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  #1  
Unread 04-19-2013, 02:04 PM
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scorpio stereotypes

Hi all,

I am still a newbie in astrology, but I find it interesting that scorpios seem to attract much more stereotypes than other signs.

I am not saying scorpios are pastel-coloured little angels, but do depth and intensity really have to mean that we are all mere puppets of our impulses and emotions?

How come, then, that the most destructive people in human history were coming from all kinds of signs, shouldn't the vast majority be scorpios?

Why is it that the evil of a scorpio (like Rommel) is "typical" of that sign but the evil of a leo (Mussolini or Castro), an aquarius (Kim Jong-il), a sagittarius (Stalin), an aries (Hitler) etc is not "typical" at all?

Why is it that when you meet a "bad" scorpio, then they are a typical scorpio, while the "badnesss" of a leo, an aquarius, a sagittarius or an aries are almost always due to other factors of the chart as if there was no inherent evil (or goodness) in all signs (and people)?

Are scorpios really so much more frequently victims of their own unconscious or do they really victimize others so much more frequently than the other signs, or is it just easier to project on them (as a group, and as individuals) certain aspects of being human that we are not so comfortable with?

Is it because we are at home in the dusk and the dark where things come to a life invisible by the light of day? Does the night merely hide your familiar world, doesn't it also allow your eyes to observe your beloved stars?

T.


Last edited by Therese; 04-19-2013 at 02:11 PM.
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Unread 04-19-2013, 05:55 PM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

I agree. I always thought some descriptions went so overboard with the mysterious/sexy/secretive thing that no one besides a two-dimensional character would relate to it.
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Unread 04-19-2013, 06:06 PM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

Quote:
Why is it that when you meet a "bad" scorpio, then they are a typical scorpio, while the "badnesss" of a leo, an aquarius, a sagittarius or an aries are almost always due to other factors of the chart as if there was no inherent evil (or goodness) in all signs (and people)?
Good or bad comes down to planetary dignity. All planets have the potential to be bad.

The Scorpio stereotype is perhaps the most annoying of all astrology nonsenses.

I read someone here quite seriously suggesting that all Scorpios are rapists and psycopaths such.

Total, absolute twaddle
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Unread 04-19-2013, 07:52 PM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

Hey BluEyedGrl105 and Moog,

I tend to think that when somebody considers a whole group of people to be like this or like that because of one factor (and i don't think it matters whether we are talking about skin colour, spiritual/sexual/whatever orientation, mental illness or sun sign), it is the same kind of mechanism at work. We want to control something that makes us feel uneasy.

It is much more pleasant to conclude, for example, that all people with blue hair are nasty than to conclude that - for one reason or another - I invite "nasty" people into my life, and, as I am attracted to people with blue hair, chances are that the most "nasty" person(s) in my life will be from among them... of course, when we are talking about inner stuff, the picture gets more complicated, because there is also a reason why somebody has all their four marriages with abusive partners, and other stuff like that.
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Unread 04-19-2013, 08:31 PM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

I don't believe that scorpios attract more stereotypes than any of the other signs.

In general it seems, scorpios, pisces, cancers, and geminis receive about equal measure of stereotyping. especially in the negative sense. i think scorpios gain attention because of sex factors. so if say, you are researching compatability between signs and so on... most people are going to be drawn to the all the sex talk having to do with scorpio astrology.

really depends what you are looking into and/or researching.


and stalin and hilter were both taureans
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Unread 04-19-2013, 09:17 PM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

Hi ashriia,

personally, I am just trying to find my way with astrology.

but I generally dislike generalizations

I understand that it is the nature of life that certain patterns exist, but it also seems to be the nature of life that these patterns are themselves in constant change (why/how they change is irrelevant atm). So i guess the issue of stereotypes is also a question about astrology itself, how rigid or alive is it? how much of it is set in stone, and how much of it is alive? From an astrological point of view, how does the individual relate to the whole (to a pattern)?
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Unread 04-21-2013, 04:50 AM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

