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Fixed stars, asteroids and other cosmic objects For astrology talks on fixed stars, Chiron, Sedna, Eris or any other newly discovered or little known cosmic object.


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Unread 01-31-2007, 03:49 PM
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Extra-Solar and Hypothetical planets

I was just wondering as to the general opinion of these misplaced bodies. Does anyone here actively use the hypothetical planets in chart interpretations? The Uranian astrologers seem to have taken their nine? bodies and ran with them creating their personalities and positions and whatnot, so it seems interesting. However, since the eccentricities of Neptune's and Uranus' orbits have been judged illusionary (how fitting for Neptune), so as the myth of Planet X (or TransPluto) dies does the energy in experimenting with hypothetical placements wane?

I was also wondering about Extra-solar planets. There have been dozens upon dozens of Star Systems found that have at least one planet orbiting said star. Are these planets also to be considered for our chart or are planetary energies confined to their respective star systems? And what of possible Binary Star Systems, where in one star with planets orbiting it orbits another star with planets orbiting it, do these planets' energies cross over into each other's system?

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Unread 02-01-2007, 12:37 PM
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Re: Extra-Solar and Hypothetical planets

Wouldn't we be overwhelmed with planetary influences though? Would they hold the same meanings? Would Venus still mean the same here and elsewhere, I mean, I'm sure this is how it would work out if astrology is the system it is said to be, but would it really? Or would Venus move too slowly for them to consider in their charts? Also, since their Sun or central star would most likely take over everything our Sun stands for, what would our Sum become? I also wonder what different Signs they would use.

I'm more inclined to believe the planetary energies stick to their own star systems. For our own Star System, it would probably end about where it is now, at Eris in the Scattered Disk, or perhaps it would end at the Oort Cloud, should we find any sizeable bodies past the former proposed stopping point.
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Unread 02-01-2007, 02:13 PM
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Re: Extra-Solar and Hypothetical planets

For me, the use of hypothetical planets or extra-solar planets are important.

Like you said Kaio, there are planets that really are similar to others which don't belong in our system. Take the constellations for example, the 12 zodiacal constellations we use, but there are more than just 12. Mainly the skeptics use this idea, to say " Why don't astrologers use other constellations besides the 12 already known ". It's clearly quite simple to explain why don't we use them ( or at least not so often like the zodiacal constellations we already use ). The answer is sinonime energies, similar energies. For example the constellation X could be similar to constellation Y even if they are in different sectors in the sky, northen or southern, but esotericaly they could hold the similar astrological interpretation and influence. We actualy use the other constellations besides the 12 without even knowing ( the fixed stars astrologers are aware of this ). If the ancient astrologers who made the concept of these constellations, would try to use other constellations other than the 12 zodiacal ones, the result would be the same as the ones we use now. The same goes to the planets, we could say that the uranian Poseidon is similar to the planet Neptune, like borned twins. But even twins have slightly some difference, the way they act, the duration, the quality which they act etc. We can say Poseidon brings earthquakes ( like the mythology sais ), for this we quikly might say Neptune does the same effect whit triggering earthquakes. It's true, so having planets in similar energetic vibration could prove usefull, like having a back-up plan when it comes finding complicated and hard interpretations. ( Neptune square/opposition/sesquiquadrate Poseidon it's 100% earthquake phenomen indicator for example ).

The holistical viewpoint in astrology sais that if you see an indicator of something in a chart, it's obligatory that such indicator could be found in different method and even other planets to show it ( or asteroids, virtual points, hypotheticals etc. ).

For me the uranian planets are esential for me, cause I have something to check after an interpretation. For example, for first I use the regular planets in our solar system, but if I want to make sure I am right, I do the holistical concept of verifing in different methods and I am using the uranians or other hypotheticals to verify it, this way I cannot make mistakes in astrology. The same way goes to fixed stars, asteroids, virtual points, extra-solar planets, hypotheticals etc, they are all esential for me.

