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  #1  
Unread 03-04-2014, 11:18 PM
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Astrology Shame

I've just had a rough couple of hours - I recently started studying for a Vedic Astrology diploma which I'm very excited about AND I got very excited about this new method of rectifiying birthtimes I found here on the forum (JUPITERASC's post) and I tried it out on myself, my ex (who's sweet and known about what I'm into for a while).

THEN I tried it out on facebook on two people I hadn't told prior that I was into astrology ... and it was off putting :-( . And other's view of mysticism, especially when it feels like a personal judgment, still gets this reaction out of me. Truth be told I just want to love everybody and not care what they believe, but the latter isn't happening. Guess I've still got some astrology shame to heal.

It goes deeper though, it's a much older personal shame of my wants and needs being too other-worldly, too strange, too philosophical, too unattainable, too cray, I should be feared. It's the shame of being naive. That my opinions don't matter. Down to Earth and practical is safe but once they verge on/ stray to what cannot be proven or seen...THEY'RE USELESS!!

I wanted to share how I feel in this moment with this lovely community because this is one of the places I can come to and know that I am among other mistically-minded people :-). Or at least other open-minded people and where they are grumpy are sometimes smacked back into place ;-D

If you read this, and you're in the dark about being on this forum, about being so lost and alone and ashamed of the fact that you're turning to seemingly unfamiliar territory to replenish yourself, know that you are not alone. We are simply building anew.

Love to you all <3

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Unread 03-04-2014, 11:39 PM
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Re: Astrology Shame

Always nice to know someone who is studying for astrology at a professional level. . I feel your pain. I've had my moments elsewhere on another forum where I e-socialise. I've experienced the "astrology shame" you speak of as well. Stay strong, and keep persevering. The way I look at it, is that if we make mistakes we can use them as an opportunity to learn. I've learnt to keep my astrology discussions and readings here at AW and here alone. Never elsewhere.

Interesting post.
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Unread 03-05-2014, 07:10 AM
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the best way to handle it is to make lots of new friends with serious interest in astrology as well. it's the best remedy. if astrology makes you happy the worst feeling is being in the company of someone that wants to debate its validity. so not worth the energy or the time.
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  #4  
Unread 03-05-2014, 01:41 PM
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Re: Astrology Shame

The sad thing its not shame on us, its the discovery of bigotry in others. I know people who are my friends but who suddenly treat me like a piece of cr@p because I stepped on one of their bigotry modes by being a professional astrologer.

Its so so sad.

Astrology is a kind of world view. If they have the materialistic scientism(nor science mind you) religion world view, then they may be antagonistic to astrology. Except astrology is older than scientism, older than science itself, older than even religion. Astrology very clearly states that there is a system of process outside of the material, and specifies how it can be perceived. This is very antagonistic to this world view. It even get on some of the fundamentalist Spirit world views because it purports to know what is in the Mind of God, by saying that it knows how God talks to ITSELF.

So astrology is part of the Spiritual World View. So really an attack on astrology is an attack on religious thought too.

I have a six page description of the place of astrology in the Materialistic World View vs the Spiritual World View, and would be happy to send it to you if you wish. Its at the front of my giant tome on The Seven Quotients of Counseling Astrology

Last edited by Zarathu; 03-05-2014 at 05:11 PM.
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  #5  
Unread 03-05-2014, 03:20 PM
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Re: Astrology Shame

I've told very few people about my astrology work, most people are simply not ready for that type of spiritual advancement, especially with the negative view astrology has because of the entertainment columns in the newspaper. There is no shame in it except for them. You must have been punished in a previous life for it, so just accept it and let it go, its not important any more. I never bring up astrology to anyone unless they mention engaging in some sort of metaphysical work first, or only with people I've known a long time and they have entrusted me with their own secrets or taboos in the past. Trying to speak astrology to people who aren't ready for that type of growth is like trying to teach a pig to sing - it only annoys you and the pig.
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Unread 03-05-2014, 03:57 PM
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Re: Astrology Shame

Still Confused, thanks for this thread and your opening post. Really wonderful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
I have a six page description of the place of astrology in the Materialistic World View vs the Spiritual World View, and would be happy to send it to you if you wish. Its at the from of my giant tome on The Seven Quotients of Counseling Astrology
Hey Z,
Could you PM that to me, too? Or even better, post it online somewhere? On your Website???
Though, as I type that, I realize you might be saving the pieces of the tome for the actual publication date. Which, by the way, I'm looking forward to.