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Originally Posted by Therese View Post
Hi ashriia,

personally, I am just trying to find my way with astrology.

but I generally dislike generalizations

I understand that it is the nature of life that certain patterns exist, but it also seems to be the nature of life that these patterns are themselves in constant change (why/how they change is irrelevant atm). So i guess the issue of stereotypes is also a question about astrology itself, how rigid or alive is it? how much of it is set in stone, and how much of it is alive? From an astrological point of view, how does the individual relate to the whole (to a pattern)?
Not sure I follow..
trying to understand your thinking here though. You are aware that patterns exist in life...and that they are in constant flux.. why & how these changes occur your not interested in currently. but you are questioning patterns in astrology and possible rigidity to these patterns. but to respond to that i think would require a how and why.

i do believe alot of astrology is alive. the aspects seen in a chart are integrative over time, depending on how someone has worked on problem areas in their personalities or denied others.. not all aspects effect people in the exact same way.. but overall, there may be similarities with others who share a particular aspect. so that would be the pattern.
was that what you were wondering at ? or am i way off?
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Unread 04-21-2013, 06:00 PM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

I agree with OP. Its irritating how there is so much stereotypes associated with the sign Scorpio. These include; intense, high-sex drive, possessive, powerful, mysterious, magnetic and fearless... I wish I had these qualities and I am Scorpio sun with Scorpio ASC. I have kind eyes, I wish I had the famous Scorpio stare. These judgments are probably why several people think astrology is BS.
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Unread 04-23-2013, 08:49 AM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

hi Ashriia,

Thanks a lot, basically that's what I wanted to know. Because at first look, I mean, you look at a chart and it seems static, while the individual is never static, nor is the environment that surrounds them. So there seems to be some contradiction there...

when you say "the aspects in a chart are integrative over time, depending on how someone has worked on problem areas in their personalities or denied others" do i understand well that you are talking about the secondary progressed chart (among other things)?

so, if my secondary progressed chart looks totally different from my birth chart, that's normal, and that is the chart I should study right now? or should i be comparing my natal chart with the secondary progressed one?

I am sorry, I am asking a lot of questions and it is totally okay if you do not have the time for this. I am doing my homework, reading astrology books... do you have a favourite that you feel helped you a lot?

I'm actually pretty much interested in how and why patterns change, but it is a huge topic, I'd be happy to open a new thread about it if you are interested. atm I just wanted to focus on understanding how astrology views these patterns, how rigidly or flexibly.

Thanks again!

T.
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Unread 04-23-2013, 08:53 AM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

lol, Erickaf,

how Scorpio do I look?

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...&postcount=104

I bet you're scared

T.
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Unread 04-23-2013, 05:02 PM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

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lol, Erickaf,

how Scorpio do I look?

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...&postcount=104

I bet you're scared

T.
Just your eyes? Can't really tell. But honestly the most 'intense' and smoldering people I have met are Cancer ascs or Cancer people...:-).
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Unread 04-23-2013, 09:39 PM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

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Originally Posted by Therese View Post
hi Ashriia,

Thanks a lot, basically that's what I wanted to know. Because at first look, I mean, you look at a chart and it seems static, while the individual is never static, nor is the environment that surrounds them. So there seems to be some contradiction there...

when you say "the aspects in a chart are integrative over time, depending on how someone has worked on problem areas in their personalities or denied others" do i understand well that you are talking about the secondary progressed chart (among other things)?

so, if my secondary progressed chart looks totally different from my birth chart, that's normal, and that is the chart I should study right now? or should i be comparing my natal chart with the secondary progressed one?

I am sorry, I am asking a lot of questions and it is totally okay if you do not have the time for this. I am doing my homework, reading astrology books... do you have a favourite that you feel helped you a lot?

I'm actually pretty much interested in how and why patterns change, but it is a huge topic, I'd be happy to open a new thread about it if you are interested. atm I just wanted to focus on understanding how astrology views these patterns, how rigidly or flexibly.

