Sun..Saturn...which one represents the father?

Nereida · Jan 14, 2011

Hello! I've recently started being interested in astrology and there is are few things (among others :biggrin:

) which are pretty confusing to me.

1)First of all, in a natal chart, who is the father? Sun or Saturn?

2)I've read somewhere that a Saturn Rx can represent an unknown father. I've also read that in a woman chart, afflicted Sun means she has/had a difficult relationship with her father and she has the tendency to develop difficult relationship with men, in general.What do you think about that?

3)What about a foster father? where to look for this kind of parent?

4)I' ve also read that in general the 4th house represents the mother and the 10th the father. For a female Mars Rx in the 10th house means her father can be aggressive or means the she can concentrate her aggressiveness towards her father?

I would be really grateful if you would help me :smile:

waybread · Jan 14, 2011

Technically you would look at Saturn for a night birth and the sun for a day birth. Probably it makes sense to consider both. Also, don't overlook the MC/IC axis. It gets a bit complicated to delineate, because the father could be one or the other depending upon whether it is a day or night birth, and the individual is a man or a woman. If the father-child relationship is really dysfunctional, I would also look at sun-Pluto contacts.

eternalautumn · Jan 15, 2011

Look at the ruler of the 4th house for father, and 10th house ruler for mother. Traditionally, the 4th house is both parents, but when you need to look at them separately, the mother goes to the 10th, the seventh house from the 4th. :smile:

Claire19 · Jan 15, 2011

Nereida said:
Hello! I've recently started being interested in astrology and there is are few things (among others) which are pretty confusing to me.

1)First of all, in a natal chart, who is the father? Sun or Saturn?

2)I've read somewhere that a Saturn Rx can represent an unknown father. I've also read that in a woman chart, afflicted Sun means she has/had a difficult relationship with her father and she has the tendency to develop difficult relationship with men, in general.What do you think about that?

3)What about a foster father? where to look for this kind of parent?

4)I' ve also read that in general the 4th house represents the mother and the 10th the father. For a female Mars Rx in the 10th house means her father can be aggressive or means the she can concentrate her aggressiveness towards her father?

I would be really grateful if you would help me

Always a good idea to load the natal chart in question. We are all different and will have different play outs of the aspects.
In general the 10th represents the father or the one with career and public life. Sun and Saturn do represent the male figures in our lives.
Foster father can be in the 11th house or more conversely you will be in his 11th house. The 4th house represents the family and domestic situation in general and the Moon is the mother....I dont know about retrogrades. I rather think their energies are just slower and seems to be karmic.
I think any unknown circumstances are Neptune aspects or with the 12th house......I do agree that our SUn aspects and our relationship with the father does impact on general male relationships. But once you are aware of the pitfalls you can manage them. Saturn is really the authority figure whereas the Sun is the guide, teacher, playmate even and protector of children.....there is a difference.

Without your individual chart, cant comment more.
:happy:

astrologer50 · Jan 17, 2011

Welcome to forum,

We are all visual people and need to see charts please. Remember planets are modified by sign, where they express are houses and how they express are *aspects*

Welcome to the World of Astrology!
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14561

Re: Need some education: Which charts to use when?
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17514

Beginning to Study Astrology
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=154469&postcount=10
http://www.soulhealing.com/tutorialwest.htm
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/learn-astrology/astrology-glyphs.php

How to attach a chart as thumbnail
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12126

what members like to see in a thread – help forum
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25930

at the top of this forum? It has some great explanations, links etc. At the top of every forum there are lots of ‘stickys’ which explain matters in that forum, along with guidelines & tips

There is a 'plethora' of information on AW, espec in the 'stickys' at the top of every forum, our Education forum and Recommendations forum to. Plus we have a good search feature,[but not foolproof obviously, so try here first] bit like google using keywords – initially select advanced and try just selecting 'titles' rather than posts or you'll get too many threads. If this doesn’t get results then try google

What Astrology Can and Can Not Do
http://www.ofspirit.com/susanmiller1.htm
http://www.cafeastrology.com/articles/whatastrologycandoforyou.html

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=234549&postcount=7
Perhaps you should read this thread entitled: astrology predicts meanings, not events
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17546&page=2

1)First of all, in a natal chart, who is the father? Sun or Saturn?

