A Virgo Sun can have a somewhat delicate constitution, so yes, self-care is important with this sign. Also Virgo gives nervous energy that reacts badly to stress, and is prone to psychosomatic ailments.
That´s so interesting, but what confuses me still is how that relates to Mercury? You know I like to discuss the rulers
so Saturn always made more sense to me than Mercury for virgo. Maybe my image is too influenced by gemini, but what would you atribute Virgo´s sensitivity to? Are they especially perceptive, or super connected with their brain?
One of my best friends is a Virgo, as are her triplet sisters, and none are very cerebral. They all have some chronic stuff going on, from body weight issues in both directions to hormone disruption, but I just can´t make sense of it as a Virgo thing.
Yes. Saturn conjunct Moon can indicate a number of things, most of which seem to fit.
Lack of self-worth, problems with emotional expression, feeling weighed down by responsibilities, separation from mother either physically or emotionally, a need for a stable home, difficult relationships with women, controlling mother. Yes a restriction on his relationship with his mother is shown here.
This aspect can also give a faithful and reliable person who is responsible. Yes a Taurus Moon craves comfort and security, and Saturn placed there would be a restriction. Saturn in Taurus gives a hard working person, tenacious, but tightly controlled feelings.
This is so sad, as often with Saturn, and unfortunately he never lived to see his Saturn return make things better. I even wonder if it would have been better to give music a shot once that passed, since maybe the hard work would have paid off?
Also his need for stability must have upset him a lot as a child, and the mother again, really, I start to wonder how her chart must look and what kind of person she was in general.
Could this placement have made his work ethic? Maybe instead of ambition he had this internal standard? Also interesting is the repression or separation from feelings. That could have contributed to his drug issues, but stands weirdly against his job as an actor where feelings are his bread and butter.
The Aq IC is showing a childhood/ family life that was isolated. Also showing an unsettled and chaotic family. Perhaps in terms of his feeling expression, he was a study in opposites. Someone who repressed feelings then over expressed them. Flip side of the same coin. His intense and frantic use of drugs is telling us that something was very wrong on an emotional level.
That fits his Moon/Saturn conjunction as well, so there was a lot of saturnian influence on his deepest self. Maybe that made him a pessimist?
I agree with your comment on his drug use, looked like he was either insanely addicted or really tried to push down a ton of feelings. Since Saturn rules inferiority and responsibility he might have felt like he should have done more for others, from his family who relied on him financially to his humanitarian causes in general.
Weirdly it also makes sense again with his Moon concerning acting... that´s such a paradoxal mix of characteristics, the expressiveness plus the repression. Did he feel responsible for other people´s feelings too?
Makes me think of a Moon in 12h person maybe, or Joaquin with Saturn in Cancer. I can´t help but hate their Mom for this actually
those kids deserved sooooo much better.
If we read it in a family context, maybe the mother herself felt overwhelmed with responsibility? She had a huge family and little means after all...
I think Taurus is important for singing talent, and unfortunately he has Saturn placed in Taurus. I agree with his Venus in Libra, and also Pisces in the 5h of creativity, would give some musical talent. Perhaps it wasn’t enough in a very competitive Hollywood, and/or his drug use was interfering with his talent.
Since Taurus is related to the 2h traditionally, would you say that it impacted his karmic gifts overall?
It´s sad that whatever prevented it overshadowed the rest of his chart, since he was such an artistic person.
Concerning his Venus, it´s in the 12h, which could have allowed him to tune into the universal beauty, this should also have contributed to that kind of talent and tact in general. Here is an interesting excerpt on that placement :
Venus in the 12th adversely aspected can signify indulgence with alcohol or drugs, which can also be hidden from all the nearby people. Alternatively, it would attract lovers with such kind of problems, which could also start spreading to the owner of the chart. This does not necessarily involve substance problems and getting addicted, but even nurturing the significant other and being near him while he is in trouble can definitely be an issue for the native itself. Such a placement can easily make the chart owner to get lost in love and finding it difficult to keep his own identity while being with his partner. This can let people take advantage of the native, especially when he is feeling loved. During the native’s childhood, love as a concept could have been criminalized by the surroundings. Thus, the person has linked affection and love with being forbidden or immoral, and it is this exact way of thinking that makes him to tend towards hiding his emotions and keeping his private life away from the lights of the community.
I find this fits some of the rumours about River. On the set of My Own Private Idaho there was supposedly a nonchalance about drugs, especially heroin, and many costars were said to use it casually. One of them was his rumoured then boyfriend/lover Keanu Reeves.So both the secret holding of drugs and affairs, plus their connection make sense.
A darker rumour that I hope is not true was the sexual abuse of the children in the sect his family belonged to, but even if that was the case, hopefullly he escaped that.
