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  #126  
Unread 02-19-2019, 06:49 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

I want to add, I got the feeling you thought I had gotten an IQ test done and scored low or something, love-thinking. I was joking at the beginning of the thread when I said I was a point above legally retarded. I've never had an IQ test done and I have no idea what I'd score, but I also don't care. I just truly think IQ tests are meaningless. Using them to measure intelligence isn't gonna glean much. The harsh truth is that someone who scores high might otherwise be an average human being with no real talents,
but they have a fancy title

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  #127  
Unread 02-19-2019, 06:55 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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I read the charts of people and I've seen it where Mercury/Moon aspects do well for the person's thinking. Sorry it's not peer reviewed and published in some ditzy library somewhere. I've also read so much astrological literature that even if I began the digging process, it would take me a while to find it and I'm not that motivated.

That's good for your Mercury.

Once you can see how the aspects manifest in a living, breathing way, you won't be quick to slap characteristics on a person because of an aspect. I've never stalked anyone in my life - I'm too much of an individualist for that. Too much Sagittarius and Aquarius.

My chart is full of fire and Mars so what you see as "ego battle" I merely see as a disagreement. I like disagreement and I like to test and challenge people. A disagreement doesn't automatically connote egotism and trouble for the sake of it in my mind, but then I'm very fire bound.

We're also the same age. So no need to respect the elderly - they are all watching us quietly.

Well sun is within 14 degrees to my mars. [deleted personal attack - Moderator]


There's no peer scholar articles written on astrology aside from some studies done by carl jung and gaquelen(even then, that's highly simplistic studies). You can't measure astrology with ANOVA testing, nor can you isolate planets to determine any sort of casualty.

But if you're going to be an astrologer, old sources from those with a logical framework, and that are highly esteemed, and with some data collection of charts seem to do the trick.

Last edited by wilsontc; 02-19-2019 at 01:16 PM.
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  #128  
Unread 02-19-2019, 06:56 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

In fact I just remembered something - a long time ago there was a member by the name of Frank who did a study on intelligent people in some special group - it could be Mensa or something other. One of the strongest placements he found in his sample was... Mercury in Pisces. Followed by Aquarius Moon. You could trawl the forum and find him discussing it but an implication I get is that you want the rational and the irrational parts of your mind to be working in tandem - you want your imagination and your rationality and logic to be going in the same direction. That is, if you care about being "smart".
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  #129  
Unread 02-19-2019, 06:57 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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I want to add, I got the feeling you thought I had gotten an IQ test done and scored low or something, love-thinking. I was joking at the beginning of the thread when I said I was a point above legally retarded. I've never had an IQ test done and I have no idea what I'd score, but I also don't care. I just truly think IQ tests are meaningless. Using them to measure intelligence isn't gonna glean much. The harsh truth is that someone who scores high might otherwise be an average human being with no real talents,
but they have a fancy title
Well that's good to know that you were joking. It does do quite a lot when it comes to spotting people that will make innovation in the scientific world. And I suppose that's their talent?

People can be talented while scoring low on an IQ test. There's variation when it comes to these things but there is a purpose to an IQ test and for anyone to claim otherwise is not considering factors.
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  #130  
Unread 02-19-2019, 06:58 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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In fact I just remembered something - a long time ago there was a member by the name of Frank who did a study on intelligent people in some special group - it could be Mensa or something other. One of the strongest placements he found in his sample was... Mercury in Pisces. Followed by Aquarius Moon. You could trawl the forum and find him discussing it but an implication I get is that you want the rational and the irrational parts of your mind to be working in tandem - you want your imagination and your rationality and logic to be going in the same direction. That is, if you care about being "smart".
I would love to see that study. Probably would make me feel less insecure about my mercury conjunct neptune. I'll try and find it.
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  #131  
Unread 02-19-2019, 07:01 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Well that's good to know that you were joking. It does do quite a lot when it comes to spotting people that will make innovation in the scientific world. And I suppose that's their talent?

People can be talented while scoring low on an IQ test. There's variation when it comes to these things but there is a purpose to an IQ test and for anyone to claim otherwise is not considering factors.
Can you give examples of people who have made innovations in the scientific world that were identified by IQ test?