When we talk about planets in different star system sharing thier energies I could say a few things. It's like the infinite micro-univers and the infinite macro-univers. The cells in our body are many, they help eachother and influence eachother. The next step is the organs, which again they influence eachother to make our organism function well. The next step is ourselfs, humans, we relate to eachother and we influence eachother. Then we look at the coutries, themself are relating to other countries and again the influence is going to all of them eventualy. Then we look even bigger, planets themself influence eachother, thier energy and vibration. So the result it's obvious, that star systems influence eachother as well. Myself I use our binary star system called Dark Star system or Nemesis system. It's very important to me, both mundane ( generalistic ) and also individualistic, such star along whit thier planets ( expecialy Nibiru ) worked for me and has powerfull influence even if it's used at low orb factor since it moves slow ( there are ways in using them, you can use harmonics or other dinamic techniques cause they work ) For me, hypothetical planets are important to me and don't seem so " Hypothetical ", they are quite real, consider them similar to the fictive points ( NN, SN, Vertex, Lilith etc. ), if you don't think they are real.
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Unread 02-01-2007, 07:28 PM
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Re: Extra-Solar and Hypothetical planets

I understand that, but I'm not so big a fan of the idea signs and planets overlapping each other, it sounds kind of silly. Well, perhaps not exactly "silly", but close enough. I had thought before that the could be twins, but even then, I would probably not bother to use the lesser-known of the twins. Between the planet Neptune and the hypothetical planet Poseidon, I'm going to choose Neptune every time.

I do like the idea of using different methods to get the same results, it would be interesting to see several examples of such. How about this though. Do you think the hypothetical planets form an argument against astrology? Kind of a "theological" speed bump?

I'm not a big fan of comparing cells to planets. Especially when it's a science/astrological comparion, it seems a little...odd to me. I do get the point, though. I would agree that the Nemisis system (should it prove to exist) would augment our own, though I'm not so inclined to believe ours would influence it. It orbits us, not the other way around. But, this is on the condition it proves to exist, which may be a taller order than we realize. The supposed orbit for Nibiru is so achingly slow, would it really be worth it to observe him in natal charts and other such things?
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Unread 02-02-2007, 02:54 PM
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Re: Extra-Solar and Hypothetical planets

-Warning!! Super big reply whit 4 chart images!!! - ( Have fun )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi
I understand that, but I'm not so big a fan of the idea signs and planets overlapping each other, it sounds kind of silly. Well, perhaps not exactly "silly", but close enough. I had thought before that the could be twins, but even then, I would probably not bother to use the lesser-known of the twins. Between the planet Neptune and the hypothetical planet Poseidon, I'm going to choose Neptune every time.
No it's not silly, this word you use it's wrong. Think that Neptune and the uranian Poseidon are both doctors whit same speciality. Going to the same doctor always is not wrong, but he can mistake sometimes, so having more than one doctor with same speciality around can help. In history, astrologers and astronomers were upset they had too few planets to use, today we have too many, our wish came true... so why do we refuse them now? when we wished for them for so long. We don't know what we want from astrology or astronomy, WE are the silly ones to refuse the new objects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi
I do like the idea of using different methods to get the same results, it would be interesting to see several examples of such. How about this though.
Very well, I understand your concern and you are not the only one whit this question.

************************************************** *******

The 1st example ( Horary chart ):





A guy passionated to TV martial arts wanted soon to practice it himself, a real martial art, he asked advice around, but no luck in finding important information to his concern. He eventualy wanted to ask a horary about it. We should name him mister X.
I had to find the answer. Firstly we should do traditionaly, then we should try verify if it's true by using uranians.

Question " Will I ever have the chance to do martial arts? ", Background information... He asked several times about it, for many years, but it's the first time when mister X thinked about horary consultation.

ASC is Taurus, so the querent is Venus. Venus is at domicile sign ( Libra ) also it's co-significator, the Moon is also at domicile sign ( Cancer ). The answer is clearly NO cause Moon squares Venus. They are both in powerfull signs, so niether planet is giving up ( not just yet ). Venus near Sun is combustion, making it weaker. Venus is also in unfortunate house ( 6th house ), meaning he could be very busy in other business, too indicisive whit his time and also too lazy to do a sport. Venus separating from Lilith and South Node, could mean blockage and even karmical restriction, this can also show he was concerned about this for years to start doing a martial arts. Venus also separates from a malefic fixed star Vindemiatrix, which means loss, fail, he cannot start a martial art, cause to many more important matters blocks his wish to do it. Venus is weak, Moon wins the square aspect, so it's a NO answer.