Now, back to Astro-Shame.
I am more ashamed of my astro-shame than shamed for being interested in astrology itself. I'm more ashamed of myself for not being genuine and open about it. As a younger man I very much was. I thought it was interesting and illuminating to everybody - whether they admitted it or not. Though, looking back, I realize I spent my youth in a part of the world relatively open to "non-traditional worldviews" (though, as per Zarathu again, the great age of astrology makes a mockery of any notion of it as "New Age" or "non-traditional).
At the point I began to verge seriously on an academic career I steadily, even unconsciously, dropped looking at the world through the language of astrology in favour of more... I'm not sure, let's call them "modern/rational" views (not quite right, and it implies an irrationality to astrology which clearly isn't entirely right. But "more commonly-held" or "widely-held" views isn't right either, because the general populace doesn't quite understand the world in the same way either).
At the same time, my innate Christian sentiments and religiosity came rising to fore. They were there from the start, but as astrology dropped away they swooped in and filled that vacuum. St. Augustine would be happy for me. But it does mean even less people I can be frank with about all my metaphysical feelings and beliefs. Many fellow Christians will reject astrology, many fellow astrologers will find fault in Christianity (even my wild breed of it) and raw materialists - advocates to the sort of scientism Zarathu mentioned - see all of it as delusion.
Meanwhile, my life is nothing but richer for it.

Last edited by Birch Dragon; 03-05-2014 at 03:59 PM.
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Unread 03-05-2014, 04:30 PM
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Re: Astrology Shame

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Originally Posted by Birch Dragon View Post
At the same time, my innate Christian sentiments and religiosity came rising to fore. They were there from the start, but as astrology dropped away they swooped in and filled that vacuum. St. Augustine would be happy for me. But it does mean even less people I can be frank with about all my metaphysical feelings and beliefs. Many fellow Christians will reject astrology, many fellow astrologers will find fault in Christianity (even my wild breed of it) and raw materialists - advocates to the sort of scientism Zarathu mentioned - see all of it as delusion.
Meanwhile, my life is nothing but richer for it.
Look at it this way. While other people are sitting on the couch watching the boob tube, you have scaled a virgin mountain peak and are taking in the view from upon high for the first time. Let the boobs sit at home. Eventually you will run into another mountain climber. Not everyone can climb mountains. Anybody can watch the boob tube.
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Unread 03-05-2014, 06:06 PM
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Re: Astrology Shame

Hey,
don't you worry, dear. I think they're like children. It's ok if someone doesn't believe in astrology, but when they don't accept you for your passion... Well, it's just immature. My dearest friend is totally Atheist and accept my hobby. And one of my friends, who doesn't believe it too, gave me his birth details so I can learn! He even lets me ask what is happening during transits to his natal planets.

And don't get me wrong - I don't find 'immaturity' bad, it's people's choice if they prefer to talk with an astrologist or not. It's like... children can do some nasty things, right? They just aren't aware it's something inappropriate, because they're on some point of their development. They don't get it even if you tell them 'you shouldn't do it, it's wrong'. As they grow up, they start to understand.
And some just need more time. Some will never learn... during this lifetime. (; You don't get sad or mad when kid does something improper, do you?
You can't change them, but you can kind of accept things the way they are. Just do what you should do, don't let anyone make you down.

Smile, Hunny!

