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  #76  
Unread 11-09-2019, 01:54 AM
Ancar Ancar is offline
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Re: The Ugly Side of the Age of Aquarius

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Ancar, I really like your description of the astrological Ages as being "vast in scope". I discovered that in order to comprehend them more fully, it would take more than a single point, or even a single line.
I appreciate your comment!
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The founder of Modernistic siderealism, Cyril Fagan, gave me the idea. He saw the Age of Pisces as an Age of Aries, ruled by Mars. He knew a Piscean Age would be far more peaceful than what transpired following its beginning, according to his reckoning, in 221 A.D. He also said that since the Age of Pisces was more an Age of Aries, that would mean the Age of Aquarius would be like an Age of Pisces. He stopped there, and pretty much discounted the Vernal Point as a valid Age-indicator.
He should have stopped even before that - I give no credence whatsoever to Cyril Fagan and his his "Neo-Siderealism". His interpretation of the Age of Pisces as an Age of Aries is messed-up nonsense in "my humble opinion". As I have suggested before, the Age of Pisces has manifested not only the positive characteristics of Pisces (i.e., the first time in history that the concepts of selfless love of others, anti-materialism, non-aggression, and willing sacrifice of material wealth for spiritual transcendence - or that an icon such as Jesus - emerged as so significant in the minds of so many) - but also manifested, most unfortunately, the terrible negative "shadow" of Pisces - irrational religious fervor and paranoia, as well as its "flip side", victimization. The victimization (Piscean) resulted from zealous religious conviction (also Piscean) [remember Pisces is two fish swimming in opposite directions] - starting with the brutal humiliation and crucifixion of Jesus, later the massive murders committed by the "spiritually driven" Torquemada and his ghastly Inquisition, the religiously driven Albigensian Crusade, which purged an entire region of devoutly spiritual people who were judged heretical to the "true faith", to the murderous Great "Christian" Crusades themselves, and later the "spiritually inspired" Salem witch burnings, the murderous purging of Protestants by the "good Christian" Queen Bloody Mary, ad nauseum.
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But, it gave me an idea: The Vernal Point is referred to as the "First Point of [tropical] Aries, which is a constructed 30 degree length of arc. Modernistic siderealism discounts the tropical zodiac altogether, so, i took the nomenclature "First Point of Aries" dropped the name Aries, but kept the entire 30 degree length, using BOTH the first and last points, and called it the "Age Interval". I also dropped the rest of the tropical zodiac, which wasn't needed in the sidereal context. Now I'm using the term "Age Window", because it's the window through which the Ages can be seen in a more comprehensive way.
You lost me here. The tropical zodiac based on the Vernal Equinox has proven itself valid throughout the history of Western astrology. The Tropical and Sidereal zodiacs last aligned - "matched up" - near 1 AD, so the juncture of the climax of the Arian Roman Empire and the dawn of Jesus' phenomenal Piscean seachange in the minds of so many seems to make perfect sense.
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Pisces would be acoustic music, soulful, melodic, and low decibel.
Not if irrational paranoia sets in, unpredictably triggered by characteristic Piscean fears and superstitions. Neptunians can too easily go into pathological paranoia without some balance from Saturn or other stabilizing factors. (I have a stellium in Pisces, unfortunately...I know.)
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Whereas Aries would be highly amplified, heavy metal rock. A case of background overwhelming foreground. Although it was enough to end the Roman Empire, the Age of Pisces couldn't contain the warlike influence of Mars, and still can't, on the spiritual level.
On this, I would strongly recommened that you read the 3rd Section of Koestler's Ghost in the Machine. It explains incredible mass violence due to centripetal, integrating "spiritual belief" (which is a Piscean characteristic). Think Inquisition, Crusades, Jihad, ISIS, Northern Ireland, etc.

The best explanation of the Ages that I've ever found is Ray Grasse's Signs of the Times - which, with Grasse's ever-amazing syncretism, elucidates the Tropical Zodiac revolving within the Sidereal Zodiac, two systems that he freely integrates (which has always been my inclination), perhaps including the "windows" that I think you may be referring to (see Appendix One, pp. 237-235). Grasse also points out the aberration that the Age of Cancer, according to traditional Sidereal boundaries of that constellation, would last only last 1000 years - which upsets my gut feeling for balance. I feel that even the Sidereal zodiac should be based on equal degrees for each sign and not on the positions of the particular stars that form the constellation that dominates that sector.

