Thank you for sharing. I think this sounds like an intense aspect for sure.
Do you mind if I ask what your age was when this traumatic experience happened?
Sun opposition Pluto
- Thread starter sadge
- Start date
Thank you for sharing. I think this sounds like an intense aspect for sure.
Do you mind if I ask what your age was when this traumatic experience happened?
ablindplacebo
Active member
I was 12 when someone in my household was diagnosed with bipolar, it was really intense at the time I thought it was my fault that I "triggered" it obviously I know now nothing could've prevented it. Even before that, throughout the years it seemed like my Sun got dimmer. I used to be really confident and radiate self-expression, then I noticed when I was around 7 people's opinions of me started to dominate how I perceived myself, ex. constantly getting told my voice sounds like a "girl" and if I was gay. A phoenix rising from the ashes analogy really resonates with me.
I have sun and mercury in very close orb in taurus oppo pluto in scorpio and yes its a very intense aspect.
I'm a female and no I have never been abused. And my father is not ruthless nor a bully. He is the opposite. BUT he himself has been beaten ruthlessly by his sadastic father when growing up.
But he has never beaten me or my siblings.
I'm very strong headed though which has caused a lot of power struggles between my father and I and also between "authorities". This kind of people will challenge authority figures for ex their teachers if they think the teacher is wrong for ex. They hate being controlled but also they theselves wana control people or their evironment. Either for power reasons or out of fear, pluto is the planet of fear.
For ex a mother who bluntly says "no you can absolutely not go out tonight with your friends, its not safe". A controlling mother or father.
This people will also have an amazing self-analysis ability. They can act like their own pscyho analysts and transform themselves as sun helps them to shine light on their pluto.
There is sooo much insightful stuff you can find about pluto-sun aspects when using google.
Pluto is also the planet of repulsion. It acts eithe as a magnet drawing in people, or as a repeller that repells people. The shadow side of pluto. And because pluto is like a magnet it can go the other way around, that the person "draws" bad people into their lives. Not happened to me, I'm too strong willed and don't tolorate bs.
For me having pluto in 3rd house I can some times be repulsives in my way of talking to people, trying to empower them with my own ideas etc.
This site is amazing with great key words regarding planet aspects, just pick and apply!
http://astrofix.net/2011/03/09/sunpluto-aspects/
Quote from astrofix: "
Will power. Wanting to have power over others. Wanting to be powerful. Wanting to have the power that others have. Being involved with the government – for better or worse.
Wanting a powerful position in the world. Needing to show or prove how powerful you are. Needing to show or prove your intensity of purpose. Powerful creative forces. A compulsive personality. An obsessive personality. Pitting yourself against people who are more powerful than you are. Allying yourself with powerful people".
I'm a female and no I have never been abused. And my father is not ruthless nor a bully. He is the opposite. BUT he himself has been beaten ruthlessly by his sadastic father when growing up.
But he has never beaten me or my siblings.
I'm very strong headed though which has caused a lot of power struggles between my father and I and also between "authorities". This kind of people will challenge authority figures for ex their teachers if they think the teacher is wrong for ex. They hate being controlled but also they theselves wana control people or their evironment. Either for power reasons or out of fear, pluto is the planet of fear.
For ex a mother who bluntly says "no you can absolutely not go out tonight with your friends, its not safe". A controlling mother or father.
This people will also have an amazing self-analysis ability. They can act like their own pscyho analysts and transform themselves as sun helps them to shine light on their pluto.
There is sooo much insightful stuff you can find about pluto-sun aspects when using google.
Pluto is also the planet of repulsion. It acts eithe as a magnet drawing in people, or as a repeller that repells people. The shadow side of pluto. And because pluto is like a magnet it can go the other way around, that the person "draws" bad people into their lives. Not happened to me, I'm too strong willed and don't tolorate bs.
For me having pluto in 3rd house I can some times be repulsives in my way of talking to people, trying to empower them with my own ideas etc.
This site is amazing with great key words regarding planet aspects, just pick and apply!
http://astrofix.net/2011/03/09/sunpluto-aspects/
Quote from astrofix: "
Will power. Wanting to have power over others. Wanting to be powerful. Wanting to have the power that others have. Being involved with the government – for better or worse.
Wanting a powerful position in the world. Needing to show or prove how powerful you are. Needing to show or prove your intensity of purpose. Powerful creative forces. A compulsive personality. An obsessive personality. Pitting yourself against people who are more powerful than you are. Allying yourself with powerful people".
david starling
Well-known member
With ALL Sun-oppositions, you have to develop a "frenemies" relationship with the opposing Planet. Otherwise, it becomes a case of "not being able to get enough of what you hate".
blacksun?