Ps. Remember to defend yourself when needed! It's good to show other people you find something morally wrong.
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  #9  
Unread 03-05-2014, 06:36 PM
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Re: Astrology Shame

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Originally Posted by mdinaz View Post
Look at it this way. While other people are sitting on the couch watching the boob tube, you have scaled a virgin mountain peak and are taking in the view from upon high for the first time. Let the boobs sit at home. Eventually you will run into another mountain climber. Not everyone can climb mountains. Anybody can watch the boob tube.
Hey mdinaz. Thanks for the response. I really appreciate it, and imagine there's probably a lot of wisdom in it. But I have to admit I swim in a bit of a different conceptual ocean. The older I get the more I have, consciously, a pretty corporate view of humanity ("corporate in the sense of "all of one body" and not "multinational corporations." ) I tend to think when it comes to moral and spiritual progress we're ultimately bound in this together. Which isn't to say I don't believe in leaders and a progressive vanguard. And I'm very aware of our own individuality, for whatever it's worth (I'm a freakin' Aries, after all!). But I also can't deny that everything I am in heart, body and mind is ultimately framed within - and so to a large degree bound in - the frameworks clung to by the wider human family. I can only think within the boundaries of the human language(s) I've learned - and I'd include astrology in that camp. I can only enact my ideas and strivings - only reach for spiritual progress - in society, which currently is (broadly speaking) capitalist, industrial, increasingly technologically powerful and ecologically destructive, etc.
Which isn't to say I don't believe n the miraculous revelation, beyond the human understanding of the moment, erupting into our lives. I do. But then, as limited human beings, I think we struggle to understand it, to keep the revelation from slipping away, within our limited, shared containers of understanding.
And of course there's the time-honored tradition of checking out of society, guru-on-a-mountain-like, to focus entirely on inner space. I recognize that path --- And that actually sounds really attractive to me. But I guess I realize I'm just not there. Thinking a lot about my natal lately backs up that this more corporate view is exactly how I, at least, should be thinking about moral and spiritual progress.
It's probably why I'm a teacher by trade. I naively want to see everybody strive to push themselves up.
That said, I'm defeating myself here, aren't I? I've just given an argument for being loud and proud about astrology. Engaging with others = sharing important beliefs. And hence, I suppose, why I mostly feel shame for my astro-shame, rather than shame about astrology itself...

is there an emoticon for shoulder-slumping resignation?
sigh...
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Unread 03-05-2014, 06:56 PM
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Re: Astrology Shame

This is why we are spiritual beings having a human experience, rather than the other way around. If you, at a soul level, didn't want to be bound or influenced by human societal impulses and mores, than you wouldn't have even come here to this planet. There are plenty of other planets where life is much more simple and clear cut - but then you'd be bored silly. Planet Earth is the graduate program - get past Earth and you'll be a soul with a PhD, or a masters at the very least. Unless you haven't lived hundreds of lives here already, you've already been through the milieu of human experience. Kill, be killed; eat, be eaten; love, be loved; live, not live. And so on. Now you are starting to see the "connectedness" between all peoples and the history and societal rules that binds them - and what? We are all made in God's image and this is a literal phrase, it is not metaphorical. We have the same power as God, but live in a dimension filled with mud so that we are forced to only focus on one thing or another, without seeing the big picture. It is only in that fashion we can thoroughly understand the range of human experience in the same manner that God does. Not always a pleasant experience, to be sure, but necessary to reach the goal. You've sweated, stubbed your toe, tripped on rocks, and gotten thirsty on your trip up the mountain. You are on the peak, scratch your head and wonder "is that all there is up here? More rocks?". Thus begins the second phase of mountain climbing. The hike back down.
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  #11  
Unread 03-05-2014, 10:50 PM
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Re: Astrology Shame

I can't really relate to this concept of astrology shame. For a while now, the philosophy I live my life by has been something like this: Never feel ashamed of your opinions and beliefs, because you are who you are; no more, no less. If I were to let other people's opinions of what I know to be fact emberass me, I would be letting both myself and my field of study down; I cannot feel shame for studying astrology without admitting to doubt of it. Besides, I enjoy arguing too much to not talk about it in public. In addition, I have a pretty unusual combination of political, religious, and philosophical views. As you can already assume by my membership on this website, I am a student of astrology. I am also a Christian who believes in reincarnation. I believe that "Gnostic Christianity" is the name for it. Or at least the closest approximation for what my beliefs are. I am also a hardcore libertarian, and if it weren't for their stance on metaphysical science, I would gladly call myself an Objectivist. All of this is a rather difficult subject for me to find people to talk about freely with here in rural Georgia. But then again, I do love a good argument!
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Unread 03-06-2014, 12:33 AM
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Re: Astrology Shame

I appreciate everyone's contributions, reading the posts, here are some of mine.

