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  #276  
Unread 02-06-2015, 07:06 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Wow-- sorry about Konrad. I am traveling now (sadly, to attend a relative's funeral) but will get back to my mystery chart within the next few days.

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  #277  
Unread 02-06-2015, 11:04 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Wow-- sorry about Konrad.
Konrad and Paul_ both unusually requested that their accounts be closed
forum rules state that no account can be deleted
so members have the option to return at any time
unless banned
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=54342
clearly Konrad as well as Paul_ had issues and have gone
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  #278  
Unread 02-08-2015, 09:32 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by unique_astrology View Post

.....From Robert Hand's "Planets In Transit" on the significance of transiting Pluto:
ROBERT HAND states in this video that 'modern astrology is a simplified form of medieval astrology'
he then emphasises that it is A VERY SIMPLIFIED form

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppwjoXPaAes
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  #279  
Unread 02-08-2015, 11:39 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
.....
Ok, Konrad, Dirius, and any other takers.

I from my files the chart of a man with Pluto conjunct MC. The birth time would be rated AA: from a hospital record, not rounded. This is someone of my acquaintance, university-educated, self-employed but ambitious to start his own firm.

What sorts of sports and films does he like, and why? How does he cope with adversity? Within his profession, what sort of work does he specialize in/or at least, has had the most experience in?

Please explain the methods through which you answered the questions.
I will judiciously supply additional information upon request.

Over to you, guys.
OK, mystery chart revealed: posted on p. 7, from 1/31/15.

This man is self-employed/i.e., owner of a very small firm specializing in commercial design. I think the Virgo in him comes out in the finely detailed work that he produces. I get the artistic part from that Venus in Libra.

Much of his work has been with retail renovations and re-branding some established retail images, such as some big names in the fast-food industry with outlets in shopping malls: here is Pluto's energy of "old into new." He is currently working on a children's museum: old (museum) into new (children.)

Where Pluto also comes in is that he played football and rugby in high school, and rugby through his university years. The part that he liked was playing defense and getting into a tackle-pile of very large muddy guys-- the expression "out from under" comes to mind.

He is also an expert skier, but I read that more as Mars-Sagittarius rising.

I might mention that despite Virgo's supposed quest for purity, this man had several jobs as a part-time bouncer in bars in the university town where he lived for some years. The bouncers aren't there to drink-- as you know-- just to handle problem patrons, who can get pretty gross.

Similarly, with films, he likes the battle of the good underdog against the massed forces of evil, notably in the Tolkien and Hobbit series. If you've seen these movies, the bad guys are exemplars of the negative Plutonian archetype, on a colossal scale.

Coping with adversity has two sides, so far as I can tell. The Virgo who gets fussed if things aren't perfect; but also a real, "When the going gets tough, the tough get going" spirit that typifies the sports and film preferences.
Attached Images
File Type: png Pluto mystern chart..png (89.2 KB, 7 views)
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  #280  
Unread 02-09-2015, 01:02 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
OK, mystery chart revealed: posted on p. 7, from 1/31/15.

This man is self-employed/i.e., owner of a very small firm specializing in commercial design. I think the Virgo in him comes out in the finely detailed work that he produces. I get the artistic part from that Venus in Libra.

Much of his work has been with retail renovations and re-branding some established retail images, such as some big names in the fast-food industry with outlets in shopping malls: here is Pluto's energy of "old into new." He is currently working on a children's museum: old (museum) into new (children.)

Where Pluto also comes in is that he played football and rugby in high school, and rugby through his university years. The part that he liked was playing defense and getting into a tackle-pile of very large muddy guys-- the expression "out from under" comes to mind.

He is also an expert skier, but I read that more as Mars-Sagittarius rising.

I might mention that despite Virgo's supposed quest for purity, this man had several jobs as a part-time bouncer in bars in the university town where he lived for some years. The bouncers aren't there to drink-- as you know-- just to handle problem patrons, who can get pretty gross.

