How does one determine sect?

david starling

Well-known member
So, best to have Venus in tune with the Moon in N-C, and Jupiter with the Sun in D-C. That would mean same Sign or at least same Element, and tight Orb even better:conjunct::trine:
Any Traditional reason why Moon and Venus in Aquarius, the Sign that Saturn Day-rules, would be especially good at mitigating Saturn (in Leo) in my Night-chart?
 
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Oddity

Well-known member
Being in opposition, they're unlikely to mitigate Saturn, especially since it's in fall.

Because they're benefics and in the twelfth house, they can mitigate some of the harm there.

Does Cap fall on the MC or 11th? How have those areas been?

Also bear in mind that planets do not act upon you constantly. There's all kinds of not-very-exciting time in most of our lives. Mixed in with a bit of way-too-exciting.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Being in opposition, they're unlikely to mitigate Saturn, especially since it's in fall.

Because they're benefics and in the twelfth house, they can mitigate some of the harm there.

Does Cap fall on the MC or 11th? How have those areas been?

Also bear in mind that planets do not act upon you constantly. There's all kinds of not-very-exciting time in most of our lives. Mixed in with a bit of way-too-exciting.

Cap. in H11 (Whole-sign) and is unoccupied. (Maybe why I have had trouble with close friendships, aside from romantic partners.) What's the Traditional connection regarding opposing Houses, if any--other than H6 and H12 being Cadent? MC in Sag., unoccupied H10.
 
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tsmall

Premium Member
Sect itself not only makes sense to me, it's straightforward and easy to determine. What isn't easy, is understanding is how it affects the Chart. Two Charts, say two hours apart, can go from being Night to being Day. This means a drastic reversal in team-native. The Planetary sects (provided the Moon is still in the same Sign) don't change.

So far, we are clear and in agreement.

For example, Saturn in Leo is in-sect by Sign in both cases, but team-native for Day-chart and not for Night-chart.

Ok, so pause here for a moment. What does being on "team native" really mean? It means that we need to suspend what we think we already know about astrology for a moment, and get back to basics. Emitting and receiving. Diurnal planets generally (and I do mean generally) emit, that is, cause things to happen, while nocturnal planets generally recieve things that happen. That is the starting point. Remember back to the elements/quadriplicites, and the natures of the planets themselves.

Saying Saturn in Leo is "in sect by sign" is what got us into this mess in the first place, and you are not alone in the confusion. Sect is easy, as you have pointed out. What isn't easy (I guess, it's easy for me, but I've run into this question so many times that I now understand it isn't easy for everyone) is "similitude." Because some idiot ancients conflated the two, we are now left to try to separate them again.

Sect: diurnal, nocturnal, determined by where the Sun is. Easy.

Similitude: If a planet is in a sign, quadrant, or degree that agrees with its nature or gender. There is also a delineative value for a planet being in the place ruled by a sectmate.

Diurnal or nocturnal, depending on the chart light (day or night) tells us what happens because of the native, that is, because of the choices the native makes. And yes, this means that those born in the night get to make choices too. It's why the calculation for the Lots of Spirit and Fortune are different for day/night births.


So, here's a specific question: When it's a Malefic like Saturn, is it better to have Saturn on team-native or off; and, in the case of one or the other, is it better to have Saturn in-sect by Sign or out-of-sect?

You know the actual answer is going to be "it depends on the chart," right? But in general, you want (anyone wants) Saturn to be the lies you tell, not those told to you. You want Saturn to represent the harm you cause, not the harm that comes to you...get it? But mostly, we want Saturn to be in sect, in a place that he is somehow dignified, and somewhere he can sucessfully bring about his significations while mitigating the damage that is his inherent nature.

Would you rather reject others, or have them reject you? Saturn, when dignified or in sect and bonnified, can bring hard lessons, but the lessons of Chronos stand true. Even the malefics have their uses.

For a Benefic like Jupiter, clearly better on team-native and in-sect by Sign. But does Jupiter STOP being beneficial when it's in a Night-chart (in which event, possibly better to have it out-of-sect by Sign)?

NO. Jupiter is Jupiter is Jupiter. No matter what team they are on, the benefics will always try to produce good things. Having said that, sometimes the "good things" they try to produce are actually going to be pretty bad things overall.

