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  #1  
Unread 07-01-2010, 08:42 PM
Saturnian Saturnian is offline
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Ascendant vs Mid-heaven

So I am a bit confused.
I've read that the Ascendant is the image we project,the first impression.
While the Mid-heaven is how the public sees us(if I am not wrong).
I know that there must be a very thin line seperating those two meanings but I know that both can be confusing.I'd like some insight please.
Let's just keep in mind that the 1st house has many planets,Sun,Mercury,Venus,Mars,Uranus,Neptune and the 10th house has Moon,Jupiter,Pluto so I'd like to know if planets can affect the images that are projected from these two placements.
Keep in mind that the Ascendant is in Capricorn and the Mid-heaven in Scorpio.
If it's necessary to have a chart then just tell me and I'll post it.

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Unread 07-01-2010, 09:11 PM
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Re: Ascendant vs Mid-heaven

Here's one way of looking at it:

The Ascendant is the native's projected image.

The Midheaven is the native's public reputation.
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Unread 07-01-2010, 09:41 PM
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Re: Ascendant vs Mid-heaven

That is helpful.
Does that mean that my public reputation(Mid-heaven in Scorpio) will have little to do with my private life?Since I've always thought to myself that I would never involve my privacy to my reputation.
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Unread 07-01-2010, 09:49 PM
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Re: Ascendant vs Mid-heaven

Saturnian,

Ascendant = "I am." It is the individualized expression of the martial 'I am here', embodied, a portion of spirit doing life as a human.

Midheaven = "I shall accomplish." It is the sense of mission in life that creates something for future generations to build on and/or worthy enough for the world to compensate you with rewards like recognition, position, money.

The Asc is immediate it is YOU. MC is an extension of you and more future-oriented, playing out over time.
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  #5  
Unread 07-02-2010, 04:48 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: Ascendant vs Mid-heaven

The MC also is reflective of the social circumstances (society) relative to the particular individual (native), under which circumstances/conditions the essence of the individual (largely shown by the ascendant) must strive-must act and react. The MC status and influences might tend to lift up the ascendant, or ithey might tend to squash it down.

Last edited by dr. farr; 07-02-2010 at 04:50 AM.
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Unread 07-03-2010, 04:22 PM
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Re: Ascendant vs Mid-heaven

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kannon View Post
Saturnian,

Ascendant = "I am." It is the individualized expression of the martial 'I am here', embodied, a portion of spirit doing life as a human.

Midheaven = "I shall accomplish." It is the sense of mission in life that creates something for future generations to build on and/or worthy enough for the world to compensate you with rewards like recognition, position, money.

The Asc is immediate it is YOU. MC is an extension of you and more future-oriented, playing out over time.
Nice one, simple and succinct...

Now basically your sun sign is your 'core beliefs, values, ego' and Asc is your physical body, mode of expression and mask and persona that we all wear and hide behind, but definitely not what's going on underneath. What's going on underneath is your Sun sign. Moon sign, house placements and aspects describe your emotional and intuitive responses, also describes your view of your mother, as saturn describes your father by sign and house position.

So, think of a glass milk bottle the bottle is your Asc and your sun the milk, but the milk still has to 'come out' through the glass neck of the milk bottle....

Now aspects within a natal chart represent 'facets' of our personality, because we are all multifaceted beings. What these do is 'break down and compartmentalise' these facets into smaller bite size chunks. This does take quite a lot of self analysis and objectivity to 'see yourself' and why you do certain things and behave in certain ways. Actually it can be quite good therapy...

Remember back to your school days an opposition is 180', square 90', trine 120', and sextile 60' Now challenged aspects are conj (depending on the planets, cos some like each other and some really don't) squares and oppositions. Easy aspects are conj (if the planets get along) eg: Jupiter conj Moon, sextile and trine. Quincunx is inbetween (depending on the planets) causes health strains and unresolved or hard to balance planets/energies.

