Did Bill kill his father?

lillyjgc

Senior Member, Educational board Editor
Hi Folks:
The background:
In 1955 a man was found dead in his house. A gun was nearby. It was presumed he had killed himself. There was a coronial enquiry who put his death down to suicide despite noting there was no motive for this man to kill himself.He had arranged to meet his best friend for dinner that night.He had found out that very day, about four hours before he died that his son's wife was pregnant.She was the last person to see him alive.
The crime scene had been *interfered with* but no-one was ever identified as being there . Bill apparently discovered his fathers body about 5.00pm.
The best friend he was to meet for dinner that night never believed it was suicide and before he died wanted the case re-opened.

This is a truly fascinating case....Hope you horary addicts out there will enjoy it!
Feel free to start while I prepare my own interpretation.

The Data:
Did Bill Kill his Father?
11 Dec 2007
04:02:00
Sydney Australia
20.42 Scorpio asc.
Cheers,
lillyjgc
 
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lillyjgc

Senior Member, Educational board Editor
Heres my take on it:
Bill is ruled by the ascendant: scorpio (hidden matters). Mars rules scorpio and is retrograde in cancer in the eighth house of death-so Bill is certainly dealing with a death matter.

His father would be ruled by the fourth cusp-saturn,which *fits*-saturn in virgo in the 11th (his derived eighth house of death, but also financial matters...Bills father , saturn,is not strong in virgo-opposite uranus in his derived second and Bills fifth house of children. (Bills wife told Bills father she was unexpectedly *4 months pregnant* that very day, which judging by the saturn/uranus opposition came as shock to him).

The saturn/uranus opposition does suggest a sudden disruptive event which death surely is.Pars fortuna in Bills first house, BTW, squared saturn 7 *somethings* ago-weeks?
I don't normally *use* quintiles in horary but in this case I notice a close quintile between saturn (father) and the ascendant, Bill -and as quintiles imply a gentle energy it is suggesting the relationship between Bill and his father was relatively untroubled..Mars,Bill's ruler, is also sextile Saturn but separating from that sextile-neither planet strong in dignity or position.

the father's ruler is in h11-he was planning to meet a friend at a club that evening.He was not in good health so saturn in virgo well describes him.
In Bills second, mercury approaches the sun, in Sag-jupiter's sign-the sign that rules legal matters. Of course there was a coronial enquiry after this apparent suicide and Bill would be part of it as it was he who discovered the body.

The moon on the cusp of h3 is void of course.About though to enter capricorn, the sign of the authorities and in this chart Saturn, (the father)...a lot of communications, short trips and an inquest that resulted in a finding of *suicide* with evidential discrepancies noted.
Neptune is in the fathers first house (Bill's fourth) so confusion surrounds the end of the matter concerning Bills fathers death.

Bills wife was the only other person to have seen Bills father that day. She stopped by to tell him she was pregnant,sometime in the afternoon- he mentioned it to the friend he was planning to meet for dinner.
The Node is spot on the cusp of house 5-Bills house of children.
Bills wife would be signified by the cusp of H7,therefore venus. Venus is hidden in Bills H12,applying to a trine with neptune in Bills fathers first..she contributes to the confusion about what happened?She is in the same sign as Bill and in her detriment.Venus applies to a sextile to saturn...Bill's father.In fact, all three are conjoined by a chain of sextile:
Venus to saturn to mars.While Bills wife APPLIES her sextile to Bills father, Bill withdraws from his connection to them.
Venus is trine the node on the cusp of Bills fifth-the pregnancy-it trined 4 somethings ago when she fell pregnant.
Turning the chart, the wifes eighth is Bills second-the sun on the cusp there,having squared uranus 3 *somethings* ago- discovering she might be unexpectedly pregnant?
The sun will conjunct jupiter and pluto as the inquest tries to solve what happened.Interestingly, the sun had squared saturn about 10 somethings ago...
At the time I do this chart -about 52 years after the event, saturn is about to retrograde into the tenth house of public matters.
Maybe the fathers friend will get his wish and the case may be re-opened..
Any insights appreciated.
Lillyjgc
 

starlink

Well-known member
Hello Lilly, I always first do the "yes & No" technique of Jones. Therefore we look at the 8th as the case has to do with death and the opposite house (that what opposes it as he calls it). OK, 8th house of Bill is ruled by Mercury and the opposite house by Jupiter. Do they make a positive (Yes) or a negative (NO) aspect? Mercury is going to conjunct Jupiter.(I believe that that in this technique you dont look at retrograde planets, nor at other aspects to the main two, so the Sun here is not important and does not obstruct. The answer therfore is a YES.
Now looking at it the normal way, Bill is Mars and his father is Saturn. Mars will sextile Saturn, so Bill had an opportunity to kill. But Mars is in Cancer and in the 8th and therefore strong in the 8th and also ruler of Cancer by day and night!He is also in term of Jupiter (firearms?) Did he want to borrow money from his dad or was he in dept with his father? Saturn is in term of Venus (received by Venus so I guess she liked him). Ruler of fathers house of endings would be something to look at I would say.How did he die? It is ruled by Venus. Venus is in Scorpio in the 12th in terms of Mars. He was alone and the square to Neptune in his own first house could point at himself pulling the trigger. Difficult one, I never read about a chart. I wished there would be others who could look at this, like Radu whom I have not seen in yonks!! not to speak about Draco, our horary moderator. Have you any idea what happened to him? Pity, they were good at horary. cheers, Star.
 
