Friends, Lovers, or Nothing?

Hi guys. I'm posting this chart because I found it to be rather interesting. I normally try to 1. not ask too many questions, and 2. just try to interpret myself and wait the situation out to see if I'm right when I do ask. But this one really grabbed me.

It is about an ex whom I can't seem to purge from my life, or my heart. We talk occasionally because we are in the same profession. Last time we spoke (last week), he mentioned he was seeing someone. Of course, that was like a knife to my heart and I went off on him. We wound up having a good conversation that I feel will bring me closure, which has eluded me. He said he hadn't tried to get personal with me again because he knew he blew it big time when he hurt me before.

The question was: Will we be friends, lovers, or nothing after this (thank you John Mayer ).

I found it VERY interesting that the Moon had JUST entered a new sign. It really felt like our conversation was a turning point. But a turning point for what?

My significator, the Moon, is applying a mutual conjunction with his (Saturn). But first, it opposes Venus. Venus rules his 5th house, and I'm pretty sure that is the person he is seeing. That blocks the Moon from going any further right? Or does it mean that there is an impending breakup for them? She is in detriment in his turned 4th house, so I don't think he likes Venus all that much.

BUT, the conjunction between us happens in my 4th house as well. I think this shows that I am DONE with the situation, and I am. I just want closure. Could this mean I will get it now?

I see the applying trine with Mercury and the Sun. Mercury rules my 12th (positive closure?) and the Sun rules my 3rd. Will more communication happen between us? This is the only aspect of the chart that is really unclear to me.

Overall, I think the answer is leaning towards we are headed for nothing after this. Which is okay. I can't move on with the next phase of my life until I close the book on this one.

But it definitely looks like there is some upcoming action according to the chart, so wanted to post it.

Hi,

I like this chart a lot.

I always find myself in a bit of a quandary when interpreting relationship charts. Finding the querent is never a problem, but should I use the 7th or the 5th house for the lover? Some say use 7th only if querent and quesited have been co-habitating or married, and use 5th house for lovers and romances.

In the case of this chart, I'm going to use the ruler of the 5th for the quesited and I will state my reasons why later.

First of all, Cancer rises, giving us some insight into the emotional attachment and possible residue that this relationship has fostered. But the Moon has a new attitude, and has just entered Libra! That's strange, because Libra is totally other centered and seeks to complete itself through relationship, preferably romantic (being the domicile of Venus, goddess of love). But is this an indicator that you two will be lovers again? I think not, because, not only has the Moon entered a new sign recently, so has Venus, into her detriment of Aries. Aries is, of course, ruled by Mars, god of war, so Venus isn't feeling particularly romantic although she might be quite sexually aggressive. Venus rules the 11th house of friends, and the Moon is applying to her by opposition. Perfection by opposition tends to indicate, "I got it and wish I hadn't", and can be touch and go. Based on this I would say, friends AND nothing.

My reasoning for this judgement lies in the condition of the ruler of the 5th house, Mars, your ex-lover. Mars is retrograde in Virgo, the sign previously occupied by the Moon until you got your closure and the Moon moved to Libra. There is no relationship between Virgo and Libra, and the Moon and Mars are mutually separating (not technically, because there is no aspect). Additionally, Virgo is the fall of Venus. Remember her? Ruler of the house of friends, and the Moon's next application? From the chart, it looks like you might be open to the friendship thing, but him, not so much.

But I think that's OK for two reasons. One, it looks like previous acrimony and resentment will melt away and a true friendliness and good feeling can now rule the day, and Two, and I'm going out on a limb here, you just might be meeting someone else. The last aspect made by the Moon is to Saturn, ruler of the 7th. Do you like older men? Both planets are in Libra, and while Venus isn't in Pisces anymore, which would get me really excited if I saw this, there is a possibility of some new attachment. The indicators that corroborate this for me are the Part of Fortune in Aquarius, another Saturn sign, with the Sun, ruler of the 7th from the POF, and Mercury, ruler of the 5th from the POF. If I'm correct and this comes to pass, it should be a very intellectually stimulating relationship indeed. The Moon will make her conjunction to Saturn in about 28 degrees, so let me know if you meet anyone in a month.