Similarly, with films, he likes the battle of the good underdog against the massed forces of evil, notably in the Tolkien and Hobbit series. If you've seen these movies, the bad guys are exemplars of the negative Plutonian archetype, on a colossal scale.

Coping with adversity has two sides, so far as I can tell. The Virgo who gets fussed if things aren't perfect; but also a real, "When the going gets tough, the tough get going" spirit that typifies the sports and film preferences.
Some good, sound observations and analysis.
I "see it too."
But you know, now all someone has to say is, "Nah, Pluto has nothing to do with any of this" and away the debate goes again... which may beg the question.
"Do we want results or is it just about following a formula and a tradition?" Personally I like simplicity, especially those accompanied by results—whatever the method.
And is Robert Hand's comments about Modern Astrology
-
'modern astrology is a simplified form of medieval astrology'
he then emphasizes that it is A VERY SIMPLIFIED form'

Is simple a bad thing? Or is the mystical allure of the Great Occult Art somehow lost if astrology is rendered simple? I would take this to also mean, easier to understand—perhaps???


Regarding Tolkien & the Lord of the Rings comments...
What could be more Plutoesque than a volcano for the home of the evil one?
Although I do not regard Pluto as evil.
"That energy" is often used by evil but the end result is and will be transformation.

I recently listened to a piece on NPR about the huge amount of water deep in the earth. It maybe a sum of water equal to ALL existing water on the surface. It it is now believed Volcanic action is what is responsible for bringing water back to the surface of the earth. Thus we have the water element coupled with lava and volcanic action... sounds Plutonic to me.

Think about it.
Perhaps Pluto is behind the actions and attempt to reduce its profile and render it obscure and overlooked.
Maybe he has not enjoyed basking in the light of such obviousness.
Back into the depths and shadows where his work can continue...

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  #281  
Unread 02-09-2015, 03:18 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

I view one's preferred form of astrology to be a bit like a decision to play a musical instrument. For example, do you play the piano? If so, some musicians will wonder why you don't play an electronic keyboard, with a synthesizer. Others will insist that a pipe organ is far superior. Someone who loves the harpsichord might insist you can't properly play 18th century keyboard music without going back to a more "original" sort of instrument.

Ultimately it is a matter of preference and what you have in you to do. What resonates for you?
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  #282  
Unread 02-09-2015, 04:33 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Waybread

Good example. Thank you. Very well put.
And as a musician I would only add;
Some of us value each instrument for what it can add
AND we love to play them all.
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  #283  
Unread 02-09-2015, 10:01 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konrad View Post

Waybread, a few minutes difference would change the sign,

and no offence, but your definition of Sagittarius rising would be different to mine.

I can't do any rectification so the dates are not of use.


furthermore Konrad is no longer a member of our forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post

For those who have not noticed
the following info is clearly displayed with Konrad's Avatar

'Konrad
Account Closed'


For anyone unable for any reason to re-read the entire thread
way back on page 7
at post number 175
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...&postcount=175
Dirius made the following observations
on the chart in question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post

I must say though, that "personality/psichological" astrology to me is redundant, since I focus more on predictive techniques, which I find is the real use of astrology.

Yet, the problem with this types of questions is that, we can tell you "what he could be good at", not what his actual job is.

For example:

- the chart with a Virgo 10th house, capricorn 2nd, and saturn placed in virgo, would make an ideal accountant (or something along the lines of money investments), further reinforced from the sextile that saturn recieves from moon (8th house, money from other people). Perhaps banking area or handling people's investments?

Yet, that doesn't imply that is his actual job. Furthermore, the category in which we can place lots of those things are plenty. In the terms of skill, its easy to say someone is skilled with numbers, or with crafts, or acting, etc. It is a very different thing to pin-point a specific profesion, for example if someone is a medical doctor or a biochemist.

Now the "movie" part of his interests seems to me a bit silly example. But ok, with Aries as his 5th, and venus natural ruler of pleasures, both in libra. Air sign, implies action of the mind, with the romantic venusian touch.
Obviously I've never seen a person that has "one" and only one movie genre they like but...perhaps:

-) psychological thriller - (like crime/detective movies) with a bit of drama/love movies?