Thanks again!

T.
Hi again Therese,

Actually i was moreso thinking in terms of just the natal chart alone and transits. I didn't even consider progressed charts actually when i replied.
I was thinking in terms of transiting planets, particularly of outer planets that make conjunctions to natal planets which bring that area of life up for inspection, or it might also get projected onto others so either way we face the problem. Either way, changes will need to be made - adjustments. and how to choose to work through that area of life is individualistic. The chart, can't determine that. That is really where free will is apparent.

Especially in the case of Saturn and Pluto transits to natal houses. Both cause great challenges to our lives. But like with pluto you can either hold on and be totally obsessed and power hungry for the rest of your life in that area that pluto influences natally. or you can let go...move on... transform and find fulfillment in that area of life. it's totally up to the individual.

just my 2 cents
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Unread 04-24-2013, 12:25 AM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

If a person has just their sun in scorpio, they will not be as strongly scorpio as a person with multiple planets in scorpio, multiple strong aspects to Pluto or an eighth house stellium.

With that being said, I have never met a sun sign scorpio who didn't have that underlying intensity and mystery, its often hard to know what they are really thinking. It seems to me that they all have the capacity for that famous scorpio sting when mad!
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Unread 04-24-2013, 02:45 PM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

We're admittedly a very selfish species by that which we see to destroy that which we fear having in our lives instead of letting it go and live and let live.

It is a very disgusting part of the human race: We were built to destroy that only we do not understand; admittedly, that serves to be any fear imagined or real. Lives, nature and all of civilization is destroyed, just because we never took the time to learn further. Human suffering comes out of such a deep selfish fear of what would happen if we were to ackinowledge something.

Judgement is but the way towards man's own destruction. I would never in the least dub it as human nature or even unforgivable. Ever. It is the most disgusting barbaric habit we could ever pick up.
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Unread 04-24-2013, 07:22 PM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

That Scorpio stereotype; remember that the archetype of any particular sign is modified by the aspects to it. From the perspective of a Scorpio Rising, this is the way in which we project ourselves out into the public; the ASC is only the image we express as one component of the total self.
Yes, I have often used the 'stare'; yes I am emotionally intense; yes I am often perceived as being secretive and mysterious. Scorpio is about penetrating into the depths of all things; digging out the roots of things; is driven to find meaning and substance in life; also, the survival instinct is often very strong, and I have often found that I have had to stand firmly in my own defence, and in the defence of others. Think in terms of the symbol of the scorpion; is definitely equipped for self-defence and will stand against any imminent threat; still it prefers to retreat under rocks for protection, in order to survive. Afflictions to Scorpio tend to bring out that scorpion sting..that fight or flight instinct...that is what makes us seem dauntless. Afflictions will also bring out vindictiveness, resentment and anger due to the need for power and control. Again, the primary mandate is about self-defence. We are also driven to critical psychological transformations due to the various crises we tend to encounter along the way. Life is serious business. Many of us prefer to work alone so as to avoid the interference of others; this makes us seem secretive. Scorpio is under the karmic mandate to transform from the lower instincts of the lesser consciousness, and to rise high above to soar like the eagle [higher consciousness] to see beyond the petty concerns of the physical world, in search of deeper, more mystical awareness...this is the higher expression of Scorpio; our lessons also involve the right use of power and control. Instead of using power to control others, we are to learn about mastering our own emotions. Imbued with great intensity and drive we can acquire great profundity and knowledge in our journey; we can perceive life from a broader perspective to see the greater picture of life; thus we often get impatient with superficiality. It is only when living on the lower level of consciousness that individuals tend to sink to the baser instincts of inappropriate lust, greed, power plays and attempts to manipulate others; obsessions and jealousies, anger or violence and possessiveness all arise from triggers hidden deep within the psyche. Cross us and we can be a formidable enemy; understand us and we will take you to greater level of awareness and understanding...and we will be your most ardent defender. These are things I have learned under the guise of the Scorpio persona.
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Unread 04-24-2013, 08:11 PM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

Hi Ashriia,

OH! I have so many things going on in my natal chart that planetary "interactions" seem overwhelming. So it is actually easier to look at those planets that do not interact with each other. I guess it is only a poetic question whether stelliums count, lol

I am not sure what I think, whether in life we solve one problem and go to the next one, or that we have a few bigger issues and we are just always taking them to the next level (if all goes well). I tend towards the latter, I guess. In either case, I think I "get" what you say.