Now, about the uranians. I restricted the other uranians, except Kronous and Admetos. Here is something really simple, Moon separates from Kronous Rx meaning long years of concerns about the problem, bieng Rx means he didn't have the chance to do anything about trieng to practice martial arts. Kronous means also mastery, he wants the best martial art, not something simple, he wants the best, which of course is quite hard. Now look at the Admetos in 1st house, that tells a lot. Admetos is the planet of focus or scatter. Bieng Rx it's a clear indicator of scatter, he didn't do it at the right time and also, bieng in a fixed sign shows bieng lazy to do it also. The school of Hamburg said Admetos has affinity rulership towards Virgo, this shows bieng the ruler of 6th ( hypotheticaly of course ), meaning he is too busy and has other important matters to attend instead to practice a complicated sport like a martial art. Admetos means also sacrifice for a better purpose, meaning that a complicated martial art is not so important to his future, he has a more greater purpose in life and needs to let go to his passion to martial arts. Admetos can show confusion too. Now for something to show a NO answer, 9th house reprezents martial arts, ruled by Saturn squares Admetos, showing a NO answer, there are to many blockages in life.

After the horary, Mister X confirmed the answers, they were true, he gave up on martial arts, he is to busy to start a complicated martial art ( he doesn't want simple ones, he dislikes them ). He is also sometimes too lazy to do a sport. He eventualy gave up seeing martial arts at TV and thinking about them, cause more busy he became.

So uranians at Horary works! it is confirmed.


The 2nd example ( A famous natal chart )






Albert Einstien, we all know who he is and we all know about his genius mind. But can this great inteligent mind be shown using uranians???

We can see the Mercury/Saturn/POF conjunction which is quite special, shows great mind, bieng in Aries, high mental capacities whit pioneer type of acting in life. But there are many, many persons whit Mercury/Saturn conjunction in Aries, more rare is whit POF, but unique is whit the uranian Kronous. A Kronous/Saturn/Mercury/POF stelium in 10th in Aries, it's not only very rare, it's unique, only one or two persons in this world can have such stelium. Kronous means mastery, extraordinary things, showing the concretisation of Einstiens geniousy. So the uranian was the final ingredient to his master mind. Kronous/Saturn/Mercury/POF stelium in 10th in Aries will not repeat again, maybe in a few centuries or milleniums, so this proves how unique Einstiens's mind can be.

************************************************** *******

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi
Do you think the hypothetical planets form an argument against astrology? Kind of a "theological" speed bump?
No, they don't form any arguments against astrology. Bieng new doesn't mean replacing the old standards, they can be used togheter. Hypotheticals can show 'hidden details' which are harder to spot using standard methods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi
I'm not a big fan of comparing cells to planets. Especially when it's a science/astrological comparion, it seems a little...odd to me. I do get the point, though. I would agree that the Nemisis system (should it prove to exist) would augment our own, though I'm not so inclined to believe ours would influence it. It orbits us, not the other way around.
Wrong! think of Heliocentric and Geocentric perspective in astrology. In Geocentric, The Sun affects us bieng borned on Earth, it shows our personality, ego, healith, our way of bieng etc. In Heliocentric, The Earth affects us how we want to become, our stability, what kind of personality we would like to become and what kind of energy we atract by it's position around the zodiac. Sun and Earth affect eachother, even if Earth moves around the Sun. Now think in a larger scale, Nemesis affects us, like using the far objects, such as fixed stars for example, or extra-solar hypotheticals. If you were borned in the Nemesis System, or if you use the central planet calculation for your chart as Nemesis, you would have the position of the Solar System and the planets in the chart, they would have thier influence to the Nemesis system as well, even if Nemesis is a binary system which rotates around our Solar System. So Nemesis and our system affect eachother after all, like the Heliocentric and Geocentric perspective, but in a larger scale.

************************************************** *******

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi
The supposed orbit for Nibiru is so achingly slow, would it really be worth it to observe him in natal charts and other such things?
That doesn't stop me by using it, there are ways to use it even if it's slow. Think of the Fixed Stars, they move 1 degree per 72 years, but they are extremely usefull in astrology ( the destiny lies on the stars ).

Here is a technique how to use Nibiru.

Example: Natal chart using Nibiru harmonics on the spiritual person O.M.Aivanhov.






Nibiru is the planet of paranormal, ufo's, other worlds, other dimensions, far vibrationaly information, gate to divinity or infernal entities, bio-energy, teleportation, deep esoteric initiation etc.

His Nibiru is at 7th house, all alone, so for the first view it might seem to be useless in our chart. But not to fear, there is a great technique to such problem.