MC is our professional image and how we want to be perceived in society, career/workwise, what we are/become known for which is different from Asc or sun sign

I have Saggi MC and can behave like extrovert sagg, teach, have interests in 9th house matters, religion, law, philosophy, always enjoy learning new things. But that's not the real me either, the real me is the 'sun sign' think of a glass milk bottle, the milk still has to 'come out' through the glass neck. The bottle being the Asc sign and most visible to other.

Plus the Asc sign is the chemistry, lust and attraction factor when boy meets girl, it's what gets a relationship going. BUT have you never heard (even from your school days) that after a few weeks or months, that mask and persona has to drop and you have to get to know the person underneath and that's totally different to the image we 'project' outwards.


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Unread 07-03-2010, 04:48 PM
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Re: Ascendant vs Mid-heaven

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturnian View Post
That is helpful.
Does that mean that my public reputation(Mid-heaven in Scorpio) will have little to do with my private life?Since I've always thought to myself that I would never involve my privacy to my reputation.
Look at your 4th House. You can also look to your 12th House, which will describe the solitude you seek (or not).

With a Scorpio MC, you most likely have Taurus on the 4th, that's earthy and very private and suggests that you might be able to keep those two separated, so long as the rulers of the those houses are not weak or in aspect to certain planets, like Uranus or Pluto who tend to reveal your secrets and disrupt your life unexpectedly, usually at the worst possible time (but it's all for the best).
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Unread 07-03-2010, 05:06 PM
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Re: Ascendant vs Mid-heaven

I've always thought of Capricorn and Scorpio as the two least sociable signs, Scorpio cos it's such a private sign it doesn't want people knowing it's business and Cappi cos it's a workaholic [ in general terms of course]
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Unread 07-03-2010, 06:36 PM
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Re: Ascendant vs Mid-heaven

To Kannon, or anyone else who wants to answer:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kannon View Post

Ascendant = "I am." It is the individualized expression of the martial 'I am here', embodied, a portion of spirit doing life as a human.

Midheaven = "I shall accomplish." It is the sense of mission in life that creates something for future generations to build on and/or worthy enough for the world to compensate you with rewards like recognition, position, money.

The Asc is immediate it is YOU. MC is an extension of you and more future-oriented, playing out over time.
So, how would the ruler of the MC in the Ascendant play out? Venus in Capricorn rules my MC, and is in my Ascendant/1st house.

Also for Bob Zemco or anyone else that wants to answer:
Quote:
Q: Does that mean that my public reputation(Mid-heaven in Scorpio) will have little to do with my private life?Since I've always thought to myself that I would never involve my privacy to my reputation.

A: Look at your 4th House. You can also look to your 12th House, which will describe the solitude you seek (or not)
Interestingly enough, the ruler of my 4th house, Mars in Capricorn, is also in my Ascendant/1st house - and in my relocated chart - smack on the Ascendant.

Also, if I read and understood correctly, the thread-starter, Saturnian's, chart has a bunch of planets in the 1st and in the 10th, including the ruler of the MC, Mars ( Scorpio MC), in the Ascendant/1st house.
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Unread 07-03-2010, 09:41 PM
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Re: Ascendant vs Mid-heaven

Freedom,
Quote:
So, how would the ruler of the MC in the Ascendant play out? Venus in Capricorn rules my MC, and is in my Ascendant/1st house.
Firstly, your Venus is not conjunct Asc it's mid to late 1st...

Quote:
Ruler of the Tenth House in the First House
An authority figure or perhaps your father had a strong influence on your outlook on life.
You could have a strong desire to be your own boss, or your ability to be a strong authority figure is easily perceived by others.http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/aspectsuranus.htm
Quote:
Ruler of 10th house in 1st house
Your professional success is related to the expression of your personality, the confidence in your initiative and your physical body or appearance. Whatever you achieve in life, you will have to do it on your own and will be very proud of it. Try to avoid the tendency to become egocentric. You may do best when self-employed.


Quote:
Interestingly enough, the ruler of my 4th house, Mars in Capricorn, is also in my Ascendant/1st house - and in my relocated chart - smack on the Ascendant.
I don't call 8' away from Asc "smack on" in fact I wouldn't even call it conjunct....