When I initially posted my intentions were more focused on shining light on what the sucker punch said about me, than antagonizing anyone. There is bigotry in us all. Sorry. Just because we're clear with regards to astrology, doesn't mean we haven't got other areas of blindness. And truly with "bigotry" 's negative connotation, it is again a match to the vibration of shame. We cannot expect ourselves to be fully enlightened, and see all there is to see. We incarnated knowing there was going to be mud, and we needed that mud to set up the right game. If anyone has experienced glimpses of Source perspective, you'll know that Source doesn't actually resent that mud the way we do. I also personally feel like although the purpose within a single lifetime, within the lifetime, may be to get better at handling that life, which inevitably includes things like wound healing (="test passing") and reaching for enlightening perspectives, and "remembering", I do not feel there is anything we are proving while we are here. But we need to believe so to give rise to expansion. Perhaps we didn't incarnate into a 3D perspective because we weren't evolved enough to experience higher frequencies, and perhaps the larger purpose isn't to "graduate" at all, but just to play, but while we are here, a subconscious ever-lasting inferiority complex is needed.

What am I going on about? My own current beliefs. This is where I am at, but just because something has a New Age label on it doesn't make it ultimate truth.

So I agree with Sabatei in that it isn't wrong for a person not to be mentally prepared to accept ideas as seen from an astrological perspective. Except I don't even think it's immature, because to say so would be to say that the fruit of experience bears a relationship to astrological understanding, or the acknowledgement of the workings of the cosmos, and while this can deliver a huge piece of mind expansion, there are so many ways a person can chase and/or find enlightenment. There are different facets of life in which we can evolve and we each measure our maturity against different criteria. But I do see what you're saying in that ultimately our struggles, even the practical ones, are spiritual, and a willingness to embrace a subject such as astrology is an indicator of a mind capable of seeing beyond the veil. It can be argued though, that the next step would be, to be so spiritually connected that one doesn't even bother with the technical details of astrology at all, or with the practice. But then what are technical details and the need for analysis, but parts of the experience of having a left brain, and being human? Is the step beyond that to fully embrace the human experience? Is that descension or ascension? Is retreat from body and others the best way to honor incarnation?

When I started researching astrology, I was fully immersed in the education system I had worked alongside for the past few years trying to indoctrinate myself out of idealistic and theoretical perspectives. So I felt unsafe and ungrounded. I asked a lot of questions, I wanted to challenge astrology, test it, see if it proves itself. (That now feels like a yucky vibration.) Then the principles became integrated with my being, and a new level of faith and acceptance set in. (And I now understand why I was scolded about astrology being a matter of faith that I must either have or don't, but to those grumpy people I would say, you didn't take a moment to realize we've all been there, and meet me where I was at.) The point I'm getting to is I didn't stop at astrology, I researched a multitude of branches in the spiritual realm, and even after embracing the role of the cosmos, there was so much that challenged my perspective so far into the "unknown" that astrology actually became the lower-vibration, safe, point of grounding. And now that I no longer experience trauma as a result of ideas about dimensions, multiverses, and non-physical DNA......... I see how closed off I was before, by no fault of my conscious self. I share this experience to say that enlightenment can only be relative, a self-concept in the mind.

Lastly I wanted to say, as an introvert, I've created the life mission for myself to bear my true colors. That's why I try to be emotionally open on this forum, not because it's easy. That's why my avatar is half my face. That's why I'll fill in the personal information page I never bothered with one day, WITH my name. And that's why I'll never refrain from talking about astrology or any other esoteric topic if I so feel inclined, outside this forum. After all, I'm not out to convert people, maybe inspire, trigger, challenge... but I only speak for myself.

And if we are a soul family of spiritual beings, then to have a lack of compassion for skeptics, is to mirror a lack of compassion towards myself.

