What makes cooks and chefs?

I have asked this question before in Skyscript, but I am not getting sufficient feedback: http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8217

So basically, in traditional texts, what are the significators for cooks and chefs?

My current hunch is a well-dignified and/or well-placed Mars, in harmonious aspect with Venus. The reason is because cooking involves the skilful use of knives and heat, both of which are signified by Mars (Mars -> iron and fire). However, support from Venus may be needed, as Venus gives the ability to make things pleasant to the senses, in this case taste.



Opinions?

Larxene said:

I have asked this question before in Skyscript, but I am not getting sufficient feedback: http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8217

So basically, in traditional texts, what are the significators for cooks and chefs?

My current hunch is a well-dignified and/or well-placed Mars, in harmonious aspect with Venus. The reason is because cooking involves the skilful use of knives and heat, both of which are signified by Mars (Mars -> iron and fire). However, support from Venus may be needed, as Venus gives the ability to make things pleasant to the senses, in this case taste.



Opinions?

Click to expand...

William Lilly sort of gives a sliding scale for what happens when Mars is significator of profession, but they all have in common physical or manual labor, or labor near fire.

He says that a well dignified Mars (he even goes so far as to imply that Mars is in sect) indicates a war hero or a general. If well dignified but out of sect, a soldier, horseman etc. If only decently dignified (perhaps having only a minor dignity) it represents less glitzy Martial careers; athletes, metal workers and engineers.

Strangely, it's the weak Mars which indicates cooks, placed in the same category as those who do manual labor, thieves and criminals.

My thought would be a prominent Venus, Taurus/Virgo, 4H/2H (food, "tangibles", the senses, service to others). Leo might also be a good indicator because it adds flair/creativity, and Cancer which likes to nurture. I like your idea of aspects to Mars from Venus, too, but I don't think they need to be "easy" ones.

Julia Child has Mercury/Venus conjunct in Virgo (Gemini Asc), Mars in Virgo, Moon in Libra (ruled by Venus) and Sun in Leo. These occur in 4H/5H, and Cancer rules 2H. This is somewhat superficial, her chart is really neat, but that fits the pattern so far.

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Child,_Julia

I agree Mars is important because it can distinguish someone who is a connoisseur or just enjoys good food, vs. someone who wants to create good food.

Does anyone have other charts to look at? It's difficult to find ones with birth times.

I know someone who was considering pursuing a career in food service and is prideful about his cooking skills. Whenever he prepares a dish it has to "steal the show" so to speak. He has Virgo Sun/Mercury conjunct in 4H, trine Mars in Cap, opposing Jupiter; Libra Moon/Venus conjunct in 5H square Mars, Cancer on 2H cusp. Mercury is chart ruler.

(Historical reference: Vedic astrology has given cooks and chefs to Venus since ancient times)
As one could consider cooking (professional chefs) an art form, I also have considered Venus the likely prime significator for cooks and chefs (also for skill in cooking even if not on a professional basis)

Thank you, sworm. I saw that passage before and posted it in the skyscript thread. One can reasonably assume that Lilly follows from and expands on Ptolemy, who also similarly chose Mars as the significator of cooks. (The passage is in that thread).

On the other hand, we have Maternus, who chose Venus as the significator for cooks. There is a similarity with Lilly in that Venus in a dejected house (weak and unfavourable) signified cooks.

Then there is another Maternus passage where Mercury and the Sun are together giving cooks...but of the unfortunate kind.

It seems that for these two astrologers, the culinary profession was a low-class calling. Perhaps that is a matter of cultural perceptions.



Flapjacks, I don't disagree with the use of signs, but in the tradition that I am studying the signs are given resources by the planets, so the nature of the planets would more strongly decide whether one becomes a cook or not. Taurus, I am inclined to agree, because it is the sign of Venus.

But Virgo is Mercury's sign...maybe this will make the person good at measuring the ingredients and be flexible with his hands, but to have the aesthetics I think Venus's influence is needed. So perhaps Venus in Virgo in aspect with Mercury, both receiving each other and having some dignities is one possibility. It is important to remember that Venus is in fall in Virgo, so support from Mercury is necessary.