If someone has a 12th house Venus, it is quite possible that he is unaware both of his beauty and of the impact that this might have on other people. The 12th house is a blind spot, it is the things that we have inside us and cannot quite understand because we are looking outside. Furthermore, this tendency can be created because of lack of nurturing during the childhood; the parents might have not paid attention to make the child feel beautiful and understand its beauty – and the concept of beauty generally. Thus, when reaching an adult age, the 12th house still remains a blind spot, making the native have wrong perception of his own beauty. Furthermore, as the 12th house is traditionally ruled by Neptune, the effect it creates when materializing is an ethereal type of beauty, which is promising even if not apparent. This can attract through osmosis all type of people, who are intrigued by the idea to uncover what exactly makes the native beautiful and understand this subconscious attraction that it creates. Of course, psychic vampires are also to be of the first to be attracted as the native is a usually an easy victim- unless its 12 house is supported by aspect or planets that indicate protection.
That quote fits him perfectly, and ties in with his Neptune in the Ascendant. I´m afraid that made him especially interesting to the toxic hollywood environment.
Concerning his Jupiter in the 12h this is from the same source and really fits him so well, especially at the end of his life :
Such a placement will make the person be an altruist and a dreamer, frequently indulging in visions of utopian societies where personal benefit does not matter. No matter how wonderful such ideas sound, the native with such a placement is advised to always keep one foot on the ground. His philosophical approach of universal love may be theoretically correct, but it is always better to keep a trace of common reality. In fact, a stable basis on reality can be of great aid to expand towards alternative realities; the best way to jump to the skies is to have stable ground under you.
When Jupiter is residing in the 12th house, the individual should be careful to not allow the planet expand any possible “martyr syndromes” that can dwell deep in his mind. His self-sacrifice tendencies for others can often help other people, but it would be quite wrong to constantly create similar situations, just to feel being of use. In the end, this can lead to being taken advantage of, or elsehow self-destruct – even if Jupiter is well-aspected.
That makes me think of his helpfulness to his family and his outspokenness about his causes.
Yes we have not talked much about his father, but he and his marriage are there in River’s chart as you describe very well. The Sun represents River’s father and the Moon represents River’s mother.
Virgo Sun conjunct Mars is part of a t-square to the Moon/Saturn conjunction. River’s father represented by this Virgo Sun with issues around being critical, aggressive, and willful with a Taurus Moon wife, restricted by her need for security and material things. A 10h Sun shows us that River’s father was with him in a past life, as was his mother (7h Moon). So the family disfunctionality has been reenacted for many past lives Sun conjunct Mars is showing both a father and child with aggression issues.
It´s so sad that this pattern continued and most likely didn´t have a proper resolution in his life. For nomadic hippies his parents seem oddly like a conservative clichee, the domineering husband and materialistic wife
I´m curious about two earthy people and their relationship with resources, first renouncing them and later using their children to provide. It´s interesting to see another, less sweet part of River too.
And yes, most excellent observation Mia, Dad is a part of River’s Nodal Axis, and Mom forms a square to it. The Sun/Mars is conjunct River’s South Node, so we can see that River was pulled back into old ways. Dad was a part of those old ways. Planets conjunct the south node can feel almost like powerful sub-personalites. The Sun and Mars would indicate episodes of ego and aggressiveness that seem to come out of no where. Also we can see that Mom and Dad served to pull River away for his North Node, his soul purpose. But despite this, his early childhood did contribute to his soul progress.
I love to read about the SN/NN axis, and your comment is a great illustration of his relationship with his family in general, especially since he seemed to have "fled" it without a good sense of separation and just brought negative pattern with him where he went. I wonder what shift occurred so that what helped him early on held him back later.
Speaking about Mars, I´ve read that ignoring our mars or repressing it can lead to depression, and since his was not only related to performing/leadership, but also his public self there might have been a psychological need for a creative public image. That must have made the separation from acting and failure in music even more wounding.
I´ve come back to my favourite source for the Nodes and I hope you´ll forgive the excessive quotes, but I just couldn´t cut anything out, since it ringsso true with my own experience and seems to fit River to the letter. Also, it mirrors what you´ve written and confirms the Saturn/Moon energy :
It’s a major part of what they’re here to do. Their life experience is dominated by the relationship—’good’ or ‘bad—with their parents; their interpretation, or navigation, of what the parents thought of them, will define what happens to them, more so than for most people (unless you’re looking at someone with strong Cancer/Capricorn, and/or Moon/Saturn placements).
If you also see a strong aspect between Moon/Saturn in the chart of someone with a 4/10 nodal axis, you’re seeing the karma of the chart personified, and it will indicate how intensely the individual is involved in parental rules and ideas about how life ‘ought’ to go. Further, the individual ‘allows’ the parent/s to define him or her, and has a difficult time separating from parental definitions.
If you have a chart with this Nodal axis, take a look at the rest of your planets and houses to see if an overall family-related theme is indicated. This axis is concerned with traditional values, taking care of others, nurturing, making a home, and, of course, family in all its varieties.