Ruler of 4th in 1st suggests that you want or expect family members to run around after you and put you first
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Unread 07-03-2010, 09:53 PM
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Re: Ascendant vs Mid-heaven

Quote:
Originally Posted by astrologer50 View Post
Freedom,


Firstly, your Venus is not conjunct Asc it's mid to late 1st...







I don't call 8' away from Asc "smack on" in fact I wouldn't even call it conjunct....

Ruler of 4th in 1st suggests that you want or expect family members to run around after you and put you first

Thank you for the input and links, Astrologer50. However, I do want to point out that you mis-read what I wrote. I did NOT say that Venus was CONJUNCT my ascendant. I wrote ( and I quote)
Quote:
Venus in Capricorn rules my MC, and is in my Ascendant/1st house.
Secondly, I did NOT say that my Mars was "smack" on my ascendant in my natal chart. I said it was in my relocated chart, and I quote:
Quote:
the ruler of my 4th house, Mars in Capricorn, is also in my Ascendant/1st house - and in my relocated chart - smack on the Ascendant.
Maybe pay a little closer attention to what you read next time - holds down on confusion and wasted typing strokes.

I will take a look at those links though.
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  #12  
Unread 07-03-2010, 10:13 PM
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Re: Ascendant vs Mid-heaven

Quote:
Venus in Capricorn rules my MC, andis in my Ascendant/1st house

Easily done considering you style of writing FL being almost ambiguous

Quote:
the ruler of my 4th house, Mars in Capricorn, is also in my Ascendant/1st house - and in my relocated chart - smack on the Ascendant.
You are correct I did read it as being smack on Asc instead of relocated Asc

Quote:
Maybe pay a little closer attention to what you read next time - holds down on confusion and wasted typing strokes.
Maybe a little more 'gratitude' instead of condensention would be helpful to
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Unread 07-03-2010, 10:23 PM
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Re: Ascendant vs Mid-heaven

quoting astrologer50
Quote:
Maybe a little more 'gratitude' instead of condensention would be helpful to
"Thank you" was the very first thing I wrote. Here it is again, in case you missed it the first time.
Quote:
Thank you for the input and links, Astrologer50.
Hopefully the copy and paste work and the links you posted will be helpful to the thread-starter, as well. Saturnian also has ruler of the MC in the Ascendant/1st house, among a whole slew of other planets.
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Unread 07-03-2010, 11:03 PM
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Re: Ascendant vs Mid-heaven

To draw a finer point on it, the ascendant shows how you look as a human body and how you behave as a human personality. This is the "you" that people see when they greet you face-to-face. This is the "you" I would notice if I saw you on the bus. Is your hair tame or wild? Do you smile or do you frown? Do you dress conservatively or extravagently?

The MC is one's public image, which may have little to do with your outward appearance and conduct. For a child, this image might only be as a child, as a student, or possibly due to some special achievement. As people age, this part becomes more pronounced, such that people who have never met you know who you are by reputation or because of a special position that you hold. This position may or may not be related to your job. For some, it might be volunteer work or becoming wealthy, or gaining notoreity in some way. To get this, you would see where the ruler of the MC is located; as well as its aspects and any planets in the 10th house.

The MC/10th house is really the house of one's vocation. "Just a job" is a 6th house matter. Destiny is also a MC/10th house matter.

Occasionally there are people for whom their ASC/1st house is very closely intertwined with their public image/MC. Professional models, actors, and iconic public figures. For example, few people understand Einstein's contribution to science, but due to his wild hair and distinctive appearance, he became an icon to many of the scientific genius.

FreedomLover, with Venus in the first, probably you are visually attractive; whether or not you feel that way about yourself (with Saturn squaring your sun]. Do you have a Venusian vocation?

Last edited by waybread; 07-03-2010 at 11:13 PM.
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Unread 07-04-2010, 12:11 AM
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Re: Ascendant vs Mid-heaven

One way to look at the MC is as our actions, karma, seeds we sow, etc. It is the things in life that rule us, have authority over us, and determine what happen to us. Things like our profession and what we do for the world, the people that control us, and also the things we do that control ourselves...