With mars in detriment, and venus powerfull, and mostly in Libra, could be with something about doing "justice".

But again, I suck mostly at personality reading (never really focused on it much).

Did I miss completly?
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  #284  
Unread 02-09-2015, 10:21 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post


I must say though, that "personality/psichological" astrology to me is redundant,
since I focus more on predictive techniques, which I find is the real use of astrology.


With mars in detriment

and venus powerfull

and mostly in Libra

could be with something about doing "justice".

Interesting that the mystery chart owner worked part-time as a bouncer
in bars in the university town in which he lived
'handling problem patrons who can be pretty gross'



Certainly a bouncer delivers a form of instant 'rough justice'


Then also
with films
the mystery chart owner


'likes the battle of the good underdog against the massed forces of evil'


Dirius is correct ~ 'something about doing justice'

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
OK, mystery chart revealed: posted on p. 7, from 1/31/15.

This man is self-employed/i.e., owner of a very small firm specializing in commercial design. I think the Virgo in him comes out in the finely detailed work that he produces. I get the artistic part from that Venus in Libra.

Much of his work has been with retail renovations and re-branding some established retail images, such as some big names in the fast-food industry with outlets in shopping malls: here is Pluto's energy of "old into new." He is currently working on a children's museum: old (museum) into new (children.)

Where Pluto also comes in is that he played football and rugby in high school, and rugby through his university years. The part that he liked was playing defense and getting into a tackle-pile of very large muddy guys-- the expression "out from under" comes to mind.

He is also an expert skier, but I read that more as Mars-Sagittarius rising.

I might mention that despite Virgo's supposed quest for purity,

this man had several jobs
as a part-time bouncer in bars in the university town
where he lived for some years.

The bouncers aren't there to drink-- as you know--
just to handle problem patrons,
who can get pretty gross.


Similarly, with films,

he likes the battle of the good underdog
against the massed forces of evil,

notably in the Tolkien and Hobbit series.
If you've seen these movies, the bad guys are exemplars of the negative Plutonian archetype, on a colossal scale.

Coping with adversity has two sides, so far as I can tell. The Virgo who gets fussed if things aren't perfect; but also a real, "When the going gets tough, the tough get going" spirit that typifies the sports and film preferences.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #285  
Unread 02-10-2015, 03:35 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Thanks for posting the chart waybread.

Well the "battle" itself part, could be for Mars ruling the 5th...same as the liking for american football, probably one of the most war-like sports there is (because of physical confrontation + strategy).

Regarding the profesion, we seem to agree it is determined by the Virgo 10th.

The problem for me is that, I don't really think the chart can tell you what a person will be, but rather only what he could be. Certainly Virgo has an affinity for perfectionists jobs, which seem to suit him well.

Now the thing is that, what does pluto really bring into the formula there?

I read the part about renovation, but isn't that a bit of an abstract concept? I mean, a doctor for example might as well be renovating people when they get them healthy.
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  #286  
Unread 02-10-2015, 12:26 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Hi!
I couldn't read all the thread but I 'd like to say that personnaly , I have a triple conjunction Pluto/Asc/Sun and I feel Pluto a lot. pluto exists and manifests really in lives. It depends on the placement and aspects it has on the birthchart.

For me, it plays a big role through sex (sorry). Sex take a huge place in my life, but unlike those who will contemplate a therapy, for me it's no way that I do a therapy.

Today Sun casts a trine to Pluto natal in my chart, and I can tell u that I feel it very well : sexual drives are very high for me today (sorry it's a bit embarrassing to write that but my purpose is not to provoke anyone but tell the truth in order to learn and progress).

To conclude : I'm hot now!!! LOL

I will continue later but I'add that when I was a student, these "hot periods" were quite a trouble for me to concentrate on my exams. I've had some problems about that, but I couldn't confess to anyone.

