david starling
Well-known member
"Handled". So it's over, and behind us now? The "Democratic" governors of Texas, Arizona, and Florida may have to disagree with that assessment.
Black Lives Matter, Marxist?
- Thread starter katydid
- Start date
"Handled". So it's over, and behind us now? The "Democratic" governors of Texas, Arizona, and Florida may have to disagree with that assessment.
The Democrat Governor of NY could have sent the sick covid19 patients to the ship and other facilities that Trump gave the state. Instead, he signed an order to send them to nursing homes where they died by the thousands. 
The Cuomo Administration Hasn’t Said Which Nursing Homes Were Infected With COVID-19 After Its Order Sent Positive Patients Into Them
Dozens of New York nursing homes didn’t see their first COVID-19 case until sick patients were sent there, many under Andrew Cuomo’s state policy. To date, 6% of the state’s nursing home population, or roughly 6,500 residents, have died.
The Cuomo Administration Hasn’t Said Which Nursing Homes Were Infected With COVID-19 After Its Order Sent Positive Patients Into Them
Dozens of New York nursing homes didn’t see their first COVID-19 case until sick patients were sent there, many under Andrew Cuomo’s state policy. To date, 6% of the state’s nursing home population, or roughly 6,500 residents, have died.
ONE billion dollars in property damage, 30 people killed (mostly black) and untold damage in the future for the inner-cities when the police have left.
Thousands arrested, 14,000 but most were bailed out or released because you can't convict anyone nowadays when it concerns BLM. When there's no police and no convictions, the result is complete lawlessness and that's the way the country is headed unless Trump wins re-election. He is the law and order president.
It's time for a lot of perspective. Trying to ignore what has happened and what will happen will never solve the situation. 70% and getting higher by the week of Americans think BLM have caused more racial tensions and not achieved anything positive for the black or white communities.
The destruction of property, numerous burnings of American flags and violent acts against both civilians and law enforcement has not only been detrimental to the supposed purpose of the Black Lives Matter movement, but it has painted a picture of them in the eyes of the nation that they are doing little to change.
Thousands arrested, 14,000 but most were bailed out or released because you can't convict anyone nowadays when it concerns BLM. When there's no police and no convictions, the result is complete lawlessness and that's the way the country is headed unless Trump wins re-election. He is the law and order president.
It's time for a lot of perspective. Trying to ignore what has happened and what will happen will never solve the situation. 70% and getting higher by the week of Americans think BLM have caused more racial tensions and not achieved anything positive for the black or white communities.
The destruction of property, numerous burnings of American flags and violent acts against both civilians and law enforcement has not only been detrimental to the supposed purpose of the Black Lives Matter movement, but it has painted a picture of them in the eyes of the nation that they are doing little to change.
david starling
Well-known member
The anarchists know that Trump's on their side. They'll do whatever they can to get him reelected, so that the destruction of the United States of America under the Constitution will continue.
"A house divided against itself cannot stand." -{Abraham Lincoln}
Trump is the Great Divider.
"A house divided against itself cannot stand." -{Abraham Lincoln}
Trump is the Great Divider.
waybread
Well-known member
The overwhelming majority of people who participated in Black Lives Matter demonstrations were peaceful.
Dirius, people who were already residents of nursing homes got sick and some died. Part of the blame is on the nursing home directors who were unprepared for Covid-19 and didn't prepare their staff or isolate their patients as much as they should have.
Right now the USA is the covid capital of the world, and its rates are high when you pro-rate for population.
If you scroll down on this site, you can compare nations by looking at the columns for cases per million population and deaths per million population.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeADemocracynow(2020) dvegas1?
No drug that Trump recommended "has proven successful in curing the disease." Some drugs can give sick patients better outcomes but there is no magic pill for CV-19.
Actually Trump threatened to withhold CV-19 aid from governors if he didn't find them sufficiently appreciative. Then some Republicans pointed out to him that he would only hurt the health of Republicans in states with Democratic governors.
Darius, from what actual sources are you getting your news? I'd like to look at them.
Dirius
Well-known member
- If they are burning cities and looting, they are not peaceful. Do you have a percentage of how many of them were peaceful? If you don't, you have no way to back your statement.
- Cuomo and other governos, passed executive orders forcing the transfer of covid infected patients into nursing homes. It was not the nursing homes fault for not being prepared. The local governors did a bad job.
- Hydroxychloroquine has been shown to have great results, by a number of studies, but supressed by the media. https://c19study.com/
- Trump refused to provide federal financial aid for states in regards to other econmic problems; the general tax-payer shouldn't be made to afford the bill of California's bad economic policy. Trump did provide aid specifically for Covid19 pandemic.