And not considering what factors?
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  #132  
Unread 02-19-2019, 07:03 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Well that's good to know that you were joking. It does do quite a lot when it comes to spotting people that will make innovation in the scientific world. And I suppose that's their talent?

People can be talented while scoring low on an IQ test. There's variation when it comes to these things but there is a purpose to an IQ test and for anyone to claim otherwise is not considering factors.
Also...scientific innovations. Even if they can identify people who will make scientific innovations, why should that be the definition of intelligence? What would Beethoven or Picasso have scored on IQ tests I wonder?
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  #133  
Unread 02-19-2019, 07:05 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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In fact I just remembered something - a long time ago there was a member by the name of Frank who did a study on intelligent people in some special group - it could be Mensa or something other. One of the strongest placements he found in his sample was... Mercury in Pisces. Followed by Aquarius Moon. You could trawl the forum and find him discussing it but an implication I get is that you want the rational and the irrational parts of your mind to be working in tandem - you want your imagination and your rationality and logic to be going in the same direction. That is, if you care about being "smart".
Have a link or nah?

I can't find it.

I can see that make sense. But imagination and rationality, shouldn't there be a mutable phlagmetic planet with a structured planet then?
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  #134  
Unread 02-19-2019, 07:10 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Have a link or nah?

I can't find it.

I can see that make sense. But imagination and rationality, shouldn't there be a mutable phlagmetic planet with a structured planet then?
He might've posted it in a thread instead of creating his own OP
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  #135  
Unread 02-19-2019, 07:13 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

Here it is

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...1&postcount=54

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...&postcount=110
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  #136  
Unread 02-19-2019, 07:21 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Can you give examples of people who have made innovations in the scientific world that were identified by IQ test?


And not considering what factors?
Nikola tesla was said to have a higher iQ than 180, Einstein was said to have more than 160, Stephen Hawking had a higher IQ than average.

And This
https://www.jstor.org/stable/2494404...o_tab_contents

peer scholar article that says "While the group as a whole is characterized by very high average intelligence"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willia...ife_(1909–1915)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...n_2000–present

Go down and look at list of child prodigies and see their ability to do certain things before the expected age.

I'll tell you what IQ is. You are able to absorb information and find connections involving mundane things that to the normal mind would appear boring. That's why some people with higher IQ see the world differently, or enjoy subjects like physics, chemistry. Because not only can they absorb the little nitty gritty parts that make the whole, but they have fun forming the patterns whereas the rest of us are involved in relationships and friendships and worldly things like success and material things.

Jordan Peterson, I doubt you'll like him and I disagree with him on many things but the man is a good psychologist and of course he's trained. His video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui52h2_gbos



What I mean about factors is, find the connection. Not all high IQed people are inventors. But almost all inventors and nobel prize winners have higher than average IQ.
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  #137  
Unread 02-19-2019, 07:21 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

Notice that Frank said "so far". Not sure how far gone he is all these years after the fact.

But this was the crux of the issue for me - an individual made a claim about a placement and he was proven wrong by way of examples of real people and not by sophistry. And here is someone who actually has done some level of research into the phenomena and have found the exact opposite pattern hold - There seem to be a lot of Mensa level people who have a wretched water mercury and the worst one at that. And there is no pesky issue of eminence clouding the results.
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  #138  
Unread 02-19-2019, 07:24 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Originally Posted by Lykanized View Post
Also...scientific innovations. Even if they can identify people who will make scientific innovations, why should that be the definition of intelligence? What would Beethoven or Picasso have scored on IQ tests I wonder?
I shouldn't define it as intelligence. They apparently did. There are people with special talents or special intelligence but the terminology used in our society is kind of adding a label in front of "intelligence" if it's not referred to IQ. But maybe there needs to be a change in terms of terminology?
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  #139  
Unread 02-19-2019, 07:42 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Originally Posted by love-thinking View Post
Nikola tesla was said to have a higher iQ than 180, Einstein was said to have more than 160, Stephen Hawking had a higher IQ than average.

