General question about relocation charts

In a situation when someone has been living very far from the birthplace for years and the relocated chart is quite different from natal in terms of houses, which chart would you use to look at - natal or relocated?

I understand natal as a basis for entire life, and relocated as later influences, much as transits or progressed chart, but when relocated shows completely different picture, for example, natal Sun in 12th, relocated on MC, or natal Saturn in 2nd and relocated in 11th? those are quite different and I have no idea what to make of it?

can relocated 'become' a new natal? or do you always look at natal?
I appologize if this is a basic[stupid] question?

This is a good question Hermetic, and particularly relevant now as people become less and less likely to spend their lives in the place they were born.

I don't know the answer, but it perhaps hinges upon what actually changes in the relocated chart.........Planets/signs/aspects remain the same, but the planets within the houses and the signs on the cusp of the latter change.......So, our character/strengths/weaknesses and behaviour are unaltered but where/how this is seen by others will change.........which does seem to accord with the theory of relocation astrology that it can be used to change our lives, since it's how others perceive what we say/do that results in rejection/acceptance or indifference.

On that basis, a sun in (say) Leo/12th might lack confidence in the place of birth yet be very outgoing if relocated to place it on the MC.......but, if Scorpio has replaced the former Leo ascendant, this person might still have inner doubts about what others think of him/her.

So, I'd be inclined to work with the relocated chart as a new natal chart.....secure in the knowledge that anything of major significance appears in more than one way in a nativity, ensuring that what the Soul intends to encounter will be encountered wherever we choose to live.

EJ

Have you tried the astrocartography on astro.com, go to free horoscopes, then look to right. Astrocartography works and there is forum on AW that covers this and on astro.com on interactive, travel they offer astrocartography/world maps, which has its place and explains which planets rules lat and long where you relocate to and how this will affect you in this location. It is my personal opinion that relocated ‘birth charts’ don’t work, there are plenty of other techniques available.

Have just realised where the confusion may be on astro.com to get a solar return for a new location, you have to find the option to use a relocated chart, which does mean changing location from where natally you were born to where you are living now. This is just so you can get a relocated solar return only.....

Relocated birth charts are more or less astrocartography, whereby all your natal planets are stretched out over the globe and uses lat and long to discover best place to live. Apparently relocated birth charts does something similar (but not as widely used or known as astrocartography) whereby especially over the Angles could bring a planet out of 12, 3 6 or 9th to become much more active

I have always been taught that it is the new Natal. I have not done one but I am going to study it this summer.

hermetic said:

In a situation when someone has been living very far from the birthplace for years and the relocated chart is quite different from natal in terms of houses, which chart would you use to look at - natal or relocated?

I understand natal as a basis for entire life, and relocated as later influences, much as transits or progressed chart, but when relocated shows completely different picture, for example, natal Sun in 12th, relocated on MC, or natal Saturn in 2nd and relocated in 11th? those are quite different and I have no idea what to make of it?

can relocated 'become' a new natal? or do you always look at natal?
I appologize if this is a basic[stupid] question?

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If the person has totally taken on their life in their new country, and has no plans to return, then often people will begin looking at their relocated as the new natal.
If it is your chart, then maybe look to transits of angles and house changes to see if they seem to work by triggering events.

thank's katydid, it is my boyfriends chart i was wondering about.

he's living abroad for 10 years and doesn't plan to return.

the most surprising this was that at first I guessed his asc to be virgo, later to find out he has taurus asc, but in his relocated chart he's asc is indeed virgo.

i knew his date of birth but not time so I toyed around with various ascendants and this one seemed to describe him best not just ascendant but planetary positions also. later he told me his time so i could calculate both natal and relocated accurately
his natal doesn't seem to do it and i stick to it because i had this relocation chart as a chart describing him perfectly even before I knew it, just as my guess.

katydid said:

If the person has totally taken on their life in their new country, and has no plans to return, then often people will begin looking at their relocated as the new natal.
If it is your chart, then maybe look to transits of angles and house changes to see if they seem to work by triggering events.