Natally, saturn is conjunct with my moon in virgo. I just played with progressions to my chart to find out when my saturn return was. well, it was quite a year for me, for sure. Very emotional and very self-reflexive at the same time. I was put in a situation where I could basically re-live a childhood trauma, so it was also a tremendous opportunity to gain a new perspective on what happened (meaning how I perceived it consciously and unconsciouly at the time). and I realized quite a lot about how my psyche works in those depths where consciousness rarely fights to shed light on.

So I guess I "get" the power of saturn, as well.

T.
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Unread 04-25-2013, 02:52 PM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

Hi all,

I have my sun in scorpio, and a stellium of uranus, mercury, venus and mars in the fifth house in Scorpio, so I should be quite scorpionic, I guess...

About negative stereotypes:

for example, herbal women, female shamans, etc, also used to be considered "intense" and "mysterious", but they were tolerated for a while even during the middle ages,sometimes even respected (depending on what they did for others).

However, there came a distinct shift in the collective consciousness starting from the 16th century, when they suddenly became witches, even women who had nothing to do with "alternative religious practices" were labelled so and they were tortured and burnt on the stake.

Good, law abiding citizens have a tendency to turn into a bloodthirsty mob and people attended the tortures as if they were going to the movies.

We jump to 20th century Europe and the Holocaust, mostly in Germany, but not only, good law-abiding "average" citizens turned into a cruel, insensitive mob and witnessed the torture and killing of a minority for being different (not to mention those who took active part in it). And I have not mentioned the rest of the world, Asia, America, Africa...

in my opinion, there is nothing as dangerous as "the majority" and "the normal"...

T.
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Unread 04-25-2013, 03:38 PM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

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Why is it that the evil of a scorpio (like Rommel) is "typical" of that sign but the evil of a leo (Mussolini or Castro), an aquarius (Kim Jong-il), a sagittarius (Stalin), an aries (Hitler) etc is not "typical" at all?
Hitler was actually a Taurus -but barely so. Rommel was actually a good general and part of the plot to remove Hitler -he died because of that.

You are right to question generalizations and stereotypes -that's sunsign astrology prone to massive error. Best to judge on a case-by-case basis considering everything about a person's chart.

Like yourself I have a large stellium in Scorpio and should be so Scorpionic to the max, yet I come across as Sag and Libra (my ASC and Mars) I feel like (and have the soul of) a Sag. -my Moon, and my Scorpio stellium is mostly in in the 11th -a very social house of friends and groups, and truly I've known people of other signs whose luminaries hard-aspected Pluto and/or resided in the 8th house and they were more sterotypically Scorpio than I am! So we MUST consider the whole picture!

That said, some generalizations about signs DO apply but can be offset by other factors- houses, placements, and timing -that is, how old the person is, and the point where they are on their individual path of evolution, and the impact of major generational transits. Sometimes a person has to work through the negative overleaves of their sign (and they all have them -any sign can be "dark") before self actualization into the soul purpose of the sign. Healing and integration work (esp. meditation)help tremendously in that regard.

The Sun is the ego and essential purpose and Scorpio's basic function is to process the Shadow -- "digging deep" (it is an emotionally deep sign) into the nether regions of the subconscious mind, the so-called 'dark side', and such may manifest as an inclination or fascination with dark things. It's why I wear a black leather jacket! Conscious awareness of self and this process goes a long way to defusing the trap of being overtaken by shadow stuff, as Manson and co. were. But sometimes we just have to learn and grow the hard way, through experience and painful life lessons, and not let the depression (which watersigns -like Scorpio especially- tend to get mired in), obscure this growth.

