Crystalpages
Well-known member
During many conversations between jyotishis on internet (and elsewhere too), we hear about a single factor, a combination (yoga) or some other planetary attribute, emphatic statements get made.
A strong statement was noticed a while ago (elsewhere):
** for Libra rising, Jupiter is out and out malefic. If he is combust, or placed in 6th or 8th he spares the native. That is my experience.**
Anecdotal statements like these get me thinking and I utilize collections of charts to verify this. For this particular claim, I used Astrodatabase (now dearly lamented because its life-support got withdrawn prematurely, even though the charts are available from Astrodienst but without the dearly missed search and filtering capabilities of the marvelous software :-(
So, I gave it a spin as a quick verification and chose some factors that indicate wealth, health and marriage related positive and negative states. In tula lagna, though mars is more indicative of marriage and family (2 and 7), I included it as an indicator of happiness and misery when adverse. Jupiter is karaka for wealth and expansion and specifically in tula lagnas, an indicator for sickness and health (VI). Standard positive placement (exaltation, own, friendly and in trines) as well as negative (combust, in trikas, debilitated or inimical houses) were chosen. More factors could have been chosen but it was supposed to be a quick test. Here is what emerged:
The first row of numbers is the number of charts
in a category (column). Subsequent rows represent the % value from those that showed up with the different filters for financial gains, losses, health etc.
Database of human A and AA birthdata (first filter) produced the following results (percentage values):
%
Category, Tula lagna, -JU combust &, -Ju in 6/8, +JU (ex ow fr ke trine,) -Ju (deb enemy trika)
n = (100% reference), 2690, 1587, 196, 226, 1777
Financial gains, 4.68, 4.41, 2.55, 4.49, 4.90
Financial losses, 4.87, 0.76, 0.51, 0.67, 0.56
Healthy, 1.23, 1.20, 1.02, 1.26, 1.35
Weak constitution, 0.22, 0.13, 0.00, 0.27, 0.17
Major Diseases, 6.62, 7.18, 7.65, 6.65, 6.87
Marriage good, 3.12, 2.33, 2.04, 3.10, 3.38
Marr. bad/divorc./widow., 4.05, 4.98, 4.59, 5.44, 4.39
(unfortunately, table is not showing properly, so you will have to use the commas in the table as column separators! My apologies for the inconvenience!! Selecting and copying the table as a block, saving it as a notepad file with .csv extension and then importing into a spreadsheet should enable you to see the columns separated properly. If other more experienced members can help me learn how to include tables properly so that they show up as tables in the forum postings, that would be greatly appreciated!)
Briefly, lower percent value would mean fewer hits (data does not fit the hypothesis statement) and comparison between the + and - columns would indicate the importance of the categorization or filter used.
Looks like disappointingly minor influence as a reliable factor between the + and - states! I was hoping to see at least some strong ripples in the health area but even there it is insignificant, since both + and - columns have very similar number of hits.
Time and again, when such one factor pronounced are tossed at a number of charts, anecdotal impressions often coming as strong claims seem to fail! Why do we jyotishis still adamantly continue to throw these at others and still claim and cling tooth and nail to our original positions is beyond comprehension! To me this glaringly has meant that while such statements are not false or unimportant, but rather strongly pointing as 'flags' the NEED to probe and examine further and we will probably come to the conclusion that something else needs to be looked at! Perhaps the finer vargas, perhaps the individual composite strength of jupiter (in this case), other planetary influences on jupiter and houses concerned, ashtakavarga, nakshatras involved, and similar other nuances that makes or breaks the original premise, as the one that initiated this examination!
The more I experience jyotish, the more convinced I become about the futility of such one factor pigeon-holing that to some degree or other we fall prey to, at least when describing astrological rules and dasa effects etc! Sadly, fact of the matter is that we can ONLY learn these factors one by one, but then we must not use those as our walking sticks adamantly but realize that we use those in to the synthesis of a reading in a matrix-integrated manner. That is what alone I had been harping about whether anyone accepts or not, admits or not! I realize that all experienced jyotishis are already doing such a synthesis and also stating what I am, but I thought some numbers might make it clearer than statements.
