with their emotions, how about earth signs, do they repress them?

How would you differentiate the emotional nature of fire and water, since both are considered to be subjective people

Waters the most receptive element, so emotionally they're very influenced by their past, their environment and other ppl. Moreso than any other element.

Fire is the most projective element, so emotionally they march to the beat of their own drum, in general. Ie bad situations/ppl aren't gonna bring them down as easy and they can let go of the past easier.

Earth isn't unemotional, but they generally react to and approach things in a more pragmatic way.

Air is the least emotional. Except for Libra (Venus influence).

It bothers me no end to hear that "air signs are not in touch with their emotions." We might as well say that water signs are not in touch with their capacity for rational thought, or that earth signs are not in touch with their initiative.

Is there some kind of privileging of emotions going on here, above and beyond the other qualities that people require to get along in life?

Each element has a different function in the chart. We don't expect air signs "to get in touch with their feelings" if feelings get defined by a smothering Cancer, a manipulative Scorpio, or a sad Pisces. Moreover, the moon is the emotional power-house in a chart.

Of the 4 elements air signs would be least in touch with their emotions and weakest with them... In general. Doesn't mean they don't have emotions, or that they can't get in touch with them.

Water would be the element least capable of rational thought in general as well. Of the water signs Scorpio would be the most capable of rational thought, due to the Uranus influence. Again this doesn't mean water ppl can't be thinkers.

For most ppl emotions and the intellect are at odds with each other, which is why in most cases if a person is strong in one they'll be weak in the other. But some ppl can combine the 2 and have them compliment each other, which is rare.

It's just generalities we're speaking of... A dominant air element person can be stronger emotionally than a dominant water element person. It depends on other factors in the chart and ultimately the person itself.

The Ram said:

Of the 4 elements air signs would be least in touch with their emotions and weakest with them... In general. Doesn't mean they don't have emotions, or that they can't get in touch with them.

Water would be the element least capable of rational thought in general as well. Of the water signs Scorpio would be the most capable of rational thought, due to the Uranus influence. Again this doesn't mean water ppl can't be thinkers.

For most ppl emotions and the intellect are at odds with each other, which is why in most cases if a person is strong in one they'll be weak in the other. But some ppl can combine the 2 and have them compliment each other, which is rare.

It's just generalities we're speaking of... A dominant air element person can be stronger emotionally than a dominant water element person. It depends on other factors in the chart and ultimately the person itself.

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Well said, i know water signs with a sharp razor mind and air signs who blubber all over the place and cant string a sentence together or solve any simple problem, elemental analysis is is too generalised to be of much use imo

I think we have to look at the preponderance of elements in a chart. If someone has a majority of earth signs, for example, their approach to life will probably be material and practical. Many people have a balance between the four elements.

I also think it is important to delineate the functions of the different planets. "The mind" would be Mercury, emotions would be the moon. Then you really have to look at how these planets are aspected. A Cancer sun with a Gemini Mercury (domiciled) that makes a close trine to Jupiter would probably be a "water sign with a razor sharp mind." Someone with, say, the sun in Aquarius but an afflicted moon-Mercury in Pisces might have difficulty with logical thinking.

With Mercury oftentimes being in the sign before or after the sun sign, you can get mental processes that you wouldn't expect from the sun sign alone.

It is also interesting when people lack an element in their chart.

waybread said:

I think we have to look at the preponderance of elements in a chart. If someone has a majority of earth signs, for example, their approach to life will probably be material and practical. Many people have a balance between the four elements.

I also think it is important to delineate the functions of the different planets. "The mind" would be Mercury, emotions would be the moon. Then you really have to look at how these planets are aspected. A Cancer sun with a Gemini Mercury (domiciled) that makes a close trine to Jupiter would probably be a "water sign with a razor sharp mind." Someone with, say, the sun in Aquarius but an afflicted moon-Mercury in Pisces might have difficulty with logical thinking.

With Mercury oftentimes being in the sign before or after the sun sign, you can get mental processes that you wouldn't expect from the sun sign alone.

It is also interesting when people lack an element in their chart.

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well said waybread


elemental dilenations of character are pretty useless as sun sign ones

This is one of the observations i have made in my life. People say water signs have control over their emotions. I have seen some water signs behave inappropriately and make scathing remarks in social situations.

I think some one who is in touch with their emotions should infact not react based on their emotions but be able to control them.

Air on the other hand, if some one rejects them or neglects them , they tend to subconsciously retort back like children do, which makes easier for people to manipulate them. Also like children their emotions are inflexible if they happen to dislike someone they will infact maintain that quality forever, but a water sign may camouflage their dislike, play nice to get what they want and emotionally Manipulate and GUILT some one if they have to.

But when they don't have to gain anything a water sign can be insensitive. Which makes me wonder is EMOTIONAL another word for socially inappropriate.

I am an air sign and have know quite a few air and water signs to be able to tell the difference.

I can see why this is displeasing for you, but this is something i have witnessed over the years. I am an air sign and therefore i can speak for myself. I am not in touch with my emotions and have blanked them out, which has made it easier for people to emotional manipulate me or guilt me.

But having said that, i think this is a huge drawback because people have now started acknowledging the role emotional intelligence plays in any endeavor. Something that fire and water signs posses, subjective thought, intuition, gut feeling. Sensing what people want and therefore being able to maneuver their surroundings. Air lacks that personal touch, there is an air of nonchalance which can be mistaken as arrogance. I personally find this to be a huge drawback because social niceties etc don't take one too far. I also find earth signs lacking in these. Spontaneous reaction however fake they may be come across as genuine.

I think that rational thinking is equally important though. Sometimes removing yourself and objectively analyzing the situation is very important, which only air signs are capable of doing. I have seen the so called perceptive signs like scorpio discard and reject people for no rational reason on other hand befriending the wrong people for the same irrational feelings and then they wonder why they have been scarred.