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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #1  
Unread 07-31-2016, 10:49 AM
abraxas abraxas is offline
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Elemental Qualities and my discriminating(?) perception of Aries

First of all do you believe seasons are a very important factor in astrology? How they can not be, while they are direct effects of the Sun and Moon?

I was reading this: http://www.astrologycom.com/qual.html

Quote:
For example, the fire sign, Aries, is inherently hot and dry, but it falls in the hot and wet season of Spring, so Aries is hot and slightly wet.
And what is wet? According to same website:

Quote:
(wet) create bonds, communal, creative, flexible
Would you agree with this? Aries and flexible? Aries and communal? Aries and bonds? When I think Aries I think the extremely competitive, I have to beat everyone, Nobody can criticize me person ever. I always thought that Leo is way better when it comes to socializing (just by pure attracting other people to themselves powers of theirs if nothing else... but maybe this is it, Aries at first sight is intimidating but a better person than selfish Leo? yet still, with a huge disadvantage like being intimidating how to get better than Leo?) but again according to that website:

Quote:
Leo being the midsummer sign gets a double dose of hot and dry and is the pure fire sign
I can't be more agree when it comes to water signs though. Pisces is pure water sign: double cold & wet. Deepest of all signs, owner of 12th house. Cancer is made of everything: Cold and Dry as a water sign, Hot and Dry in the north.

One other thing is, if these are still accepted "facts" of astrology, and if you born in Brazil or Australia as a Cancer, now you are in southern hemisphere so all of a sudden you are double Cold and Wet and a pure water sign.

February temperatures in australia google search result:

Quote:
In summer (December - February), average maximum temperatures are around 26C. It can also be humid at this time with an average humidity of 65 per cent. Average maximum temperatures in the winter months (June-August) are around 16C. Sydney's rainfall is highest between March and June.
So now Pisces is made of everything.

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  #2  
Unread 07-31-2016, 03:19 PM
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haidee haidee is offline
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Re: Elemental Qualities and my discriminating(?) perception of Aries

Looks like you have to do it with every planet that's represented along with your ASC, MC and Part of Fortune. Have you done it yourself?
I just did mine, which describes me as Hot & Wet by sign and season... Sanguine, not sure if that's true. But it makes sense as for element dominance in the natal chart.

Oh and;
Quote:
Of course, if we hold that Astrological symbolism is universal, despite its origins in the temperate climes of the Northern Hemisphere (hereafter NH), then this point is irrelevant. But if we hold that Astrology is just as much about place as it is about time, that our experiential relationship to place is important, then this is an idea worthy of serious consideration.

Last edited by haidee; 07-31-2016 at 03:24 PM.
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Unread 07-31-2016, 04:34 PM
abraxas abraxas is offline
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Re: Elemental Qualities and my discriminating(?) perception of Aries

I didn't, because from what I can see astrologers doesn't give much attention to seasons. That's why I started the thread with that question.

How seasons can not be very important while they are the direct and even combined effects of the sun and moon? And if they are, why we never see this anywhere: "Aries is in fact is slightly wet, Leo is pure hot and dry" this basicaly contradicts what astrology says right now.

Maybe... maybe Aries' fire is more feelings based? And that's how Aries is wet. That would be my description though because how wet described there doesn't have much to do with this interpretation of mine. They are more instinctive, impulsive, angry! Leo though, is more controlled. Sagittarius extremely controlled. From Aries to Leo to Sagittarius feelings diminish.

From Cancer to Scorpio to Pisces then, heat diminish. Cancer is most impulsive of all water signs, Scorpio controlled but will sting you hard when you force it, Pisces will just run away, ignore, evade.

Last edited by abraxas; 07-31-2016 at 04:43 PM.
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  #4  
Unread 07-31-2016, 05:13 PM
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haidee haidee is offline
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Re: Elemental Qualities and my discriminating(?) perception of Aries

Hm, I'm not sure about the change of seasons, I'll follow this thread if anyone else chooses to comment on that.
However, about the Aries being slightly wet compared to Leo, you'd have to look at the planets ruling those signs, imo. Leo ruled by the Sun represents reason and the Sun is the life-giver, whereas Aries ruled by Mars represents survival instincts (aggression, anger etc), which is also related to emotions, right? So I agree with you on that.
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Unread 07-31-2016, 05:29 PM
Kitchy Kitchy is offline
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Re: Elemental Qualities and my discriminating(?) perception of Aries

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
I didn't, because from what I can see astrologers doesn't give much attention to seasons. That's why I started the thread with that question.

How seasons can not be very important while they are the direct and even combined effects of the sun and moon? And if they are, why we never see this anywhere: "Aries is in fact is slightly wet, Leo is pure hot and dry" this basicaly contradicts what astrology says right now.

Maybe... maybe Aries' fire is more feelings based? And that's how Aries is wet. That would be my description though because how wet described there doesn't have much to do with this interpretation of mine. They are more instinctive, impulsive, angry! Leo though, is more controlled. Sagittarius extremely controlled. From Aries to Leo to Sagittarius feelings diminish.