Of course, I could be completely full of sh*t, but I have laid out my reasoning pretty clearly. After all, the weakest link in astrology is the astrologer!

(Following is not in accordance with standard horary practice and uses whole sign house format)

You and he are not finished yet, in my opinion (can't say what the relationship might be like, but I am certain it is not all done)
-querent = Cancer = Moon
-quesited = Capricorn = Saturn
-both are in Libra (a good sign for Saturn, and a mixed sign for the Moon {because the Via Combusta is there)
-however, Moon flows to Saturn and Saturn flows back by rx to Moon
...not done yet!

From a symbolical point of view (conversion of astro-data to Tarot Major Arcana symbols), taking the ascending degree, the Moon and Saturn, we get 489deg47min which (subtracting the circle of the zodiac) = 129deg47min, with the symbolic essence point therefore @ 9Leo47, which = 1+2+9+4+7 =23 which = 5; so the symbol characterizing the answer to this question is the 5th Tarot Major Arcana, the Hierophant (upright because the symbolic essence point is in the + polarity half of a + polarity sign); among meanings connected with the Hierophant (upright) are good sound advice, constructive counsel, search for insight, taking the moral high ground, marriages, partnerships...

Hi Misskitty!
I see you are at NOLA, I wish I was there too! I would love to see Mardi Gras.

If Venus is indeed the other woman, she is intercepted, so should not be that powerful, but then she has accidental dignities (in 10th house and occidental) so she has some strength.
Venus antiscion falls on fourth house cusp. I know we normally don't use antiscia on house cusps. I just thought this may show Venus has an impact on 4th house- end of matters- also taking into account Moon opposing Venus actually prohibiting Moon-Saturn Conjunction.
Also, I've used the Horary Helper for your chart and saw that Ascendant in 10 Cancer-you is in a Fateful Degree (same degree with Mean Node which is 10 Saggitarius) which usually mean's the outcome is fated or out of your hands.

Hope I didn't confuse you, just wanted to share my thoughts on your chart! Please also note I am not an astrologer, just trying very hard to learn and be accurate.

Thank you all so much for responding. I do believe this is one of the most interesting charts I've ever drawn up and I appreciate the feedback. I LOVE that I have a mix of non-traditional and traditional interpretations here.

agarth said:

My reasoning for this judgement lies in the condition of the ruler of the 5th house, Mars, your ex-lover. Mars is retrograde in Virgo, the sign previously occupied by the Moon until you got your closure and the Moon moved to Libra. There is no relationship between Virgo and Libra, and the Moon and Mars are mutually separating (not technically, because there is no aspect). Additionally, Virgo is the fall of Venus. Remember her? Ruler of the house of friends, and the Moon's next application? From the chart, it looks like you might be open to the friendship thing, but him, not so much.

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Welcome agarth! So glad to have a new member who is obviously well-versed in horary! I have not seen the approach you take here before, and I like your reasoning for it. I was wondering about Mars as well. I thought maybe it represented my getting angry with him, but your reasoning makes sense as well. It is interesting that you've picked Saturn to be a new partner, and yes, I do prefer men who are a bit older than me. But does the opposition with Venus restrict the Moon from perfecting with Saturn?

Dr. Farr: You and he are not finished yet, in my opinion (can't say what the relationship might be like, but I am certain it is not all done)

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Dr. Farr- as always I so appreciate having your perspective! I had not thought about using the Major Arcana symbol in a while and I'm glad you brought that up. The chart does indeed seem to be saying that I haven't heard the last of him-- IF Venus is not considered a block to that. I had never thought before that Venus could actually block something because she is the Greater Benefic, but it represents something for sure. The Moon is applying the opposition to Venus, so that would ordinarily tell me that the MOON is causing the blockage or the issue, not Venus. If Venus were the one applying then I could see it getting in the way, but the Moon is angular and cardinal, and seems to roll right over Venus to move towards Saturn. Any thoughts about that?