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Unread 11-09-2019, 05:28 AM
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I appreciate your comment!He should have stopped even before that - I give no credence whatsoever to Cyril Fagan and his his "Neo-Siderealism". His interpretation of the Age of Pisces as an Age of Aries is messed-up nonsense in "my humble opinion". As I have suggested before, the Age of Pisces has manifested not only the positive characteristics of Pisces (i.e., the first time in history that the concepts of selfless love of others, anti-materialism, non-aggression, and willing sacrifice of material wealth for spiritual transcendence - or that an icon such as Jesus - emerged as so significant in the minds of so many) - but also manifested, most unfortunately, the terrible negative "shadow" of Pisces - irrational religious fervor and paranoia, as well as its "flip side", victimization. The victimization (Piscean) resulted from zealous religious conviction (also Piscean) [remember Pisces is two fish swimming in opposite directions] - starting with the brutal humiliation and crucifixion of Jesus, later the massive murders committed by the "spiritually driven" Torquemada and his ghastly Inquisition, the religiously driven Albigensian Crusade, which purged an entire region of devoutly spiritual people who were judged heretical to the "true faith", to the murderous Great "Christian" Crusades themselves, and later the "spiritually inspired" Salem witch burnings, the murderous purging of Protestants by the "good Christian" Queen Bloody Mary, ad nauseum.You lost me here. The tropical zodiac based on the Vernal Equinox has proven itself valid throughout the history of Western astrology. The Tropical and Sidereal zodiacs last aligned - "matched up" - near 1 AD, so the juncture of the climax of the Arian Roman Empire and the dawn of Jesus' phenomenal Piscean seachange in the minds of so many seems to make perfect sense.Not if irrational paranoia sets in, unpredictably triggered by characteristic Piscean fears and superstitions. Neptunians can too easily go into pathological paranoia without some balance from Saturn or other stabilizing factors. (I have a stellium in Pisces, unfortunately...I know.)

On this, I would strongly recommened that you read the 3rd Section of Koestler's Ghost in the Machine. It explains incredible mass violence due to centripetal, integrating "spiritual belief" (which is a Piscean characteristic). Think Inquisition, Crusades, Jihad, ISIS, Northern Ireland, etc.

The best explanation of the Ages that I've ever found is Ray Grasse's Signs of the Times - which, with Grasse's ever-amazing syncretism, elucidates the Tropical Zodiac revolving within the Sidereal Zodiac, two systems that he freely integrates (which has always been my inclination), perhaps including the "windows" that I think you may be referring to (see Appendix One, pp. 237-235). Grasse also points out the aberration that the Age of Cancer, according to traditional Sidereal boundaries of that constellation, would last only last 1000 years - which upsets my gut feeling for balance. I feel that even the Sidereal zodiac should be based on equal degrees for each sign and not on the positions of the particular stars that form the constellation that dominates that sector.
Most siderealists are using equal Signs. It's only when it comes to the Ages that you have so many tropicalists resorting to the unequal lengths of the constellations to explain the Ages using the Vernal Point which doesn't (can't) move through the tropical zodiac.
If you begin with a premise, and you have to resort to misrepresenting and distorting the Sign Pisces in order to "make it work", time for a new premise: There's another type of Age manifesting along with it. Just as, when a planetary orbit isn't behaving as expected, there's another planetary orbit involved, changing the dynamics. So, it's not the "shadow" side of Pisces , it's the tropical, Earth-sign Age of of Capricorn, ruled by Saturn. The early Roman Catholic Church derived "Satan, Prince of this World" from Saturn , and recognized its power and authority. You can't logically get that from an Age of Pisces, even with a background Age of Aries.
Clearly, the Ages have to be tracked by a transiting point through the zodiac you're actually using to draw Charts. The Vernal Point simply won't make the Ages available in a tropical Chart, but that doesn't mean there's not another astronomical point that can. As for the Age Window concept, I see it as the PART of the Ecliptic, divided into 12 equal, measured Sign-divisions in both tropical and sidereal zodiacs, representing the WHOLE Ecliptic ("The Part Representing the Whole' is a time-honored concept in and of itself).
With the Age Window method, the overlapping of civilizations is easily explained, as well as the overlap of Age Characteristics. Many who have studied the Ages have noted the apparent overlap, which a single point or line doesn't describe.
I'm not discounting the (Retrograde-motion) sidereal Age of Pisces. What I'm saying is, it needs a (Direct-motion) tropical Age to accompany it. And, an Age Window to explain why, for example, the Greco-Roman period is still so important to our Age, whereas the Ancient Egyptian culture remained so relevant during the Greco-Roman period, then dropped to what historians refer to as a "dead culture" in the early part of this Age.

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No way a sidereal Age of Pisces alone, without the coincidental, tropical Age of Capricorn, would manifest a Time-ruled Age such as this, with clocks now accurate to a millionth of a second. That's Saturn's doing.