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What about people who have being living abroad for ages and ages and ages but plan to return? What would they be represented by?
I'm still very much tied to the place I was born. Relocate me here? No thank you very much, I'm already here in body, don't need my natal chart to be transferred here as well

noideaaboutastro said:

What about people who have being living abroad for ages and ages and ages but plan to return? What would they be represented by?
I'm still very much tied to the place I was born. Relocate me here? No thank you very much, I'm already here in body, don't need my natal chart to be transferred here as well

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Then I would do what is the norm, and always read your natal chart, but take a peek at the relocated angles as well.

noideaaboutastro said:

What about people who have being living abroad for ages and ages and ages but plan to return? What would they be represented by?
I'm still very much tied to the place I was born. Relocate me here? No thank you very much, I'm already here in body, don't need my natal chart to be transferred here as well

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Just use the natal but when looking at Solar return remember to use the new relocated place

I was born in one place, while my home where I grew up was in another place . Once I grew up (at least I thought I did, he-he), I moved to another country.

I believe natal chart for the place and time where one actually was born is the most important chart that is always with the person. It is a cosmic imprint that you may be able to mask, but not alter. After all, there was a reason why you chose to be born there and then.

Relocation charts are important in a way. Like an outfit that makes you behave in a certain way.

The place I was born is not too far from the place I grew up. These charts are still similar. When I moved to another country (with no intention to come back), my Sun/Mars moved to 12th house and Pluto came up to the Asc. They all are in the 8th house natally.

These 8th house influences are very strong. They never disappeared anywhere. I am even obsessed at times with 8th house matters.

But I've been very uncomfortable expressing myself. 8th house Sun doesn't make for the most outgoing person, but 12th house Sun is even less so. I felt isolated and confined, always acting from behind the scene (or my husband's back). I had to build my own world and convinced myself that I was happy. Not that it was very difficult, there are similarities between 8th and 12th house Suns, but by nature I am more social than 12th house Sun/Mars implies. My Sag Asc became Libra Asc with Pluto right on it, and poor Venus is also in the 12th. How outgoing is that?

I moved a few more times. For about three years we lived in an area I absolutely loved. I felt great there. I later looked at relocations: what a surprise! My Sun/Mars/Pluto moved to 1st house. Asc is in Virgo, and its ruler is also in the 1st. It was a tiny town, but my social life was booming, I studied for a new profession and got a job that I loved, my life was packed with experiences, I became a mother (I doubted I ever would), I discovered Astrology, I finally made a career choice (sure, it is 8th house related) and started college.

I didn't become a first-house-Sun person. But my Sun was easy to express there, and it felt goooood.

iwonder said:

Relocation charts are important in a way. Like an outfit that makes you behave in a certain way.


But I've been very uncomfortable expressing myself. 8th house Sun doesn't make for the most outgoing person, but 12th house Sun is even less so. I felt isolated and confined, always acting from behind the scene (or my husband's back). I had to build my own world and convinced myself that I was happy. Not that it was very difficult, there are similarities between 8th and 12th house Suns, but by nature I am more social than 12th house Sun/Mars implies. My Sag Asc became Libra Asc with Pluto right on it, and poor Venus is also in the 12th. How outgoing is that?

I moved a few more times. For about three years we lived in an area I absolutely loved. I felt great there. I later looked at relocations: what a surprise! My Sun/Mars/Pluto moved to 1st house. Asc is in Virgo, and its ruler is also in the 1st. It was a tiny town, but my social life was booming, I studied for a new profession and got a job that I loved, my life was packed with experiences, I became a mother (I doubted I ever would), I discovered Astrology, I finally made a career choice (sure, it is 8th house related) and started college.

I didn't become a first-house-Sun person. But my Sun was easy to express there, and it felt goooood.

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BRILLIANT ASSESSMENT ! You really nailed it I think. The natal is ALWAYS there as a framework, but it will be expressed different ways in different places. Your example of the difference between having 1st house vs 12th
expression is vital.
I experienced similar things when I moved about in my younger years. Looking back I was able to see how it affected my life. So in my heart I know that relocated charts do work. But only in relation to your natal framework.