Excuse for my wrong english it was a quick testify about how Pluto interfers into my life.
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  #287  
Unread 02-10-2015, 12:46 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexandre View Post

Hi!
I couldn't read all the thread but I 'd like to say that personnaly ,
I have a triple conjunction Pluto/Asc/Sun and I feel Pluto a lot.
pluto exists and manifests really in lives. It depends on the placement and aspects it has on the birthchart.

For me, it plays a big role through sex (sorry).
Sex take a huge place in my life, but unlike those who will contemplate a therapy, for me it's no way that I do a therapy.

Today Sun casts a trine to Pluto natal in my chart,
and I can tell u that I feel it very well :
sexual drives are very high for me today
(sorry it's a bit embarrassing to write that but my purpose is not to provoke anyone but tell the truth in order to learn and progress).

To conclude : I'm hot now!!! LOL

I will continue later but I'add that when I was a student,
these "hot periods" were quite a trouble for me to concentrate on my exams.
I've had some problems about that, but I couldn't confess to anyone.

Excuse for my wrong english it was a quick testify about how Pluto interfers into my life.
keep in mind
Sun casts a trine to natal Sun
as well
furthermore
Sun is undeniably hot

dwarf planet pluto in contrast is icy cold ~ literally
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Unread 02-10-2015, 07:38 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Post chart @alexandre
I've followed this thread and wowzers way bread can really hold her own in an argument!


In the Pluto thread in the humor section, I found out that Pluto has a high albedo, high reflectiveness, and a brown, icy surface... Does this have any astrological meaning in terms of symbolism, etc.?
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  #289  
Unread 02-10-2015, 08:53 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

[deleted attacking post - Moderator]

I appreciate where you are coming from and the desire to keep the conversation in the intellectual realm, however, we do have to honor the personal experience of individuals. After all, it's not like any of these ideas shared are deeply rooted in a traditional science whereby
Quote:
you can give evidence for your theory.
Evidence, in astrological circles, always seems to take fire from opposing views because the answers are more often "understood" and not found in the manifest nature of matter. The actual evidence you are asking for would be easy if the question was the temp. water freezes at. That answer would be difficult for anybody to argue. If ONLY astrology was half as concrete... but then there wouldn't be much to ague about and this forum would likely not exist.

I would also take minor issue with the constant need to rely on the actual physical planetary body in space and its color, size, surface temp or elemental make up. If some cosmic event took place and Mercury (for instance) was wiped out and GONE, would we no longer have thought and communication? Likely at this point of our evolution—with regard to science and calculating the orbit of Mercury on into infinity—we would continue to "account" for it and more importantly, the archetypal principals we associate with Mercury would still apply to people on the personal and collective level.

If alexandre believes he experiences Pluto in the way he does we must accept his level of observation. We do not need to accept it as the law of the land but it should enter the files along with other personal accounts. I respect his honesty and willingness to share. And one of our fine astrologers should have pointed out, a strong sex drive can have a lot to do with a Sun conjoined Asc, not to mention other factors.

A note to alexandre. Mahatma Gandhi struggled to contain and control his sex drive. It was with great diligence and meditation he finally came to command and direct his primal desires.

...either that or you can just wait for old age and then it's just not that important anymore...
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  #290  
Unread 02-10-2015, 11:40 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Wow, this thread has grown huge .. I was busy, could not reply or read. Just tried now and stoped at 6th page, it is too long. I don't think I manage to finnish it and reply. Sorry. But from what I read, great debate.
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  #291  
Unread 02-11-2015, 02:43 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post
Post chart @alexandre
I've followed this thread and wowzers way bread can really hold her own in an argument!


...
Thank you Bunraku! With Pluto and Saturn opposite my sun
(and their midpoint opposite in a degree,) I had to learn at an early age to stick up for myself.

Dirius, thanks for tackling the mystery chart! You will note that I asked those questions that seemed most Plutonian to me.