Again, the lesson for me was not to turn my back on skeptics, but to acknowledge and share where it is I personally am relative to my goal of living free.

<3

To be honest I majorly hate my self-righteous side. Got healing to do there too. Isn't that funny?

edit:
PS. I'd like to share that making the initial post was very healing! And no understatement was made by "I appreciate everyone's contributions" - I majorly appreciate and accept everyone's compassion - whether our perspectives differed on some points or not.

Last edited by StillConfused; 03-06-2014 at 08:30 AM.
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  #13  
Unread 03-06-2014, 12:39 AM
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Re: Astrology Shame

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Originally Posted by The Ram View Post
Why collect acquaintances as friends...

It`s best to associate with ppl you have a lot in common with. If someone I talk to says they don`t believe in astrology, then that`s a pretty big red flag right there.
I totally agree with real friends being those that are totally accepting of you.

But I must say my ex didn't believe in astrology, but he was open-minded and especially, mind-blowingly (for someone like me) accepting of me. In general I question whether friends have to be on the same side as you for the "big" things or not. Interesting point.
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Unread 03-06-2014, 12:45 AM
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Re: Astrology Shame

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Originally Posted by Birch Dragon View Post

Now, back to Astro-Shame.
I am more ashamed of my astro-shame than shamed for being interested in astrology itself. I'm more ashamed of myself for not being genuine and open about it. As a younger man I very much was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Booth View Post
I can't really relate to this concept of astrology shame. For a while now, the philosophy I live my life by has been something like this: Never feel ashamed of your opinions and beliefs, because you are who you are; no more, no less. If I were to let other people's opinions of what I know to be fact emberass me, I would be letting both myself and my field of study down; I cannot feel shame for studying astrology without admitting to doubt of it.
I invite you to consider that feeling shame for shame adds more shame into the picture. You cannot destroy your shame by pushing it away.
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Unread 03-06-2014, 02:24 AM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: Astrology Shame

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Originally Posted by The Ram View Post
...... believes 100% that there is no way it could work.
Part of the problem for me is that astrology DOESN'T ACTUALLY WORK.

No matter how enlightened I might be after studying astrology for 45 years, I never ever tell people that the actions of the planets, stars, asteroids, and aspects between them cause anything. Its always possible that some level of physics, meta-physics, or future physics might actually show a mechanism of action.

No.... What I say is that astrology is part of a Spiritual World View, not a materialistic scientism world view. As such, astrology only reads the sign posts which just happen to be showing up in the universe that we can see. And also as signs, they are like many of signs that tell us something. When you drive on the highways there are a myriad of signs, from road signs, from angles between cars, from trucks, from road conditions, etc. All of these are greater than their component parts and they come together to provide you with the information about how to get from here to there in the same piece that you were in when you left.

This is how I describe astrology to anyone who will listen. For thousands of years, by trial and error humans have been collecting data from positions of the heavens and comparing it to actions of people, feelings of people, thoughts of people, weather, stock market, and everything in between.

And in these many thousands of years many correlations have been found. These correlations are the language of astrology. Just as no one who reads the signs of the road will generally admit that their speed of driving is controlled by the speed limit sign, I am not willing to tell you that your anger is controlled by Mars. But I am willing to tell you that if you exceed the speed limit sign, thefre is a greater potential for you to not arrive in the same number of pieces as when you left. And, I might also say that indications from the aspects to Mars may also show that your limbic system may not arrive in the same piece, or that the weather may be a bit hotter than it was.

So for me Astrology does not work at all. It just shows signs of something mysterious that no human knows or understands that does work.
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Unread 03-06-2014, 03:48 AM
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Re: Astrology Shame

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Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
Part of the problem for me is that astrology DOESN'T ACTUALLY WORK.

No matter how enlightened I might be after studying astrology for 45 years, I never ever tell people that the actions of the planets, stars, asteroids, and aspects between them cause anything. Its always possible that some level of physics, meta-physics, or future physics might actually show a mechanism of action.