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Unread 11-09-2019, 07:12 AM
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•This tropical Age of the 10th Sign manifested the base-ten decimal system.
•This ambitious, confrontational, materialistic, Western culture would not be the result of a Neptunian-ruled Age of Pisces.
•Just as the Sun enters tropical Capricorn at the darkest time of year, the tropically located Age-indicator entered Capricorn at the beginning of the "Dark Ages".
•The preceding Age of tropical Sagittarius, a Sign represented by the GREEK Centaur, manifested the ancient Greek culture, which had Zeus/(Jupiter) as king of the gods.
•The tropical Age of Scorpio preceding that of Sagittarius, a Sign represented by the Egyptian scorpion, manifested the mortuary culture of ancient Egypt, complete with the rulership of Osirus/(Pluto).
•And, so on and so forth.

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Unread 11-09-2019, 08:08 AM
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Ancar, are you saying that the sidereal Age of Aquarius has already begun, even though with a Year 1 beginning for the Age of sidereal Pisces it won't start until 2149? Because, if there is an ugly side of the Age of Aquarius, it won't manifest until the Aquarian Age actually begins to take effect.

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Unread 11-09-2019, 09:58 AM
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The reason an Age occurs is because of the effect it has on everyone's Natal-chart at once. Some Charts go with it, some go against it. It takes at least one generation for the initial stage to show its aggregate effect.
Without trying to choose between all the various, proposed start-dates, they're close enough to get a general idea concerning when the new civilizations arose relative to the sidereal Ages. Turns out, it's in the middle area. For the Age of Pisces, things coalesced during the Renaissance. Going back to the first sidereal Age on record, it was the beginning of a true city-state culture, including a written language, in the Tigris-Euphrates valley, followed closely by the rise of the First Dynasty in ancient Egypt--that's the middle area of the Age of sidereal Taurus. By the middle portion of the Age of sidereal Aries, several warrior-cultures had developed, and were beginning to form rival empires.
So, I really don't think that the sidereal Age of Aquarius will manifest its true results for at least another 1000 years.
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Re: The Ugly Side of the Age of Aquarius

david, curious, do you feel signs don’t have shadows?
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david, curious, do you feel signs don’t have shadows?
Can you define "shadows"? Sounds like you mean faults versus virtues.
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Unread 11-09-2019, 08:22 PM
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Can you define "shadows"? Sounds like you mean faults versus virtues.
Faults would be one part of it. I’m also thinking of “stuff one might assign to 12th or 7th house” - externalizations, projections, invisible characteristics and costs.
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Re: The Ugly Side of the Age of Aquarius

Ah, yes, the Saturn side of Aquarius - traditionally speaking.

You get a whole bunch of Pluto / Saturn / Jupiter Cap and then a bunch more in Aqua, double Saturn trouble...
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Unread 11-09-2019, 10:25 PM
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Re: The Ugly Side of the Age of Aquarius

And as Rick Merlin would say: By The Way, I'm not saying Saturn - or Aquarius - or traditional Saturn ruled Aquarius is ugly - quite the opposite actually - BUT - I am saying it's the side of Aquarius that requires more WORK - and isn't always as appealing or aesthetically appeasing initially. Highly rewarding though. So, don't get it twisted, dude...

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Unread 11-10-2019, 12:06 AM
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Re: The Ugly Side of the Age of Aquarius

David, before we ever debate again, please read both Ray Grasse (Signs of the Times - ALL of it) and (regarding spiritually motivated violence) Arthur Koestler (Ghost in the Machine, at least the 3rd section). I could quote and quote and quote from them, but such would be wasted effort when the full texts and facts are laid out so well in these books (and so thoroughly and impressively referenced/documented) to read, explore, and contemplate. These "encyclopedic" texts express so much more fully and exactly what I am trying to convey.

Myself - admitting my paucity of accumulated knowledge vis-à-vis these amazing minds - I'm throwing in my cards. Game over for me.

But before I retire from what seems a gridlocked thread - which I wish I had never started - I would like to say that I am not distorting Pisces (whose energies* live inside me every day) in order to fit my premise. Every sign has its positive qualities and its dark shadows. Pisces/Neptune not only rules kindness, selflessness, beautiful ideals, and my favorite, fantasy, which helped me survive a very abusive upbringing and made me a very successful actor - but Pisces/Neptune also rules poisoning, "gaslighting", paranoia, and insanity. It most definitely has a dark side.

*I have Jupiter, Venus, Mars, and the NN in tight conjunction in the middle of Pisces, and my Piscean Venus is in mutual reception with my Libra Neptune, which is my most elevated planet and my only planet with no negative aspects - but my Neptune IS trine my Aquarian Sun (which is intercepted; i.e., Aquarius does not contact any house cusp, thus disempowered. So Neptune is its only positive outlet). Right now, tr. Neptune is making its 4th consecutive conjunction of my Piscean Mars, and it's soon to go stationary direct for a 5th consecutive exact conjunction (without ever leaving the conjunction orb) - which will finally end two years of oppressive lethargy, painful tragic loss and death, and frustrated, angry despair that has led to rage. Does that qualify that I know the nature of Pisces?