Another recent example when the cold examination was aimed towards a group of charts!
The statement (hypothesis) was
**According to some seers,one may have faith in God,if the Ascendant is not afflicted and its lord occupy kendra/trikona/ucha/mooltrikona/swashetra/mithru/dhanalaabha isthana .Further placement of subha grha in Ascendant or their drishti to it, is considered to give uttama palan.**
7 out of 15 atheists fit in the parameters given above (About 50% defy the rule, in other words).
Most effective filter was Ruler of 1 in houses 1, 4, 5, 7, 9 and 10 seen in the atheists!
59 out of 123 religious nativities fit the same filters. Again the most effective filter was the one that worked best for the opposite category (Less than 50% fit the rule, in other words).
Without belabouring the point, I am really curious about this human tendency of 'latching on to personal observations!'
What is a gift for us human beings is also the naked edge of the razor on which we all walk, and which seeds our beliefs and also biases; particularly subjective ones :-(
Astrologers are prone to that as much as any other Tom, Ahmed and Hari, amongst us!
Many Simha (LEO) lagnas, regardless of whether sun is weak or strong, have struck me as clearly displaying the trait of generosity (in general), yet remaining extremely territorial and protective of their territories (family, work, friends, lovers, underlings, etc). But I shall NEVER dare to make a pronouncement that ALL Leos are like that or could be like that!
Similarily, Pisces can be very indecisive, unsure, literally floundering and flopping about, but also deep divers in a metaphorical sense and regardless of where jupiter is, although that is an important 'fishing hook' if you catch my *drift*! But I will never make the claim that all or even most *fish* are like that!
Or the remaining 10 categories at the gross-sthula-superficial level for that matter!
The Great Ancients have bequeathed and gifted us with an intricate and very rich information matrix of tips and hints and pointers and Kalki awataar love him or hate him, gave us tools to get really *plugged-in* but some if not many seem to float, flounder and just make froth out of water (surface waters!).
Humbly submitted for your kind perusal and pondering...,
Love and Light,
Rohiniranjan
A strong statement was noticed a while ago (elsewhere):
** for Libra rising, Jupiter is out and out malefic. If he is combust, or placed in 6th or 8th he spares the native. That is my experience.**
Anecdotal statements like these get me thinking and I utilize collections of charts to verify this. For this particular claim, I used Astrodatabase (now dearly lamented because its life-support got withdrawn prematurely, even though the charts are available from Astrodienst but without the dearly missed search and filtering capabilities of the marvelous software :-(
So, I gave it a spin as a quick verification and chose some factors that indicate wealth, health and marriage related positive and negative states. In tula lagna, though mars is more indicative of marriage and family (2 and 7), I included it as an indicator of happiness and misery when adverse. Jupiter is karaka for wealth and expansion and specifically in tula lagnas, an indicator for sickness and health (VI). Standard positive placement (exaltation, own, friendly and in trines) as well as negative (combust, in trikas, debilitated or inimical houses) were chosen. More factors could have been chosen but it was supposed to be a quick test. Here is what emerged:
The first row of numbers is the number of charts
in a category (column). Subsequent rows represent the % value from those that showed up with the different filters for financial gains, losses, health etc.Database of human A and AA birthdata (first filter) produced the following results (percentage values):
%
Category, Tula lagna, -JU combust &, -Ju in 6/8, +JU (ex ow fr ke trine,) -Ju (deb enemy trika)
n = (100% reference), 2690, 1587, 196, 226, 1777
Financial gains, 4.68, 4.41, 2.55, 4.49, 4.90
Financial losses, 4.87, 0.76, 0.51, 0.67, 0.56
Healthy, 1.23, 1.20, 1.02, 1.26, 1.35
Weak constitution, 0.22, 0.13, 0.00, 0.27, 0.17
Major Diseases, 6.62, 7.18, 7.65, 6.65, 6.87
Marriage good, 3.12, 2.33, 2.04, 3.10, 3.38
Marr. bad/divorc./widow., 4.05, 4.98, 4.59, 5.44, 4.39
(unfortunately, table is not showing properly, so you will have to use the commas in the table as column separators! My apologies for the inconvenience!! Selecting and copying the table as a block, saving it as a notepad file with .csv extension and then importing into a spreadsheet should enable you to see the columns separated properly. If other more experienced members can help me learn how to include tables properly so that they show up as tables in the forum postings, that would be greatly appreciated!)