And This
https://www.jstor.org/stable/2494404...o_tab_contents

peer scholar article that says "While the group as a whole is characterized by very high average intelligence"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willia...909–1915)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...–present

Go down and look at list of child prodigies and see their ability to do certain things before the expected age.

I'll tell you what IQ is. You are able to absorb information and find connections involving mundane things that to the normal mind would appear boring. That's why some people with higher IQ see the world differently, or enjoy subjects like physics, chemistry. Because not only can they absorb the little nitty gritty parts that make the whole, but they have fun forming the patterns whereas the rest of us are involved in relationships and friendships and worldly things like success and material things.

Jordan Peterson, I doubt you'll like him and I disagree with him on many things but the man is a good psychologist and of course he's trained. His video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui52h2_gbos



What I mean about factors is, find the connection. Not all high IQed people are inventors. But almost all inventors and nobel prize winners have higher than average IQ.
No, what I asked you for was examples of IQ serving a purpose, like you said, of predicting who would come up with scientific innovations

These individuals would be hailed as geniuses even if they didn't take IQ tests just like geniuses throughout history. I'm also not sure Tesla or Einstein ever took IQ tests. THose are just estimates

And what do child prodigies have to do with this? Not relevant to the conversation or to my questions because there's no listing of their IQs


The only purpose IQ serves is to give people access to a special club. People who are gonna innovate will innovate
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  #140  
Unread 02-19-2019, 07:43 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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So you totally missed when evolving was cowing down people who disagreed with him? And doing nothing to back up his statements apart from digging his heals into the ground?

He also said no exceptions. Is the 5% thing your invention?
Yes I actually did. My eyes caught your mercury sextile saturn thing.

Then after when I went back, I'm like **** this man is fatal. Aries asc man is reckless to no tomorrow.

It was my my invention because it seemed intuitive. I mean mercury was always debilitated in pisces; that was agreed upon by trained astrologers back in the day no? But I also knew that a planet in a sign probably didn't mean much? Especially mercury as mercury is not particularly sensitive to your chart alone. Another thing I knew was that the more time-sensitive an aspect or planet is the more it is specific to you like asc and moon, and conjunctions.

But I did know that certain aspects such as mercury with saturn, and uranus and third house emphasis did produce intelligent people because I think I tried to see the chart of ten to fifteen people. And whenever I hear of someone with a high IQ, I tend to check their chart as I do with everything else. I also knew mercury in aries did in three charts. But it seemed counter intuitive as I knew mercury and mars were not friends and so that just seemed like a third variable issue.

I hope my thought process makes sense.

But yeah stop being mean to me. You're an oompa loompa.
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  #141  
Unread 02-19-2019, 07:47 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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No, what I asked you for was examples of IQ serving a purpose, like you said, of predicting who would come up with scientific innovations

These individuals would be hailed as geniuses even if they didn't take IQ tests just like geniuses throughout history

And what do child prodigies have to do with this? Not relevant to the conversation or to my questions because there's no listing of their IQs


The only purpose IQ serves is to give people access to a special club. People who are gonna innovate will innovate
Many of the child prodigies have done things that kids in their age group; also sometimes older folk couldn't do. Some of them entered higher levels of education at an earlier age and more.

And all nobel prize winners at least have 1+ SD higher than the average IQ level.


So yes it is useful in predicting whether or not someone is CAPABLE of excelling in some fields and become experts and innovators; not exactly whether they get lazy late in life and fade out.

Show me an inventor with an IQ of 105. You will not be able to find any even though 105 is five points higher than the average.

And yes child prodigies is relevent because their iq predicts whether they skip grades or not.
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  #142  
Unread 02-19-2019, 07:50 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

I understand your thought process. However -

How would you be able to measure 5% of difference between those different elements of Mercury? How would you be able to isolate the various other considerations that are having an effect on Mercury? Why 5% anyway? Why not 12%? Why not 14.57% Why does it have to be a real number?

And the time sensitivity thing is one of the reasons why that elemental "rule" looked iffy. And why the ascendant and moon were also looked at for mental/character delineation all these years.