Your thoughts about MDs are interesting: I think the role of Pluto would depend upon his/her specialty or type of practice. Some doctors do bring back patients from the brink of death. A plastic surgeon, probably not so much. Interestingly, a dermatologist generally doesn't deal w/ life and death, but does deal with skin eruptions. Eruptions seem very Plutonian.

The attached chart is from a family member who was a successful MD. Sorry that I don't have a birth time, but I think the trads could focus on that Mars in Aries, and the mods could note the sun conjunct Pluto.
Attached Images
File Type: png mystery doctor.png (78.6 KB, 3 views)
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Last edited by waybread; 02-11-2015 at 03:01 AM.
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  #292  
Unread 02-11-2015, 03:05 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Stay with us, AstroloLogical-- you have much to contribute. Not the least of which is your refreshing common sense.
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  #293  
Unread 02-11-2015, 04:14 AM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

In reference to Pluto and the other outer planetary bodies, we know that they are there for whatever reason that is observational in nature; whether it be by binoculars or telescope right? We know that they have an energy signature just by the awareness of modern day physics correct?

The conversation seems to come back to a "traditionalist view versus a modern view of the planetary energies that we observe by all senses gifted to us. My question, that I feel valid to ask here is; why are Arabic parts used and vehemently backed by "traditionalist" when you can't actually see it physically manifested in the skies but in the belief formulated by perception of such visual culmination with in the flesh of being? If it is what we see in the skies that we should report with fervor then why should we trust the energy of the Arabic parts when they are mathematical calculations? Why were their inception so important in history? I theorize that it is because as philosopher's of metaphysics, we are trying to find a reason to explain what the other planets and stars visible to naked eye could not.

Waybread and Dirius; I both commend you on your tenacity to intellectually push forward with the conveyance of each respected vision.

As I spoke before, in observation I see and understand the energy of Pluto.

The very day that it opposed my Mars, I stood at the bottom of huge hill with my youngest son. I heard a little girl scream and looked up to see a teenage boy wrestle a "radioflyer" wagon from her and race to the top of the hill and let it go barreling straight for me and my son and behind us my friend with her new born. Lol, man, I pick up my boy and ran to that **** wagon and stopped it, but that friggin thing knocked me on my butt hard core, luckily hurting only me. The very next day, I woke up and got ready for work only to discover that someone had come over in the night and slashed all of the tires on my car and my wifes car and put water in the gas tanks!
Through out the duration of that transit, they were calling my wife telling her crazy stuff and sending me death mail. Come to find out it had been by a young kid who was associated with the Latin Kings. He had been one of the sub-contractor's employees that I was in charge of at the time. It was a very crazy time. I learned how to use my energy appropriately by the end of the transit. My mars disposits it energy into the moon, which sits in the seventh house.

The very day that it first crossed over my son's IC, his mother and I seperated and they got into the car with their mom and drove away. Pluto has just crossed over my youngest son's mid-heaven; well, his mother is getting married...lol... My father's descendant has Pluto approaching...My mother's health is failing more rapidly and she is preparing to transition forward from this place (as pluto just crossed over into her 5th house trine her sun conjunct north node coming into opposition to Uranus) along with Jupiter crossing into her 12th house eventually to conjunct her natal Pluto.
Yes, Jupiter is most prominent when death comes, but the most important part is that there is transformation that is beginning to take place. In which we all must acknowledge is beginning to transpire so that we can begin the process of acceptance. With acceptance comes peace. As Demeter had to accept the truth in order to claim rightfully her place amongst the Gods; so shall we, to claim the right of death.

My ex wife has Pluto opposite her mars which disposits its energy into Mercury. Well, she quit managing and has decided to go back to school full time.

My daughter, just had A Pluto transit conjunct her mars and is getting readying to cross over her Ascendant. She just received dental surgery and had braces attached. I mean seriously.....Pluto in Capricorn, crossing mars, and when it does cross her Ascendant, she will have them removed. Lol....Man, I could go for days on transits and progressions with every person's chart that I have.