At this point you are just being dishonest about the reality of the issue.
You are willing to deflect blame from people like cuomo, whose stupidity claimed the lives of thousands, just because of ideology, or to blame Trump.
Re: Aunt on Facebook
You have your head buried in the sand. Go to the links, which I will provide below, and go to the CHAT room, and see what the protesters are discussing.
I have been going to their chats and their LIVE STREAMS of the riots in Portland
for over 40 days now. This is not mainly about police brutality---they admit it.
This is anarchists, marxists, communists and agitators thAt are engaging with our police and soldiers, every single night, until sunrise.
And yes, these are ideologues. Marxists, Communists, Anarchists that ALL want to overthrow our government. They discuss that with each other in CHAT. The reason they are engaging our police at the federal buildings EVERY SINGLE NIGHT, ALL NIGHT is because it is damaging the city and the police force and bankrupting them. And demoralising them, forcing many cops into early retirement, convincing many former applicants to hesitate joining.
The police are presently overwhelmed by this Antifa show of force, and violent crime in other areas of the cities are surging. Shootings and armed robberies have skyrocketed. Shopping districts and local businesses remain locked down. And the protesters are spreading the Covid19 virus all around as they run amuck .This is a multi-level attack on several of our cities and should not be overlooked or downplayed.
At this point they have OCCUPIED small portions of American cities and bankrupted a few police forces. If that doesn't worry you a bit, then I don't know what to say.
Maybe it is my Capricorn Moon talking, but I really don't like to see the constant civil unrest and vile disrespect that I have been seeing.
These links don't go online until about 8 or 9 pm, PST:
https://www.twitch.tv/woke
https://www.twitch.tv/anitanoellegreen
https://www.twitch.tv/teebsgaming
You have your head buried in the sand. Go to the links, which I will provide below, and go to the CHAT room, and see what the protesters are discussing.
I have been going to their chats and their LIVE STREAMS of the riots in Portland
for over 40 days now. This is not mainly about police brutality---they admit it.
This is anarchists, marxists, communists and agitators thAt are engaging with our police and soldiers, every single night, until sunrise.
And yes, these are ideologues. Marxists, Communists, Anarchists that ALL want to overthrow our government. They discuss that with each other in CHAT. The reason they are engaging our police at the federal buildings EVERY SINGLE NIGHT, ALL NIGHT is because it is damaging the city and the police force and bankrupting them. And demoralising them, forcing many cops into early retirement, convincing many former applicants to hesitate joining.
The police are presently overwhelmed by this Antifa show of force, and violent crime in other areas of the cities are surging. Shootings and armed robberies have skyrocketed. Shopping districts and local businesses remain locked down. And the protesters are spreading the Covid19 virus all around as they run amuck .This is a multi-level attack on several of our cities and should not be overlooked or downplayed.
At this point they have OCCUPIED small portions of American cities and bankrupted a few police forces. If that doesn't worry you a bit, then I don't know what to say.
Maybe it is my Capricorn Moon talking, but I really don't like to see the constant civil unrest and vile disrespect that I have been seeing.
These links don't go online until about 8 or 9 pm, PST:
https://www.twitch.tv/woke
https://www.twitch.tv/anitanoellegreen
https://www.twitch.tv/teebsgaming
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waybread
Well-known member
Well, you have some numbers for people whom you thought were violent, based on what data I'm unclear. According to Wikipedia, an estimated 15 to 26 million people participated in demonstrations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black... million to,largest movements in U.S. history.
The New York Times gave the same numbers, saying they were based on four polls. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/07/03/us/george-floyd-protests-crowd-size.html You can look at the polling results via links on these articles. The Pew and Kaiser Family Foundation polls are highly respected.
So even if we take the low number of 15 million for Americans who participated in Black Lives Matter demonstrations, that is dramatically higher than the numbers you gave for violent protesters.
According to the Associated Press, 4500 recovering CV-19 patients were sent to nursing homes, a directive that Gov. Cuomo reversed on May 10. Agreed that this was a really bad idea. His intention was to free up hospital beds for incoming hospital patients. https://apnews.com/5ebc0ad45b73a899efa81f098330204c
I recommend this article because it has a map showing CV-19 cases per 100,000 population. Even though the counties are of different sizes, you can at least compare parts of the US. Hardest hit is the Navajo reservation in Arizona. Also, take a look at the heavily Republican-dominated Southeast.
The drug has been shown to be worthless.