Last edited by Horus; 04-25-2013 at 03:53 PM.
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Unread 04-26-2013, 01:18 PM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

hi kimbermoon,

I just found out that scorpions glow in "black light" (at full moon, for example, or under a uv lamp) And that despite being "just" bugs, their eyes are so sensitive that "they can detect the faint glow of starlight against the background of the night sky. They amplify those faint signals by turning their entire bodies into light collectors." http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/no.../#.UXpsdUphC8w

I find this interesting from a symbolic point of view, as well. Maybe scorpios, too, are not drawn to the night for its own sake... maybe the lights we want to perceive and "gather" are too faint or too irrelevant (for the daily business of life) for most people to care about. Together with the scariness of the dark, we are dismissed, and with us, so is the light we've found and want to share...

T.
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Unread 04-27-2013, 01:24 PM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

It does seem at times that astrology is used as a way for people to vent their anger/bitterness and negativity.bit like mud slinging. So much of this lacks depth and proper research.

how about scorpio's be rememered for their integrity, loyalty and determination to succeed(seeing things through to resolution) I think of Hilary Clinton on the world stage but their are others on a more mundane every day level.
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Unread 04-28-2013, 02:00 AM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

Deleting this post for reason specified below.
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Last edited by Munch; 04-28-2013 at 02:02 AM. Reason: Accidently posted on the wrong thread. Apologies.
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Unread 04-30-2013, 09:50 AM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

hi Horus,

thanks for the correction. I picked Rommel because he was the only person I found in power at the time who was a scorpio. But you are right, he was actually a good person living in evil times.

Apart from Charles Manson, I did not really manage to find anyone who was a scorpio and a terrible danger to others, but I admit I spent only a few days on it. By the way, why does Manson seem to get more attention than some other, and probably more horrible serial killers, like Jeffrey Dahmer, Albert Fish or Ted Bundy? Just wondering.

It's interesting that you feel more like a sagittarius personally, I could not really pick a sign that I can identify with. My stellium is in the 5th house, in Scorpio, and I am pretty obsessive about writing. Until I met my husband, and we started to discover the world together and then have our daughter, I could not even imagine there was anything else worth living for than writing, lol. Big kudos to them!

Quote:
The Sun is the ego and essential purpose and Scorpio's basic function is to process the Shadow -- "digging deep" (it is an emotionally deep sign) into the nether regions of the subconscious mind, the so-called 'dark side', and such may manifest as an inclination or fascination with dark things.
Yes, this is something I can relate to, during my first twenty years I used most of my energies to establish a constructive relation to the shadow - my own, and that of important others (family). I find it true what I read about Pluto, that its great lesson is letting go. But a lot of people think that "letting go" means simply turning our back on it. Maybe it works for some people, just leaving things where they are and turning their back on it or locking it up in the wardrobe and get on with their lives. It's not a workable approach for me. Personally, in order to let something go, I have to experience it as fully as I can, then reflect on it, and when I feel that I learnt from this experience, it is no longer "mine". It is sort of an experience shared by all humankind, I do not own it, and it does not own me. It's a part of reality, like the rain, the sun or the dust.

T.
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Unread 04-30-2013, 06:40 PM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

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Apart from Charles Manson, I did not really manage to find anyone who was a scorpio and a terrible danger to others, but I admit I spent only a few days on it. By the way, why does Manson seem to get more attention than some other, and probably more horrible serial killers, like Jeffrey Dahmer, Albert Fish or Ted Bundy? Just wondering.
Because he's responsible for the murder of a popular celebrity at the time, actress Sharon Tate, the pregnant wife of director Roman Polanski, so there's was a heck of lot of press just around that! He was also not operating alone, but controlling a cult, and his 'Helter Skelter' apocalyptic philosophy and music also impacted other musicians like Marilyn Manson. All of this distinguishes him from the others.