Thank you, dr. farr. Maybe at the highest level it is an art form, but at the ordinary level I think it is a matter of making food taste pleasant and good, and having the ability to prepare and cook the ingredients. Venus helps with the first, Mercury or Mars helps with the second. Tentatively, this means that if these planets are in harmony with each other and at least one is well-placed, cooking is a potential profession.

However, Mercury well-placed will more likely produce scholars, geeks and nerds, while Mars well-placed will more likely incline people towards fighting and domination. So probably Venus is still the best bet.

I know someone that could have been a professional in the food industry. I attribute this mainly to her elevated tarurus mars. Mars might be in detriment here, but taurus rules food for pleasure. It only makes sense that mars in taurus would be good for food preparation. She has stamina to cook all day and has a really good sense of heat control and flavor. Over the years, she has decorated many cakes for weddings , anniversaries, and birthday parties. It's fair to say that her popularity is mostly connected with making good food.

[FONT=&quot]Her Chart[/FONT]

Hi !4C,

One of the main things I saw in her chart is that Venus is in the heart of the sun (called "cazimi" in the later arabian tradition). According to the later tradition, this fortifies the planet. The second thing I saw was that Venus and Mars receive each other through their domiciles (mutual reception), and they are in aspect with each other.

This is a nocturnal chart, and although it is a dark chart (no lights above the horizon), I am inclined to choose Moon as the sect light, as she is in the house of her sect-mate and she manages the Ascendant, so she is more suitable as the life-giver for this chart. Thus, Venus and Mars are both of the sect in favour.

By whole signs, Mars is in the benefic 11th house, and Venus is in the benefic 5th house. This increases the favourability of both planets. Venus is the 5th emphasises its symbolism of pleasure (if we follow the later tradition where 5th=house of pleasure). Jupiter closely with Venus also increases her beneficence.

So I think it comes down to all these factors.



Now this is more off-topic, but what was her main profession (the one which she participates in for her livelihood)?



Using Ptolemy's method, and Maternus's rendition of it, I am guessing that it has to do with Mercury. If not Mercury, then Mars. Mercury in the 6th with Saturn...I think a medical business, like pharmacist or nursing, etc...But she may be a housewife too.

could someone please analyze my chart for this specific topic "what makes cooks and chefs" ? thank you. P.S if you see anything else of interest feel free to add your thoughts / input

I have a daughter-in-law who is a career chef working in a very prestigious hotel.

She has the Sun in Cancer and the Moon in Virgo, with the Moon being the Almuten of the chart together with Jupiter in Gemini. She was born in the day of Jupiter and hour of the Moon. Moon is in Hayz and also scores highest in essential dignity.

She has a Libra MC with its ruler, Venus, in Gemini in the 5th house and conjunct Jupiter.

She cooks a large variety of food and food that requires considerable detail at times.

She has Mars in Gemini and is very quick and dexterous in her preparation, though she has burnt and cut herself a few times.

Alice

Hi Laxene

I calculated your chart on Solar Fire v9 and came up with you being born on Eastern Daylight Time of + 4.00, whereas your chart is calculated for Eastern Standard time of + 5.00. I know some places in Ontario don't use Daylight Saving at all, but am not sure if your town is in those locations. Can you find out if Daylight Saving Time was happening on your day of birth?

This chart gives an MC of 27Cancer27 and an Ascendant of 22Libra49, which, on the surface, is much more appropriate for a career as a chef than the chart you presented.

Alice

Alice McDermott said:

Hi Laxene

I calculated your chart on Solar Fire v9 and came up with you being born on Eastern Daylight Time of + 4.00, whereas your chart is calculated for Eastern Standard time of + 5.00. I know some places in Ontario don't use Daylight Saving at all, but am not sure if your town is in those locations. Can you find out if Daylight Saving Time was happening on your day of birth?

This chart gives an MC of 27Cancer27 and an Ascendant of 22Libra49, which, on the surface, is much more appropriate for a career as a chef than the chart you presented.

Alice

Click to expand...

hi

You posted my chart, so, I think you are talking to me in Ontario we use 1hr daylight savings. And I was born in the fall so that would be EST correct ? the chart you posted shows EDT.

hi OP, this is not a very good place to get much feedback either I find

weather you come here to learn

or to share

astrology3456 said:

hi OP, this is not a very good place to get much feedback either I find

weather you come here to learn

or to share

Click to expand...

