Saturn in the 7th, but as one of the significators

Hi!

There's this guy from work that I like... It seems he likes me too, but he has a girlfriend... She is probably the reason why most of the charts I drew asking about the possibility of being with him have not been valid (Moon VOC, Ascendant too early, Moon via combusta etc). Now, after spending a little bit more time with him (and I think I got a pretty good non-verbal confirmation of him liking me), I got this chart who has Saturn in the 7th. The Ascendant is Aquarius, so Saturn is my significator. Does this make the chart invalid as well?

Here's the chart:


If Moon is also my significator (and not the girlfriend), it would seem both of my sigs are in his house. I guess it is fair to say I'm smitten (even though both Moon and Saturn are in the sign of fall for Sun = him). He's Sun in Sagittarius, in my 10th house (coworker). Both of us are pretty strong and confident, in the sign of triplicity and angular. I'm thinking the girlfriend is Venus in his 4th (though I don't know if they are living together or not), in an applying conjunction to the Sun = him. Not looking very good for me, huh? Especially since there are no aspects between my sigs and his. Well, not for 12 degrees until Moon sextiles Sun...
Speaking of the Moon, I'm a bit confused about the last aspect it makes. Should I consider the trine to Jupiter or to Neptune? I'm asking because I know horary works with the traditional planets.

How does the chart look to you? Is there any hope that we will become a couple eventually? I don't know what to think anymore. It feels like the answer is yes, that we'd be good for each other, but this whole thing has huge potential of blowing up in my face.

I'd say he's not interested due to the reception between you (Sun's fall).

Astrology aside, it's a pretty horrible situation you're getting yourself into.
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Lovely Wendie99

I was under the impression that if a significator is in a sign that is another significator's fall or detriment, the first significator somehow dislikes or disregards the second significator. So if I'm Sun in Aries, I dislike Venus and Saturn. From your post I see you know differently. So which is it?
As I said in the previous post, I have reason to believe he IS interested, because of the way he acts when I'm around. On the contrary, I usually act like I couldn't care less about him, that is if I don't avoid him in the first place...

The debate is out on the reception question. I initially learnt from John Frawley and he says it's the way you are saying, I heard about the way I'm using now and I find it is more accurate. Test it for yourself though and find the one which suits you best.

Again, what you see and what is happening can be two very different things. I don't know you or the guy but from this chart, I'd say he's not interested in a relationship. Maybe he does find you attractive but remember he already has a girl and if it was that bad, would he be with her? It could even be just harmless flirting; sometimes guys just like to flirt, especially if you're pretty!
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He blushes, Konrad. How often does a man blush while flirting harmlessly with a pretty girl? (and no, he's not a teenager, he's in his 30s)

His 5H ruler Jupiter is conjunct the Ascendant, my cusp, and it's in my house... I might just as well be searching for clues to support my delusion, but please understand it would be so much easier if I thought he's not interested. Then I'd be able to accept defeat gracefully and move the hell on. But now I'm just hung up.

I'm sure he blushes but, personally and from the chart, that doesn't mean he's going to leave his girlfriend for you.

Yes, from the chart it looks like he is sexually attracted to you but I'm sure you want a little more than that and I don't see it in this chart.

I don't think defeat comes into it, why not chill out on him and relax? Good things come when you stop obsessing over them. I'm sure there are plenty of great guys around and you'll notice them once you stop looking so hard.
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You are right, he's not going to leave his girlfriend, not in the next 3-6 months anyway. The chart is clear on that, at least.

Thank you for your time and input!

Ahh, the endless question on reception and how to interpret it.
Konrad you think Frawley's use of reception is incorrect? I mean from reading these posts it sounds like this guy does have a crush on QoS and perhaps the Sun is in Libra's fall because he's not good for her (has girlfriend). What do you think? I've just recently started looking at reception the way you're doing it now but I haven't drawn any conclusions yet. Also, do you have a strong Sagittarius influence in your chart? You're a straight shooter
QoS, I think all the other charts you did where you had VOC moon or via combusta were trying to tell you something.

I have found Frawley's reception to be less accurate than the method I currently use. As I've said, the guy may find her attractive, that's in the chart but he's not going to leave his girl for her. You know it is even possible to find someone physically attractive but to despise their persona.

From this chart, I don't see anything happening between them. I find it strange also that the girl says she acts like she couldn't care less about him, why do that if you like him? Maybe that's why he receives her so badly. He finds her attractive physically but she makes him feel rotten by acting that way. That's all conjecture though.

Indeed, i have Sagittarius rising, with Venus conjunct the cusp, Neptune and Uranus there too and my moon in Aries trining the Asc. My chart is in my profile if you're really interested.
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Hi Queen of Scalpels

well yOu are more interested in him than him being interested in you because saturn ruler of you 1st house is in 7th meaning that you are following his path.
you want to have his ruler aspecting your 1st or Moon (unless the quested is being ruled by Moon)
so
Sun/Saturn do not aspect
Moon/sun no aspect (moon sextiles venus after she squares Mercury) nothing significant
even if we take him as 5th house Mercury is separating from Saturn and moon is squaring Mercury NOT A GOOD SIGN. and you may know 5th houses rule romances in general.

