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Natal Astrology A place to discuss yours and others' birth charts (after you post your own birth chart interpretation). Includes psychological and relocation astrology, houses, aspects, and planetary dignity and debility.


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  #1  
Unread 07-10-2006, 08:29 AM
Miss Saturn Miss Saturn is offline
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Afraid to look at at Sons Natal Chart

I have been afraid of looking at my babys Natal Chart, I have seen his chart and read a few planetary aspects, and positions in his chart. I have never fully examined it. I think the reason being as his mum I am going to be protective and if I see Pluto or Saturn making hard contacts in his chart, I begin to worry.

When proffessional Astrologers, do a childs Astrological Report, they probably tone down the harsher issues within in the chart, they have to be a lot more sensitive and consider it is a childs chart, and you wouldn't want to frighten the parents.

Perhaps I need to take the view that these are his energies, he has come here to learn how to handle his energies, he chose me and his father to be his parents. We are all learning and growing in this world together. It is easier to look at my parents or my partners chart, because they are grown adults and I can see how the energy is being handled.

My son has Pluto in the 4th, squaring his Sun in the 1st house. I get worried because my partner works very long hours, and the bond has been broken. My son crys all the time when my boyfriend tries to spend time with him.

I talked it through with my partner yesterday, because he was feeling hurt and rejected. I explained to him because when the baby was born he had his mum and dad there constantly together, because my partner wasn't working then. Now there has been a big loss to him because he hardly sees his father, and he clings to me because I am the main person in his life, I am his world. Maybe he clings to me because he is afraid I will leave also. I joked with my partner, I said as soon as he's walking he will want to be outside with his dad playing football, he won't want to be with boring mummy all day. It will be mum who.

I don't want the bond between them broken, I said to my partner with all the priority you give to work, you need to balance it out, you do overtime in work, you can do overtime here at home, the reward will far outweigh money.

My son feels rejected, so he rejects his father and the cycle will continue. Maybe this is a wake up call to my boyfriend, you don't want to lose out on the valuable relationship. I feel my son feeling it all emotionally I can sense the difference in him. It hurts me to see him and his father feeling this pain.

I will be brave and work out the difficulties in his chart, a birth chart represents his potential for personal growth, and the challenges to overcome.

I read a lovely book and it shows how to nurture your childrens spirits, how to guide your children, I won't type the whole chapters out, but I feel it is really valuble advice for anyone with children, trying to do your best to create the most safe and secure world for them, here are a few pointers.

1, Encourage and Nurture Self esteem

2, Get to know your child

3,Be a Best Friend

4,Teach Self- respect and Responsibility

5,Be Open-minded and Spiritually Aware

6,Remember that children are watching You

7,Teach your child Self-reliance

8,Celebrate Individuality

I am not giving a parent class here, I am learning how to be Mother myself, energies I have never been comfortable with, If anyone handed me a baby I would be terrified, handed the child back quickly . I have never felt nurturing, although I am a very sensitive caring person could never hurt a single creature on this planet. Mothering has never come easy to me.

Anyone looking at their New babys Birth chart, try not to worry and think the worst, everyone of us has bad aspects in our charts. Try not to take it as a reflection of your parenting, if you care for your children and guide them and follow the steps above, you are doing the best job you can do. Your child may percieve the world a certain way, but inside your child is a beautiful soul, here to learn how to handle his own energies. As you the parent are learning in this world how to face your challenges too.

If anyone would like to help me with his chart it would nice to hear a view from a different perspective, but be gentle he's only young.

14th September 2005
06.48am
Liverpool, England

Miss S


Last edited by Miss Saturn; 07-10-2006 at 08:44 AM.
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  #2  
Unread 07-10-2006, 09:38 AM
Miss Saturn Miss Saturn is offline
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Re: Afraid to look at at Sons Natal Chart

Was just looking at my Partners Transits to see what was going on and he has the Transiting Sun Squaring his Midheaven.

Meaning of Transit- Private life/ Public life balance, also means Parental Conflicts.

This would explain why the issues have come up now, but transits are there for a reason to highlight your issues at certain times, to face yourself and work with your challenges.

Although my partner feels hurt and exhausted at the moment, I hope it has highlighted the importance of balncing work and family. There is nothing wrong in building a career for yourself- but do not put work in front of family.