Have you tried posting your chart in it's own thread under "read my chart" subforum? That is usually where such questions are asked.

Flapjacks said:

Have you tried posting your chart in it's own thread under "read my chart" subforum? That is usually where such questions are asked.

Click to expand...

Hi

Yes, but I think I posted the wrong chart. It doesn't help that I am more of an idiot than I thought and i don't even know what the correct time zone to put in for the data is, nor do i know which system to use.

For time zone im sure its either EST or EDT, and for system i think that's a matter of preference ? Either way I've seen a few natal chart / wheels that look completely different

astrology3456 said:

hi

You posted my chart, so, I think you are talking to me in Ontario we use 1hr daylight savings. And I was born in the fall so that would be EST correct ? the chart you posted shows EDT.

Click to expand...

Hi astrology3456

Sorry about the mixup.

In Ontario in 1983 Daylight Saving started on Sunday, 24th April 1983 at 3.00 am and finished on Sunday 30th October 1983 at 1.00 am, so it looks as though the chart I have posted with Eastern Daylight time (EDT) is the correct one. http://weatherspark.com/history/28448/1983/Toronto-Ontario-Canada.

This chart does show interest in food and an artistic flair in presentation.

I agree that you will get much more feedback in the 'read my chart' section as this area is specifically for traditional astrology techniques.

Alice

Alice McDermott said:

Hi astrology3456

Sorry about the mixup.

In Ontario in 1983 Daylight Saving started on Sunday, 24th April 1983 at 3.00 am and finished on Sunday 30th October 1983 at 1.00 am, so it looks as though the chart I have posted with Eastern Daylight time (EDT) is the correct one. http://weatherspark.com/history/28448/1983/Toronto-Ontario-Canada.

This chart does show interest in food and and artistic flair in presentation.

Alice

Click to expand...

Hi

Thanks for this, i was born in 1984 not 1983 by the way. for 1984 it was October 28th, so it looks like your chart is right !

Here is a link to my vegan cooking blog by the way
http://veganstuff4u.blogspot.ca/

astrology3456 said:

Here is a link to my vegan cooking blog by the way
http://veganstuff4u.blogspot.ca/

Click to expand...

Your food looks delicious James! Beautiful blend of flavors.

Alice

thanks for this encouragement as well !

The main focus of this thread is to discuss the indications that make for chefs or cooks. I think it would have been better if you started a thread on the Read My Chart section and then posted that link here asking for interpretation in that post.



I tried casting your chart and it is different from the one you posted. The chart I casted looks the same as the one Alice posted. I checked the time zone issue and it seems that for most places it is unnecessary to adjust for daylight savings time (in astrodienst), and the time zone that was automatically selected did state "daylight savings time", so the one Alice posted should be correct.

Using this chart, assuming the birth time is correct, there is a strong Venusian emphasis. Venus scores above average in favourability and fitness. The Sun being in Venus's sign makes Venus the oikodespotes (using Schmidt's version). She sets the destination of the native.

When using Ptolemy's method of determining profession, none of the three planets are chosen for significator of profession. However the MC's domicile is the Moon and she is in the sign of Venus and is with Venus, so tentatively we might elect Venus as significator of profession. However, Ptolemy states that in such nativities the person only occassionally participates in his profession. What this means is that you may sometimes have a job in the culinary industry but often temporary, and eventually you will switch jobs, probably into a different industry. (Assuming that you are only interested in cooking. Venus signifies many different professions: visual arts, acting, filming, selling makeups and jewellery, music, etc.)

However, if we are to use Maternus's version of the method, he would probably choose Venus as the significator of profession, because she is the only planet of the three that is on the angles.

One other prominent planet is the one that is angular by quadrant house: Saturn. He is the bound lord of the Sun; this makes him the overseer of the destination. My current understanding is that the overseer tells us how the native achieves his life destination (defined by the oikodespotes). Since this is Saturn, it makes the person more methodical, step-by-step or restricting in some way when driving to his destination.

Do you find yourself to be inclined to do things in certain ways when cooking? Like, when frying fried rice, you would put the ingredients into the pan in a certain order, measure the amount of salt with a teaspoon instead just taking a pinch, etc.

I checked your blog, and it does seem that you present your recipe in a step-by-step manner, with detailed explanations. This is quite Saturnine way of doing things .