Even with what I do, and I shared this with Dirius. I restore historic structures for my day job at this time. Very Plutonian in Nature. The chemistry of such transformation is extremely important. Digging for hours upon end on one sash to remove the blistering and peeling skin so that we can bring new life into a history of energy that will repeat over as long as we walk on this plane.
When I view my chart I see this with Pluto's placement and aspects and the fact that he rules in tandem with Mars my Midheaven. Of course there is more, but I personally, am not stubborn to the point in which I would not include any ancient observation to allow for a more accurate picture in depth concerning prediction or the sojourn. I just personally resonate with what I have studied and observed to be the energy of this planet.

Life is tough, for we are all battling our own demons that are seeded in our thoughts and desires. When people come to an Astrologer, it is because they are curious if that desire will manifest or why the manifestations of such precarious events seem to be happening to them. If their desires are not to manifest then will they be dissapointed? And if they are, where are those planets in the chart making what aspects to the personal planets. And how do we help them to mitigate that disappointment. We are responsible for what we convey with what we see.

Last edited by astralrabbit; 02-11-2015 at 04:29 AM.
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Originally Posted by astralrabbit View Post
My question, that I feel valid to ask here is; why are Arabic parts used and vehemently backed by "traditionalist" when you can't actually see it physically manifested in the skies but in the belief formulated by perception of such visual culmination with in the flesh of being? If it is what we see in the skies that we should report with fervor then why should we trust the energy of the Arabic parts when they are mathematical calculations? Why were their inception so important in history? I theorize that it is because as philosopher's of metaphysics, we are trying to find a reason to explain what the other planets and stars visible to naked eye could not.
Hermetic Lots or merely "parts", are formulas for expressing mid-points concerning the relevant planets. The theory behind them is that they concern events regarding the native's life, and help establish additional specific information.

For example, lets take a look at some, like the parts of marriage:

Man = Asc + Venus - Sun
Women = Asc + Mars - Moon

The formula is analyzed like this:

Asc(the individual) + Venus (women in general) - Sun (the masculine will)
Asc(the individual) + Mars (men in general) - Moon (the femenine will)


The reason they are used, despite being nothing more than mathematical calculations, is because they relate to the distance of the Asc with both planets, thus in theory providing the "middle ground", in which both planet's influence will meet. Thus in this example:

The individual (the asc) will meet a woman or man (venus/mars) and when he or she decides (Sun/Moon), he or she will get married to him or her (Part of Marriage).

The part itself is meaningless, we are concerned with the sign in which the part is found, and thus, the planet that rules the part and acts as the representation of marriage.

This for example, relates to the concept on how the native relates to marriage, or the specific event in question, unlike the 7th house, which represents the other person.

Usually by using prediction techniques and finding the profected marriage part falling in, for example the 7th house, represents a time in which the native might meet a future spouse, get married, etc.
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by astralrabbit View Post
In reference to Pluto and the other outer planetary bodies, we know that they are there for whatever reason that is observational in nature; whether it be by binoculars or telescope right? We know that they have an energy signature just by the awareness of modern day physics correct?

The conversation seems to come back to a "traditionalist view versus a modern view of the planetary energies that we observe by all senses gifted to us. My question, that I feel valid to ask here is; why are Arabic parts used and vehemently backed by "traditionalist" when you can't actually see it physically manifested in the skies but in the belief formulated by perception of such visual culmination with in the flesh of being? If it is what we see in the skies that we should report with fervor then why should we trust the energy of the Arabic parts when they are mathematical calculations? Why were their inception so important in history? I theorize that it is because as philosopher's of metaphysics, we are trying to find a reason to explain what the other planets and stars visible to naked eye could not.

Waybread and Dirius; I both commend you on your tenacity to intellectually push forward with the conveyance of each respected vision.

As I spoke before, in observation I see and understand the energy of Pluto.