Harmonics is a complicated method, but it always solves the hard problems, it always makes complicated things simple and vice-versa. The best harmonic for Nibiru is 5th, meaning talents, creativity. 360/5=72, which means the quintile aspect, it's also a very spiritual aspect, shows spirituality and inner abilities which are the results to his faith. Nibiru is at 24 Taurus, converting to decimal degrees, it will result to 54, multiplieng to 5th harmonic will result 54*5= 270. At the decimal positions, the 5th harmonic Nibiru is right at Saturn at 270 decimal position, it's a almost perfect conjunction. Going back to zodiacal position degrees, 5th harmonic Nibiru is right at non-harmonic Saturn ( or 1st harmonic chart factor ). Meaning his spirituality shown whit paranormal and unsual talents by Nibiru is right on Saturn which shown concretisation, materialisation, crystalisation ( he could read minds, he could materialize anything using etherical energies etc. ). Saturn in 3rd shows lot's of books at old age, but the 1st harmonic Nibiru is at 7th house, while 5th harmonic Nibiru is at Saturn. Bieng right on the 3rd house cusp whit the influence from 1st harmonic Nibiru, this can show that Aivanhov didn't write the books, other people did, since they were all fascinated by this personality. Harmonics prove Nibiru works, so slow moving planets doesn't bother the astrologer if he knows what he is doing, actualy the slower the planet the stronger the influence cause it sits to much at a certain degree.


Here is another example, going back to Einstiens chart.





Going back to Einstien we could talk about the teleport experiment he did ( Philaldelphia experiment ). Scorpio is intercepted by 5th house, this shows he his excelent at all the creativity he makes, but interceptations can show a problem. Using the modern ruler of Scorpio, Pluto we can guess this means creativity that demands lots of energy, both personal and electric ( or nuclear ). Pluto whit Nibiru at 24Taurus can show an experiment, which demands massive power, it's also outer dimensional/ time-space bending / teleporation ( Nibiru indicating ), can always be out of control ( Pluto indication ). Algol is right at Nibiru/Pluto conjunction, bieng a malefic star can show failing the experiment, whit ugly results and deaths. Pluto is slightly squaring Uranus in Virgo that could show, technological problems, Pluto is in Taurus, technological problems because all the utilities are too primitive to Einstien's ideas and experiments.
************************************************** *******

So here is your explination, I hope all understood my huge reply ( whit lot's of grammer mistakes I presume ).

That's all.
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Last edited by Betelgeuse; 02-02-2007 at 03:47 PM.
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Unread 02-02-2007, 08:26 PM
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Re: Extra-Solar and Hypothetical planets

I implied all the hypothetical planets and saw some interesting aspects...

Apollon is exactly square Mars (002' orb)
Vulcanus is conjunct Mars
Poseidon sits on my 3rd house cusp (Placidus)
Nibiru & Admetos sit in Taurus and join my BML/ NN/ Venus/ Psyche & Pallas there
Vulcan is conjunct my Sun (Aren't Vulcan & Vulcanus the same)
Selena, Proserpina are conjunct Pluto
They also, together with Waldemath, join my Scorpio Pluto/ Saturn & SN...

What do these hypothetical planets stand for in fact? Which traits?
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Unread 02-03-2007, 12:34 AM
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Re: Extra-Solar and Hypothetical planets

Quote:
In history, astrologers and astronomers were upset they had too few planets to use, today we have too many, our wish came true... so why do we refuse them now? when we wished for them for so long. We don't know what we want from astrology or astronomy, WE are the silly ones to refuse the new objects.
I don't know so much about "upset", though I can imagine they weren't too happy about having twelve signs and seven planets. However, now in this age where we have found more bodies that could hold arguments of having "affinity rulership" of *insert disputed sign here* we need to be picky about what bodies we choose to use. This is probably really the only reason why we were hoping there were more, however, I sincerely doubt they would have ever considered extra-solar planets for possible sign rulerships. Not even being native to our Star System, I doubt many people would be on the boat for assigning them rulerships of our signs.

Ooh! Yay! I like it when people come prepared. I loved the examples, just a few comments, of course. I don't feel competent enough in horary to touch on that chart, so I'm not even going to go there. As for the Einstein one, I was always under the assumption that Uranus was what made him a genius. With Uranus being the ruler of his ninth house in the third, I would think this would make him quite ingenius. Unfortunately, the conglomeration of coloration in the middle of the chart disrupts the view to see what aspects Uranus casts.


Quote:
No, they don't form any arguments against astrology. Bieng new doesn't mean replacing the old standards, they can be used togheter. Hypotheticals can show 'hidden details' which are harder to spot using standard method.
Ah, but you see, they do. What's the validation in astrology if (as far as we know) blank spots in space have as much astrological influence as Mercury, or Neptune, or any of the other planets? The correct answer? Well, there's not much validation in that respect. Thus, the hypothetical planets are badges of shame astrologers are forced to wear. That is, until all of the hypothetical planets have been located in the exact positions their supposed orbit places them.