Well-known member
My father has this aspect.
He was born to Jewish parent in nazi occupied Amsterdam the day the nazis were beaten back at Stalingrad - so the turn of the tide in WWII fell under this aspect. His parents put him in hiding and they were promptly deported. His father survived, his mother did not. He loved and was loved by the people the took care of him during the war, and he and his father got along wel enough it seems, but his father remarried and his wife is an extremely hard (Communist) woman who has expressed regret at having my father only after he was 3 because he had already been formed.
My dad is silent on his feelings and yet they dominate everything around him.
Friedrich Nietzsche is another person who has this aspect. He felt oppressed by the entirety of Christianity and formulated the philosophy of the will to power.
waybread
Well-known member
With ALL Sun-oppositions, you have to develop a "frenemies" relationship with the opposing Planet. Otherwise, it becomes a case of "not being able to get enough of what you hate".
David, I so strongly disagree. I am an incest survivor. So thank you, I had far, far more of the hard edge of a Plutonian relationship than I ever wanted.
I am happy to see that not everyone with natal sun opposite Pluto experiences the really troubled side of this aspect, but then no astrological signature works 100%.
What allowed me some healing was (a) psychotherapy with a clinical psychologist, and (b) eventually realizing that I am all of the planets in my horoscope. If I attract ruthless Plutonians into my life, it's because I haven't owned my own Pluto nature.
This I try to do.
But it's not a pretty sight.
Waybread....thank you for being brave enough to share your story. I respect you for doing this and i want you to know that it adds enormous value. Most people here wouldn't have half of your guts to be this honest. I hope all of the readers here recognize the lesson right now: there is always a reason to reach for empathy. Always.
I understood there was a significance to a sun/pluto combination in a natal chart. Both planets are just too powerful. But the contributions in this thread have helped all of us to formulate a better understanding of how the energies can manifest. A lot of you shared deeply personal stories and allowed us to glimpse some of the most personal part of your lives. It will help all of us our journey to become better people and astrologers.
Thank you.
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david starling
Well-known member
I must have used the wrong term, because I meant exactly what you said: "Owning" your own nature, including the influence of the opposing Planet.
David, I understood what you meant. Oppositions often do play out via relationships, either with people or the world "out there" because of the polarization. So your description did make sense on a psychological level of how one needs to recognize a polarization within himself, whether that is described as "owning it" or becoming "frenemies" with both forces, it all means the same thing. An interesting way to observe the dynamic of oppositions is through synastry and how different planetary energies feed one another through an opposition between people. For example, oppositions between benefic or malefics will create an entirely different dynamic between the two individuals. (This is why I find synastry so interesting....it's a way for individuals to "see" their own inner natal charts be pulled to the surface for better understanding against other energies.) In this case, we're talking about Sun and Pluto, to intense forces that are always worthy of deeper understanding.
Thanks for your active participation, friend.
blacksun?
Well-known member
I see it rather as being honed by the planets.
A Pluto opposition Sun clearly creates enormous depth.
A person will come to act out of a deeper necessity than others.
aquarius7000
Well-known member
The only energy that Aquarius opposes is that of Leo, so an Aquarius Sun cannot be opposed by a Pluto in Virgo.
The signs of Aquarius and Sagittarius sextile eachother, so, again, an Aquarius Sun cannot square a Mars in Sagittarius.
That truly is an opposition.
blacksun?
Well-known member
Maybe this is true in Vedic astrology, I have no idea, but it doesn't apply here. In Western astrology aspects are defined by angles.
So if Mars is on 0 Sagittarius and Sun is on 29 Aquarius, that is a 89 degree angle, which is a tight square.
Sun on 29 Aquarius opposes the first degrees of Virgo as well as the last of Leo.
waybread
Well-known member
David, thanks for your clarification.
One thing about people who go through the Pluto Wars is that you can see yourself as a victim-- and often with all the agreement about it in the world. But because Pluto is often a very ruthless, bullying sort of energy, the "poor-me" victim has to be willing to stand her ground, scream back at the universe, and find that strength that exists only because your back has been pushed against the wall-- beyond normal bearing.
Sadge, burying and suppressing horrible events is oftentimes a very sensible way to handle them. When I got into therapy and went through a lot of cathartic experiences, at times they were so painful that it hurt to breathe. At the same time, I was a mother of two young children, I had a demanding job, and a husband who was under-employed and unhappy about that. I didn't have the luxury of committing myself to a residential mental health treatment program, which is what my psychologist recommended.
Pluto as the god of the underworld also relates to things that are dead and buried-- and probably should stay there.