2)I've read somewhere that a Saturn Rx can represent an unknown father. I've also read that in a woman chart, afflicted Sun means she has/had a difficult relationship with her father and she has the tendency to develop difficult relationship with men, in general.What do you think about that?

(1) could be both (2) Saturn rx can suggest that father was missing, absent or simply didn't provide enough structure, discipline in early formative years. Saturn aspects also suggest how you relate to men, authority figures, not just father....

Basic astrology
Now basically your sun sign is your 'core beliefs, values, ego' and Asc is your physical body, mode of expression and mask and persona that we all wear and hide behind, but definitely not what's going on underneath. What's going on underneath is your Sun sign. Moon sign, house placements and aspects describe your emotional and intuitive responses, also describes your view of your mother, as saturn describes your father by sign and house position.

So, think of a glass milk bottle the bottle is your Asc and your sun the milk, but the milk still has to 'come out' through the glass neck of the milk bottle....

Now aspects within a natal chart represent 'facets' of our personality, because we are all multifaceted beings. What these do is 'break down and compartmentalise' these facets into smaller bite size chunks. This does take quite a lot of self analysis and objectivity to 'see yourself' and why you do certain things and behave in certain ways. Actually it can be quite good therapy...

Remember back to your school days an opposition is 180', square 90', trine 120', and sextile 60' Now challenged aspects are conj (depending on the planets, cos some like each other and some really don't) squares and oppositions. Easy aspects are conj (if the planets get along) eg: Jupiter conj Moon, sextile and trine. Quincunx is inbetween (depending on the planets) causes health strains and unresolved or hard to balance planets/energies.

Retrograde planets
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22923
http://astrology.findyourfate.com/astrology-retrograde.htm
http://www.north-node.com/astrology-tutorials/retrogrades
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/retrogradeplanets.htm
http://www.north-node.com/astrology-tutorials/retrogrades
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5796&postcount=8
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5861&postcount=10
Saturn Retrograde
* feels inside that they're never good enough
* indulgent outward behavior may mask inner feelings of inadequacy
* hides fears
Natal chart aspects
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/sunaspects.html
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects2.html
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/planetsaspectsastrology.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_aspect
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_aspect_e.htm
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/aspectsreference.htm
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/aspectssun.htm
http://astrologynotes.org/wiki/Sun_aspects
http://www.astrologyindepth.com/Special

refixindex/category:

aquarianmoon · Jan 17, 2011

Each planet and part of the horoscope has multiple layers. I'm sure the Sun and Saturn could each stand for the father. I have the Sun unaspected in the 8th house and I've had a few astrologers describe this as a father who wasn't there - and it's true, I grew up in New Zealand away from my father in the UK.

I also have Saturn conjunct the ascendant, but I don't know how to interpret this re daddy issues. :sideways:

Claire19 · Jan 17, 2011

eternalautumn said:
Look at the ruler of the 4th house for father, and 10th house ruler for mother. Traditionally, the 4th house is both parents, but when you need to look at them separately, the mother goes to the 10th, the seventh house from the 4th.

I dont agree, it is the 4th house for the mother or the nurturer. The 10th house is the authoritarian parent who has a career and a public life an usually the father. THe boss. 4th house is our domestic conditions and hereditary traits. seventh from the fourth is mother's partner. i.e. father or stepfather.

Claire19 · Jan 17, 2011

aquarianmoon said:
Each planet and part of the horoscope has multiple layers. I'm sure the Sun and Saturn could each stand for the father. I have the Sun unaspected in the 8th house and I've had a few astrologers describe this as a father who wasn't there - and it's true, I grew up in New Zealand away from my father in the UK.

