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Electional and Event Astrology Discuss here astrologically good times to do things, and what's happening astrologically when something major happens. Includes sports astrology.


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  #1  
Unread 06-29-2008, 01:35 PM
Raindrops Raindrops is offline
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3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

I've studied this electional chart for almost 2 weeks now. I've tried looking at them from all different perspectives (even as three individual people =P), however, that did not work out like I hoped it would, hehe.

Which one would you pick?


CHART 1)

CHART 2)

CHART 3)


Last edited by Raindrops; 09-29-2009 at 01:13 PM.
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  #2  
Unread 06-29-2008, 03:01 PM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

My advice to you is to break it up into more than one chart. You're never going to have a great chart for everything you want because you have to spread your focus everywhere. So, I'd break it up into two parts, separating school from your want to just get away from everyone first, then worry about setting up an election for when you want to go and apply for school.
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Unread 06-29-2008, 04:00 PM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

Ah okay, that makes sense.

Last edited by Raindrops; 09-29-2009 at 01:13 PM.
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Unread 06-29-2008, 04:19 PM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

Keep planets out of the Twelfth if you want to live. :P
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Unread 06-29-2008, 05:04 PM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

Seriously? =P
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Unread 06-29-2008, 05:33 PM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

No, you don't. You just want to have your significator separating from theirs. You're literally leaving them behind. Put them in a Cadent house so that they don't have the power to follow you, and keep your significator in at least a Succedant house, or in a house of more powerful virtue than the one you choose to put them in. I suppose you could be Venus to make yourself hidden, but I wouldn't put you in the Twelfth house.

Ever.
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Unread 06-29-2008, 11:24 PM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

Perhaps, but I also think waiting a few minutes until Libra rises would be good too. This way you're still accidentally strong in the Tenth house and have some Triplicity bonuses (not as strong as Mercury), but your trail is covered by being Combust of Sol.

This is so strange, I'm usually attempting to do the opposite. Make people noticed instead of keeping them hidden.
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Unread 06-30-2008, 12:08 AM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

Hmmm okay. Ohhh... I remember that she said she would use mercury as the ASC's ruler because I am a Gemini rising.... and the chart's ASC must relate somehow to my rising sign. Think I should still move it to Libra?
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Unread 06-30-2008, 01:12 AM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

I don't know where she got that idea to relate it like that. You can choose whichever, really. I'll be interested regardless.
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Unread 06-30-2008, 02:51 AM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

Hi, I'm following this thread with interest. I am concerned about the harrasser's significator, jupiter being retrograde...In horary I thought we were supposed to avoid using retro sigs...Is that right? Does it apply to electional too?
The other thing that worries me is that the combustion of moon and sun, even though a *new moon* is a very poor aspect...sure, things can be hidden under it but after the moon separates the matter often surfaces.
Personally I think I'd approach it from giving yourself the very strongest rulers and placements...Your wish is to be *invisible*, but not to all.A fortified house 11 may really help.With eclipses coming up it will be indeed difficult to keep matters under wraps, but if your ruler is strong and well placed you should be safe.
I agree with Kai about keeping the twelfth free of affliction-this is the house of self undoing-you dont want anything going on there!
The strongest planet in the sky at the moment is Mercury.But Mercury is very changeable, not solid, not long term.
A strong moon might be your best bet, but I would have the moon in a strong sign, house and making positive applying aspects to the ruler of your first.
Just my two bobs worth.
Lillyjgc
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Unread 06-30-2008, 09:37 AM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

Raindrops,
The chart out of all three you've posted that I think works better is chart 2.
With chart one, the sig of your enemy is accidentally dignified in an angular house-in fact *your home*.With your sig applying to a square with Uranus,iin jupiter's sign* I might interpret that as the potential for a nasty surprise from the house of said enemy!
Chart two works-theres the inconjunct between merc and jupiter (planets that cant see each other)
Chart three: I dont like the moon being in the twelfth and the mars/saturn cj is bothering me in this chart....(I know its gotta go somewhere....)
Anyway if you really do have to go at this unfavourable time, I'd say chart two is your better choice.
Cheers, Lillyjgc
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Unread 06-30-2008, 03:46 PM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

Raindrops,
I've had a little more time to study the options:
1.Choosing the major significators-
These are the options for placement on the ascendant/descendant axis.
Venus/Mars....(libra or Taurus and Aries or Scorpio). These two planets will conjunct around september 12 in real time in the sign of Libra.)
Venus will be in dignity and mars will be in detriment.However, if you give Venus to yourself, the *enemy*gets mars. If you choose these two as sigs (which seems inappropriate to me), it would be better if you had the upper hand when that conjunction occurs.