Some of the governors who did "a really bad job" are Republicans: Florida, Texas, and Arizona.
It's too easy for you to call me "dishonest," Dirius when your facts are wrong. This kind of mud-slinging does not further your arguments.
I don't know what your point is about "other economic problems." And yes, as a US citizen in Canada I got a nice check for $1200 from Donald Trump. So did over a few million other overseas Americans and dead people.
Cuomo exhibited some really bad judgement in the nursing home issue, although his intentions were good. I could care less about his ideology. Trump badly managed the pandemic, so yes-- he deserves a lot of blame.
Hard to say what was his "ideology."
Re: Aunt on Facebook
Because they are trying to prevent his reelection. He had the economy humming along and his reelection chances looked pretty good. Then the pandemic happened and he was scrambling to get things back on track.
This civil unrest is their last ditch effort to try and destabilise the country.
Ironically, it may be helping his reelection chances.
Because they are trying to prevent his reelection. He had the economy humming along and his reelection chances looked pretty good. Then the pandemic happened and he was scrambling to get things back on track.
This civil unrest is their last ditch effort to try and destabilise the country.
Ironically, it may be helping his reelection chances.
It doesn't matter if there were 70 or 80% 'peaceful' protesters. The fact remains that the hardcore 'rioters' that still persist, in Portland, Seattle, NYC , ARE not peaceful.
They are starting fires, throwing projectiles and bottles at cops, aiming strong lasers at their faces trying to hurt their eyes, defacing property, breaking windows and doors in the federal buildings,vandalizing/looting stores/businesses assaulting people who pass by , etc etc.
They shot a young mom in the head because when a group of BLM protesters said Black Lives Matter to her, she replied 'ALL Lives Matter.' A scuffle broke out but both sides separated. Then an hour later, she and her friends were ambushed by them, and she was shot in the head. And died.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/indiana-woman-shot-killed-argument-black-lives-matter-supporters
So just because 80% or more of the protesters were peaceful, that does not mean that the remaining percentage is not doing damage.
https://www.newsy.com/stories/police-report-23m-in-damage-from-portland-protests/
July 10, 2020
Police blame a small "agitator corps" for major destruction in downtown Portland, Oregon.
"...But on Wednesday, they blamed a small (quote) "agitator corps" for violence, mayhem and more than $23 million in damage to the downtown.
"Aerial fireworks, mortars, M-80s and bricks were thrown at officers as they attempted to get the crowd to disperse, putting their life and safety at risk. Some businesses sustained damages and fires were lit throughout the area. All of these criminal acts put everyone at risk. We want community members to feel free to express themselves peacefully. Some of what I have witnessed tonight by a small group of individuals was not peaceful. It was aggressive and dangerous."
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The opposite is happening. In reality, the national news is downplaying the violent aftermath of the 'peaceful' protests.
There are dozens of cities that suffered millions of dollars in damages from arson, looting, vandalism, etc. And the areas remained locked down for weeks because of continued 'peaceful' protesting. Which resulted in even more financial losses.
Many of the businesses will never recover.
david starling
Well-known member
Fox News is reporting it, and it's all over the internet.
david starling
Well-known member
As waybread pointed out, a very small percentage of BLM protesters are involved in the violence. Personally, I think it's nihilistic anarchists using the BLM movement as cover for their rage and destructiveness. They're actually helping Trump, but they don't even care about politics.
aquarius7000
Well-known member
In any case, violent cops misusing their power, racist leaders, violent protesters are all menacing, insecure twits.
Dirius
Well-known member
Yeah - self reported polls over the internet, with around 2000 participants in it, from which 10% of them answered they have "participated" (which includes sharing stuff in social media), 200 participants somehow nets 15 million people.
The numbers I provided are from actual arrests, not data from the twitterverse.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/
This is the statistics of number of deaths per state for every 100k people.
New Jersey leads with 176
New York second with 167
Lets check the ones you mentioned:
Arizona 34
Florida 22
Texas 13
Dunno, these republican governos looking pretty good in comparisoin with inept Cuomo and his buddies.
Because you are. You are trying to put blame on Trump for covid19, even though he is not directly responsible, and nevertheless had an appropiate response, while you dismiss allegations against inept governos. This is just ideological bias, plain and simple.
The blue states are top of the list on death rates, yet you blame republican controlled states as if they were the worst, while they are actually doing better.
The BLM number comes from the democrat controlled poll stations, from self reported internet surveys. Its a joke.
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aquarius7000
Well-known member
Let us have a look together
US makes up 4% of the global population.
