Love horaries

I'm not sure if my post will be removed or not. But I was wondering if a lot of people realize that by the time you get to the point where you're asking a horary about your relationship chances are you're not going to receive a positive answer. I don't mean to sound negative but most of the horaries I've seen questioning relationships (on this and other forums as well as real life querents) give an answer that is not what the querent wants to hear.
Also wondering why people ask the same question over and over again about the same person and just wording it differently within days or weeks of the first chart.(sometimes hours, as bizarre as it sounds) It won't change the answer.
And I don't think we need to analyze the chart down to the dispositors dispositor's dispositer. Or how maybe a month from now their significator will change signs and form an aspect to the quesited and it will give a yes answer.

I agree! hmm.. i would only put on horary if i m genuinely confused, no way of getting the answer if it really bothers me.
i just read that interpreting horary is not too difficult, it is accepting the answer that is hard to swallow! ahhh.. the sagi in me is seeking for the truth but where is truth!? dont mean to whine but horary is awesome at least i m at peace with an answer!

any thoughts peep?

ah i am guilty of this but i don't post any of them on the forum. LOL
i agree that something is wrong in the relationship if you don't feel stable enough to trust that things will smooth over.
i think its the same reason those phone psychics are so popular and the majority of questions they get are about love.

we just do it for reassurance i guess. to have a tiny bit of hope that maybe the guy/girl will change (in my case the guys never did change so that proves your point hehe)
some relationships are just not stable and some people in love don't see as clearly or straight (i definitely don't! i throw all logic out the door!) and so when we are hurt, we grasp for anything to soothe the immediate pain.

one thing i do know is-no horary has ever been wrong for me. never. even if i think "no this cant be right" it ALWAYS comes to be in time. we just need to accept the horary answers we get and move on which may feel unbearable to do at the time.
it's the story as old as time. :sigh:
anyway, please just have patience with us anxious worriers who overidealize love lol

Good points you raise HeyPlayGirl. Interesting too (to me at least) that the amount of love horaries have increased, since Saturns entry into Libra....

People tend to ask questions when they are uncertain (in themselves) about something-and so, as serendipity observes, there is already a spark of negative expectation present behind the question. Unfortunately few ask advice request horaries, because the attitude re to horary (in the West) over the past few hundred years (since the Enlightenment) has been to regard the Cosmos as a mindless fortune-telling machine, capable of pointing out the past, present or future course of events but incapable of providing guidance on how those trends might be modified. This attitude about the nature of the Cosmos is very different from what is found in Vedic or Chinese astrology, and differs also from the understanding of the Cosmos found in Rennaisance, Medieval and ancient Greco/Roman astrology as well. I guess most want to know what "Fate" will "make happen" to them, what "Fate" "has in store for them", and shy away from learning from the Cosmos what attitudes they could adopt, and what actions they could undertake, in order to make their relationships work better, move toward positive outcomes, advance toward lasting happiness...

@ HeyPlayGirl :

Well said. We all want to find comfort until the pain subside and we see reason.

@ Serendipity :

I notice a lot of no answers too. However, I think you should realise that behind these nameless, faceless charts are very real people with very real emotions. As irritating and counter-productive as it seems, asking for an alternate answer and analysing things to the ninth degree is sometimes the only way people in these situations know how to work out their emotions.

If nothing else, it provides a learning tool for other like me, who are new to the art of astrology. We don't just want an answer, we want to know HOW to arrive at an answer.

@ dr farr :

Suppose I asked the Q "What should I do about X?" right now, at 1.30 pm Australian time, in Brisbane, on 21 August 2010, do you think horary will give me an answer ?

Yes, Chinese astrology does give advice and does take into account your free will (No, I don't know anything about it beyond being Chinese having g=having consulted a number of Ba Zi masters), but I feel that human beings being human beings and not gods, are for the most part incapable of seeing beyond their pain and immediate source of misery.

I saw this Ba Zi master not too long ago and he said to me, "When this is over, you will say to me that you were mad."

07.Re said:

Good points you raise HeyPlayGirl. Interesting too (to me at least) that the amount of love horaries have increased, since Saturns entry into Libra....

