Case of the worst known child schizophrenic

[Brea]

I'm not sure if she's already been discussed but Jani Schofield has been on Oprah, and countless television documentaries. This little girl is absolutely fascinating. I've watched dozens of interviews with her and read all about her behavior. It didnt take too much energy to dig up her birth time so I'm really interested in what can be said for this amazingly extraordinary child. Something that instantly popped out to me (besides all of her neptune oppositions) was the almost no/few traces of earth and water in her chart. SO MUCH stimulation!! and intellect. You can instantly see this little girl operating entirely out of her head. Anyways, I'm going to spend the next few days poking and prodding at it, but I immediately was interested in what this community has to offer about this little girl.

For an AMAZING read go here:http://www.janisjourney.org/index.ph...d=106&catid=44 < Fathers site about his daughter and her disorder.

Thank you SO much for your intellect and time!!

[Absynthe]

That is soo sad. But i can't believe how smart she is, that's incredible!!!

[retinoid]

I don't see anything pointing to an extreme disorder except that Neptune opposing her Moon says she is fanciful and Uranus opposing her (mercury) demonstrates that she is prone to sudden changes and is disorderly in some manner though the chart doesn't indicate that she is severely mentally ill.

[scorpittarian]

There are quite a few indicators.
Moon(lord of the 3rd) opp Neptune.
Moon conj Mars(lord of the 12th)
I wouldn't place much value on the Mercury/Uranus opp.
Moon's combust which is a debility as per traditional astrology.
Pluto trine Moon/Mars suggests extremity.
It's is a powerful angular malefic in this chart(retro, conjunct snode, peregrine, Scorpio intercepted in the 6th)

The violence comes from Sun/Moon/Mars conjunction.

There could be something going on with the midpoints.
I doubt the accuracy of her birth time. A social 4 year old isn't a Saturn in the 1st thing.

[dr. farr]

Yes, massive elemental imbalance (fire and air, no grounding; no easy flow of energies, which water element would have facilitated, water being entirely defiicient)
-Uranus and Neptune highest (most elevated) planets in chart
-Moon (emotional balance, brain chemistry) and Mars (Will), combusted by the Sun (absorbed by the Sun, the Sun-extreme Ego-having replaced what the Moon and Mars represent via combustion)
-South Node conjunct Pluto in the 7th house of interpersonal relationships
-mutables on the angles (might indicate instability IF considered with other chart factors)
-powerful grouping of planets in the 3rd house (communications, includes communications within the system itself), under fiery Leo, with the Sun therein, absorbing fiery Mars and watery Moon by combustion
-3rd house Sun, Mars, Moon, Jupiter, in opposition-by-sign to the chart's most elevated planets (in Aquarius), Uranus and Neptune (Uranian/Neptunian influences very predominant in this configuration)
(I agree with Scorpittarian about Mercury, and I would not consider Mercury much of a factor in this situation: the Sun/Moon/Mars, and the Uranus/Neptune situations, plus the sign-opposition of the Uranus/Neptune vs Sun/Moon/Mars, I suggest are much more important factors, as also is the SN/Pluto conjunction in the 7th house of interpersonal relationships)

Starwise, martial Aldebaran conjoins the ascending degree, very disruptive martial Dubhe conjoins the Sun, and Mars quality Ras Algethi is on the South Node: all these stars are
a) disruptive
and
b) of a Mars nature and quality

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Dr Farr, don't forget Al Hecka conjoined Saturn in the first.

[dr. farr]

Absolutely correct! Another tough stellar component!

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Double check me, Dr. Farr, but does this girl not have a proper Hyleg? It's not the Moon, not the Sun, not the Ascendant, not Mercury. I'm thinking it has to be Saturn since her prenatal lunation would have been in Aquarius and Saturn is in a hylegical position. The only problem is that Saturn isn't aspecting anyone which would leave her without an alchocodon which would make her hyleg frustrated and make her the type 3 chart where she doesn't live much longer than 12.

Her temperament is choleric, which describes her temperament, her energy, and her anger problems. She's still a child, so she's a natural disposition towards sanguine to sort of even her out, but as she gets older she'll fall into her choler more easily which could lead to more problems as she starts to interact with the outside world more independently.