Also, I think due to the immense amount of syncretism during astrology's development that what we get is a mishmash of different traditions surviving to this day - some of which are totally at odds with one another. I don't personally know how relevant or useful planetary friendships are to delineation when it actually matters.
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  #143  
Unread 02-19-2019, 07:51 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Many of the child prodigies have done things that kids in their age group; also sometimes older folk couldn't do. Some of them entered higher levels of education at an earlier age and more.
I know what a prodigy is, I'm saying it's not relevant to the conversation

Quote:
And all nobel prize winners at least have 1+ SD higher than the average IQ level.
The Nobel prize is a corrupt system. You can buy yourself one if you have enough money

Quote:
So yes it is useful in predicting whether or not someone is CAPABLE of excelling in some fields and become experts and innovators; not exactly whether they get lazy late in life and fade out.
You still honestly haven't proven that
Quote:

Show me an inventor with an IQ of 105. You will not be able to find any even though 105 is five points higher than the average.
Honestly I can't, but I also couldn't find you one with a 110 IQ or a 160 IQ or whatever



Quote:
And yes child prodigies is relevent because their iq predicts whether they skip grades or not.
Still not relevant to the conversation
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  #144  
Unread 02-19-2019, 07:51 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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No, what I asked you for was examples of IQ serving a purpose, like you said, of predicting who would come up with scientific innovations

These individuals would be hailed as geniuses even if they didn't take IQ tests just like geniuses throughout history. I'm also not sure Tesla or Einstein ever took IQ tests. THose are just estimates

And what do child prodigies have to do with this? Not relevant to the conversation or to my questions because there's no listing of their IQs


The only purpose IQ serves is to give people access to a special club. People who are gonna innovate will innovate
Secondly they are estimates for a reason. G which is a concept contributing to IQ, tests your mathematical, and linguistic/verbal abilities and some other things. But basically everything to do with education.
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  #145  
Unread 02-19-2019, 07:52 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Secondly they are estimates for a reason. G which is a concept contributing to IQ, tests your mathematical, and linguistic/verbal abilities and some other things. But basically everything to do with education.
My point is, can you say with certainty what these individuals would've scored on a modern IQ test?
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  #146  
Unread 02-19-2019, 08:03 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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My point is, can you say with certainty what these individuals would've scored on a modern IQ test?
[QUOTE=Lykanized;952350]I know what a prodigy is, I'm saying it's not relevant to the conversation


The Nobel prize is a corrupt system. You can buy yourself one if you have enough money


You still honestly haven't proven that

Honestly I can't, but I also couldn't find you one with a 110 IQ or a 160 IQ or whatever

How is it not relevent or meaningful if it predicts whether or not people skip grades? If you child was found to have an iq of 180 tomorrow and can do things that a ninth grader can in grade two, would you not take the necessary steps in ensuring that he/she is in an environment that fosters her intellectual capabilities? In this way IQ is relevent


IQ is a tool used by scientiests. That's what makes it relevant. I'm not going to sit here and argue with an opinion of a common man. It has been proven to exist and predict things. It's been referred to in peer scholar articles, and it's a tool used by psychologists and school systems alike to test whether a child is suited in their environment.

I'm sick of this whole everything must be fair and equal and taboo truths must not be brought forward mentality.

Conspiracy theorist gave me a study, I saw it and I admitted my mistake and explained my rationale behind my thought process. A little objectivity and pragmatism is good for the soul as well.

If IQ wasn't real, it wouldn't again and again predict educational abilities, and referred to again and again in psychology textbooks and peer scholar articles.

If IQ wasn't real, then a kid with an 165 IQ wouldn't skip grades and forever would be drawing in class.


If IQs wasn't real, innovators wouldn't be said or have a high one.

And nobel prize winners, maybe one or two cases may signify corruption but you do realize you need to be innovative and facilitate a new scientific finding/discovery/study in order to win one right?

Also regarding your question on whether you could guess exactly what their iq would be.