This is so much easier to explain to people who start with understanding the four humors and planetary nature, lol. I fear I've made more of a hash of it than we had to start with. :andy:
 

david starling

Well-known member
Would have thought Mars emits, but it's a Night-planet, so it receives--or does it!?
"Similitude" in place of "Sect by Sign."
I have terrible Saturn placement! Although is in Similitude in Leo, it's in detriment(?), out of Sect in a Night-chart, and opposing the House of its Joy. Might explain my mistrust of "authority".
 
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graay ghost

Well-known member
Similitude: If a planet is in a sign, quadrant, or degree that agrees with its nature or gender. There is also a delineative value for a planet being in the place ruled by a sectmate.

You keep mentioning degree. How do you tell if a degree fits? Terms/faces or something?
Save
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
You keep mentioning degree.

How do you tell if a degree fits? Terms/faces or something?

Save

ALL planetary dignities
including domicile, exaltation are relevant
:smile:

GregoryRozek-astrological-tables-01.png
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
What’s a pitted/elevated degree?
Where did it come from?
And why is it useful?
dr. farr studied astrology from the age of twelve for more than fifty years
and posted the following information on pitted/elevated degrees
:smile:
on the following thread http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=375725#post375725
According to ancient (up through Renaissance times) astrology,
the qualities of specific degrees of the ecliptic have an influence upon the expression of the qualities of planets posited in them:

-elevated degrees enhance the + qualities of planets and reduce - qualities
-pitted degrees mean that the planet's expression is inhibited, largely blocked, and tend to be neutralized, whether for good or for ill
-azimene degrees make a planet "crippled", so to speak, in its capacity for expression, and tend to bring out - planetary qualities
-bright degrees enhance the capacity for a planet's expression; they are also considered to enhance the + qualities of a planet and to reduce the - qualities of a planet
-dark degrees do the opposite: they inhibit a planet's capacity for expression, and tend to decrease the + qualities of a planet and to increase the - qualities of a planet
-mixed degrees give an "average" quality of capacity for expression to the planet in them; they favor a mixture of both + and - qualities of the planet

In Traditional Western astrology, all of the above degree-qualities are considered as accidental dignities or debilities
(elevated degrees and bright degrees were considered accidental dignities,
pitted, azimene and dark degress were considered accidental debilities/detriments)

These degree-concepts are unique to Western astrology
(they are no longer used in Modernist astrology)
-there is a somewhat similar concept in Vedic regarding a special kind of navamsa,
but nothing comparable to the above regarding specific degrees.


What about when a degree involves a couple of these degree qualities?
-azimene quality supercedes pitted/elevated and bright/dark
-pitted and elevated quality supercedes bright/dark
 

tsmall

Premium Member
Would have thought Mars emits, but it's a Night-planet, so it receives--or does it!?

This is why I qualified my above post with "generally." BTW, the line of thinking you are bringing up is why Ezra called Saturn a feminine planet, and Paulus called Mars feminine. See how easy it is to get these concepts mixed up because of language?

Mars does emit; he is excessively hot and dry. We want him to not emit, right? The nature of Mars is to sever and to separate. So we stick him with the night sect in order to try to mitigate his harm. Similarly with Saturn. The greater malefic is an excessively cold and dry planet whose nature is to reject and exclude. Which makes sense when we know that Saturn (in traditional astrology) sits in the last/farthest of the planetary spheres. Saturn applies to no one. (Applies in this case meaning applies in aspect.) If we place him in the dirunal sect then the heat of the Sun mitigates his coldness.

The malefics got assigned their sects in order to mitigate their damage.

"Similitude" in place of "Sect by Sign."

Not sure what you meant by that?


I have terrible Saturn placement! Although is in Similitude in Leo, it's in detriment(?), out of Sect in a Night-chart, and opposing the House of its Joy. Might explain my mistrust of "authority".

So you have Saturn in Leo, in masculine sign and quadrant, on the proper side of the horizon as the Sun (halb) and cadent? I mean, how much better do you want to corral your OSM?
 

tsmall

Premium Member
What’s a pitted/elevated degree? Where did it come from? And why is it useful?

Pitted/welled degrees are really useful in horary, though they apply to natal as well. If a planet in a horary question is in a welled degree, then delineatively it means it's in pit of its own making...like "you made your own bed" or "dug your own ditch."
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
No, that's exactly why it's annoying.

Save
some find these minor issues annoying
exactly why is a matter of individual peeves

so then
create your own perfect and unannoying table if you have the inclination :smile:
for your own personal use

otherwise there is the option
of using a FREE study aid provided
consider how potentially more annoying that table could have been
if you had to have paid for viewing it
 
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