Quote:
Sun and Earth affect eachother, even if Earth moves around the Sun.
Ah, this is because, in Geocentric astrology, the Sun and the other planets are "revolving" around the Earth. It's the same way with Heliocentric astrology, with all of the planets orbiting the Sun as we know it astronomically. This cannot be in the case with the Nemesis system as the Dark Star supposedly orbits around our own Star, and thus its planets revolve around Sol. Our planets do not revolve around the Dark Star, and even if they did, they would probably all be in an eternal oppositon, just like casting a chart from Eris would show everything to be within Virgo-Scorpio, but mostly in Libra at this point.
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Unread 02-03-2007, 05:29 PM
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Re: Extra-Solar and Hypothetical planets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi
I don't know so much about "upset", though I can imagine they weren't too happy about having twelve signs and seven planets. However, now in this age where we have found more bodies that could hold arguments of having "affinity rulership" of *insert disputed sign here* we need to be picky about what bodies we choose to use. This is probably really the only reason why we were hoping there were more, however, I sincerely doubt they would have ever considered extra-solar planets for possible sign rulerships. Not even being native to our Star System, I doubt many people would be on the boat for assigning them rulerships of our signs.
So why did the ancient astrologers use the Fixed Stars for ? Just to look at them and say 'oh hey, pretty stars'. No, they didn't use them for nothing, no matter how slow or fixed they are, they had thier purpose and still have thier efficiency even today. A Fixed Star doesn't rule any sign. Therefore a extra-solar planet is the same way and does not need to have *affinity rulership* or *insert disputed sign here*. Also the Sun is a star itself, but still we say, because us as astrologers we use the word 'planet', even if it's just a luminary. People say planet Chiron, even if it's a centaur, a mini-planet or asteroid. Sometimes objects in the sky doesn't need a rulership at all, like Fixed Stars, and look at the example of Nibiru, I didn't use any rulership cause it doesn't have, but does that stop me from using it? nope, it doesn't. It's really wrong to think that we cannot use a object cause it doesn't have rulership/affinity rulership. By the way, the uranian planets ( Cupido, Hades, Zeus, Kronous, Admetos, Apollon, Vulkanus and Poseidon ) are not extra-solar and they belong to our system, and they aren't the only ones around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi
I don't feel competent enough in horary to touch on that chart, so I'm not even going to go there..
But still, you know horary yourself. I saw your old posts, and you used Eris also, which is very impressive from my opinion. Why stop here ? You can't judge my view on this horary, cause yourself you know that it's true, both traditional and hypothetical. Stop bieng skeptical and trust your intuition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi
As for the Einstein one, I was always under the assumption that Uranus was what made him a genius. With Uranus being the ruler of his ninth house in the third, I would think this would make him quite ingenius.
So... it's like this. Since in 1879, Uranus was at the border between Leo/Virgo signs. This means many people whit 9th house Aquarius will have Uranus in 3rd. Therefore lots of people ( many ) will have 'Einstien' minds. This is very strange for you to say, it's very wrong, cause that doesn't prove Einstien uniqueness, actualy you say that the 1879 generation is full of genious people, like Einstien. But if you look at the stelium Kronous/Saturn/Mercury/POF in 10th house Aries, it's very rare ( Kronous was the final ingredient ), only one or two persons can have such thing, this obviously proves his master mind like I said in the previous reply. Such stelium will not repeat again until, if I did the transits right... until 2410 april, and even that date, someone borned whit Kronous/Saturn/Mercury/POF won't be the same like Einstien, but close enough. So you need to look for something unique, Uranus is not enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi
Ah, but you see, they do. What's the validation in astrology if (as far as we know) blank spots in space have as much astrological influence as Mercury, or Neptune, or any of the other planets? The correct answer? Well, there's not much validation in that respect.
NO! your wrong again! they don't form argument against astrology. Give me an example of a book, astrologer, congress, school etc. of astrology that sais that hypotheticals holds argument against the standard planets. Even the Hamburg school of Astrology doesn't say that uranian planets are more important than the old planets, they use the regular planets first, after that they can use the uranians. Haven't you done a 90' degree dail chart? you should have the curiosity one day and do one yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi
Thus, the hypothetical planets are badges of shame astrologers are forced to wear. That is, until all of the hypothetical planets have been located in the exact positions their supposed orbit places them.
The word 'Hypothetical' means something not well supported by available evidence. But in science, art and anything you can think of in this world has a begin. Always, anything new in this world is firstly considerated 'hypothetical'. Since we talk about Albert Einstien, he made the famoust relativity thoery, but to think, when he invented at first, it was entiraly hypothetical, cause it needs proffs, but it was invented, that makes him a pioneer. So saying that hypotheticals are the badges of shame is like saying that all scientists, genious minds, extraordinary personalities whit pioneer way of acting are just bunch of shameful persons. Let's say about Eris, you use that planet a lot, but wasn't it itself a hypothetical planet before it was considerated an existent celestial object? yes it was, so using it earlier means that the astrologers are wrong and shameful, your words not mine.