REGARDING VIOLENCE EXHIBITED IN THE AGES:

Arian violence is simply unmitigated, straightforward aggression and random brutality - the Roman Empire and the Coliseum should suffice as examples.

Very distinct from Arian violence, Capricornian violence usually invokes unquestioned formalized "laws" (which may be officially changed as expedience dictates), harsh confinement, neatly structured cruel punishment. The historical Catholic Church epitomizes to me the dark side of Capricorn (and significantly they chose the Winter Solstice, a sacred pagan day in Capricorn which marked the death of the Sun, as their Church's holiest of days, Xmas - with no evidence whatsoever that Jesus was born on that day - Jesus was NO Capricorn!).

With my assumption that this religion represented Capricornian negativity at its most significant in recent history in Europe (and not in the world, as would an astrological age) - it first officially burned Joan of Arc at the stake and then officially canonized her as St. Joan of Arc - as this seemed expedient at the time - Capricorn, always practical.

This Church ceremoniously burned the outspoken but forever honest and ingenious Giordano Bruno, but just formally imprisoned the fickle Galileo (who had only parroted Bruno's "blasphemous" heliocentric notions, but had retracted them in cowardice) in his sumptuous house for the rest of his life. And do you know that Galileo actually publicly mocked Kepler for suggesting that the Moon had an effect on the tides, calling this an "occult fancy"?! That assured his "safe" situation with the Church. What a self-serving a*ss! He played to the Capricornian "rules" very well.

Quite on the other hand, Piscean violence is instigated by intense paranoia and imagined desperation for self-survival. It can be irrational, out-of-control - wild hysteria that spreads like wildfire. (There's nothing Capricornian or Arian about it.) It's like a terrified animal fighting for its life, even when that is not the actual situation it is in.

After doing synastries for decades, I have never been wrong in observing that someone whose natal Neptune is square your natal Sun or Moon is likely to lie to you or betray you to save their own a*ss - very often quite unwillingly and regretfully, but nevertheless, very often with serious consequences for you. (See other threads on this very forum as to the negative sides of Pisces/Neptune.)

Just as it is suggested that I have distorted the nature of Pisces, I might suggest that the recent oppositions to my claims idealize Pisces far too much. Every sign has its fine qualities but also its dark side - and Pisces is not an exception.

And also, yes, due to what I believe to be the great overlap of the Ages, the ugly side of Aquarius has already begun - this is BRILLIANTLY demonstrated in Grasse's Signs of the Times. PLEASE READ IT.
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Unread 11-10-2019, 01:36 AM
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Re: The Ugly Side of the Age of Aquarius

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I can remember how much I struggled with The Ghost in the Machine at 20 despite feeling like it had all my answers, but there was no one to read it with, only references in other texts had pointed there. Just picked it up again to read as you directed, thanks.

Do you see any way to limit the negative potentiality of human-machine cognition and power in the coming years besides degrowth (which I don't see happening intentionally)?
Dear Passiflora,

I apologize for failing to respond to your question so long ago! Actually, all I can say is that I truly don't know what is going to happen. Looking at the state of the world right now, the outlook seems hopeless at this juncture in history. It seems we're in full Kali Yuga.

To my horror, "degrowth" actually appears to be occurring in the neocortex of a large portion of the populace, whereas growth seems to be exploding in the irrational limbic - without the growth of the instinctive inhibition that keeps the majority of other species from killing their own species, but with a terrifying growth of the very human curse of greed that is destroying our civilization and our environment.

Koestler declared our brains an evolutionary mistake doomed to self-destruction; however, his closing solutions seem very unlikely - even absurd - like a modified Brave New World with a reformulated soma. I can't imagine (or even want?) anything like that to happen. Despite Koestler's brilliant insights, his final conclusions fail.

One thing that I have been ruminating over is that Koestler never refers to compassion, which seems to be the essential "missing" link in the solution. To me, compassion is neither a quality of the rational or the irrational. It is a quality that was first embraced by more of humanity in the Age of Pisces, but alas, that is fading as the coldly rational Age of Aquarian Tech emerges - limbic brain still unevolved. (See Ray Grasse's Signs of the Times for the chilling possibilities of unenlightened Aquarianism.)

The one hope that I cling to is that more of us seem to be increasing the rational understanding of cooperation in the neocortex over the dangerous consequences of the limbic brain - and perhaps many of us have even evolved the instinctive pan-species inhibition (except for ants, rats, and us) against killing our own species - I feel that I have always had this instinctive inhibition.

