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  #1676  
Unread 02-17-2019, 11:09 PM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

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Originally Posted by BlackLioness87 View Post
Why do you suspect Saturn is an A.S.? Do you think its radiation isn't natural? Do you think saturn may have radioactive waste?
It was originally a joke, with Saturn as an spacecraft designed to be in disguise as a Planet, beaming a deathray at the Earth. If you've seen the movie "2001, a Space Odyssey", it's like the Monolith which is stationed on the Moon, causing us to become violent, ambitious, and technological.
Then, I happened to find out that, unlike Saturn, the Moon and other Planets don't emit detectable energy of their own, and just reflect solar radiation. (Please don't tell those that I accidentally figured it out!)

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  #1677  
Unread 02-17-2019, 11:31 PM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

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  #1678  
Unread 02-17-2019, 11:32 PM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

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  #1679  
Unread 02-18-2019, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
It was originally a joke, with Saturn as an spacecraft designed to be in disguise as a Planet, beaming a deathray at the Earth. If you've seen the movie "2001, a Space Odyssey", it's like the Monolith which is stationed on the Moon, causing us to become violent, ambitious, and technological.
Then, I happened to find out that, unlike Saturn, the Moon and other Planets don't emit detectable energy of their own, and just reflect solar radiation. (Please don't tell those that I accidentally figured it out!)
Further research isn't needed, Saturn rings must be responsible for that.

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  #1680  
Unread 02-18-2019, 01:35 AM
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Smile Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

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Further research isn't needed, Saturn rings must be responsible for that.

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  #1681  
Unread 02-18-2019, 06:23 PM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

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  #1682  
Unread 02-18-2019, 06:56 PM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

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  #1683  
Unread 02-18-2019, 10:30 PM
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Smile Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Looked up the etymology of the word "planet". Turns out, it means "wandering", or "wanderer". Nothing necessarily to do with lights in the Heavens. Is Pluto a "star"? In Modern astrology it's often given "star billing", especially when it's applied to a "Pluto generation" , or is in the 8th House. And, although it's slow moving relative to the other astrological Planets, it does eventually make a full trip through all 12 Signs, and is in that sense, a "wanderer".
Disney's cartoon character "Pluto" is a "video-Star". Pluto, the Planet, is an astrological-Star, which wanders through the astrological Signs to possibly great effect, depending on the rest of the Chart.

Last edited by david starling; 02-18-2019 at 10:38 PM.
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  #1684  
Unread 02-18-2019, 11:05 PM
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Smile Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Let us not forget, Uranos(), Poseidon/Neptune, and Osirus/Hades/Pluto were ALL considered MAJOR deities by the ancient cultures. We've done well to include them in our Modern, astrological paradigm.
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  #1685  
Unread 02-18-2019, 11:24 PM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Looked up the etymology of the word "planet". Turns out, it means "wandering", or "wanderer". Nothing necessarily to do with lights in the Heavens. Is Pluto a "star"? In Modern astrology it's often given "star billing", especially when it's applied to a "Pluto generation" , or is in the 8th House. And, although it's slow moving relative to the other astrological Planets, it does eventually make a full trip through all 12 Signs, and is in that sense, a "wanderer".
Disney's cartoon character "Pluto" is a "video-Star". Pluto, the Planet, is an astrological-Star, which wanders through the astrological Signs to possibly great effect, depending on the rest of the Chart.
Kaiousei no Senshi wrote some time ago on this thread as follows

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi View Post

Dirius is correct in noting that the fact the outers carry no visible light is a major detriment to their inclusion into the classical framework. Astrology evolved alongside ancient optical theories and these theories still permeate astrological discourse to this day. Planets in aspect are said to "see" or "regard" one another and their light is often considered a transmitter of their influence.

The word "planet" originally evolved from the Greek "planetes aster", or "wandering star" and referred to the Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Jupiter, Mars, and Saturn whose motion could be detected against the backdrop of fixed stars that are stable in their relative distance from one another, but all move together as one large group.