So it's like this... let's do anything the astronomers say. If they say that a planet is hypothetical, all the astrologer will not use it, cause THE astronomers said so. If they say that Ceres is now dwarf planet, 'ohh hey, we got a new planet, LET'S USE IT'. This is really silly, that means we should consider Pluto less important since astronomers made it dwarf planet.

For me, I don't care what the astronomers or other astrologers say, I do what I think. Also there is the problem that many think that hypotheticals don't exist or their postion around the zodiac could be false. But does that stop us? NO!. Mostly astrologers are afraid of mistake in interpretation, cause they are to scientific oriented. If you trust your intuition ( your heart, not your brain ), even IF you mistake a method in astrology, you will still get a good interpretation. Have intuition without the fear of mistake, cause this world is to much conservatory and dogmatic. We learn astrology by depending on others, books, masters or schools. This is fine for a beginner, but soon you will have to practice it yourself without the help of another astrologer or by the opinions of astronomers. Let's not depend on others to much and let's trust ourself, try to experiment a lot. If you don't believe that a certain object doesn't exist, is because that YOU just think that it doesn't??? or heard that it doesn't exist cause you just heard someone saying the same thing and 'Hey let's believe him, cause he is the expert', well that expert can be wrong sometimes. To prove something wrong or right we need to experiment a lot, that's how you can evolve in astrology, not just reading all day ( let's learn astrology interpretation like cook-book ingredients, instead of learning what was the core for that interpretation? was that author right?, needs lot's of practice and lots and lots of experimenting. ). I repeat again, even if you do mistakes in astrology it means cause you don't believe yourself and your intuition. Let's say that example of Admetos horary ( the above reply ), maybe Admetos doesn't exist at all!!! but if I believe it's there, it's actualy there for me and I made my interpretations right even if my method could be wrong for others. Astrology is much more deeper than we think, to much skepticism and conservatorism will spoil it.

Albert Einstien wanted to prove astrology is wrong, He considerated like many others, a pseudo-hypothetical-science. But why should Albert believe the others? He tested astrology himself, he wanted to prove it wrong, but eventualy he said himself that Astrology has much truth in it. He just practiced and made experiments, and he proved to himself that it's very truth whats going on whit Astrology. We should do the same whit hypotheticals and anything new in astrology, only BY testing we see if it's true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi
Ah, this is because, in Geocentric astrology, the Sun and the other planets are "revolving" around the Earth. It's the same way with Heliocentric astrology, with all of the planets orbiting the Sun as we know it astronomically. This cannot be in the case with the Nemesis system as the Dark Star supposedly orbits around our own Star, and thus its planets revolve around Sol. Our planets do not revolve around the Dark Star, and even if they did, they would probably all be in an eternal oppositon, just like casting a chart from Eris would show everything to be within Virgo-Scorpio, but mostly in Libra at this point.
Ohh come on, I explained this two times, I see you want the third too. I said about Heliocentric/Geocentric astrology so you can realize that Earth and Sun affect eachother, if you think in a larger scale it will be the same whit Dark Star and Sol, if you stop thinking about the planets you will get it.

But I see you want to use planets as extra-solar, very well then. Like I did to Nibiru in the Aivanhov example ( previous post ), I can do it again whit the any other extra-solar planets, both in Nemesis and Solar perspective. Harmonics are still proven to be an exceptional technique ( combining numerology whit astrology ).

Here is a scenario for you. Let's say we are in Nemesis. All the planets and the Sun in the chart should be somewhere in Scorpio sign. Since I don't got any software to do Central Planet refernce point as Nemesis, i'll just imagine the position of the planets whit aproximation. Let's say the central planet calculation is Nemesis, and all the Solar system planets should be somewhere around 23-25 degree Scorpio.