But compassion. What of compassion now that Pisces - despite its potential dark sides - is leaving us - what will be left? At times, I feel that I don't want to live to find out.
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David, before we ever debate again, please read both Ray Grasse (Signs of the Times - ALL of it) and (regarding spiritually motivated violence) Arthur Koestler (Ghost in the Machine, at least the 3rd section). I could quote and quote and quote from them, but such would be wasted effort when the full texts and facts are laid out so well in these books (and so thoroughly and impressively referenced/documented) to read, explore, and contemplate. These "encyclopedic" texts express so much more fully and exactly what I am trying to convey.

Myself - admitting my paucity of accumulated knowledge vis-à-vis these amazing minds - I'm throwing in my cards. Game over for me.

But before I retire from what seems a gridlocked thread - which I wish I had never started - I would like to say that I am not distorting Pisces (whose energies* live inside me every day) in order to fit my premise. Every sign has its positive qualities and its dark shadows. Pisces/Neptune not only rules kindness, selflessness, beautiful ideals, and my favorite, fantasy, which helped me survive a very abusive upbringing and made me a very successful actor - but Pisces/Neptune also rules poisoning, "gaslighting", paranoia, and insanity. It most definitely has a dark side.

*I have Jupiter, Venus, Mars, and the NN in tight conjunction in the middle of Pisces, and my Piscean Venus is in mutual reception with my Libra Neptune, which is my most elevated planet and my only planet with no negative aspects - but my Neptune IS trine my Aquarian Sun (which is intercepted; i.e., Aquarius does not contact any house cusp, thus disempowered. So Neptune is its only positive outlet). Right now, tr. Neptune is making its 4th consecutive conjunction of my Piscean Mars, and it's soon to go stationary direct for a 5th consecutive exact conjunction (without ever leaving the conjunction orb) - which will finally end two years of oppressive lethargy, painful tragic loss and death, and frustrated, angry despair that has led to rage. Does that qualify that I know the nature of Pisces?

REGARDING VIOLENCE EXHIBITED IN THE AGES:

Arian violence is simply unmitigated, straightforward aggression and random brutality - the Roman Empire and the Coliseum should suffice as examples.

Very distinct from Arian violence, Capricornian violence usually invokes unquestioned formalized "laws" (which may be officially changed as expedience dictates), harsh confinement, neatly structured cruel punishment. The historical Catholic Church epitomizes to me the dark side of Capricorn (and significantly they chose the Winter Solstice, a sacred pagan day in Capricorn which marked the death of the Sun, as their Church's holiest of days, Xmas - with no evidence whatsoever that Jesus was born on that day - Jesus was NO Capricorn!).

With my assumption that this religion represented Capricornian negativity at its most significant in recent history in Europe (and not in the world, as would an astrological age) - it first officially burned Joan of Arc at the stake and then officially canonized her as St. Joan of Arc - as this seemed expedient at the time - Capricorn, always practical.

This Church ceremoniously burned the outspoken but forever honest and ingenious Giordano Bruno, but just formally imprisoned the fickle Galileo (who had only parroted Bruno's "blasphemous" heliocentric notions, but had retracted them in cowardice) in his sumptuous house for the rest of his life. And do you know that Galileo actually publicly mocked Kepler for suggesting that the Moon had an effect on the tides, calling this an "occult fancy"?! That assured his "safe" situation with the Church. What a self-serving a*ss! He played to the Capricornian "rules" very well.

Quite on the other hand, Piscean violence is instigated by intense paranoia and imagined desperation for self-survival. It can be irrational, out-of-control - wild hysteria that spreads like wildfire. (There's nothing Capricornian or Arian about it.) It's like a terrified animal fighting for its life, even when that is not the actual situation it is in.

After doing synastries for decades, I have never been wrong in observing that someone whose natal Neptune is square your natal Sun or Moon is likely to lie to you or betray you to save their own a*ss - very often quite unwillingly and regretfully, but nevertheless, very often with serious consequences for you. (See other threads on this very forum as to the negative sides of Pisces/Neptune.)

Just as it is suggested that I have distorted the nature of Pisces, I might suggest that the recent oppositions to my claims idealize Pisces far too much. Every sign has its fine qualities but also its dark side - and Pisces is not an exception.