So uh nope .. no romances here..
Who is interested in whom? You are! because you are in his 1st house

He maybe seeing someone cause Venus/Sun are very close... even thought they are separating ...

cheers
T

The Moon (his sig, ruler of the 6th) separates from your sig (Saturn) and applies in a square to Mercury in the 12th. The 12th is the house of all things hidden, so that obviously talks about your motive of him to leave his current girlfriend.

I don't think this situation will work out because Saturn isn't applying to anything (that's you) and the Moon (it co-rules you too) separates from you indicating past contact, not future contact. The last consideration goes to the square with Mercury in the 12th which is kind of a ****** aspect because Mercury rules tricks and flip-flappiness of all sorts.

Other than that, unless you want to end up on TV with Tiger Woods--there are plenty of men on the planet who don't have girlfriends. Find one. SHEESH. What is it with women hating other women?

Catatonia

Catatonia, may I ask why you've used the Moon as a sig for the quesited in this question?
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Konrad said:

Catatonia, may I ask why you've used the Moon as a sig for the quesited in this question?

Click to expand...

He's a co-worker. If he were her boss I'd have used the 10th, if he were her superior in any way without being her boss I'd have used her 11th. The 7th is used for people you don't know. People in business partnerships have to go beyond "co-worker" status. Let's say we have our own business, Konrad, I'd use the 7th for you if I were asking a horary about you. However, if you just work with me in the same company, I'm using the 6th for you.

If you look closely, you'll see that both the querent (1st, ruled by Saturn) and the quesited (6th ruled by the Moon) are both in Libra (ruled by Venus). It's of my opinion that that colors the question and using the correct significators, even though it's a relationship question, is of absolute necessity.

I've always used the 6th as servant or person I've hired to do work for me, co-workers are 7th house as is any question pertaining to relationships. Yours is a different way to look at it but not one I would consider using, especially when the answer is given by the traditional 1st/7th house method.
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Lovely Wendie99

Hi all and thank you for your answers.

Well, to be honest, I didn't hope we will be together any time soon. But I do have this gut feeling that something will happen between us. Yes, I know that I am the one who's more interested and I dislike that.
I met him 3 months ago, that's when I drew the first chart who had an early Ascendant and VOC Moon. After that I couldn't help myself and I asked more questions, so the invalid charts had to refer to this as well. This chart, which seems to be valid, though not very optimistic indeed, is after 3 months from the first and was brought on by the fact that I received confirmation that he likes me as a woman, not just as a friend or coworker. I wanted to know how I stand now and what is the future outlook.

"I find it strange also that the girl says she acts like she couldn't care less about him, why do that if you like him?"

Because it is too painful to put myself on the line and to be around him, when I know he is with someone else. I can't openly pursue a man who belongs to someone else, even if not legally. I did my best to repress my feelings, but I haven't been very successful at that. Having these feelings is a source of moral conflict for me.
You did offer some food for thought, Konrad, regarding what would take for him to leave his girlfriend. People stay committed for all sorts of reasons, not necessarily that the relationship is what they always wanted. I stayed in my last LTR 2 years longer than I should have, and I did leave because of someone else. It definitely takes more than finding someone attractive to leave the one you're with, he or she has to show some interest, which I haven't done.
On the MR - I am relatively new to horary, so I am not yet confident enough to experiment with other methods other than the traditional ones. A little detail there: at some point I thought to myself that if we were to be a couple, I might at times be embarrased to be seen with him. I can see how Frawley's rule applies, not saying yours doesn't - who knows how he perceives me in his head?

Catatonia,
I never said I hate other women. But I have an Aries Mars and simply prefer men with hairy chests and a scalpel in their hand (like the guy in question - we're both surgeons). Regarding the discussion about him being represented by the 6th house - well, yes, he is a coworker, but we are not exactly equal. We're both residents, but he is more experienced and will be a specialist soon. I respect him a lot professionally, so his presence in my 10th house does not surprise me.

Cat

6fh house is for employees not co-workers.. co-workers are 7th house
cause they dont depend on querent

Cheers
T

I'd still like to ask you guys about that last aspect Moon makes, the trines to Jupiter and Neptune. What do you think about that?
As for the end of the matter, my 4th house is empty, and its ruler Mercury is in my 11th house of hopes and his 5th house of romance. I find it intriguing that Mercury will become retro (in fact it was in its shadow period at the time I asked the question). Maybe has to do with me reconsidering my relationship ethics?

umm End of the matter for relationships is 10th house .. 4th from 7th

Ohhh right... So the 10th, where him and the girlfriend are. I guess it makes sense. He has the final word. Especially since I have chosen a passive role in this. However, the ruler Jupiter is in my house, on the angle. And Moon will trine it. Hopefully 3 months from now the horary will show some improvement.

Thank you, Tikana!

End of the matter is mostly used in trial or contest horaries. I don't really see it as being needed anywhere else unless the main sigs don't give a definitive answer, yours do though.

As for the Moon trining Jupiter. It is an aspect that is so far off (over 15 degrees) that it is not considered in this reading.
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