If you choose Mercury and Jupiter as the sigs, as discussed above, mercury is fast and strong in Gemini but moving to cancer, where its not so strong. Jupiter being radix will take a long time to acquire any essential dignities other than by house placement. These two are currently inconjunct which is good for your purposes, and they next move to opposition (20 July *real time*)

If you choose moon and Saturn I think the situation becomes unstable, with you as the moon. The moon will sextile Saturn on July 2 then conjunct Saturn on July 7-something you DON'T want.

If you choose the sun and Saturn, they will be conjunct on Sept 4 in Virgo-Mercury's sign.
So, all things considered it looks like Mercury/Jupiter are Ok as the sigs but getting the houses right is the next important bit.(I dont like the idea of the enemy's sig being in your house of death, either)

If you are to be Mercury, in dignity in Gemini, its also important to note that mercury is not making any applying aspects, void of course. I dont know if this would help or hinder your cause.(What do others think?)

What I don't like about chart 2. is the fact that your house of finance is where that combustion of sun moon occurs, and venus applies to an opposition with jupiter-the *enemy*....A lack of money could be a real issue here.
Your schooling, house 3, is ruled by the sun, weak in this chart by sign and position.The sun too applies to an opposition to jupiter...

The outcome of the matter, house 4, contains that nasty mars/saturn conjunction, in mercury's (your) sign...That suggests hardships to me, which could affect your health as mars rules your sixth house in this chart.The sun also rules house 4 , giving the sun a lot of *say* in the chart and the sun is not strong.

Raindrops, my honest advice to you is to maybe delay this very major move. I understand why you chose the *new moon* etc, representing *new beginnings* at least in celtic folklore, but in astrology it means something altogether different, unfavourable.

Another approach to the situation might be to *transcend* your fear and set up an election chart that puts YOU in the spotlight and he in a besieged, unfavourable position.-just a change of emphasis really.At the moment, no planet really affords you a great chance of a smooth transition.
Another problem with Jupiter being the Sig of those you seek to elude, is that I have read that a retrograde planet is actually MORE malefic-that worries me...
Can you delay?
Cheers, Lillyjgc
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  #13  
Unread 06-30-2008, 04:06 PM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

Hey Lilly, long time.

The one thing I see that I'm uneasy with is I don't think we want Raindrops to be a strong planet. Strong planets get noticed, we don't want that. That's the only reason I feel comfortable with making him a planet in Combustion, it's still hidden, but it does not carry the same unfortunate effects that a Twelfth house planet does. That's why I think Venus does well to represent him. Mars has about slipped into Virgo, leaving Venus in Cancer and we want Mars to leave Venus in some respect, and Mars has even less power in the feminine Sign of Virgo. The only problem is that they can mutually receive each other via Triplicity.

By the way, what should have us all concerned is that Luna's last aspect will be an opposition with Jupiter. Discovery.

Concerning the retrograde, I know in lost object horaries the retrogradtion of the significator of the item promises a quick return. Wonder if it's the same concept here.

I also don't agree with you being in any way signified by Luna unless you use that third chart.
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Unread 06-30-2008, 04:25 PM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

LillyJGV -- wow, thank you for such a detailed answer. I know so little about this topic that it helps to see other's conclusions.

Last edited by Raindrops; 09-29-2009 at 01:15 PM.
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  #15  
Unread 06-30-2008, 06:19 PM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

SO, even though the venus/sun conjunction is 7 degrees apart and separating, this still means it is "combust" and bad?
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Unread 06-30-2008, 08:32 PM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

You're trying to put too many things in one chart!!! We're only focusing on leaving your harrassing parent behind. That's what we should focus on. I feel that any of the three charts would do this well, so don't sweat it so much.
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Unread 06-30-2008, 09:49 PM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

just one thing that kai has mentioned........you said Kai that you dont want to make raindrops strong, or else she might get noticed.....cmon....you dont want her to be in fall or debility either.....