And also, yes, due to what I believe to be the great overlap of the Ages, the ugly side of Aquarius has already begun - this is BRILLIANTLY demonstrated in Grasse's Signs of the Times. PLEASE READ IT.
Well, it looks like you're using the constellations instead of the equal sidereal Signs, which I'm using. So, the overlap you refer to is apparently specific to only those of Pisces and Aquarius, whereas I'm talking about a regular pattern of overlapping Signs, using a carefully located Age Window, of one Sign's length. This means a Convergence of the Age Window with a Sign, at the beginning of the Age of the next Sign in the order of Age Window movement.
I've recently realized that the resistance to the very concept of tropical Ages is due to the desire of tropicalists to maintain a connection to the zodiacal constellations, even though they don't register in an actual, tropical Chart. I don't see the Ages as anything other than a Chart-influence, with the result known as an "Age" being simply the aggregate effect of having the Age-indicator in everyone's Chart in the same Sign for so many centuries.
I'm glad you see the Capricornian nature of the early Roman Catholic Church. But, that was just the first stage of the tropical Age of Capricorn. Now, it's entered its final stage as One World Capitalism, complete with 10 economic Trade Zones, appropriate for the Age of the 10th tropical Sign, and signified by the motto, E Pluribus Unum. The number 10 converts to 1, numerologically (1+0=1).
Capitalism has taken over most of the planet, commensurate with its being the result of an Age, and I don't see Capitalism as either Piscean or Aquarian. But it does fit in with Capricorn. [IMO]

I'm sorry you regret starting the thread. When it comes to the power of the Astrological Ages, we're in full agreement.

Last edited by david starling; 11-10-2019 at 05:56 AM.
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Unread 11-10-2019, 06:11 AM
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Smile Re: The Ugly Side of the Age of Aquarius

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Originally Posted by passiflora View Post
Faults would be one part of it. I’m also thinking of “stuff one might assign to 12th or 7th house” - externalizations, projections, invisible characteristics and costs.
Pisces isn't structured enough to account for the powerful, organized Church and State, or the Capitalistic economic system of this Age. It's not especially time or money oriented. Like water, it takes the path of least resistance and goes with the flow. Not normally confrontational or competitive. Not technologically oriented either, unlike Capricorn.
In lieu of an Age of tropical Capricorn, the onus has to fall on the Sign of the next Age, Aquarius. But, Capricorn's the Goat.
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  #91  
Unread 11-10-2019, 07:06 AM
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Smile Re: The Ugly Side of the Age of Aquarius

I found a Ray Grasse lecture on the Great Ages on YouTube:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=53zbfabcIME
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  #92  
Unread 11-10-2019, 09:02 AM
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Smile Re: The Ugly Side of the Age of Aquarius

There's always been violence associated with organized religions. You don't need an Age of Pisces to account for that. There have always been devout believers in religious doctrine as well. What's different about this Age is the devout belief in materialistic science. Modern science is the religion-substitute for the tropical, Earth-sign Age of Capricorn, now culminating.

Tropical, Cardinal-sign Ages show their true results at the end, because they're innovative, and tradition and societal inertia hold them back. This occurred between c.3500 and 3100 B.C.E. in the Tigris-Euphrates region, at the end of the tropical Age of Cardinal-sign Libra, which began c.4800 B.C.E. The innovations were astounding, just as they are now, at the end of the Age of Cardinal-sign Capricorn. Then, with the resistance overcome, the Fixed-sign Age shows nearly immediate results, and uses the Cardinal-sign innovations for its own purposes. That hasn't happened yet in case of the tropical Aquarian Age. Astrologers are mistaking the mundane effects of the now-culminating tropical Age of Capricorn, for the effects of the yet-to-occur Age of tropical Aquarius, which should be good.

Last edited by david starling; 11-10-2019 at 09:28 AM.
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  #93  
Unread 11-10-2019, 09:27 AM
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Smile Re: The Ugly Side of the Age of Aquarius

I find myself agreeing with most of what Ray Grasse says in his video about the sidereal Ages. I've ordered his book, Signs of the Times.
Thanks Ancar, for alerting me to him.

Last edited by david starling; 11-10-2019 at 09:31 AM.
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Unread 11-10-2019, 10:59 AM
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Smile Re: The Ugly Side of the Age of Aquarius

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Faults would be one part of it. I’m also thinking of “stuff one might assign to 12th or 7th house” - externalizations, projections, invisible characteristics and costs.
Pisces has been labeled the "I Believe" Sign. But, it's not WHAT you believe that's important , it's Belief itself. I really don't think an Age of Pisces would be an Age of bigotry. BIgamy maybe, but not bigotry.
I would say scapegoating is a result of the tropical Age of the Goat. It's not just anger that some believe differently. There's a materialistic side to it, involving seizing property from the victims of prejudice.

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Unread 11-10-2019, 08:04 PM
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Re: The Ugly Side of the Age of Aquarius

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Dear Passiflora,

I apologize for failing to respond to your question so long ago! Actually, all I can say is that I truly don't know what is going to happen. Looking at the state of the world right now, the outlook seems hopeless at this juncture in history. It seems we're in full Kali Yuga.

To my horror, "degrowth" actually appears to be occurring in the neocortex of a large portion of the populace, whereas growth seems to be exploding in the irrational limbic - without the growth of the instinctive inhibition that keeps the majority of other species from killing their own species, but with a terrifying growth of the very human curse of greed that is destroying our civilization and our environment.