You might find, with this Nodal axis, that you are somehow ‘chosen’ in the family to carry on traditions or be encouraged to leave the family in order to be better able to support them financially. Your response to this sense of engrained ‘duty’ might be enthusiastic or not, depending on the rest of the chart and how strongly you believe the messages handed down to you.
First-born sons, for example, with this Nodal axis, make perfect ‘hooks’ for the rest of the family to hang their expectations on regarding being ‘just like dad,’ as do first-born daughters who are turned into ‘mom.’
Now more precisely for a NN in Aquarius in the 4th :
Leo on the South Node here might hold the North Node back through a lack of self-belief. I’ve found that Leo South Node people often have to be pushed to do the thing they’re good at, that will get them the most fame or help them define themselves—it’s as though they’re shying away from the strong ego you just know glows inside the bushel basket they’re hiding their unique selves under.
North Node in Aquarius’ role is to be unique, though, and to do that, he might just have to break away from the family entirely. That decision will depend on how authoritarian are the people raising him, and whether or not they treat him well, or make him follow mindless rules that break his spirit and exist only to force compliance from someone who needs to breathe fresh, open-minded air.
Attitudes toward authority really suck in this nodal axis until the individual becomes an authority figure or makes peace with the parent he thinks was trying to squash his individuality or deny him freedoms other signs either don’t need or take for granted are theirs as a birth-right.
But you get the point. The South Node in Leo here isn’t interested in what his father or other authority figure has to say if the father is a windbag (and yes, I’m using that term to remind us of Ouranos’ association with the sky). Authority figures are what Leo ‘remembers’ being, or has already developed an understanding of.
The goal now is (ideally, in spite of Uranus as its ruler) to represent the family and its ideas about how things are supposed to be, fairly and with awareness. Aquarius is, at its best, a very aware sign; it knows because it understands, but that equation requires empathy, not pure intellectualism. You can’t think your way through everything; learning to balance Leo’s huge heart with Aquarius’ potentially huge intellect is the way to work with this nodal axis.
Interesting how River personally seemed to either undervalue or invalidate his acting abilities and moved away from them. Perhaps pushing him towards the stage was not so negative of his parents after all.
The heart + intellect makes me think of his activism again.
And as you said, moving away from the Sun was part of his urges.
Your asteroid comments are very interesting. I don’t know much about them, but your comments are consistent with the rest of the chart. With the easy aspects of Mercury to the Moon in River’s chart, it does appear that River perhaps acted as a surrogate parent to his younger siblings. I also agree with your comments about River’s androgyny. He has 7 planets in feminine planets, indicating a gender switch in this life.
Interesting Moon/Mercury connection, I´ll look more closely at that in other charts in the future.
Ha, so I´ll count River as a honorary girl
Funny how he was idolized for being so handsome when he had so much femininity.
Yes I agree totally. His SN in the 10 house is showing past lives with a focus on career, but in this life his home life and inner psychology were supposed to be important. He was to have a good work/life balance.
The Nodal Axis is about balance, not either/or. We are to take the good of the SN and integrated it with our NN path. So yes his 10h success was related to his past lives, but in this life there was to be a balance with career and home and inner psychology.
I like that interpretation a lot, since I find that I´m quite attached to my SN myself and loosing that would hurt a lot. I wonder about the balance act people with that axis have to manage once they go into the most 10h position ever when they court fame. Interestingly Mick Jagger has the same dichotomy, only he has the signs reversed compared to River with Leo 4h. He isn´t known for a stable home life but more for half made and left behind families everywhere, recently with his new baby on the way!
I also find it strange how the anchor of the chart and the place we start in during our life becomes also something so far removed that I feel it becomes a lifelong conquest to get there and secure it.
I think this is an excellent point Mia. I agree, there must have been something wrong, he was not satisfied with his acting career, or why pursue a music career and be so bitterly disappointed when it did not take off? And why they frantic and intense drug abuse. Something was very wrong.
Thank you, and I agree but I wish that someone was there or something had made him realize while on the other hand, when someone represses their feelings that´s exactly what they avoid...
From a karmic perspective, the 9h is about karma around beliefs, ethics, a search for meaning, spirituality. He had worked to support the family from early childhood, and never stopped to think about himself or life meaning perhaps. If he had, his life would not have gone off the rails as it did.
I think I answered this question above, but if not, ask some more questions.
Yes, that makes perfect sense and what do you think about the association of the 9h with education? He was deprived of it to a large extent because of his lifestyle early on, and perhaps more training would have given him more confidence in his acting or more options outside of hollywood.
Yes, thank you, but I´ll probably ask more because I just love the nodal axis discussion especially
But a lot of his charm is still present in pictures (I´ll indulge a little
) :
, but still had a relationship with his family as adult, so I wonder if Aquarius on the 4th cusp means that they were simply eccentric, not abusive?
, he really brought characters to life to the point where they are unforgettable.
Also, you mention the theme of poisoning quite a lot, and haven´t mentioned any murder victim aspects, so that kind of accident might fit the best?