From Cancer to Scorpio to Pisces then, heat diminish. Cancer is most impulsive of all water signs, Scorpio controlled but will sting you hard when you force it, Pisces will just run away, ignore, evade.
I am a seasonally oriented astrologer too - mostly in noticing fashion which either conceals or exposes body parts - venus and thsoe attracted - mars. Saturn or Mars season, seems to basicall rules direc approach or holding back.

Probably Mars/Aries 'moist' comes from steam - letting out steam. heat and moisture makes for steam or condensation.

TSmall made a good point about Mars resting at night - which, I can attest to, having a husband and son who are both Aries sun - they are constantly moving and working and metabolising themselves to exaustion and then they crash like dead horses at the end of their day. Though between the two of them, day and night is a different rest period. My son is usually up through the night - but he has Moon in Cancer. He says he gets twice more accomplished when people aren't in his way. My husband will sleep for 10 hours if you let him, but in 8 hours of work at day, building trades, he does the work of 2 or 3 people. Both love the water - ocean sea lakes etc. . Is there an Aries that doesn't love water?

Both born in Spring. Aries - Mars ruled.
When they wake up - they are revived. You can actually see exaustion in an Aries sun very readily - as well as robust when they arise from rest.

Last edited by Kitchy; 07-31-2016 at 05:35 PM.
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Unread 07-31-2016, 05:37 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Elemental Qualities and my discriminating(?) perception of Aries

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxas View Post

First of all do you believe seasons are a very important factor in astrology? How they can not be, while they are direct effects of the Sun and Moon?

I was reading this: http://www.astrologycom.com/qual.html

Quote:
For example, the fire sign, Aries, is inherently hot and dry, but it falls in the hot and wet season of Spring, so Aries is hot and slightly wet.


And what is wet? According to same website:

Quote:
(wet) create bonds, communal, creative, flexible


Would you agree with this? Aries and flexible? Aries and communal? Aries and bonds? When I think Aries I think the extremely competitive, I have to beat everyone, Nobody can criticize me person ever. I always thought that Leo is way better when it comes to socializing (just by pure attracting other people to themselves powers of theirs if nothing else... but maybe this is it, Aries at first sight is intimidating but a better person than selfish Leo? yet still, with a huge disadvantage like being intimidating how to get better than Leo?) but again according to that website:

Quote:
Leo being the midsummer sign gets a double dose of hot and dry and is the pure fire sign


I can't be more agree when it comes to water signs though. Pisces is pure water sign: double cold & wet. Deepest of all signs, owner of 12th house. Cancer is made of everything: Cold and Dry as a water sign, Hot and Dry in the north.

One other thing is, if these are still accepted "facts" of astrology, and if you born in Brazil or Australia as a Cancer, now you are in southern hemisphere so all of a sudden you are double Cold and Wet and a pure water sign.

February temperatures in australia google search result:

Quote:
In summer (December - February), average maximum temperatures are around 26C. It can also be humid at this time with an average humidity of 65 per cent. Average maximum temperatures in the winter months (June-August) are around 16C. Sydney's rainfall is highest between March and June.


So now Pisces is made of everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxas View Post

I didn't, because from what I can see astrologers doesn't give much attention to seasons. That's why I started the thread with that question.

How seasons can not be very important while they are the direct and even combined effects of the sun and moon? And if they are, why we never see this anywhere: "Aries is in fact is slightly wet, Leo is pure hot and dry" this basicaly contradicts what astrology says right now.

Maybe... maybe Aries' fire is more feelings based? And that's how Aries is wet. That would be my description though because how wet described there doesn't have much to do with this interpretation of mine. They are more instinctive, impulsive, angry! Leo though, is more controlled. Sagittarius extremely controlled. From Aries to Leo to Sagittarius feelings diminish.

From Cancer to Scorpio to Pisces then, heat diminish. Cancer is most impulsive of all water signs, Scorpio controlled but will sting you hard when you force it, Pisces will just run away, ignore, evade.
and so is raised an interesting question


Do Tropical Traits Reflect Underlying Sidereal Signs?
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8258
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  #7  
Unread 07-31-2016, 07:17 PM
abraxas abraxas is offline
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Re: Elemental Qualities and my discriminating(?) perception of Aries

Quote:
Do Tropical Traits Reflect Underlying Sidereal Signs?
Well, if You admit that seasons are a factor in astrology, then Cancer and Leo should share a few things being back to back signs, one from july other from august but the question can be asked other way around too.

Somebody have to come up with a better system where signs mesh into each other, how come from 29 degrees of Pisces to 1st degree of Aries things suddenly change? In nature changes happen with little baby steps. No any caterpillar go Puf! and a butterfly right away. No any calf go Puf! and a Cow right away. So why the Pisces doesn't change as it gets closer and closer to Aries? It would add so much depth to astrology.

If it was up to me, I would declare 15 degrees of Pisces the %100 pisces, if 14 degrees there's a bit of Aquarius in that person and if 16 there's a bit of Aries there? Obviously I am not a professional astrologer but a system like this would make so much more scientific sense to me. Because when you say 29 Pisces to 1 Aries, ta-taaaa you are now suddenly and abrubtly Aries the only explanation is abrakadabra.

By the way I know there are decans but decans are object to the same question. In fact, decans add three more Pufs.

Last edited by abraxas; 07-31-2016 at 07:30 PM.
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