Koestler declared our brains an evolutionary mistake doomed to self-destruction; however, his closing solutions seem very unlikely - even absurd - like a modified Brave New World with a reformulated soma. I can't imagine (or even want?) anything like that to happen. Despite Koestler's brilliant insights, his final conclusions fail.

One thing that I have been ruminating over is that Koestler never refers to compassion, which seems to be the essential "missing" link in the solution. To me, compassion is neither a quality of the rational or the irrational. It is a quality that was first embraced by more of humanity in the Age of Pisces, but alas, that is fading as the coldly rational Age of Aquarian Tech emerges - limbic brain still unevolved. (See Ray Grasse's Signs of the Times for the chilling possibilities of unenlightened Aquarianism.)

The one hope that I cling to is that more of us seem to be increasing the rational understanding of cooperation in the neocortex over the dangerous consequences of the limbic brain - and perhaps many of us have even evolved the instinctive pan-species inhibition (except for ants, rats, and us) against killing our own species - I feel that I have always had this instinctive inhibition.

But compassion. What of compassion now that Pisces - despite its potential dark sides - is leaving us - what will be left? At times, I feel that I don't want to live to find out.
Ok, you went a different direction with the word 'degrowth' which is also fruitful. That word to me represents a constraint on the reach of technological intelligence. It means limiting our extractive reach into history - the reach to consume materials that took millions of years to develop into the state we now exploit as energy (oil, coal) - in order to limit our exploitative tendencies as a species.

I don't see another way to check the terrible failures of human rationality besides severely limiting the philosophies and institutions that make its expansion possible.

I agree with David that tropical Ages must exist, and am enjoying your discussion as he's thought through them pretty well. It gives me comfort to think of this as a tropical Age of Capricorn. At the same time, I'm not sold on the promise of an Aquarian Age, either sidereal or tropical. I just don't have a lot of evidence of communities that have existed without Saturnine codes of conduct and therefore without transgressors, real or imagined, and without scapegoats. Actually I'm pretty sure some existed, but were either decimated or assimilated by communities that did lean on scapegoating technologies of consciousness to create armies.

I do have some hopes for Aquarius as the water bearer (hopes nurtured for no reason other than general protectiveness). It seems that it's not limbic excess that's the problem - it's limbic excess coupled with access to exploitative institutions and technologies, which are the product of rationality unconcerned with planetary survival. I can only see an Aquarian age heightening that destructive belief in our own rationality - the kind of rationality that would protect the earth only as a "resource" without honoring it and its creatures and systems in their own right.
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Unread 11-11-2019, 01:01 AM
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Smile Re: The Ugly Side of the Age of Aquarius

There's an occult dimension to Saturn. So, regarding the Age of Capricorn, I feel justified in considering the numerology associated with the Signs, as well as Modality and Element.
A Cardinal-sign begins each tropical Season, and heat initiates alchemical reactions, so I view Cardinal-Fire as the first Sign--not necessarily because it's the first Sign of the Spring season in the Northern hemisphere, although that accentuates it.

That makes Capricorn the 10th Sign, and one correlation involving these tropical Ages is that the Age of the 10th Sign inspired the base-ten decimal system, which is used in today's numerology: 10 becomes 1+0=1, meaning 10 converts numerologically to 1. Translating that into astrology, Cardinal-Earth, which is about Matter, converts instantly into Cardinal-Fire, which is about Energy. And, Matter converted instantly to Energy=Explosives. This Age has manifested the use of explosives, beginning with gunpowder, NOT something the sidereal Age of Pisces would manifest. Pisces can and does explode temporarily into anger, which can involve violence. But, it's emotional, and it quickly passes, and is usually cause for regret and apologies.

Capricorn is about the Innovative (Cardinal), Use (keyword), of Matter (Earth-sign's focus), to produce a planned result on a consistent basis. This quality makes it the supreme technological Sign, and it's no surprise that we now have new, energy-and-time-based inventions, unique to this Age, compared to the inventions which began in the previous Seasonal quadrant of Ages with the Cardinal-sign Age of Libra, most notably written language.

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  #97  
Unread 11-11-2019, 01:46 AM
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Smile Re: The Ugly Side of the Age of Aquarius

The way explosives have been used, differentiates Capricorn from Saturn. According to my research Capricorn was associated in ancient Sumeria with the benevolent use of inventiveness, especially in the case of civilization-building.
A perfect example of this differentiation is the original intention of Alfred Nobel regarding his discovery of dynamite, most powerful explosive yet produced in his time.
It was supposed to be for building tunnels, bridges, roads, and for mining. He came up with the Nobel Peace Prize due to his shock and horror over it's use in warfare. The airplane was also originally intended for peaceful use. Einstein was horrified that his work in Physics, specifically E=MCsquared (notice the correlation to the Capricornian conversion of Matter into Energy, expressed numerologically as 1+0=1), was actually used in warfare.
The Saturn/Mars axis ruling the Age spoils nearly every innovation Capricorn inspires to make the world a better place to live, by inspiring the morally-challenged to use them in a way that makes things worse. That includes the supposedly beneficial Medical, Pharmaceutical and Petrochemical industries.