I think everyone is way to hung up on the 12th house being a bad house....it is the house of secrecy....it need not be any worse than that.....

glad your finding some answers at last raindrops....sorry i couldnt help further. ..
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  #18  
Unread 07-01-2008, 01:59 AM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

I think I'm goin to buy a big pile of books on electional astrology when I finally reach my destination. =P
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  #19  
Unread 07-01-2008, 03:25 AM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

LTJ. Never underestimate the impact and malevolence of the twelfth house.Not so much in natal, but very much so in horary and electional.It isn't only the house of secrecy- its the house of *self-undoing*, hidden enemies, that which we cannot *see*.
Raindrops,
Saturn rules the ninth in chart 2. Saturn makes no applying aspects.This isnt good for study.

Quote:
The sad thing is I am going to a great school and hope to "get noticed" by the professors and be allowed into get on a team of this upcoming project that is pretty big. LOL. I plan to "sneak out" (Without leaving any trail behind me) and go have fun at school, far, far far away from home.

Maybe put the sun in the ninth then, but thats the enemies third of *communications*....
Kai is right- you are trying to do an all inclusive chart with a bunch of planets in debility!!!It isnt easy.Main goal is not to be found, I take it.Stick with that for now. Later you can make new choices, based on new charts.
Were I you, I might've started this process with a horary_ *will I escape without notice?* or something like that. The horary would help to set up the election.
Just a thought for *next time*.
Your thread has raised some very interesting considerations, so thanks for posting it...
I hope you will let us know *what happened*.
Safe trip.
Lillyjgc
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Unread 07-01-2008, 05:27 AM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

Quote:
I think I'm goin to buy a big pile of books on electional astrology when I finally reach my destination. =P
You won't. There aren't any, none good anyway beside Robson's. Hampar doesn't know what she's talking about, so please avoid her book.

Quote:
LTJ. Never underestimate the impact and malevolence of the twelfth house.Not so much in natal, but very much so in horary and electional.It isn't only the house of secrecy- its the house of *self-undoing*, hidden enemies, that which we cannot *see*.
This is definately true. The Twelfth house is THE most hostile area of the horoscope, not only is it associated with hidden enemies, self-undoing, secrecy, and incarceration, we must also remember that it's the Temple of Saturn.

Quote:
Main goal is not to be found, I take it.Stick with that for now. Later you can make new choices, based on new charts.
This is definately true, and I've said it about four times now. One goal per chart, or else you're going to be in a rocking chair (you're doing a lot of work but not getting anywhere). The point of this chart is to escape your parent, let's leave it at that without considering anything else. If you just absolutely have to, you can elect a chart for academics when the time comes to enroll for classes, but this isn't a chart I would recommend doing. As much as I love electional astrology and as much practice as I would enjoy getting out of it, I do not use it very often and I suggest having the same stance about any form of astrology. Don't overwork it.

The last time I used an electional chart was in January to gain back a scholarship.

Quote:
just one thing that kai has mentioned........you said Kai that you dont want to make raindrops strong, or else she might get noticed.....cmon....you dont want her to be in fall or debility either.....
Nope, that's why I keep suggesting Venus. Got Triplicity during the day in Cancer and can get accidental dignity by being angular, but is also hidden under Sol. That's the planet I'm shooting for.
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Unread 07-01-2008, 06:16 AM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

lilly and Kai....
thanks for the clarification...i kind of admitted that i didnt have a clue what i was doing when raindrops had another thread.....the 3rd chart was mine......but i am glad you have all come to the table with your info...i had suggested you Kai...cos i was unsure....i kind of wanted to have a go though....dont learn anything not trying.....

perhaps the lights below the horizon would have a good effect on the hiding after all?
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Unread 07-01-2008, 08:12 AM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