Miss S
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  #3  
Unread 07-10-2006, 01:53 PM
Rubella Rubella is offline
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Re: Afraid to look at at Sons Natal Chart

Miss Saturn,

If you don't mind, I'll throw in my two cents.

I think you're worrying yourself too early in the game, your son is so young, too young to have his chart read. I think this is one of the pitfalls of astrology, the temptation... but I think that at least for the first 3-4 years he should get the opportunity to explore the world and himself without you knowing "too much".

Perhaps he is sensing your worry? maybe that is what is making him agitated.
You could develop expectations according to the chart and he may take it to a totally different direction you didn't think about it.

Just what I think, hope I made sense
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Unread 07-10-2006, 02:51 PM
archergirl archergirl is offline
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Re: Afraid to look at at Sons Natal Chart

Miss Saturn, I'll also throw in my thruppence...I've got two young kids, and I understand full-well your worry. I think childrens' charts may often reflect the stuff going on around them when they are born: my firstborn, a boy, has a lovely, gentle chart with Libra Moon in the 11th opposing Venus in the 5th, a real loverboy who really loves his Mummy, with Jupiter in the 4th for happy childhood. Libra Moon people (I've read, don't know if it's true) are said to be born in an attempt to reconcile the father and mother (like, if we have a baby we'll be okay). *This* was certainly true in my son's case, as I wanted to have a child very badly before he came to be, while my husband was ...um... a little resistant when he discovered I was pregnant. Still, I kept the baby, I kept the man. He's a good dad, surprising both of us.

My second child, a daughter, has a much more challenging chart, with late Leo moon in the 6th *opposing* Uranus in the 12th! Urk! She was born at a time when I was NOT having a good time with life; I *hated* being pregnant that second time, had diabetes, felt trapped, shackled, doomed (Moon in 6th opposed to Uranus in 12th). She is a beautiful, intelligent, fiercely independent little girl and I love her deeply, but I interpret this aspect as her seeing me as a strong-willed (Leo) dutiful (6th house) mother with a secret or not-so-secret wish to be independent (Uranus in 12th). And this is true. (At one point when post-natal depression nearly felled me, I wondered if this aspect meant that she had an insane mother...seriously.)

Like you, I worry incessantly about how I might be screwing my kids up; I look at their charts and worry some more. But Rubella is correct; if you worry too much about it you take away the joys of discovery. Predestination or Free Will? Only God knows...

And remember, two people can grow up with identical charts and identical upbringings (like my niece and nephew, who are twins), and still turn out VERY different from one another (as they are): so really, no matter how badly parents mess up (or feel they are messing up, which is more often the case! ), the child still has his own path in front of him, will make his own choices when he's older, and make his own mistakes.

You are right to just focus on loving your child and letting him be free to develop the *best* parts of the aspects in his chart. Does having moon in Capricorn mean he has a cold mother? No. It means he has a mother who takes mothering seriously; as a result, he will take himself seriously. Does having Pluto squaring his Sun from the 4th mean he'll have a bad relationship with his father? Not necessarily, although he *may* struggle, perhaps, with his own sense of power and identity as separate from that of 'Da Family', and that is something we all do in our own fashion.

Just enjoy being a Mum and relax about the charts, if you can. It might be helpful to just put the chart away until he's ready to leave the nest. Being a mother is hard enough without castigating yourself constantly for what you 'might' be doing 'wrong', according to the chart. If your son is clothed, fed, cuddled, kissed, and above all HEARD and acknowledged, I'm sure he'll turn out just *fine*. Most of us do, despite our parents' best (or worst) attempts at parenting.

And as for your partner, it is often MUCH harder for men to adjust to being parents than it is for women: we're hard-wired to do it, no matter how un-maternal we think we are (I was also one of those non-mothering types). Whereas childrearing is *nearly* an instinctive thing for many (not all) women, for men it is *nearly* always a learned behaviour (there are of course exceptions!). Men also judge themselves NOT by their relationships or their children, but by their careers, and it may be that he is focussing so much on career to compensate for a [perceived] loss of control on the parenting/home front. So don't be too hard on him. It's a big change for him, too, and men are a little slow and thick sometimes in figuring stuff out..