No.... What I say is that astrology is part of a Spiritual World View, not a materialistic scientism world view. As such, astrology only reads the sign posts which just happen to be showing up in the universe that we can see. And also as signs, they are like many of signs that tell us something. When you drive on the highways there are a myriad of signs, from road signs, from angles between cars, from trucks, from road conditions, etc. All of these are greater than their component parts and they come together to provide you with the information about how to get from here to there in the same piece that you were in when you left.

This is how I describe astrology to anyone who will listen. For thousands of years, by trial and error humans have been collecting data from positions of the heavens and comparing it to actions of people, feelings of people, thoughts of people, weather, stock market, and everything in between.

And in these many thousands of years many correlations have been found. These correlations are the language of astrology. Just as no one who reads the signs of the road will generally admit that their speed of driving is controlled by the speed limit sign, I am not willing to tell you that your anger is controlled by Mars. But I am willing to tell you that if you exceed the speed limit sign, thefre is a greater potential for you to not arrive in the same number of pieces as when you left. And, I might also say that indications from the aspects to Mars may also show that your limbic system may not arrive in the same piece, or that the weather may be a bit hotter than it was.

So for me Astrology does not work at all. It just shows signs of something mysterious that no human knows or understands that does work.
Now we're getting somewhere. I think part of the problem is how we handle and package astrology. After all, it is the universe that we are trying to make sense of through the mud, and that must be acknowledged.

The only reason we would fear the cosmos, is if we believed we were seperate from it. That is to say, we do not understand that we are working along side it and therefore, we cannot marry the notions of free will and fate, or what we are doing versus what the sky is doing. This is especially difficult for our egos to fathom.

Some astrologers live with a deep, repressed shame and fear of their love for the cosmos. Why else would an astrologer refuse to deviate from established rules and practice astrology in a predominantly left-brained, rigid way? Even within astrological communities there is a status quo. Sticking to this delivers validity and unaccountability to the work. Haven't you ever come across an astrologer that says, "I don't use that, I use what is tried and proven, thank you very much". If it is delivered defensively, it's got to mean, "I can't trust myself to use this sh*t for sh*t, so let me pass the responsibility to the ancients, and keep it there". But fearful jobs deliver fearful results to fearful clients, and less freedom to explore what astrology means to us. (Or, on the contrary, more drive to explore what astrology means to us.) Then we would have to step in for some damage control : "Oh but, this stuff never works anyway ;-)". Because few people believe that life is what they make it, deeply enough to make the most of a peek into a future probability. And few astrologers trust themselves enough to truly get out of their own way when they deliver a reading.

The other extreme would be to say that since astrology is divination, then none of the rules matter. But then we would no longer have a structure, a practice, a tradition. Not to mention we need it, because we do not yet permanently trust our extrasensory ability, so yes, trying to under these conditions would create a mess (edit: within the use of an astrology with freestyle technique xD).

Last edited by StillConfused; 03-06-2014 at 04:04 AM.
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Unread 03-06-2014, 04:14 AM
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Re: Astrology Shame

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Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
Regardless of your name on this forum, I don't think that you are confused at all....
A gave you a thanks for this very enlightened, high-quality astrology post ;-)

I really appreciate it.

Last edited by StillConfused; 03-06-2014 at 04:17 AM.
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Unread 03-06-2014, 06:16 AM
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Re: Astrology Shame

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I can't really relate to this concept of astrology shame. For a while now, the philosophy I live my life by has been something like this: Never feel ashamed of your opinions and beliefs, because you are who you are; no more, no less.
Oh wow, I previous read the "can't really relate" as a "can really relate".

Nevertheless I think you understand it, even though it's not your chosen experience. For one, because you've chosen to respond on this thread and secondly, because you're philosophy that we can't be more or less than what we are, is spot on.

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Originally Posted by Jesse Booth View Post
I cannot feel shame for studying astrology without admitting to doubt of it.
This is exactly right and in fact, any nervosity I experience with regards to sharing my beliefs with others mirrors my shame of those beliefs, and therefore an inner belief they are in fact defective.

This is not so much about forcefully eradicating the nervosity as it is about pinning down its source.