Quote:
It's interesting that you feel more like a sagittarius personally, I could not really pick a sign that I can identify with.
I probably should have elaborated more on my choice for the word "feel". I only meant that in the context of the Moon being the emotional center of feelings. I identify with five signs in my chart, in different ways, to different degrees. Sag. definitely is one of the strongest within me, not just because of my Moon and ASC but I also have a stellium in the 9th house which magnifies typical Sagittarian interests in archaeology, history, metaphysics, foreign language and culture, travel, etc.

Quote:
My stellium is in the 5th house, in Scorpio, and I am pretty obsessive about writing. Until I met my husband, and we started to discover the world together and then have our daughter, I could not even imagine there was anything else worth living for than writing, lol. Big kudos to them!
Yes, I see that! Five planets in the 5th -wow! And Jupiter in Leo in the 1st -I would say that Leo is one of your prominent signs, well its creative aspect for sure! That's so great -lucky you!

I'm an artist with Saturn in the 5th -now that's not so great...

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Yes, this is something I can relate to, during my first twenty years I used most of my energies to establish a constructive relation to the shadow - my own, and that of important others (family). I find it true what I read about Pluto, that its great lesson is letting go. But a lot of people think that "letting go" means simply turning our back on it. Maybe it works for some people, just leaving things where they are and turning their back on it or locking it up in the wardrobe and get on with their lives. It's not a workable approach for me. Personally, in order to let something go, I have to experience it as fully as I can, then reflect on it, and when I feel that I learnt from this experience, it is no longer "mine". It is sort of an experience shared by all humankind, I do not own it, and it does not own me. It's a part of reality, like the rain, the sun or the dust.
Yes I agree about the Plutonic release of letting go -it usually pertains to stagnant things, which have already been experienced, "used up", and are no longer vital or serving growth. Quite a different motive from abandonment or escape!

Scorpio's highest state is as a healer/transformer (which is what my 10th house Sun does as a hypnotherapist), which may involve this kind of release, and if one clings, then destruction! Volcanoes are associated with Scorpio/Pluto because they "destroy"-- clear the land around them, but in doing so, they make room for the new. Look at the devastation around Mt St Helens when it blew in 1980, yet afterwards, in all of that mineral-rich ash and pyroclastic material deposited in the surrounding landscape, life has taken root and flourishes in the wilderness there once again!
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Therese (05-02-2013)
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

Hi Horus,

fifth house stellium or not, obsession and talent do not necessarily go hand in hand... being obsessed with writing does not mean that I have ever created anything of value, or that I ever will... and I even wonder whether anybody reads poetry anymore.... .

In any case, I wrote this with our discussion in mind:

Poem

a handful of rhymes
along the road -
the curve defines
a spirit-boat
without a sea...
stray Odyssey.

T.
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Last edited by Therese; 05-02-2013 at 08:14 PM.
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Unread 05-02-2013, 08:48 PM
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Re: scorpio stereotypes

Hi,

When we talk of Scorpions (people), we are talking of people with their Sun in Scorpio. The Sun is the core or centre of the being. That is like the very basic fabric of the being. So, as a solar Aquarian, I am blessed with the basic fabric (which will always stay in me - being my core) of eccentricity (more than other sun signs) and independence a poor or distant emotional expression of the self. This is my inherent core.

In the same vein, if I were a Scorpio Sun, I, for sure have the basic inherent qualities (more than other signs) of fierce determination, depth, but also manipulation and vengeance. This would be the basic fabric or core of every Scorpio Sun. This means that the basic fabric, which imbibes the basic qualities (both the goods and the bads) that are associated with the 12 signs form the core of the human being.

The question is how much of a Scorpionism or Aquarianism one really lets out. Now that really depends on the rest of the chart, and the transits plus progressions at a given point in time. This is also the reason why not all Scorpions are not murderers or all Aquarians lunatics roaming around with multicoloured hairs and pierced eyelids.

AQ7
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