Last edited by david starling; 11-11-2019 at 02:10 AM.
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  #98  
Unread 11-11-2019, 08:10 AM
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Unhappy Re: The Ugly Side of the Age of Aquarius

Even my Aqua Moon can't stem my Piscean sorrow when a loved one dies.
It's only Death can break my heart.
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Unread 11-11-2019, 10:42 AM
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Re: The Ugly Side of the Age of Aquarius

I think we've been in the Age of Aquarius for some while now - look at all the technology that's now invasive in our lives, the invisible radiation and frequencies that we're now surrounded by. The use of radiation and even lasers in surgery. The fact that everyone can now communicate with practically anyone else on the planet. A text can wing its way in a few seconds across oceans and continents. People are no longer clustering in cosy Piscean communities where caring was the norm, they are connecting over the wifi waves to people they will never meet, according to an affinity of interests - just as easily switched off as on, with only a tenuous mental connection.

And it's not just Aquarius, it's the entire fixed cross that's now coming into play. Look at the selfie-taking youngsters spending hours putting on their make-up and showing themselves off on instagram, look at how everyone can have their own youtube channel and display their creations (good and bad) - that's the Leo end of the axis.

Look at the rampant materialism of Taurus, the way that 'money speaks' and banksters rule the world, the longing in many to have all the material things and the glamorous homes that celebrities show us they have.

Look at the way sex for many young people has become the first way in which they speak to each other with sexting now the norm followed by Tinder hook-ups which also sometimes result in death to the woman as she recklessly goes home with a stranger who happens to be a psychopath. Look at the over-sexualisation of society caused by easy, mass access to ****, and the warping of young people's minds through watching it as to how sex 'ought to be'. That's Scorpio.

The only upside is that now Uranus has transited into Taurus, suddenly the perilous state of the natural world is being talked about. 5G is being challenged. Over-consumption and the damage to the environment from that new pair of jeans is being highlighted. People are stepping back from posting every detail of their lives on their facebook pages as the insidious nature of data-collecting by Big Data has become obvious.

We can only hope that in this transition of Uranus to the fixed axis, we have a window of opportunity to set a new course.
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  #100  
Unread 11-11-2019, 02:24 PM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: The Ugly Side of the Age of Aquarius

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I think we've been in the Age of Aquarius for some while now - look at all the technology that's now invasive in our lives, the invisible radiation and frequencies that we're now surrounded by. The use of radiation and even lasers in surgery. The fact that everyone can now communicate with practically anyone else on the planet. A text can wing its way in a few seconds across oceans and continents. People are no longer clustering in cosy Piscean communities where caring was the norm, they are connecting over the wifi waves to people they will never meet, according to an affinity of interests - just as easily switched off as on, with only a tenuous mental connection.

And it's not just Aquarius, it's the entire fixed cross that's now coming into play. Look at the selfie-taking youngsters spending hours putting on their make-up and showing themselves off on instagram, look at how everyone can have their own youtube channel and display their creations (good and bad) - that's the Leo end of the axis.

Look at the rampant materialism of Taurus, the way that 'money speaks' and banksters rule the world, the longing in many to have all the material things and the glamorous homes that celebrities show us they have.

Look at the way sex for many young people has become the first way in which they speak to each other with sexting now the norm followed by Tinder hook-ups which also sometimes result in death to the woman as she recklessly goes home with a stranger who happens to be a psychopath. Look at the over-sexualisation of society caused by easy, mass access to ****, and the warping of young people's minds through watching it as to how sex 'ought to be'. That's Scorpio.

The only upside is that now Uranus has transited into Taurus, suddenly the perilous state of the natural world is being talked about. 5G is being challenged. Over-consumption and the damage to the environment from that new pair of jeans is being highlighted. People are stepping back from posting every detail of their lives on their facebook pages as the insidious nature of data-collecting by Big Data has become obvious.

We can only hope that in this transition of Uranus to the fixed axis, we have a window of opportunity to set a new course.
Ancar, if you're still watching, notice the total disregard for my carefully written posts concerning the tropical Age of Capricorn, which you summarily dismissed as well. That's over 40 years of study and research completely ignored! But, I'm not discouraged. I'll just keep "speaking my truth", just as you should continue speaking yours. [IMO]

Totally agree with the last sentence though!

Last edited by david starling; 11-11-2019 at 02:30 PM.
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