Absolutely! It is a common experience for people to move somewhere and feel better about themselves or worse about themselves; to expand into new areas of life, or to retreat into unhappy patterns. Hopefully the relocation chart can show what to expect.

A couple of years ago when my husband and I were ready to make a major move, I looked at relocation and astro*carto*graphy charts. One area that really interested me was on my Mars line, which natally is opposed by Saturn. Not wanting to engage in frustrating conflicts, we landed somewhere else, and it has worked out fine.

However, people do have to move a long distance away from their birth places to see a huge difference in planets' house locations.

Well I have done a relocation chart. It is COMPLETELY different to my natal chart. I am not sure whether I have done it right. I added a couple hours to my birth time as that's what time it would have bieng where I live now.....or do I just go ahead and type in the place where I live but leave the birth time intact?

noideaaboutastro said:

Well I have done a relocation chart. It is COMPLETELY different to my natal chart. I am not sure whether I have done it right. I added a couple hours to my birth time as that's what time it would have bieng where I live now.....or do I just go ahead and type in the place where I live but leave the birth time intact?

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You keep everything the same but the place. Use the same birthtime, but replace the city.

katydid said:

You keep everything the same but the place. Use the same birthtime, but replace the city.

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Done . What aspects do I look at to determine what has changed? Do I look at the chart by itself and what aspects it makes or do I contrast every planet/house with the natal chart?

noideaaboutastro said:

Done . What aspects do I look at to determine what has changed? Do I look at the chart by itself and what aspects it makes or do I contrast every planet/house with the natal chart?

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There should be no change in planetary aspects. They would be the same as in your natal. What changes is the angles and the house placements. You look to these differences between your natal and relocated. Especially where your Sun/Moon are located now, and what your Asc and MC are and any new aspects to them.

katydid said:

There should be no change in planetary aspects. They would be the same as in your natal. What changes is the angles and the house placements. You look to these differences between your natal and relocated. Especially where your Sun/Moon are located now, and what your Asc and MC are and any new aspects to them.

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Really?! Because I just changed the birth place but didn't change the time but some of the planetary aspects have changed in the new chart. For instance, I now have a Sun square Moon...... Most of the planets have stayed the same but this one is different. This is possible, right? Because that's what Mr Astro is telling me anyway...

noideaaboutastro said:

Really?! Because I just changed the birth place but didn't change the time but some of the planetary aspects have changed in the new chart. For instance, I now have a Sun square Moon...... Most of the planets have stayed the same but this one is different. This is possible, right? Because that's what Mr Astro is telling me anyway...

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PM me your birth data.

katydid said:

PM me your birth data.

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Thanks I have PM'd you .

I have finally figured out how the astro travel thing on astro.com works, and I've figured out maybe why I HATE this place where I live even though I've being living here for 15 years. It just doesn't feel like home. On astro it says that this place is Moon MC Uranus AC - which I believe cannot be that pleasant to live in. Trust me my life is a soap opera which I would dearly like to stop being so dramatic. I experimented in every place in this country and nowhere seems to be pleasant to live here for me (which I kind of guessed anyway) although some places are better than others. I don't understand why I loved living back home though - maybe since I was a child things were good. But it's on my Mars IC. That would mean lots of fighting and things going wrong yet I never noticed any of that, it was very pleasant and lots of people loved me and cared about me and my parents didn't have any emotional disturbances.

My son though has crossing crossing Sun AC and some squigly line I believe it to be Moon Node MC and he seems to be loving it, which is how I would interpret that as well. Back where I was born my son has Venus/Mercury DC which should be very pleasant also. In short - I lose, he wins.

katydid said:

You keep everything the same but the place. Use the same birthtime, but replace the city.

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Wait, is this right? I thought you change the city and birthtime to match the Sun's location???

So if someone is born July 4th at 7pm in New york, and they move to San Diego, then their relocated birthchart would be July 4th 4pm. Is this wrong??