I think the most productive use of sun-Pluto is the idea of self (sun) transformation (Pluto.) It is the energy of the phoenix, who puts itself into the fire, to later emerge in embryonic form from the ashes. It is the energy of the seedling, emerging from the composted soil.
I'm a great believer in choice-centered astrology. If your chart hands you a lemon, make lemonade.
Oh, and also a believer in strict anonymity on astrology Internet forums.
One thing about people who go through the Pluto Wars is that you can see yourself as a victim-- and often with all the agreement about it in the world. But because Pluto is often a very ruthless, bullying sort of energy, the "poor-me" victim has to be willing to stand her ground, scream back at the universe, and find that strength that exists only because your back has been pushed against the wall-- beyond normal bearing.
Sadge, burying and suppressing horrible events is oftentimes a very sensible way to handle them. When I got into therapy and went through a lot of cathartic experiences, at times they were so painful that it hurt to breathe. At the same time, I was a mother of two young children, I had a demanding job, and a husband who was under-employed and unhappy about that. I didn't have the luxury of committing myself to a residential mental health treatment program, which is what my psychologist recommended.
Pluto as the god of the underworld also relates to things that are dead and buried-- and probably should stay there.
I think the most productive use of sun-Pluto is the idea of self (sun) transformation (Pluto.) It is the energy of the phoenix, who puts itself into the fire, to later emerge in embryonic form from the ashes. It is the energy of the seedling, emerging from the composted soil.
I'm a great believer in choice-centered astrology. If your chart hands you a lemon, make lemonade.
Oh, and also a believer in strict anonymity on astrology Internet forums.
aquarius7000
Well-known member
Blacksun, That is true in serious and true Astrology.
I do not do Vedic Astrology. I do Western Astrology. Please pick up a good book and read it thoroughly and then you should understand. I have been practising Astrology for over a dozen years.
david starling
Well-known member
Aqua7K, are you of the opinion that an entire Sign provides opposition? In my case, for example, I have Moon and Venus tightly conjunct in Aquarius, and both Saturn and Pluto in opposite Sign Leo, Inconjunct. But neither Saturn nor Pluto are technically in Angular opposition to Moon and Venus. So, should I consider it a true opposition regardless of orb, based on opposite Signs alone? (Hope you don't mind the abbreviated user name--no offense meant.)
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aquarius7000
Well-known member
David, I think we had this discussion before too. What I am trying to say here, and this has nothing to do with Western or Vedic, or Modern and Traditional, but just with logic and some good understanding of Astrology; as we always keep saying, signs denote energy. In my example, the energies of the signs of Aquarius and Leo (or Libra and Aries, or Sagittarius and Gemini...) stand in opposition to each other because they lie 180 degrees apart. As we all know, 180 degrees shows a linear (line) and the pairs I mentioned above, make that linear amgles with each other. Now, logically, if the signs of Aquarius and Leo are linearly opposite each other, then, conclusively, the planets in those signs will also lie in opposition to eschother. How can Virgo be in opposition to Aquarius? Or there planets in those signs? Always look at the signs first, not simply at the red lines between any two planets! That is why we always say that Aquarius is all about we and the least ego whilst Leo is all about ego and I. After all, the planet most different to the hot Sun is cold and rigid Saturn!
david starling
Well-known member
I'm inclined toward Sign/Rulership Astrology myself, so I tend to agree with you. But, many Astrologers place much greater importance on the Angles, and some have even abandoned the Signs altogether. As a believer in balance, and the Golden Mean, I therefore personally give the advantage to the Signs, but definitely consider the Angles very important. So, Sign-oppositions, squares, conjunctions,etc., tell me about the actual relationships between Rulers in those Signs. And, the smaller the Orb, the greater the strength of those relationships.
aquarius7000
Well-known member
David,
In the example taken earlier on the thread here, neither the logic of angles nor the signs holds good. That is the sad part. So, not sure what "golden mean" you are talking about, or I perhaps I am not able to see that modern logic (feel rather old in my bones
). However, if you can understand it, then that is what matters in the first place.
But after a day's work, I am not up to it to clarify something as clear as that. I am not going to blame Modern Astrology, but this is hardly even Astrology anymore. That is just my opinion. Of course, you are right. Have fun
In the example taken earlier on the thread here, neither the logic of angles nor the signs holds good. That is the sad part. So, not sure what "golden mean" you are talking about, or I perhaps I am not able to see that modern logic (feel rather old in my bones
). However, if you can understand it, then that is what matters in the first place. But after a day's work, I am not up to it to clarify something as clear as that. I am not going to blame Modern Astrology, but this is hardly even Astrology anymore. That is just my opinion. Of course, you are right. Have fun
"Aquarius" has the least ego? Because of Saturn?
Is that so?
Hmmmm......very interesting.....