No. of confirmed Covid cases as of this moment: 3.68 million (25% of global covid cases)
No. of covid deaths: 141,000
As to the countries worst hit by covid per capita: https://covid19.who.int/?gclid=CjwK...PHI9GMJCWjee6AkVHSI5trls3jfwx7OxoClmsQAvD_BwE
Dirius
Well-known member
The U.S. is one the 3 largest destinations for tourist travel in the world.
The U.S. is also from where most international tourists originate.
The U.S. is also the largest destination for business travel in the world.
Finally, the U.S. is among the most populated countries on earth.
The country has 6 times the population of the most european countries.
When you combine the four, its obvious the country has more people coming in, who are potential carriers, than most of the world. It also has the largest number of people who travel around the world, both in regards to business and tourism, and may return to the country infected with the virus - and also has some of the most populated cities on earth.
Thus its not surprising the number of covid cases is much more higher than the rest of the world.
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aquarius7000
Well-known member
Social distancing is the mantra (besides wearing a mask) during covid. So where would it be easier to social distance - in more densely populated areas or less? So lets us use the two geographies you used: Europe vs. the US and have a look together again:
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.POP.DNST?locations=US-XC-EU
Dirius
Well-known member
Europe is not a country, its a continent.
Covid19 didn't hit all of Europe in the same manner. Each country had a different response and measures tailored to its demographic.
Death rate in the US is around 3.8% of infected.
Death rate in the UK is around 15% of those infected.
Death rate in Spain is around 9% of those infected.
Death rate in France is around 17% of those infected.
The US is doing much much much better than big european countries ... much less deaths per total infected. People are more likely to survive in the US than in Europe.
Granted, we must consider europe was hit a bit sooner with the pandemic than the US. They also have an aging population. But this then would show the US did took measures before the pandemic begun its spread through the country.
This also shows two possible things:
a) Either the US government response was overall good.
b) Or the US health-care system is overall better than European socialized health-care.
Take your pick. But neither of these will be to your satisfaction.
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waybread
Well-known member
Re: Aunt on Facebook
Katydid, I have to point out that these chats are not representative polls. They're just people expressing themselves via social media. Something like 15 million to 26 million Americans participated in Black Lives Matter demonstrations. The vast majority of them were entirely peaceful.
Are there Marxists in the United States? Are there people who hate the United States on both the extreme left and right? Yes, there are. Are there people who like to post about their extreme beliefs among both radicals and reactionaries? Yes, of course.
But the people who bother you so much are a tiny minority of the US population. And then most of the people who bother you so much may talk tough, but they're in no position to overthrow the United States.
Portland (on the Left Coast) is still a hot spot, but how many other cities are right now? Arguably the city council and mayor have badly mismanaged the situation in Portland to let it get so far out of hand, but the violent ones are hardly representative of the majority of Americans who believe in improving social justice for visible minorities. The radical fringe does not speak for us.
As I've explained repeatedly, the First Amendment protects a lot of political speech that you or I might find distasteful. That is a cost of living in a democracy.
Maybe Donald Trump should crack down on those anti-American chats and live streams. Or maybe Trump thinks it's to his political advantage to encourage the right wing believe thatviolent anarchists somehow represent the Democratic party-- as per this campaign ad:
https://thehill.com/homenews/campai...-to-defund-police-effort-warns-americans-wont
Katydid, I have to point out that these chats are not representative polls. They're just people expressing themselves via social media. Something like 15 million to 26 million Americans participated in Black Lives Matter demonstrations. The vast majority of them were entirely peaceful.
Are there Marxists in the United States? Are there people who hate the United States on both the extreme left and right? Yes, there are. Are there people who like to post about their extreme beliefs among both radicals and reactionaries? Yes, of course.
But the people who bother you so much are a tiny minority of the US population. And then most of the people who bother you so much may talk tough, but they're in no position to overthrow the United States.
Portland (on the Left Coast) is still a hot spot, but how many other cities are right now? Arguably the city council and mayor have badly mismanaged the situation in Portland to let it get so far out of hand, but the violent ones are hardly representative of the majority of Americans who believe in improving social justice for visible minorities. The radical fringe does not speak for us.
As I've explained repeatedly, the First Amendment protects a lot of political speech that you or I might find distasteful. That is a cost of living in a democracy.
Maybe Donald Trump should crack down on those anti-American chats and live streams. Or maybe Trump thinks it's to his political advantage to encourage the right wing believe thatviolent anarchists somehow represent the Democratic party-- as per this campaign ad:
https://thehill.com/homenews/campai...-to-defund-police-effort-warns-americans-wont