And the ASC is just us.

But those are just my opinions.

On another note, I have noticed a lot of condensation in this thread. We should fix that.
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Unread 07-04-2010, 12:45 AM
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Re: Ascendant vs Mid-heaven

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomlover View Post
Interestingly enough, the ruler of my 4th house, Mars in Capricorn, is also in my Ascendant/1st house - and in my relocated chart - smack on the Ascendant.
I don't see where it would change much, at least not enough for you to notice. Mars is Exalted in Capricorn, and I didn't see any planets afflicting it.

If Mars was natally in your 4th and you relocated and it now fell in your 1st, I'd think you'd notice that.
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  #17  
Unread 07-04-2010, 04:40 AM
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Re: Ascendant vs Mid-heaven

Regarding both the ascendant and the MC, in my way of delineation (not typical), especially in natal, I actually look at the full sign as only having a general, and rather diffuse, influence, whereas I consider the decan in which that degree falls, to have a more specific and individualizing influence; sometimes I will also count in the duodenary as having a modifying influence as well. And this also goes for full sign and decanate sign planetary dispositors (rulers): I consider the full sign planetary dispositor of the ascendant (or the MC) to exert only a diffuse, general influence (which I do take into account as a "background" coloration), with the planetary ruler (dispositor)of the decanate having a more pointed, specific, particularlizing influence.
In these considerations used in my natal chart analysis I have been very much influenced both by the extensive use of decanates (and duodenaries) practiced by the old time Hellenists, and by a similar emphasis found to this day in the lesser known Jaimini branch of Vedic (jyotish) astrology; please note that in making these remarks I am not criticizing any other approach, nor trying to convert anyone to this way of considering the ascendant or MC.

As a brief example, if we take Freedomlover's posted natal chart, this is how I would start to look at the ascendant and MC through the above approach:

Ascendant @ 3 Capricorn:
-for me, I would say that Capricorn has a diffuse general influence on asc/1st house department of life; 3 Capricorn is in the first Manilius decan of Capricorn, which is the Cancer decan; therefore I would say that Cancer has a specific influence upon her ascendant (thus I would interpret her asc as Cancer with Capricorn undertones)
Planetarily, I would consider Saturn (ruler of Capricorn) as having only a mild dispoiting influence on her asc/1st house; I would delineate the Moon (ruler of the Cancer decanate) together with Mars and Venus (both posited in Capricorn in the 1st house by whole sign) as the most significant planetary influences on her asc/1st house.

MC @ 25 Libra
I would consider Libra to exert only a mild, general influence re to the MC; the MC is posited in the third Manilius decan of Libra, which is Sagittarius; therefore I would consider Sagittarius to have a more specific, particular influence upon her MC (and everything represented by that MC) I would also consider the MC to be under the primary influence of Jupiter (ruler of the Sagittarius decan) with a secondary Venus influence (ruler of the full sign, Libra, in which the MC is posited)
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Unread 07-04-2010, 09:56 PM
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Re: Ascendant vs Mid-heaven

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomlover View Post
So, how would the ruler of the MC in the Ascendant play out? Venus in Capricorn rules my MC, and is in my Ascendant/1st house.
IF your chart is correct as is, this indicates a person to be the center/feature of their work life and/or in charge of their own business. In the case of Venus it can mean the beauty you present is what gains your reputation and/or living.

Related example:
I have a client whose Pisces rising chart has Sagittarius over the MC. Jupiter is in his first house in Pisces conjunct his Sun in Pisces. For a while he made a living last doing educational software programming with a college professor. He doesn't like to work for corporations or those types of situations and seems to earn well enough to go a while sometimes without having to work. He told me he can still do computer programming when he has to for money.

(BTW, my chart for him was not in line with his given birth time of "8 am." That would have given Aries rising, which did not fit his personality. I adjusted back to Pisces and worked out the correct Asc degree. )

The key as always, is verifying your Asc sign and degree. Without that locked in, your interpretations according to houses/calculated points will very likely give misleading information. Most charts have to be adjusted significantly.
Asc signs thread:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=25131
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