One final thing: I would agree with all the points you said about parenting children, with one exception (and feel free to disagree, this is only my opinion). That would be the 'be a best friend' one. Children need *parents*; they make best friends at school. Parents are there to set boundaries, imprint children with an ethical code, self-esteem, and to give them a perspective by which to view the world: is the world scary and full of people I can't trust? Is it a dangerous place? Is it a beautiful place full of good happenings and kindness? A *good* parent, I believe, is one who the child knows will listen to them, and be able to provide sound advice which the child can trust. That may make them 'like a friend', but I really feel, after two kids and watching other parents in the neighbourhood try to be 'friends' with their kids, that the parenting role is much different, and MUCH more important. Your child won't always like you! but if you handle it well, he will respect you and trust you, and in this world where people don't seem to give a rat's ar*e about anything but themselves, respect and trust will be the most important things he learns!

Gosh, that's more like five quid's worth, not a thruppence! You'll be fine.
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Unread 07-10-2006, 04:09 PM
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Lunar Pisces Lunar Pisces is offline
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Re: Afraid to look at at Sons Natal Chart

I've done infant charts before, but I always caution against people clinging too rigidly to the interpretation. The most important thing to remember for a parent who's using astrology to guide them in parenting them child is that ultimately, your child will teach you who he or she is, not their chart. A chart is just a tool, and there will be times that it is the wrong tool to use. there will be definte times that you as the parent will find that such a tool simply gets in the way of what you know you must do as a parent, so don't give his chart so much wieght. If at any time astrological interpretations, or your understanding of them, impede you from following your parental intuition and conscience, then abandon them.

Anyhow, i have something to say about your son's chart. This earth Grand Trine, involving Sun, Merc, Mars and Moon (and yes it's a Grand Trine - don't let people fuss over orbs) is a pretty powerful configuration in this chart. It involves 4 personal planet, and one point falls on his ASC. To contradict about what I said about not clinging too tightly to interpretations, I'll say you can bank on this being very important.

So let's discuss Grand Trines. They're often labelled "easy" or "lazy" but that's misleading. What they are is "self-contained" and that has its pros and cons. Grand Trine people tend to be self-contained, self-reliant people who don't need to make huge demands on others or need a lot of help in whatever areas the Grand Trine contacts. Being an earth Grand trine that's contacting the 1H, 5H and 8H, this likely means your son will be very emotionally and mentally self-reliant and have a fairly stable sense of self. He may also exhibit very early on an earthy tendency to "possess" his environment, changing it to his preferences. These are traits that have a lot of positive potential, even though growing up they will present several challenges along the way.

With any Grand Trine child, give and take is something you'll have to learn. You'll also have to learn that if your son acts like he doesn't need you to help him, or resists your assistence, to not take it personally. Simply allow him to explore and experiment on his own, and you can be involved by asking him questions about what he's doing/what he's learning, giving him verbal encouragement and praise, and so forth. Just remember there will be times that you can let him go on his own, and other times you'll need to intervene, despite his protestations. Grand Trine children usually exhibit an independant spirit fairly early on, yet they still need structure, guidence and protection from their parents.

Another challenging trait of a Grand Trine child is that being so self-reliant early on, they may not get the exposure to various experiences, especially socially, that other children do. This is likely one way you'll need to intervene. Grand Trine children tend to resist cooperative play and group activities early on. They may appear to be "loners" or focus on one friend. They can be dominating on a play ground, bossing other kids around, or they may wander off to play by themselves. They may be very stubborn in doing activities they don't wish to do. The challenge here for the parent is to positively encourage and re-enforce cooperation, sharing and interaction, without suppressing the child's need to be self-reliant. It sound tricky, but you'll likely find that if you an stike a balance. He'll let you know how much he can handle, and don't force him into doing anything that drains him too much. Somedays he may need to play by himself, while other times, he can be expected to play with other kids, even if he doesn't really want to. There's nothing wrong with playing alone, as long as he's not missing opportunities to develop socially.
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Unread 07-10-2006, 05:11 PM
Miss Saturn Miss Saturn is offline
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Re: Afraid to look at at Sons Natal Chart

Hi Rubella,

You made Perfect sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubella
Perhaps he is sensing your worry? maybe that is what is making him agitated.
What you said about my son sensing my mood, is very true after reading these posts earlier on I lightened up on the issue, and just enjoyed playing games with him. My sons entire mood changed, he brightened up and I got his gorgeous little smiles back. Before when I was holding him, he just smiled at me and snuggled in to sleep. I do think I am worrying needlessly. Also I think me reading negatives in the chart like you said is putting expectations on him to be a certain way.