Briefly, lower percent value would mean fewer hits (data does not fit the hypothesis statement) and comparison between the + and - columns would indicate the importance of the categorization or filter used.
Looks like disappointingly minor influence as a reliable factor between the + and - states! I was hoping to see at least some strong ripples in the health area but even there it is insignificant, since both + and - columns have very similar number of hits.
Time and again, when such one factor pronounced are tossed at a number of charts, anecdotal impressions often coming as strong claims seem to fail! Why do we jyotishis still adamantly continue to throw these at others and still claim and cling tooth and nail to our original positions is beyond comprehension! To me this glaringly has meant that while such statements are not false or unimportant, but rather strongly pointing as 'flags' the NEED to probe and examine further and we will probably come to the conclusion that something else needs to be looked at! Perhaps the finer vargas, perhaps the individual composite strength of jupiter (in this case), other planetary influences on jupiter and houses concerned, ashtakavarga, nakshatras involved, and similar other nuances that makes or breaks the original premise, as the one that initiated this examination!
The more I experience jyotish, the more convinced I become about the futility of such one factor pigeon-holing that to some degree or other we fall prey to, at least when describing astrological rules and dasa effects etc! Sadly, fact of the matter is that we can ONLY learn these factors one by one, but then we must not use those as our walking sticks adamantly but realize that we use those in to the synthesis of a reading in a matrix-integrated manner. That is what alone I had been harping about whether anyone accepts or not, admits or not! I realize that all experienced jyotishis are already doing such a synthesis and also stating what I am, but I thought some numbers might make it clearer than statements.
Another recent example when the cold examination was aimed towards a group of charts!
The statement (hypothesis) was
**According to some seers,one may have faith in God,if the Ascendant is not afflicted and its lord occupy kendra/trikona/ucha/mooltrikona/swashetra/mithru/dhanalaabha isthana .Further placement of subha grha in Ascendant or their drishti to it, is considered to give uttama palan.**
7 out of 15 atheists fit in the parameters given above (About 50% defy the rule, in other words).
Most effective filter was Ruler of 1 in houses 1, 4, 5, 7, 9 and 10 seen in the atheists!
59 out of 123 religious nativities fit the same filters. Again the most effective filter was the one that worked best for the opposite category (Less than 50% fit the rule, in other words).
Without belabouring the point, I am really curious about this human tendency of 'latching on to personal observations!'
What is a gift for us human beings is also the naked edge of the razor on which we all walk, and which seeds our beliefs and also biases; particularly subjective ones :-(
Astrologers are prone to that as much as any other Tom, Ahmed and Hari, amongst us!
Many Simha (LEO) lagnas, regardless of whether sun is weak or strong, have struck me as clearly displaying the trait of generosity (in general), yet remaining extremely territorial and protective of their territories (family, work, friends, lovers, underlings, etc). But I shall NEVER dare to make a pronouncement that ALL Leos are like that or could be like that!
Similarily, Pisces can be very indecisive, unsure, literally floundering and flopping about, but also deep divers in a metaphorical sense and regardless of where jupiter is, although that is an important 'fishing hook' if you catch my *drift*! But I will never make the claim that all or even most *fish* are like that!
Or the remaining 10 categories at the gross-sthula-superficial level for that matter!
The Great Ancients have bequeathed and gifted us with an intricate and very rich information matrix of tips and hints and pointers and Kalki awataar love him or hate him, gave us tools to get really *plugged-in* but some if not many seem to float, flounder and just make froth out of water (surface waters!).
Humbly submitted for your kind perusal and pondering...,
Love and Light,
Rohiniranjan
Last edited:
! Thank you for the reference-and, indeed, for writing this article!