I think a lot of her illness has to do with that Saturn and her debilitated Moon. Her rational mind is very strong as attested to by her Mercury, but her irrational mind is not doing well. To be fair, I wouldn't have seen this chart and guessed it was someone with a mental illness. Considering the quality of the Soul, it would come out as pretty normal, only mentioning that her fantasies can get a bit out of hand sometimes (debilitated Moon) and she may have some problems with paranoia (Saturn on Al Hecka in the first).

[jbschirtzinger]

I didn't read all the information about her as I wanted to get my own impressions sans background. It is evident to me that this girl is learning two difficult things at once--1) how to structure her mind. She has a whole load of gemini energy to grow in gemini and away from Sagittarius. Secondly, she is learning how to have a sense of self away from groups.

There is an interesting chiron in the eighth having to do with responsibility or father in the sexual/transformation house. For some reason, I want to say this is sexual abuse from a father. Maybe it didn't go so far as abuse, but some sort of fatherly wandering in a semi-sexual way that should not have happened. Maybe a grandfather. That is, to be sure, a dark interpretation of the indicator, but that's where I am taken although I hope it is something more like "problems with responsibility" of having a child as a father as opposed to sex.

Bascially, this girl is learning how to see both sides of an issue as opposed to taking only one position, and have a sense of self in order to learn something about responsibility where boundaries are concerned.

[miquar]

Poor girl! and her family too. I hope she's happier now and continues to improve.

Having read through the website - thanks for the op Brea with the chart and the link and everything - something that really jumped out at me was the way she would fly into a rage if anyone used her real name. So of course I'm thinking about Mars closely conjunct Sun in Leo, with the Moon in Leo more widely conjunct the two. It sounds as though she couldn't bare to be reminded of who she was (I'm talking in the past tense because I don't know how things are for her now). And some of her 'personalities' were very aggressive towards her. With the stellium on the IC, I guess she tried to bury her own identity. It was somehow dangerous to be herself.

Sun and Mars are also semisquare the 5th house Venus.

The trines to the 7th house Pluto could reflect that she projected her Pluto energy onto her other identities, and this energy also found easy expression through the Mars stellium, adding to the sense of threat from these 'characters.' The strongly aspected Pluto, along with the close Moon Neptune opposition perhaps say something about her questions related to possible suicide.

I imagine the 3rd house emphasis and the Gemini Ascendant with Mercury in Virgo are also relevant - compartmentalising herself in order to deal with her reality. Mercury is very weakly aspected, and maybe this is also relevant. The closest aspect is the trine to Chiron with both planets in water houses. Also with regard to the 3rd house, she seems to have a lot of issues around her brother, who she clearly loves very deeply. If she hadn't been so overwhelmed by the schizophrenia, it may have been more obvious that she was projecting a great deal of stuff onto him and how that dynamic could have given more clues as to how she could be helped.

I looked at a 45 degree midpoint sort for this chart. The main thing that came from that was that Uranus is exactly semisquare the Asc/MC midpoint. It's interesting how she loved to be around crowds, with Uranus and Neptune in Aquarius either side of the MC and opposing the personal planets that she seemed to struggle with so much.

Anyway, I don't have any experience with this kind of problem, so I'm very much open to these ideas being challenged or expanded upon.

[dr. farr]

Regarding the 3rd house, in the researches of Charles Carter and his associates (1940s-60's), Carter came to regard the 3rd house as a leading-if not in fact THE leading-house indicative of potentially significant mental imabalance: note that in whole sign (indeed, in Placidus as well), the reference chart 3rd house posits 4 planets, which are in sign-opposition to Uranus and Neptune, with Neptune and Moon in partile opposition by degree; and note all that Fire in the 3rd: Leo, the Sun, Mars-note the Moon is also waning (in Vedic a waning Moon is regarded as a "malefic"), and all there in that 3rd house...

[miquar]

Is there a fixed star at one of these points?

[Blackempress]

Very interesting discussion. Thank you for the links & the thread Brea.

Ofcourse the Neptune opposition is the most apparent part & I won't beat around the bush as a better analysis has already been posted.
I just thought that with all the challenges presented to her identity through the stellium perhaps turning to her trines was a safer way out. Venus Trine Neptune especially caught my attention but even there her emotional needs were unmet Venus sq Saturn.