Thankyou Rubella

Miss S
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Unread 07-10-2006, 05:17 PM
Rubella Rubella is offline
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Re: Afraid to look at at Sons Natal Chart

You welcome, Mis S
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Unread 07-10-2006, 05:57 PM
Miss Saturn Miss Saturn is offline
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Re: Afraid to look at at Sons Natal Chart

Hi Archergirl,

Your a funny gal, your post was funny and cheered me up. Your five quid is in the post by the way. ( Ha ha don't bank on it, your talking to tight fisted Saturn here )

You certainly know your Astrology, wise lady indeed. I guess my problem is I am interpreting the chart from how he sees me, like you and Rubella said I need to stop my worrying (Virgo Ascendant). I will take the joy out of motherhood if I don't relax. He will eventually follow his own path in life and make his own choices. My job is to nurture him provide for him till he leaves the nest and has to fly on his own.

I was worrying about the whole Capricorn Moon, meaning he sees me as cold and uncaring. Then again if he had an Aries Moon I would think he thought I was selfish or pushy and worry about that placement.

I worry all the time about making mistakes, have I responded quick enough to his cry. When he does cry is it because of me, am I not giving him enough love. I need to take a chill pill.

Also the being the best friend to the child, your view is right. If I am too friendly my son won't respect my authority when I need to use it, or listen to what I am saying to him.

Thanks Archergirl you are full of wisdom once again. Hopefully I will in time gain a perspective on life which you have, and also have a sense of humour like you, to see the lighter and brighter side of life. Not too much seriousness.

Wise words from a kind heart with a bit of your cheekiness thrown in.

Miss S

Last edited by Miss Saturn; 07-10-2006 at 06:49 PM.
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Unread 07-10-2006, 06:32 PM
Miss Saturn Miss Saturn is offline
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Re: Afraid to look at at Sons Natal Chart

Hi Lunar Pisces,

Thankyou also for taking a gentle approach to looking at his chart, I haven't seen this grand trine before, because I haven't spent too much time examining his chart. He has a lot of planets in Earth Ascendant Sun, Moon, Mercury and Mars. With a Grand trine joining them all up as well. Yes this would be significant.

He is a little willful, with lots of energy, I suppose children are. He has Mars Trining his Sun and Moon. If I remembered it right.

I will give him gentle guidance, when he needs it and like you said know when to step back if he wants to do his own thing. It's nice to know he will be emotionally and mentally stable. With Self Reliance.

I will watch he doesn't get too self contained though, and encourage him to play with the other children. Also he is slightly stubborn, if he doesn't want his nappy changed and just wants to play, he is quite willful and breaks free crawling round the place with no nappy on. I will just laugth now and manage to sneak it on when he is standing up by the couch/setee. It is better If I don't get into a battle with him I find it easier just distracting him. His Father takes it too seriously and shouts which makes the situation worse. That's parenthood for you.

Also my chart has mostly Water, boyfriends is alot of Fire, and as you know my sons is full of Earth, I only need a little girl now with a chart which has lots of Air.

Appreciated you looking at my sons chart, and reading it in positive way.

Miss S
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Unread 07-10-2006, 09:29 PM
archergirl archergirl is offline
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Re: Afraid to look at at Sons Natal Chart

You'll be fine, Miss Saturn. That you worry so much about whether you're a good parent is a good sign; it means that, more often than not, you'll probably make the right choice for your child. Don't be too critical of yourself for your 'mistakes'. Parenting is a huge learning curve and I don't think anyone ever does it perfectly!
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Unread 07-10-2006, 11:10 PM
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Re: Afraid to look at at Sons Natal Chart

Hi there Miss S - just one thing to keep in mind ... until the age of 6/7 your little one will be sharing your etheric body. It is quite likely that he's picking up on your worry and your stress and reacting to it. The seperation will only start happening when he starts school and (according to my Dad's theory) it will only finally and completely seperate when he's 21!