Imaginary positions from Nemesis perspective:
Sun- 24Sco53
Mercury- 24Sco54
Venus- 24Sco53
Mars-24Sco40
Jupiter-24Sco20
Saturn-24Sco59
Uranus-24Sco36
Neptune-24Sco44
Pluto-25Sco11

I repeat this is just a scenario, real position could be slightly different, but this is enough to make everybody understand that extra-solar planets can affect Nemesis.

Since they are all stelium and in eternal opposition whit Nemesis, not even sidereal correction can't help. The answer for this, like whit Nibiru in the previous post, is Harmonics. The non-harmonic factor should be 1. In numerology 1 is the number of individuality. So the ideal is the multiply the extra-solar planets into something bigger, like a microscope magnifing to view really small microorganism. We shall do the same like the microscope. We can multiply to number 10, since 0 in numerology means nothing or everything, but 1+0=1 so still the individuality of the chart will remain the same, it's that it will rebirth into a new form. But 10 is it's to less, let's use 100th harmonic, cause 1+0+0=1 it's still the same individuality, but in a different form, magnified form.

The result is this:

Sun- 24Sco53*100= (24`53'+30`*7)*100=23453`
Mercury- 24Sco54*100=(24`54'+30`*7)*100=23454`
Venus- 24Sco53*100=(24`53'+30`*7)*100=23453`
Mars-24Sco40*100=(24`40'+30`*7)*100=23440`
Jupiter-24Sco20*100=(24`50'+30`*7')*100=23450`
Saturn-24Sco59*100=(24`59'+30`*7)*100=23459`
Uranus-24Sco36*100=(24`36'+30`*7)*100=23436`
Neptune-24Sco44*100=(24`44'+30`*7)*100=23444`
Pluto-25Sco11*100=(25`11'+30`*7)*100=23511`

Ok the numbers are high, 23400 degrees are exactly 65*360, so the result for the sun is 53`, which is 23Taurus00, from the 23453 degrees . It's still a small number for a harmonic, but I manage to despatch that huge stelium on Scorpio. I can multiply to another 10, will result 1000th harmonic, which is again 1+0+0+0=1. same individuality. I repeat, i'm not changing anything, I'm just magnifieng that stelium and it doesn't change anything in the numerological perspective

We continue using 1000th harmonic (100*10), here we go whit calculation again:

Sun- 24Sco53*100= (24`53'+30`*7)*100*10=23453`*10
=>( 23453` -23400` )*10=53`*10=530`=>170`=20Virgo

Mercury- 24Sco54*100=(24`54'+30`*7)*100*10=23454`*10
=> ( 23454` -23400`)*10=54`*10=540`=>180`=0Libra

Venus- 24Sco53*100=(24`53'+30`*7)*100*10=23453`*10
=>( 23453` -23400` )*10=53`*10=530`=>170`=20Virgo

Mars-24Sco40*100=(24`40'+30`*7)*100*10=23440`*10
=> ( 23440` -23400` )*10 = 40`*10=400`=> 40`=10Taurus

Jupiter-24Sco20*100=(24`50'+30`*7')*100*10=23450`*10
=> (23450 - 23400` )*10=50`*10=500`=>140`= 20Leo

Saturn-24Sco59*100=(24`59'+30`*7)*100*10=23459`*10
=> ( 23459` - 23400` )*10 = 59`*10=590`=>230`=20Scorpio

Uranus-24Sco36*100=(24`36'+30`*7)*100*10=23436`*10
=> ( 23436`-23400 )*10=36`*10=360`=>0`=0Aries

Neptune-24Sco44*100=(24`44'+30`*7)*100*10=23444`*10=>
(23444` -23400 )*10= 44`*10=440`=>80`=20Gemeni

Pluto-25Sco11*100=(25`11'+30`*7)*100*10=23511`*10
=> ( 23511` -23400`)*10= 111`*10=1110=>30`=0Taurus

If I did the math right and also the zodiacal degree converting, there we have no more huge stelium or opposition. And Voila!!! A Nemesis-o-centric chart! The idea is to find the interpretation to how the extra-solar planets affect the Nemesis system. Remember the harmonics was for the purpose to despatch the all the aglomeration in the 24Scorpio.
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Re: Extra-Solar and Hypothetical planets