I also have Saturn conjunct the ascendant, but I don't know how to interpret this re daddy issues.

That is interesting. Sun in the 8th is usually a secret father rather, it could indicate that the father in the UK was not your biological father. In the 8th it is more likely that he actually had passed over. Would have to see the whole chart.

aquarianmoon · Jan 17, 2011

Claire19 said:
That is interesting. Sun in the 8th is usually a secret father rather, it could indicate that the father in the UK was not your biological father. In the 8th it is more likely that he actually had passed over. Would have to see the whole chart.

My chart should be listed in my signature. There is no doubt about him being my biological father (we look similar), but there is a lot of detachment there. It's like there was a big emotional death when I moved away.. I've seen him 4 times in the last 15 years.

ariana · Mar 10, 2011

Claire19 said:
I dont agree, it is the 4th house for the mother or the nurturer. The 10th house is the authoritarian parent who has a career and a public life an usually the father. THe boss. 4th house is our domestic conditions and hereditary traits. seventh from the fourth is mother's partner. i.e. father or stepfather.

my mother was the boos in my life, the one who weared the pants in the house. guess i have her sun sign in my Mc, aries, plus i've got the moon there too. and im cancer.
my father, instead was more in his job. somehow my mother took all the attention, while my father was on a second place, but the nurturing emotinal side i've recived from my father, even if just a little bit, was priceless.
i belive house 4 and 10 stands out for whichever the father has that function in the childs life. 4 for a more domestic and nurturing side, and 10 for the most authoritarian and boss parent.
and in my case, Sun will stand out more for the father function. while saturn it recived more of my mother energy (its conjunct mars) and my mother is sun, moon, jupiter and mercury in aries.

ariana · Mar 10, 2011

here is my chart by the way, so you can see

annette · Mar 10, 2011

I'm so contrary. But believe traditionally the tenth house does represent the mother and the fourth the father. Today it seems the tenth is the nourisher?to me the fourth house would nourish the tenth be public parent.

astrologer50 · Mar 10, 2011

ariana said:
here is my chart by the way, so you can see

waybread · Mar 10, 2011

In traditional astrology the 4th house represents the father. The rationale here is that the 4th is the house of one's home and ancestry. In most societies during western astrology's development, genealogy was traced through the father. We still find this in the West, where babies take on the surname of the father; and until ca. 1970 married women usually took on the surnames of their husbands.

Then in a derived house system, the 7th is the house of marriage and one's spouse. The 7th house from the 4th is the 10th house: therefore, if the 4th is the father the 10th would be the mother.

I don't think the ancient traditional astrologers admitted that there might be matriarchies.

A good book on houses in the history of astrology is Deborah Houlding, The Houses: Temples of the Sky.

fushiafairy · Mar 10, 2011

Today families are exist in many different ways. Stepparents, single parents, parents of the same gender. I saw a show with one mom and 2 dads all living together(open marriage). It worked for them great.

My 4th house represents my mother and father equally. My 10th house also represents both of them. Most of the parenting was done by mom :disciplinarian, nurturerer, public parent.

My sun and saturn are conjunct in cancer in the 11th....so either way.

ariana · Mar 11, 2011

annette said:
I'm so contrary. But believe traditionally the tenth house does represent the mother and the fourth the father. Today it seems the tenth is the nourisher?to me the fourth house would nourish the tenth be public parent.

thats right. to me the nourisher emotionally, how i percived, was my father, the fourth. instead to me my mother image came as the public one, the boss, the one who got me "out" to the world. actually the image i have of her is a bit "agressive" she is aries, so her behaviour was to much for me. like she was the one pushing me "out" to fight the outer world

jeje. instead my father just standed by me, providing me the suport my mother didnt gave me. so the images i have of them are the other side

Meluzina · May 20, 2019

Well, I have read in Hades that boyz have their father in 4th and mother in 10th whereas gals have mother in 4th and father in 10th.

Sun..Saturn...which one represents the father?

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