You can't tell with certainty, but you can tell that they would in fact would have scored within that many SD above the average.
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  #147  
Unread 02-19-2019, 08:32 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

[QUOTE=love-thinking;952355]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lykanized View Post
I know what a prodigy is, I'm saying it's not relevant to the conversation


The Nobel prize is a corrupt system. You can buy yourself one if you have enough money


You still honestly haven't proven that

Honestly I can't, but I also couldn't find you one with a 110 IQ or a 160 IQ or whatever

How is it not relevent or meaningful if it predicts whether or not people skip grades? If you child was found to have an iq of 180 tomorrow and can do things that a ninth grader can in grade two, would you not take the necessary steps in ensuring that he/she is in an environment that fosters her intellectual capabilities? In this way IQ is relevent


IQ is a tool used by scientiests. That's what makes it relevant. I'm not going to sit here and argue with an opinion of a common man. It has been proven to exist and predict things. It's been referred to in peer scholar articles, and it's a tool used by psychologists and school systems alike to test whether a child is suited in their environment.

I'm sick of this whole everything must be fair and equal and taboo truths must not be brought forward mentality.

Conspiracy theorist gave me a study, I saw it and I admitted my mistake and explained my rationale behind my thought process. A little objectivity and pragmatism is good for the soul as well.

If IQ wasn't real, it wouldn't again and again predict educational abilities, and referred to again and again in psychology textbooks and peer scholar articles.

If IQ wasn't real, then a kid with an 165 IQ wouldn't skip grades and forever would be drawing in class.


If IQs wasn't real, innovators wouldn't be said or have a high one.

And nobel prize winners, maybe one or two cases may signify corruption but you do realize you need to be innovative and facilitate a new scientific finding/discovery/study in order to win one right?

Also regarding your question on whether you could guess exactly what their iq would be.



You can't tell with certainty, but you can tell that they would in fact would have scored within that many SD above the average.
I hate to say it, but you really still have not answered my questions or proven your assertion. You've proven nothing
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Unread 02-19-2019, 08:50 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

"I'm sick of this whole everything must be fair and equal and taboo truths must not be brought forward mentality."


I'm not sure where this came from tho. You're not saying anything taboo, that would be giving you too much credit
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  #149  
Unread 02-19-2019, 09:44 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

The point is, astrology shows potentials. IMO, low intelligence flags in a chart cannot be precisely defined. Personally I know two people with Mercury retrograde and they are quite smart and communicate very well, IDK if they're exceptions because both mercuries are in soft aspect with Saturn. We all like to generalize because it's easy, but the furthest we can go is to make gross, naive and (sometimes) offensive assumptions.

As already said intelligence fall in different categories, aspects to a planet strengthens or afflicts it, we also have sect and other methods from traditional astrology that can give us a clue. If mercury is the only planet that depicts raw intelligence in a person, then we can make discussion more constructive and try to correlate each Mercury placement with some cognitive skill. Posters who have an "intelligent" Mercury may help with this

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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
I have noticed some trends around certain birthday clusters - like in mine I'm aware of persons who complain about being late bloomers and behind developmentally or feelings of inadequacy because of some delay they perceive in themselves - I was born during a period where Saturn was stationing direct - permeating that whole time-frame with Saturnine force.

I've also thought about the examples of Micheal Jackson, Tim Burton, and Madonna all being born with couple of weeks of each other. There was an individual who was born during this period who also had very good artistic ability but they never manifested on the world stage like these persons.
Of course generational aspects can be a blessing or a nightmare, but only those who have the aspect prominent can make the best or the worst of these placements. And as traditionalists recognize, astrological placements need to be read in context (bedrock reality?). What if Michael Jackson's father had died a few years after the former was born? (Well, some people believe events are fated so they would say that that wasn't a possibility). Let's suppose that happened, I don't think MJs success would have been the same without his "demanding" father presence during his formative years.
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  #150  
Unread 02-19-2019, 09:46 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnluckyGirl View Post

I would like to ask you if by that's "my experience" you mean your experience with others' people charts or your personal one from your natal chart. If you mean others' people charts could you please send me a pm with charts that have to do with what we were talking about? It's important for me to see the whole chart, it's the most reliable way for me after seeing the charts of people I've known (it's good because most often than not I'm aware of their environment too). If you don't feel comfortable sharing any it's completely fine, just ignore my question.
I base this opinion mostly on own natal chart as well as those of my close family. Those are the charts I've studied in the most depth thus far. I'm not sure I feel comfortable dissecting their charts with you though. I'll have to think about it.
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