Another issue with the outer planets in general is that they lack much of the tools that the classical planets have. This isn't just referring to dignities (though that is a large part of it), but they also lack nature, sect, gender, years, winds, orbs, signatures, etc. This may all seem superfluous or unnecessary, but its significance really cannot be overstated. Without these associations, the outer planets are essentially blank orbs without instruction or meaning.

Finally, there is the issue with the meanings contemporary astrologers have given to them. Mostly they either 1) don't make sense within their own context or 2) are already taken by another planet.

About the first, a lot of the meanings of the planets have been assigned to them based on mythological interpretations or perceived mundane events happening around the time of their discovery. A lot of the mythological meanings are cherry picked and often nonsensical, like Uranus ruling rebellion, but in the myth Ouranos is the tyrannical dictator, not the freedom fighter. The mundane events are definitely cherry picked as there are many important events happening around the world at any given time. Pluto was discovered in 1930 and has taken on an association with nuclear force, but when I hear 1930s I think Great Depression and I've never heard anyone associate Pluto with financial ruination.

About the second, each of the outer planets have significations that are more or less plucked from the classical planets. Uranus's reported instability and recklessness can be found in Mercury and Mars. Neptune's illusions and mysticism can be found in the Moon. Pluto's transformation and general heavy-handedness are the domains of Mercury and Saturn. Not only does this create strange, cross-breed planets, but it makes the classical planets into flat characters when their meanings and significations are much more multifaceted in the tradition.
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  #1686  
Unread 02-19-2019, 02:09 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

There is an oft-repeated claim that the 3 Outermosts have no intrinsic characteristics of their own. In other words, they aren't necessary, because the Tradtional 7 can account for their influence without including them as Sign-rulers. This is patently absurd, in light of the fact that the ancient religions THEMSELVES needed them for their characteristics, apart from the Sun, Moon, and Mercury through Saturn, AND gave them major status. In fact, the "Big Three" for the ancient Greeks were Zeus/(Jupiter), Poseidon/(Neptune), and Pluto.
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  #1687  
Unread 02-19-2019, 08:04 AM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Pluto’s energy may be subtle, but its results will hit you like a ton of bricks. This planet is about transformation, regeneration and rebirth. Things aren’t pretty with Pluto, but they do get done. Pluto says ‘out with the old and in with the new,’ and we’d better be ready for it. If we’re not, this planet will simply have us wallow in our misery. Pluto asks us to transcend that which we know, redeem ourselves in the process, and come out stronger as a result.
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  #1688  
Unread 02-19-2019, 09:38 AM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

I think you're mixing up modern astrology with traditional again. Trad astrology isn't based in mythology. Read some yourself, you'll see.

If you're curious about the philosophy behind trad, I suggest studying, and meditating upon, both the Greek and Zoroastrian charts of the world. They have quite a lot to say.

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
There is an oft-repeated claim that the 3 Outermosts have no intrinsic characteristics of their own. In other words, they aren't necessary, because the Tradtional 7 can account for their influence without including them as Sign-rulers. This is patently absurd, in light of the fact that the ancient religions THEMSELVES needed them for their characteristics, apart from the Sun, Moon, and Mercury through Saturn, AND gave them major status. In fact, the "Big Three" for the ancient Greeks were Zeus/(Jupiter), Poseidon/(Neptune), and Pluto.
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  #1689  
Unread 02-19-2019, 09:52 AM
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Smile Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

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I think you're mixing up modern astrology with traditional again. Trad astrology isn't based in mythology. Read some yourself, you'll see.

If you're curious about the philosophy behind trad, I suggest studying, and meditating upon, both the Greek and Zoroastrian charts of the world. They have quite a lot to say.
Sounds like Trad astrology is entirely atheistic. Interesting, considering it developed in very religious times.
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  #1690  
Unread 02-19-2019, 10:24 AM
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Smile Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Zoroasterism is the religion of good versus evil, and light versus dark. You're saying none of that is reflected in Zoroastrian astrology? They also firmly believed that the souls of those who served evil would be imprisoned in the Underworld until Ohrmazd, the god of light, triumphed over the god of darkness.
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  #1691  
Unread 02-19-2019, 11:14 AM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

You believe good and evil, light and dark, are myths?