I have to say though - and I don't know if you experience this with regards to astrology or not - any time we feel threatened by the thought of reconsidering a belief at all, be it what we consider benign or malignant, it's a red flag.
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Unread 03-06-2014, 06:43 AM
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Re: Astrology Shame

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Originally Posted by StillConfused View Post
....any time we feel threatened by the thought of reconsidering a belief at all, be it what we consider benign or malignant, it's a red flag.
Those are moments when two realities finally understand they exist in one body. They work on different frequences and for different reasons but they are all part of yourself. You questioning, for example, astrology is because you also think that there are other things in this world that are the opposition of your belief. But you exist in every world. You either hide parts of yourself or you use them as a tool to exist in the outer world. Saying before your friends that you belive in astrology is the first step. Becoming an astrologer for a living is another expression of the 'hidden' you. Every belief can be questioned but the greatest idealists don't question the ideals or beliefs themselves, but only their ability to continue reaching for them. You can't balance things, you have to express that which is the deepest point and when you do know its place and purpose, it is a point of no return.
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Last edited by Yanel; 03-06-2014 at 06:54 AM.
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  #20  
Unread 03-06-2014, 07:08 PM
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Re: Astrology Shame

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Originally Posted by The Ram View Post
Why collect acquaintances as friends...

It`s best to associate with ppl you have a lot in common with. If someone I talk to says they don`t believe in astrology, then that`s a pretty big red flag right there.

Some people, especially young people, cannot discern the difference. Where you live of course makes a difference - you'd have a much better chance at finding like-minded friends in say San Francisco or Seattle than in rural Indiana or Georgia. That is why for many of us, the only astrology socialization we get is right here on the forum.
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Unread 03-06-2014, 07:17 PM
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Re: Astrology Shame

Ditto, Mdinaz.

At least some of the organizations that purport to increase interaction on astrology only do so if you are part of their club.

I've contacted NGCR three times asking them for informtion about how to start a chapter in Maine. They simply ignore me.

I guess I'm not part of their little clicky club. I've never become a member(why would I when there is no group nearby?), and I have no need for their little tests, which I don't think a lot of after talking to a couple NGCR IV's who had no idea what I was talking about and never heard of many of the techniques I use.
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Unread 03-06-2014, 07:20 PM
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Re: Astrology Shame

Then perhaps "shame" is not the right word. "Shame" implies guilt, which implies a recognition that what you have done is wrong and needs to be corrected. I've done nothing wrong, so there is no guilt and thus no shame. If someone else has a problem with it, they can feel the shame for being close-minded, bigoted, ignorant, or whatever adjective fits.
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Unread 03-06-2014, 07:26 PM
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Re: Astrology Shame

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Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
Ditto, Mdinaz.

At least some of the organizations that purport to increase interaction on astrology only do so if you are part of their club.

I've contacted NGCR three times asking them for informtion about how to start a chapter in Maine. They simply ignore me.

I guess I'm not part of their little clicky club. I've never become a member(why would I when there is no group nearby?), and I have no need for their little tests, which I don't think a lot of after talking to a couple NGCR IV's who had no idea what I was talking about and never heard of many of the techniques I use.
I view some of those organizations the same way I view a lot of weekend warrior bikers who get their first Harley. Up until then the Harley riders completely ignored these people. Even if they rode up on another make of bike, they'd still ignore them, or make fun of them until they buy "a real bike". Once they buy the Harley, all of the sudden they are best friends and a "brotherhood". Until they sell the bike, and then they are cast out again. F*** these kinds of people. I'll chat and be friends with any person, astrologer or non-astrologer, western or vedic, whatever, whenever. If they know or are interested in astrology, I'll talk to them about it. If not, I won't, I'll find something we do have in common. That's called "social skills".
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  #24  
Unread 03-06-2014, 09:23 PM
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Re: Astrology Shame

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Originally Posted by Sabatei View Post
Hey,
don't you worry, dear. I think they're like children. It's ok if someone doesn't believe in astrology, but when they don't accept you for your passion... Well, it's just immature. My dearest friend is totally Atheist and accept my hobby. And one of my friends, who doesn't believe it too, gave me his birth details so I can learn! He even lets me ask what is happening during transits to his natal planets.