Ok Raindrops: Try this chart...Its set for Sydney Australia and I'm assuming you're northern hemisphere? So you'll have to adjust it using the GMT time so that the charts right for where you are:
Taking Kai's advice I put Taurus (venus) on the asc...a fixed sign....What say you?
Chart drawn for 02:44:23
03 July 2008
Sydney Australia
14.32 Taurus rising
(0 DST)

What I like about this chart is this:Your ruler venus will not *see* mars by aspect for a long time.Venus applies a trine to uranus which in turn applies a sextile to jupiter, and jupiter is on cusp of your ninth. The ascendant will trine it in 4 (long) somethings.
Venus is on cusp of house 3...also journeys and education/schooling.The ascendant will sextile venus in 3 *long* somethings.These assist your goals.

The moon is dignified in cancer and after the combustion with sol will touchdown on your venus. Nice.
The nasty mars sat conjunction is now in house 4- *his* sig though conjuncts Saturn in the house of endings.The moon is separating from mars and saturn-EXCELLENT!
This puts mercury in your house of money and mercury is strong in gemini and is trine the MC.Good.
Fortuna will touch down on your ascendant in 6 *somethings* also....
What say you?
Lillyjgc


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Last edited by lillyjgc; 08-20-2008 at 01:51 AM.
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Unread 07-01-2008, 11:12 PM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, when I calculate Lilly's chart... Mars falls in the beginning of the 5th House. Must be a different house system?
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Unread 07-02-2008, 01:34 AM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

You're looking WAY too far into things. You're making it much more complicated than it needs to be by digging up other things to look at. Just go ahead and see what happens when you take the first chart. After all, you did pay for it. Pity to waste the money.

Just a couple comments though.

Quote:
Venus is on cusp of house 3...also journeys and education/schooling.
This is true, but not collegic level studies, those are the Ninth house. By putting Venus here you've accidentally debilitated her by making her cadent, if we were going to use Venus it probably would have been a better idea to make Libra rising, this should put Cancer on the Tenth or Eleventh and we could put Venus in either of these houses for the desired result. Though, the Tenth does risk some exposure to the public, whereas the Eleventh is not so 'in your face', but gives the project room to grow.

Quote:
The moon is dignified in cancer and after the combustion with sol will touchdown on your venus.
This is something I do enjoy, but for a different reason. What Lilly's done here is hidden your trip by making the Third house significator Combust, but successful in the fact that Luna has some much strength. However, this does not make up for the rest of the chart, I fear.

Quote:
The nasty mars sat conjunction is now in house 4- *his* sig though conjuncts Saturn in the house of endings.The moon is separating from mars and saturn-EXCELLENT!
Whose sig? I didn't realize we had anyone being represented by the Fourth house. I, personally, don't like the malefics in this house, it's too important and we don't want the end of the matter to blow up in our faces because of a malefic mess. Remember, neither of these planets are particularly happy in Virgo, so I do expect some acting out on their part.

Quote:
This puts mercury in your house of money and mercury is strong in gemini and is trine the MC
While I do think this is okay, I don't feel it's important to the situation and all conditions of the Second house (and other) lords can be overlooked right now.

Great job stuffing the Lord of the Eighth, though.

Unfortunately, what I'm not comfortable with is Menkar on the Ascendant as it's reputation brings disgrace, ill fortune, and illness. The lunar mansion doesn't really agree with the situation either, but we'll take what we can get.
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Unread 07-02-2008, 06:46 PM
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Re: 3 Choices: So, Which Chart Would You Use?

As Kaiousei no Senshi wrote, use the first chart; your astrologer did not cheat you. By muliplying charts you are just confusing yourself: The curse of the computer age.

Your main significator, Mercury, is in dignity and the 9th house which is excellent for starting new education. The Moon, your second significator, is in dignity in the 10th, new and going to combustion. This is good for disappearing in secret and starting over life again. Jupiter, the significator of your harasser, is fallen and retrograde in the 4th and has no aspect with Mercury. This indicates the finale outcome that your harasser will not be able to find you or follow.

This is the least complicated solution to the situation and interpretation. Use Occam's Razor and eliminate more complicated theories in order to make sound decisions.

vale
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