Even her Sun-Moon Trines to Pluto probably made her feel consistency 'unsafe' & 'watched over' so she wanted another town to escape to.

Scorpio in 6th could give a sensitive nervous system which would continue the obsessive cycle & lead to frustration/aggression.

Just my 2 cents, if someone can make sense of it.

[dr. farr]

Originally Posted by miquar

Is there a fixed star at one of these points?

Yes there are: in the Gemini sector there are the Hyades, and the orb of Aldebaran; in the Sagittarius sector, Marfik, Han and Antares are in orb...

[miquar]

Originally Posted by dr. farr

Yes there are: in the Gemini sector there are the Hyades, and the orb of Aldebaran; in the Sagittarius sector, Marfik, Han and Antares are in orb...

Thanks. Do any of them relate to the associations that were made with these degrees in the above post?

I have a friend called Han. I'd be interested to know briefly what this star means.

[retinoid]

The question is would anyone here say that this girl had schizophrenia or severe mental illness without knowing that she had mental illness. My guess is no. Which means that nothing in the chart shows severe mental illness. It does show that she can be disconnected from reality and can act out in erratic ways though which I would have said even if I knew she didn't have schizophrenia. I think the 4th house ruler is most important in determining stability of mind.

So that is mercury and is in virgo so she probably has a strong mind, but is opposed to uranus causing erratic thoughts and behaviors. Her 6th house, health, is Mars and is combust so I guess she could have health 'issues' dealing with intellect, learning, memories (third house).

Though what is SCHIZOPHRENIA really? As someone who has had periods of severe mental strain (paranoia, anxiety, depression) I am by no means minimizing mental illness and how uncontrollable it is, but what causes it? I know that I caused my mental problems for the most part. Modern medicine gives schizophrenics pills that literally dull the mind by blocking a host of receptors interfering in motivation, dreams, hopes, movement...is this what is needed to treat schizophrenia? Indeed, Schizophrenia could be caused by different factors for different people (like not everyone has a dysfunctional dopamine system and not everyone who is Schizophrenic needs meds to get better or be treated).

[dr. farr]

Astro-medical delineation is not conventional medicine, and the diagnosis of specific conventionally understood (and conventionally labelled) PATHOLOGY is not, and never has been, what medical astrology is about: I have explained the concepts involved in medical astrology in other threads, but basically an astrological analysis shows energetic trends and subtle energetic affinities (to the underlying energy structures of organs and tissues), and where excesses and/or deficiencies, ie, imbalances, of such energies, are in the subtle energy field of the subject: from such an analysis, potential (even likely) trends and susceptibilities can be determined: these trends of imbalance, these susceptibilities, then, can suggest potential conditions of health which often do "fit in" to various medical diagnostic categories-but I say again, astro-medical anaylsis does not seek, or claim, or pretend, to be equivalent to conventional medical diagnostics; astro-medical analysis is actually much closer to the alternative systems of analysis (eg, ayurveda, unani-tibb, homeopathy, classical chinese medicine) in what it seeks to determine.

[jbschirtzinger]

[QUOTE=retinoid;390756]The question is would anyone here say that this girl had schizophrenia or severe mental illness without knowing that she had mental illness. My guess is no. Which means that nothing in the chart shows severe mental illness. /QUOTE]

I'd have gotten very close to saying this. The chart shows a lot of mental issues and difficulty forging an ego. It wouldn't take much to conclude that mental illness isn't far behind.

[dr. farr]

Yes, I too would have believed there were significant mental/emotional imbalances likely indicated in this chart if I had not known the mnedical diagnosis prior to delineating the chart.

[♥♥♥]

energyremoved

[dr. farr]

I'll have to take a look at her karma varga (60th harmonic) chart, perhaps for some deeper insight into the karmic/spiritual influences behind her situation.

[gen6k]

http://s15.postimage.org/rc3agtau1/s...renic_girl.jpg

she has a "mystic rectangle". that neptune gets channeled in to the stellium then it goes all over the place. so its a very potent version.

http://clobo70.blogspot.com/2009/05/...rectangle.html