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Zoroasterism is the religion of good versus evil, and light versus dark. You're saying none of that is reflected in Zoroastrian astrology? They also firmly believed that the souls of those who served evil would be imprisoned in the Underworld until Ohrmazd, the god of light, triumphed over the god of darkness.
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  #1692  
Unread 02-19-2019, 11:21 AM
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Smile Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

"Where the light is brightest, the shadows are deepest."-{Goethe}
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  #1693  
Unread 02-19-2019, 07:55 PM
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Smile Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

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Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
I think you're mixing up modern astrology with traditional again. Trad astrology isn't based in mythology. Read some yourself, you'll see.

If you're curious about the philosophy behind trad, I suggest studying, and meditating upon, both the Greek and Zoroastrian charts of the world. They have quite a lot to say.
I wasn't criticizing Traditionalists for not using the Outermosts. I meant that Modernists don't have to take characteristics from the easily visible 7 to "create" descriptions of the outer 3, because ancient religions have already done that for us. It's a different angle of view, not an "either/or" situation.
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  #1694  
Unread 02-20-2019, 11:08 PM
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Smile Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Actually, if we define an "astrological planet" as one that can be tracked astronomically along the zodiacal circle AND is accorded Sign-rulership, then a Traditional astrologer COULD use Pluto as a non-Sign-ruling auxiliary point, along with other such points. It's the Sign-rulership that really counts. All Traditionalists are using the same 7 Sign-rulers exclusively. In this particular community, unlike some others, the Modern Outermosts, even as non-Sign-ruling auxiliary points, are excluded on the sole basis that they aren't identifiable using only naked-eye vision.
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  #1695  
Unread 02-21-2019, 06:03 PM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

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  #1696  
Unread 02-21-2019, 06:16 PM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

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  #1697  
Unread 02-21-2019, 11:12 PM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

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Unread 02-22-2019, 12:54 PM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

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Unread 02-22-2019, 01:27 PM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

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Unread 02-22-2019, 01:46 PM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

As Dirius explains
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The problem to us is that, in the general view of astrology, many of the things represented by the modern Pluto, are incompatible with most of the traditional teachings.

1) First of all, is what we consider the "aberrations", such as pluto ruling Scorpio (instead of Mars), or ruling sex, death, and the many more things that have been claimed to it. Like we've said in some posts, most of the attributes linked to pluto are borrowed (rather stolen) from other planets; mainly from Mars and Saturn. When we look at the many things pluto represents to modernists, we see it as a weird mix of the other planets.

2) Second, is the way this aberrations are presented to us. No reasoning or explanation behind them. It is "just because". No one explains why pluto does any of these things. No one gives evidence but saying stuff like:"pluto transiting your 2nd house, that is why you have money problems".

3) Third, is the interchangable nature and the many more significations that pluto recieves. Some go from treating pluto as an extreme malefic (associated with violence) or as a good benefic (positive and idealistic changes). It is as if authors on the subject apply anything that crosses their minds into pluto. Seems rather odd that the planet can be both good or bad, and mostly at the authors will. If someone needs to explain something good they use pluto, something bad, they use pluto too. It seems to me that pluto is rather used as a tool to explain things that don't seem to fit into modern astrology.

4) Fourth, as we said many times: the 7 classical planets explain everything. Pluto really adds nothing new. So why use something that can't give us more info?

5) Fifth and final, pluto doesn't reflect light, can't be seen with the naked eye. It is a small asteroid, with many more asteroids like him orbiting the sun. If you are going to use pluto, why not use Europa (jupiter's moon)?
We covered this in the first 3 pages so I won't go much into detail with it.

But pretty much, to us, pluto seems like a perfect solution for ignoring all the other stuff that needs to be accounted for. It seems like an easy solution for modern astrology to explain things that are complicated to explain.
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