So chill out and take it easy for the moment
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Unread 07-10-2006, 11:14 PM
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Re: Afraid to look at at Sons Natal Chart

Oh and a tale of caution - my astrology lecturer had a look at her son's chart when he was young and it had a particularly distressing aspect - which mainly meant that he would probably die in an accident of some nature or violence before he reached the age of 30.

She says that this had caused her to keep her distance and not become as involved with him as she would have ... maybe in some way trying not to get too attached to him in case he's taken from her prematurely. She says she regrets it now because it has caused lasting damage to her relationship with him.

On the other hand, her understanding of his chart allowed her to ensure that he made it through school - he didn't learn the way most kids do, so they danced the multiplication tables etc Basically, don't get too hung up on potential difficulties in your son's chart ... he'll be fine and so will you
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Unread 07-11-2006, 08:11 PM
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Unhappy Re: Afraid to look at at Sons Natal Chart

Ms. Saturn, it'll be ok. I have my sun/venus/mercury all in pisces, in my 5th house, so ive been obsessed with being a mom since i was wee girl! once my son was born, I became totally stressed! Because of the relationship with my own mother, i was always afraid. I looked at my son't chart briefly. I'm scared too. He's a military kid. Me and his dad[my now ex-hubby] moved around alot. I would pray that he's not scarred in some way, or will grow up and hate me or something. I saw that his moon was in his 7th house..I was like god noooooo he also has saturn in taurus there too, his dad is a taurus. I rarely give my son's birth info. My astrolger[hi shelley! ] is always asking to do his chart, and i won't let her!!

I was born March 11th 1973 @8:26 pm, in New York, ny. I'm probably one of those obssesed moms a child dreads...ha!
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Unread 07-11-2006, 08:32 PM
Miss Saturn Miss Saturn is offline
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Re: Afraid to look at at Sons Natal Chart

Thankyou everybody for the kind words, and ShadowRain your lecturer I feel so sorry for her, how distressing that would have been. Although I didn't think you could predict death in the chart, but I wouldn't want to learn, thanks for the caution.

Miss S
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Unread 07-11-2006, 09:42 PM
Miss Saturn Miss Saturn is offline
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Re: Afraid to look at at Sons Natal Chart

Hi PiscesKitty,

It would be best not to have your childs chart read being a strong Pisces like me we will only think the worst.

Not sure how many of your placements are in mutable signs. I have a lot of planets in mutable and add my Ascendant Virgo to this I am very Mutable. Here is what I have read on Mutable signs.

Mutable Signs

I think the most interesting modality is Mutable. Much of what happens to multable people is in the head. So many times things are going on mentally rather than in a tangible form. Clients with many multable aspects are often influenced by whats going on in the rest of the chart. They adjust and adapt to other influences. Because they work on a mental level, those with a lot of multibility may react to an aspect by making a list. When the list is done, they think the project is done. With negative tension, much of what happens involves fear, paranoia, agitation, and panic attacks.

While Multable people experience actual events, the hardest part of the process is the psychological anguish they experience. I'm extremely careful when telling something negative or difficult to clients with a lot of multability, because when they leave they only remember the bad things I say, never the good. I can say twenty good things and one negative thing, and guess what they take with them?

I think this is my major problem believing the worse.

Miss S

Last edited by Miss Saturn; 07-12-2006 at 04:31 AM.
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Unread 07-14-2006, 04:03 PM
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Re: Afraid to look at at Sons Natal Chart

I'm a Pisces with My moon in Gemini, so I really understand the entire Mutable thing. I do tend to focus on the negative alot. I get worried very easily. I find it hard to just kick back and relax sometimes!
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Unread 08-09-2008, 05:49 AM
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Re: Afraid to look at at Sons Natal Chart

"I joked with my partner, I said as soon as he's walking he will want to be outside with his dad playing football, he won't want to be with boring mummy all day. It will be mum who."
You are very right! The boy has asc in Virgo, he is Mercury, on the asc is the Sun, the father, in the placement of Mercury! The link will be very strong between them I think, Dad Sun highlights the son Mercury, but copies also his son...
You are afraid of Pluto? You have the wisdom to know, the boy made the choice to have this soul near him, for as long it is arranged..
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Unread 08-11-2008, 07:08 AM
AquariusT AquariusT is offline
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Re: Afraid to look at at Sons Natal Chart

What sign are you?
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