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i sometimes notice a trend in horaries too!
i remember a few weeks ago i saw more males posted love horaries...i dont remember what the astrological reasoning behind it was i forget now. maybe it was when mars first entered its detriment in libra i have no idea.
*eep don't bite my head off advanced astrologers im just maknig a guess!*

HeyPlayGirl said:

i saw more males posted love horaries...i dont remember what the astrological reasoning behind it was i forget now. maybe it was when mars entered it's fall in libra i have no idea.

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lol HP.... I thought of that exact reason after I read your sentence. Not to worry though, someone more experienced will confirm this (or not)

@timtams

i read ba zi too!! more into zi wei actually but its really advice oriented u think? not so real time Q&A. but so far zi wei has been pretty good for me. ba zi tells me alot about "fate" thus far, still waiting for things to happen~

I KNOW horary will give indications of what can be done, and what avoided, to facilitate any matter: this ALWAYS happens in medical horary-the answer contains also the advice for what to do about the problem (at the time)-as does decumbiture (event) charts in medical astrology; practitioners of astro-therapeutics have used the chart-contained therapeutic "suggestions" from the Cosmos, since the very beginning, as guides for their healing practice: why should it be any different in any other form of horary? Does the Cosmos "say", oh! here in medicine we'll include guidance for helping the individual suffering from the problem, but over here in a relationship question, no, we can't do so, or over here in a legal issue or business issue no, we cannot do so??
Western horary astrology dropped advice-request questions for religious reasons: such an undertaking seemed (to the Western religious mind) akin to "praying to other gods", that all requests for guidance should be directed first to priest, rabbi or minister, and secondly in prayer to God. Even Lilly himself felt compelled to "square" astrology with the prevailing religion: why do you think he titled his epoch making astrological work CHRISTIAN Astrology? Regarding the Cosmos as merely as machine (without mind, without consciousness, without its own intelligence) and approaching it "mechanically" (like a penny fortune-telling device), using it only to forecast trends and likely events, removed any possible "challenge" of ancient astrological concepts to prevailing religious conventions; and later, when the power of religion "fell", this same "mechanical Cosmos" concept allowed astrology to "fit in" (at least somewhat) with the dominant mechanistic materialist "science" which took religion's social, political and economic place. Obviously no sane person would ask a "machine" for advice!! Hence the sometimes directly stated "rule" in modern Western horary against "asking advice or guidance" in horary.
That's one reason why many people like (what amounts to) "horary" in Chinese astrology, and also in Vedic (called Prasna sastra)-those systems do not suffer from this "hang up" which Western horary has been saddled with since the Enlightenment.
Fortunately, for me, the advice-request horary has been a tried and true technique, and, of course, I care nothing for the various "rules" put forth regarding horary, only those "rules" which have proved themselves to me as workable and validated in actual practice, mean anything to me at all.

...sorry for preaching!!...

Timtams said:

@ Serendipity :

I notice a lot of no answers too. However, I think you should realise that behind these nameless, faceless charts are very real people with very real emotions. As irritating and counter-productive as it seems, asking for an alternate answer and analysing things to the ninth degree is sometimes the only way people in these situations know how to work out their emotions.

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Agreed, 100%. Humans are not perfect. We are not entirely logical, especially in matters of love. If you have the solution to being completely emotionless about love, you do not deserve it.

dr. farr said:

Fortunately, for me, the advice-request horary has been a tried and true technique, and, of course, I care nothing for the various "rules" put forth regarding horary, only those "rules" which have proved themselves to me as workable and validated in actual practice, mean anything to me at all.

...sorry for preaching!!...

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I have to speak up here - so count my vote for the "advice chart" loud and clear, as learned by dr. farr. I took his "advice about the advice" and discovered a revelation. Literally. It worked for me and I've since tried one more chart. I was absolutely astounded and remain so and can vouch that in my experience it has proved itself two out of two times. I am really grateful for that, dr. farr.

I completely agree with Dr Farr here.