Quote:
So why did the ancient astrologers use the Fixed Stars for ? Just to look at them and say 'oh hey, pretty stars'. No, they didn't use them for nothing, no matter how slow or fixed they are, they had thier purpose and still have thier efficiency even today. A Fixed Star doesn't rule any sign. Therefore a extra-solar planet is the same way and does not need to have *affinity rulership* or *insert disputed sign here*. Also the Sun is a star itself, but still we say, because us as astrologers we use the word 'planet', even if it's just a luminary. People say planet Chiron, even if it's a centaur, a mini-planet or asteroid. Sometimes objects in the sky doesn't need a rulership at all, like Fixed Stars, and look at the example of Nibiru, I didn't use any rulership cause it doesn't have, but does that stop me from using it? nope, it doesn't. It's really wrong to think that we cannot use a object cause it doesn't have rulership/affinity rulership. By the way, the uranian planets ( Cupido, Hades, Zeus, Kronous, Admetos, Apollon, Vulkanus and Poseidon ) are not extra-solar and they belong to our system, and they aren't the only ones around.



Well, it’s my understanding the stars were used because of “astrology” wherein “astro” means “stars” and “ology” means “study of”. Therefore, we have the study of the stars, this was back during a time when they couldn’t tell the difference between planet and star as we know them today. To them, the planets were simply quickly moving stars out of the billions of slower ones. I was not speaking of the Hypos for this particular argument…

Quote:
So... it's like this. Since in 1879, Uranus was at the border between Leo/Virgo signs. This means many people whit 9th house Aquarius will have Uranus in 3rd. Therefore lots of people ( many ) will have 'Einstien' minds. This is very strange for you to say, it's very wrong, cause that doesn't prove Einstien uniqueness, actualy you say that the 1879 generation is full of genious people, like Einstien. But if you look at the stelium Kronous/Saturn/Mercury/POF in 10th house Aries, it's very rare ( Kronous was the final ingredient ), only one or two persons can have such thing, this obviously proves his master mind like I said in the previous reply. Such stelium will not repeat again until, if I did the transits right... until 2410 april, and even that date, someone borned whit Kronous/Saturn/Mercury/POF won't be the same like Einstien, but close enough. So you need to look for something unique, Uranus is not enough.


This is correct, however, like I said, the insertion of so many various bodies and the drawings of aspects between them obstructs the views of aspects to and from Uranus, making it almost impossible to discern them from aspects to something else.

Quote:
NO! your wrong again! they don't form argument against astrology. Give me an example of a book, astrologer, congress, school etc. of astrology that sais that hypotheticals holds argument against the standard planets. Even the Hamburg school of Astrology doesn't say that uranian planets are more important than the old planets, they use the regular planets first, after that they can use the uranians. Haven't you done a 90' degree dail chart? you should have the curiosity one day and do one yourself.


No, they do form an argument against astrology, and I feel it to be a very valid one. I do not need book, author, congress, or school to bring up a point to make it valid, the mere existence of the thought is enough of a threat to be treated in such ways. Luckily, we live in a society where astrology is mostly frowned upon, so they don’t even know the Moon can be in a sign, not to mention such a concept as non-existant bodies influencing their charts. I find this a disgraceful view of astrology, it is too vast and wondrous as it stands now to go around and begin creating imaginary bodies. Such a waste.


Quote:
The word 'Hypothetical' means something not well supported by available evidence. But in science, art and anything you can think of in this world has a begin. Always, anything new in this world is firstly considerated 'hypothetical'. Since we talk about Albert Einstien, he made the famoust relativity thoery, but to think, when he invented at first, it was entiraly hypothetical, cause it needs proffs, but it was invented, that makes him a pioneer. So saying that hypotheticals are the badges of shame is like saying that all scientists, genious minds, extraordinary personalities whit pioneer way of acting are just bunch of shameful persons. Let's say about Eris, you use that planet a lot, but wasn't it itself a hypothetical planet before it was considerated an existent celestial object? yes it was, so using it earlier means that the astrologers are wrong and shameful, your words not mine.


Yes, things that have no evidence to support them are indeed called hypothetical, but to bring out the guns saying that “These bodies do not exist, they are made up, but we’re going to use them in charts anyway” is ridiculous and a huge slap in the face. Granted, some hypothetical things are proven, and if a body was to be discovered in the exact location the available ephermis say it is in and follows the exact orbit said ephermis says it shall, then I will accept that body as the hypothetical planet it is now named to be. This is a vastly tall order to fill. Comparing Eris to a body that does not exist is ludicrous and an “apples to oranges” case.

I see no point in all the math if, as you said at first, all of the planets would be almost directly opposite that of 24° Taurus. THIS would be a Nibiru-centric chart, having nothing to do with math to MAKE the planets be in different positions, but creating a chart the way it would really work.
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