The very day that it opposed my Mars, I stood at the bottom of huge hill with my youngest son. I heard a little girl scream and looked up to see a teenage boy wrestle a "radioflyer" wagon from her and race to the top of the hill and let it go barreling straight for me and my son and behind us my friend with her new born. Lol, man, I pick up my boy and ran to that **** wagon and stopped it, but that friggin thing knocked me on my butt hard core, luckily hurting only me. The very next day, I woke up and got ready for work only to discover that someone had come over in the night and slashed all of the tires on my car and my wifes car and put water in the gas tanks!
Through out the duration of that transit, they were calling my wife telling her crazy stuff and sending me death mail. Come to find out it had been by a young kid who was associated with the Latin Kings. He had been one of the sub-contractor's employees that I was in charge of at the time. It was a very crazy time. I learned how to use my energy appropriately by the end of the transit. My mars disposits it energy into the moon, which sits in the seventh house.

The very day that it first crossed over my son's IC, his mother and I seperated and they got into the car with their mom and drove away. Pluto has just crossed over my youngest son's mid-heaven; well, his mother is getting married...lol... My father's descendant has Pluto approaching...My mother's health is failing more rapidly and she is preparing to transition forward from this place (as pluto just crossed over into her 5th house trine her sun conjunct north node coming into opposition to Uranus) along with Jupiter crossing into her 12th house eventually to conjunct her natal Pluto.
Yes, Jupiter is most prominent when death comes, but the most important part is that there is transformation that is beginning to take place. In which we all must acknowledge is beginning to transpire so that we can begin the process of acceptance. With acceptance comes peace. As Demeter had to accept the truth in order to claim rightfully her place amongst the Gods; so shall we, to claim the right of death.

My ex wife has Pluto opposite her mars which disposits its energy into Mercury. Well, she quit managing and has decided to go back to school full time.

My daughter, just had A Pluto transit conjunct her mars and is getting readying to cross over her Ascendant. She just received dental surgery and had braces attached. I mean seriously.....Pluto in Capricorn, crossing mars, and when it does cross her Ascendant, she will have them removed. Lol....Man, I could go for days on transits and progressions with every person's chart that I have.

Even with what I do, and I shared this with Dirius. I restore historic structures for my day job at this time. Very Plutonian in Nature. The chemistry of such transformation is extremely important. Digging for hours upon end on one sash to remove the blistering and peeling skin so that we can bring new life into a history of energy that will repeat over as long as we walk on this plane.
When I view my chart I see this with Pluto's placement and aspects and the fact that he rules in tandem with Mars my Midheaven. Of course there is more, but I personally, am not stubborn to the point in which I would not include any ancient observation to allow for a more accurate picture in depth concerning prediction or the sojourn. I just personally resonate with what I have studied and observed to be the energy of this planet.

Life is tough, for we are all battling our own demons that are seeded in our thoughts and desires. When people come to an Astrologer, it is because they are curious if that desire will manifest or why the manifestations of such precarious events seem to be happening to them. If their desires are not to manifest then will they be dissapointed? And if they are, where are those planets in the chart making what aspects to the personal planets. And how do we help them to mitigate that disappointment. We are responsible for what we convey with what we see.
You truly deserve a bushel of Astralcarrots for this entry. I loved it! A superb testimonial—with "evidence," I might add.
The appeal for justifying the use of the Arabic Parts is a wonderfully crafted example to work with in this discussion.
btw - I've witnessed Pluto take some hostages too.
Most were released after the ransom had been paid.

Thank you, A*R
And thanks to you, waybread, for the encouragement.

A*L
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Originally Posted by AstroLogical View Post
I do understand the high mindedness you are striving for and I agree... for the most part.
I suppose to some degree it is a matter of perception.
I saw a "junior member" and what appears to be a young man (from the photo) along with a language barrier and I took it to mean—in general an honest post—all be it somewhat raw. These factors I considered to be a
Perhaps I am seriously naive to the ways of Trollism but to post a chart with the placements he described suggested to me there was a simple raw honesty and he was trying to share. Not to mention the squirm factor maybe high and too much talk of "sex" is uncomfortable for some.