My take on this is, when we look at the surface of anything - a problem, a person, an appearance, we only see that, just the surface. There are so many things that make up the person, problem ect, which make up the roots of the issue. Until we look at the roots, the surface can only be superficially altered, no real lasting change and learning can happen.

I compare this to a natal chart, I know it's horary but for ease of comparison... if we just consider a person based on their rising sign (appearance), we may never see any depth to the person, nor learn anything about the person, and hence about ourselves.

My point being, yes the universe shows us answers, but looking for the causes is slightly more work but much more rewarding. As well as helping us make lasting changes and finding new approaches to our life challenges.

Another idea, maybe people keep asking the same question over and over again, because they haven't heard the answer to the 'real' question that their unconscious is actually seeking. My reason for saying this, I had an flurry of going to tarot readers for 'surface' answers to relationship questions. One time, I asked a reader same question, he gave me an answer not to the actual question, but rather to the pain that was causing my problems - the root of my problems. He was talking to my soul, rather than my 'wanting an outcome - ego'.

NR

I'm in no way saying that people should be emotionless when it comes to relationships nor am I saying that people shouldn't ask horary questions about them. I completely understand wanting to obtain some kind of insight into a situation. What I'm saying is that I don't think people should be over analyzing a chart trying to find a way to make it a positive outcome for the querent. I don't think anyone on the forum claims to be an expert at horary but if you've asked a question and a majority of people have answered and you do not like the response I have to ask why you've asked in the first place. Obviously you are not really ready to accept the answer. (I've actually seen people become upset and a bit belligerent over responses.) I believe this is why people draw up multiple charts and start phrasing the question differently.
What I am saying is not directed at a specific person either.

However, I think you should realise that behind these nameless, faceless charts are very real people with very real emotions. As irritating and counter-productive as it seems, asking for an alternate answer and analysing things to the ninth degree is sometimes the only way people in these situations know how to work out their emotions.

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As I stated in my original post I also have real life querents who ask questions.
Yes I'm all for working out your emotions but not to the point where people are trying to tweak a chart to give a positive answer
Naturally you don't have control over what the other party says or does but you do have control over your own behavior. You can choose to do something positive for yourself and channel your emotions in that way instead of focusing on the "other".

Serendipity said:

Yes I'm all for working out your emotions but not to the point where people are trying to tweak a chart to give a positive answer

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Well you can't really control what people do, S. Everyone is at their own learning, intellectual and emotional level. If it bothers me, I just don't respond or read the post.

If it bothers me, I just don't respond or read the post.

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Agreed. I will be doing that moving forward.

dr. farr said:

I KNOW horary will give indications of what can be done, and what avoided, to facilitate any matter: this ALWAYS happens in medical horary-the answer contains also the advice for what to do about the problem (at the time)-as does decumbiture (event) charts in medical astrology; practitioners of astro-therapeutics have used the chart-contained therapeutic "suggestions" from the Cosmos, since the very beginning, as guides for their healing practice: why should it be any different in any other form of horary? Does the Cosmos "say", oh! here in medicine we'll include guidance for helping the individual suffering from the problem, but over here in a relationship question, no, we can't do so, or over here in a legal issue or business issue no, we cannot do so??
Western horary astrology dropped advice-request questions for religious reasons: such an undertaking seemed (to the Western religious mind) akin to "praying to other gods", that all requests for guidance should be directed first to priest, rabbi or minister, and secondly in prayer to God. Even Lilly himself felt compelled to "square" astrology with the prevailing religion: why do you think he titled his epoch making astrological work CHRISTIAN Astrology? Regarding the Cosmos as merely as machine (without mind, without consciousness, without its own intelligence) and approaching it "mechanically" (like a penny fortune-telling device), using it only to forecast trends and likely events, removed any possible "challenge" of ancient astrological concepts to prevailing religious conventions; and later, when the power of religion "fell", this same "mechanical Cosmos" concept allowed astrology to "fit in" (at least somewhat) with the dominant mechanistic materialist "science" which took religion's social, political and economic place. Obviously no sane person would ask a "machine" for advice!! Hence the sometimes directly stated "rule" in modern Western horary against "asking advice or guidance" in horary.
That's one reason why many people like (what amounts to) "horary" in Chinese astrology, and also in Vedic (called Prasna sastra)-those systems do not suffer from this "hang up" which Western horary has been saddled with since the Enlightenment.
Fortunately, for me, the advice-request horary has been a tried and true technique, and, of course, I care nothing for the various "rules" put forth regarding horary, only those "rules" which have proved themselves to me as workable and validated in actual practice, mean anything to me at all.