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lillyjgc

Senior Member, Educational board Editor
Hi Starlink-Thanks so much for taking a look at this.
BTW:The main characters in this are now deceased so I think it's ok to run the chart.
Apparently Bill's father shot himself with a gun. He had money worries and there were possibly debts between Bill and his father. Just prior to the shooting Bill and his wife had lived in the same house as Bill's father but they moved out shortly before the death. It is not known why they moved out.
The *best friend* of Bill's father though did not believe that the guy killed himself and thinks that events of the actual day hold the key. As he said *Something happened that day that changed everything*.
Of course being a very scorpionic astrologer I am keen to get to the bottom of the matter..I love *unsolved mysteries*
I intend to apply for access to the Coroners Report under the Freedom of Information Act, but I dont know how I will go there. Its been over 50 years so maybe it will be Ok by law.
Solving this through astrology though is a challenge I just couldn't ignore.
Bill had both opportunity and maybe motive.
Bills wife also had opportunity, but motive>? Her ruler is debilitated in vengeful scorpio....What secret was she keeping? Bills ruler was debilitated in
cancer, weak, suggestion of family matters and sorrows...Its interesting that Bills wife appears in Bills twelfth house....as she was newly pregnant I am surprised she is in that house, although she went to the doctors that day to get her pregnancy results-a sixth house activity and in the derived chart its her sixth.....
After Bills father died, the family business was sold and Bill was excluded from the will. No-one knows why....And the will was not contested..
Its quite possible that like you say, Bill was either in debt to his father, or asking for money-Bill and his wife were renting at the time and they may have wanted to borrow money to buy a house....
If I can find out what time the event was discovered, exactly, via police report, I can set up an event chart, which may yield more information.
I appreciate your insight on this Star...I've never done a chart of this nature before so I hope if anyones out there who has, he/she may also like to share ideas....Thanx.
Cheers,
Lillyjgc
 

starlink

Well-known member
Hi Lilly!I just lost my reply. Here I go again. I wrote that I actually did write (but decided to delete it again) that I thought that Bills father had problems with his business in connection with finances. Dont know why I left that out.
Of course being a very scorpionic astrologer I am keen to get to the bottom of the matter..I love *unsolved mysteries*
SO AM I!!!
After Bills father died, the family business was sold and Bill was excluded from the will.
Now that is interesting! This could have been a motive but I doubt that Bill knew about this, unless his father told him about it. The business could have been sold for little money I think. The ruler of Fathers 10th in 8, weak. Fathers money is shown by the exact conjunction from Jupiter with Pluto (bankrupty?). I just cant resist to use Pluto here as Jupiter is practically on top of him.

How did you get to this story in the first place? Is there something in the internet about "unsolved mysteries"? Curious to know.

Cheers, Star.
 

lillyjgc

Senior Member, Educational board Editor
Starlink: This question has come to me from a friend, who is the daughter Bills wife was expecting at the time..
star I agree that in the fifties bankruptcy could well be a *trigger* for sudden suicide. Perhaps the news that he was about to become a grandfather wasn't the only news he received that day. Its intriguing how birth and death are often linked up.
Yes I would read jupiter on top of pluto that way too...Saturn opposite uranus is probably an indication of a sudden disruption, sudden news...that set off a chain of events....
Will keep you posted.
Thankyou Star
Lillyjgc
 

daisy1

Member
hey, any one out there who would like to continue pursuing this one???????
as it happens i am the grand daughter of the first stated deceased
lillygjc was my half sibling - much loved and deeply missed......
she helped me with so many questions and some of you here on this forum have proved to me that you are indeed excellent at this stuff.
names that i recall are starlink, archergirl radu... i am sure other names will come to me....
i have applied for the transcript of the coroners inquest.
if you / any one out there??!!! is interested i can supply a bit more info - so far i have the date of the death. my own birth date and place as well, the daughter in laws birthdate and place - i figured since when i was 17 the old mans best freind begged me to get his mates name cleared before i died!!! so i am finally going to do that...
any help will be appreciated - i was thinking maybe to do some retro progressed transits for each of the players on that day (inlcuding my own) maybe there would be something there that relates to the events of the day as they unfolded.
i trust the charts and the horaries and i know they will answer what the court couldn't
i also know i need actual and provable facts to base them on..
 
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