"First there is a mountain then there is no mountain then there is..."

I hope I'm correct to "assume" this forum is to educate and initiate those at earlier stages of the study as well as for the Grand Masters of the Art to share and debate but I sensed a concern in his shared self observation.
And he did apologize for the content.
Do Trolls usually apologize?
I'm not trying to be snide, I'm really not sure.
I haven't had much personal experience with "them."

Anyway, it's all good. Carry on! I'll crawl back in my hole and peek out ;-)
Thank u for having seen that I'm not a troll and for defending me.
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Originally Posted by alexandre View Post

First you low your voice with me.
Second I'm not here to justify anything or to be forced to explain to you anything.
The main focus on this thread is that we are having a discussion on concepts and techniques.
and to discuss concepts and techniques is a common practice in astrology

as well as a necessary one
Otherwise it's similar to rumour and speculation
which lack reliable foundation
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexandre View Post
I talk about my feelings and the way I think Pluto interfers into me.
We all have feelings
nevertheless
judgement using astrological technique
is very different from judgement based on feeling
because
feelings are not necessarily shared by others
whereas an astrological method is easily shared by others

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexandre View Post
It's rather you who must demonstrate that Pluto doesn't act in a chart
because it's not common from astrologers to have this opinion.

On the contrary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konrad View Post
Not really.

The established planets are the seven visible ones

- it is one aspect of practice that both camps use
- if you want to add more bodies to the rulership system and in general practice,
the onus of proof is actually on the person proposing the modification.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexandre View Post
Then I'd add that Astrology is about lives and human beings .
It's quite normal to talk about our lives and in which ways we think planets have played a role.
Such a discussion not unusually includes ASTROLOGICAL METHOD
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Re: Confused about Pluto

Wow, AstralRabbit! I'm impressed. Thanks for your Pluto stories.

Frankly, I don't know why more astrologers, notably the orthodox trads, don't do more with fixed stars. The main ones are visible with the naked eye, and their interpretations go back to ancient times.

One other thing I might mention is our ability to use Pluto, or any of the planets, in a choice-centered astrology. When I could see that Pluto would be crossing over my IC, squaring my AC/DC axis and opposing my MC-Uranus conjunction (alongside a bunch of other big transits,) we renovated our basement (very Plutonian,) cleaned out the garage, spruced up the house and then sold it-- in 2007, so we got a good price for it. I took an early retirement from my job, and then we moved across country. It worked out well. These days, I'm a lot happier and less stressed than I was while I was working.

If a Pluto transit approaches, it's a good idea to be proactive about it.

I have Jupiter in Capricorn in the 4th house, and have always loved neat old houses. We've saved or renovated a few, ourselves. As transiting Pluto squares my natal Neptune and approaches natal Jupiter, I have been reading about "life after life" recently.
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Unread 02-11-2015, 08:52 PM
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Re: Confused about Pluto

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Frankly, I don't know why more astrologers, notably the orthodox trads, don't do more with fixed stars. The main ones are visible with the naked eye, and their interpretations go back to ancient times.
This is not true. Most traditional astrologers use fixed stars...a LOT actually.

However, the reason you don't see many chart delineations including fixed stars is because they have much less significance than the relevant planets. They only influence planets by conjunction, so many charts don't really need a delineation regarding fixed stars.

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Re: Confused about Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post

This is not true. Most traditional astrologers use fixed stars...a LOT actually.

However, the reason you don't see many chart delineations including fixed stars is because they have much less significance than the relevant planets. They only influence planets by conjunction, so many charts don't really need a delineation regarding fixed stars.

But if we are to base astrology on "choice",
then why for example, not use the Sun as ruler of Cancer rather than the Moon?

I don't really question the choice, its up to the person in question, just asking the reasons, which still no one has yet answered.
In ancient times the Sun had two domiciles, Leo and Cancer
The Moon had no domicile of her own


Eclipses also account for events attributed to pluto
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