Thanks for your insight as well Gemini Rising! I actually had to look up antiscion. Also I addressed Venus in my comments to dr. farr. Would love to hear your thoughts. Thank you for pointing out that the ASC is in a fateful degree. You are right, there is nothing I can do and I have no power over the situation. He knows how I feel, and the ball is in his court. OH- and Mardi Gras time is a wonderful time to be in New Orleans as long as one stays away from Bourbon Street. lol

Overall, I hope I get the final closure I need here. The relationship was emotionally taxing and painful, and from the looks of the chart it wouldn't improve even if Venus wasn't in the way. I kinda hope agarth is right, and there is someone new for me.

I will definitely update if anything happens. I can't wait to see how this chart pans out in 'real life.'

p.s. I am still wondering what the trines with Sun and Mercury will bring. I will let you guys know if anything occurs with that.

Hi Misskitty.

I am sorry it took me so long to reply.

Any updates?

I do believe Venus is a block, the thing is I am not sure this is the other woman! I know what you mean by saying Moon applies to Venus and not the other way round, so that it is actually the Moon causing the blockage. But still I think it's prohibition. I sort of see it this way: imagine you are walking down a road to meet this man who is at the end of the road. Then you see a huge wall standing in front of you that stands in your way and you can't get through. Let's hope I'm wrong.
Also wondering abt Sun and Mercury trines with Saturn. Perhaps this could help out?

Thank you Gemini Rising! Not really anything new to report yet. He has been sending me job ads because he knows I am looking for a new job (we are in the same field). But no further discussion on what was said before.

So you think even with the block of Venus that the Moon can still get to Mercury and the Sun? That sounds very plausible to me, and obviously is what has happened since there has been no further communication on the subject of our past (just the job-related stuff).

I hope the trines do help out, as you said. Since the Moon is angular and cardinal, I am thinking the timing is in days and that would put any activity from that Moon/Sun/Mercury trine around the beginning of March. I will definitely update if anything happens.

His significator is in a pitted degree and I think this indicates delay and blockage of action, for a period of time; I think the earliest would be the beginning of March, for any noticebale activity to even begin to occur.

Thanks dr. farr. It seems this man is in a perpetual state of being "pitted," so I am not surprised! I will let you know when/if anything happens. The Moon is fairly strong here, so I would be really surprised if nothing happened after a period of delay. But I've been wrong before...

misskitty said:

My significator, the Moon, is applying a mutual conjunction with his (Saturn). But first, it opposes Venus. Venus rules his 5th house, and I'm pretty sure that is the person he is seeing. That blocks the Moon from going any further right? Or does it mean that there is an impending breakup for them? She is in detriment in his turned 4th house, so I don't think he likes Venus all that much.

Personally, I think you are correct about the initial interpretation; Venus blocks the Moon from going any further.


Overall, I think the answer is leaning towards we are headed for nothing after this. Which is okay. I can't move on with the next phase of my life until I close the book on this one.

Agreed.

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I think, as you are the Moon, that there is continuing contact. That is the nature of the Moon; to continue and perpetuate contact. However, she has to go through a lot, in this chart, before she can even get to Saturn. This to, me, would signal interference and a sign to perhaps move forward in the new phase of your life.

Also, if you choose to move forward in this matter, the Moon opposes Venus. Not great. But, if you do not move forward in the relationship, like the last aspect the Moon had where you were conjoined Mars, this might bring more pleasure and power to you even though, as you said, your heart aches. The Moon, unfortuantely, is usually hurt by Mars in some way, though, in this case, it is the lesser of two evils.

Thank you Anachiel. Oddly, I've felt this strange sense of acceptance since the conversation that is only building as time goes on. I think it is very significant that the activity is happening from the 4th house because that is what this has evolved into being about for me, an ending. He used me as a plaything, but it has taken me so long to accept that as cold fact until now!

About Mars... I was wondering if maybe that is the guy I'm seeing now. That relationship isn't going very well either, as you correctly pointed out. VERY good eye!

misskitty said:

About Mars... I was wondering if maybe that is the guy I'm seeing now.

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I'm glad to hear things are better.

Not sure I would take the horary out of the scope of the original question. It is possible it could signify someone else but, I'd hesitate to comment on that because this horary is truly about the other person. That's just my take on it as an outsider on the topic.

On the other hand, the planets can have a plurality of roles that affect or that are involved in the matter, too.

continued best wishes