...sorry for preaching!!...

Click to expand...

You're preaching to the converted here Dr. Farr!

I have been experimenting with these "advice" charts but I would like a different perspective on them; can you point me towards some source material?
________
Michigan medical marijuana dispensary

@ bb369 :

I have not tried Zi Wei yet but I have come across a manual, written in English, teaching the art, at my state library here in Brisbane. The state library is a reference-only library so unfortunately the book can't be borrowed and it does seem too hard to understand with only a preliminary viewing of it (I'm afraid I don't have enough planets in air signs for this).

The BaZi masters I have met differ in their advice and calculations. I agree with you that they cannot or do not give specific answers, which if you are impatient like me, can be rather frustrating.

@ Sagicap :

Thanks for adding your weight to my opinion. I think it is like anything unpleasant in life. Doctor's prognosis (my last GP had me down as an anaemic MALE, even though I am FEMALE and obviously do not have anaemia), the loss of a loved one through any means (how many people have you seen being in TOTAL denial ?)...I guess we are not sure until we are sure. In the meantime, we might accused of being ungrateful for help rendered, belligerent, stubborn, unwieldy...

@ Serendipity :

There are two lots of people here, I've noticed. Those who go about horary dispassionately - and they are good in that they provide an objective view to a Q - and those who go about it as though their very life hinges on it - which I could be accused of, even though it has not disrupted my life to the extent it has others. I swing between the two.

Now, if it is horary is an intellectual exercise - and especially if it is an intellectual exercise - you should welcome all the debate and belligerence because all this debate promotes the further understanding of technique. I'll use my Doctor example.

I went to a Doctor because of suspected food allergies. Right. Advice at this point would have not actually sussed out the problem so she ordered tests, I went for them and voila, she pronounced me as an ANAEMIC MALE.

1) I am not male (I had a baby so I am pretty sure of this ) 2) The only reason she said I was anaemic was because the computer programme she was using had me down as a MALE, which was entered incorrectly.

Doctor ordered more INVASIVE tests and had I not shown my results to someone more knowledgeable, WHO SPOTTED THE PROBLEM, would have been subjected to MORE TESTS, at MORE COSTS, for very little or zero gain.

See the benefit of debate ?

@ dr. farr :

I would love to ask the cosmos for advice but I do not know enough of horary even to get a simple yes/ no answer much less a detailed one that is expected to be of any good to me.

@ NR :

I totally agree with what you are saying. The tarot card reader you came across was obviously experienced enough to know that what you were seeking was not what you were asking. Sometimes putting your question into words can be the hardest thing because you don't feel you have the right to ask it and sometimes you need someone else to ask it for you.

Btw, thanks for all the help on my chart.

A few people have completely missed the point of what I've said and have viewed it as a personal affront. So this is my last reply to the thread.

To Konrad:
Most of the advice-request material I have studied is from private and rather esoteric sources; much is from privately circulated manuscripts consisting of partial translations from Arabic; however, there are numerous examples of what amount to advice requests to be found in "Carmen Astrologicum" (interpolated translation of fragments from Dorotheus of Sidon), these being mostly in the form of Lots (Parts), and characterizing an approach the Greeks called "katarchic" astrology. Please also note that the term I have used, "advice request", is my own-this term is NOT to be found in the literature: words used in the literature meaning the same as I mean (by my term "advice horary") include "interogational" and "initiative" relating to questions to the Cosmos about "what should be done". Much additional information regarding this subject is to be found in the English-translated jyotish literature, where what I refer to as "advice requests" are frequently to be found.