And don't get me wrong - I don't find 'immaturity' bad, it's people's choice if they prefer to talk with an astrologist or not. It's like... children can do some nasty things, right? They just aren't aware it's something inappropriate, because they're on some point of their development. They don't get it even if you tell them 'you shouldn't do it, it's wrong'. As they grow up, they start to understand.
And some just need more time. Some will never learn... .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_G-Bxa6W0Q&hd=1

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Unread 03-06-2014, 10:01 PM
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Re: Astrology Shame

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Originally Posted by StillConfused View Post
Quote:
I can't really relate to this concept of astrology shame. For a while now, the philosophy I live my life by has been something like this: Never feel ashamed of your opinions and beliefs, because you are who you are; no more, no less.
Oh wow, I previous read the "can't really relate" as a "can really relate".

Nevertheless I think you understand it, even though it's not your chosen experience. For one, because you've chosen to respond on this thread and secondly, because you're philosophy that we can't be more or less than what we are, is spot on.



This is exactly right and in fact, any nervosity I experience with regards to sharing my beliefs with others mirrors my shame of those beliefs, and therefore an inner belief they are in fact defective.

This is not so much about forcefully eradicating the nervosity as it is about pinning down its source.

I have to say though - and I don't know if you experience this with regards to astrology or not - any time we feel threatened by the thought of reconsidering a belief at all, be it what we consider benign or malignant, it's a red flag.
Quote:
Nevertheless I think you understand it, even though it's not your chosen experience. For one, because you've chosen to respond on this thread and secondly, because you're philosophy that we can't be more or less than what we are, is spot on.
You're right. I do understand it, though I cannot relate to this instance of peer-shaming(I patented this word, by the way. You have to mail me eleven cents every time you use it!). I developed my aforementioned philosophy a few years before I found astrology. There was a time in my life when I felt ashamed of my political beliefs because of how liberal many of my friends are. I called myself a Republican, and of course, since all Republicans are evil and racist, I must be evil and racist! After a while, I decided to just stop talking about politics, but that didn't make me feel any better. So after a lot of thinking, I decided to wear my mark of shame as a badge. I didn't even feel that strongly for everything I argued for, I was just sick of people making me feel ashamed of my different opinion! Isn't it hilarious? The real nonconformists of our time are the conservatives! Of course, I became a libertarian shortly after finding out there were more than just two options, but at the time the closest match to my opinions was the Republican party's platform.

Quote:
This is not so much about forcefully eradicating the nervosity as it is about pinning down its source.
Again you're right. I am not forcefully eradicating nervousness; I am simply accepting a part of myself, and refusing to bend knee to other's doubts about the things I study. If I ever feel any kind of doubt in astrology, it's concern about my calculations, not the astrological methods I am applying. I have no doubt that astrology is an accurate - when it is properly applied. And I am certainly a novice!

Quote:
I have to say though - and I don't know if you experience this with regards to astrology or not - any time we feel threatened by the thought of reconsidering a belief at all, be it what we consider benign or malignant, it's a red flag.
I don't feel threatened by thoughts of doubt of astrology. In fact, every new branch of astrology I begin to study, I force myself to question it! If something doesn't add up right, then it is either wrong, or horribly miscommunicated; either one brings out my Virgo Moon monster, and I criticize the living cr*p out of it! Whenever this happens, everything gets a turn on the insult train, and there's no brakes! Egos get deflated! Arguments are invalidated! Memes are memed! Fortunately, one of the relatively less painful and public lessons Saturn has pounded into my skull is to be absolutely certain of what I'm criticizing before I open my mouth. I learned that one on this very forum, in fact! But once I have found the subject of my interest to be sufficiently accurate(I prefer no less than 95% accuracy, usually), I simply accept the truth for what it is - the truth.


"After all, it would be illogical to deny the facts."
-I'm 96% sure this is a Spock quote
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Last edited by Jesse Booth; 03-06-2014 at 10:27 PM.
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