Is he a mafioso murderer?

JUPITERASC said:

applies to vast numbers of people worldwide
in any event privacy issues are involved with providing
physical description of a person who has not agreed to that

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tikana said:

JA,
your argument is invalid here because we are trying to find what a person looks like to match a planet that he should be represented

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The description provided is broad enough that it applies to many people. Friend's father probably can't be identified definitively based on this.

Now, if the OP posted a photo of him, that would violate the rules, because it would make him recognizable if anyone on here (besides the OP) happens to know him. Or if this guy had some very unique characteristic--for example, a very unique tattoo that no one else has--and the OP described it in detail.

But my understanding of significators in horary is that they only describe someone's physical appearance in a very general way: tall or short, thin or fat, etc. It wouldn't extend to something like unique tattoos or scars or birthmarks.

And yes, since the purpose is to determine his significator in this horary chart, a very general description of his physical appearance is relevant.

Just don't get too specific,
Osamenor

I think it is an interesting method to find out the significator due to appearence. But maybe we could also use characteristc features...like which planet is the powerfulest in his natal. that is why he is mars for me. she wrote that he is a scorpio. If we use the kp method, which is like we are doing a birth rectification, it would be also mars asc.
it is hard to give him a planet significator only due to physical appearence...because the assessment would be too subjectiv, I think.

kalinka said:

I think it is an interesting method to find out the significator due to appearence. But maybe we could also use characteristc features...like which planet is the powerfulest in his natal. that is why he is mars for me. she wrote that he is a scorpio. If we use the kp method, which is like we are doing a birth rectification, it would be also mars asc.
it is hard to give him a planet significator only due to physical appearence...because the assessment would be too subjectiv, I think.

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Kalinka
When as astrologer gets the question, he/she should check validity of thebq. One of validations is physical description

yes you are right. But usually we use the house ruler method like Elena did. Then place of the moon, asc , natural significations of the planet or aspects showing the validitation.

kalinka said:

yes you are right. But usually we use the house ruler method like Elena did. Then place of the moon, asc , natural significations of the planet or aspects showing the validitation.

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mars/saturn has been in orb of an aspect for a week. I am thinking that ascendant being so late either it is a trick question or querent already knows. hour agreement may not be enough...
id change the ruler of the quested. Saturn just do not fit.
if it is a friend then his father is radical 2nd that is Venus
if you use 7th to 4th you get 10th house. Saturn does not fit the person physically.

tikana said:

mars/saturn has been in orb of an aspect for a week. I am thinking that ascendant being so late either it is a trick question or querent already knows. hour agreement may not be enough...
id change the ruler of the quested. Saturn just do not fit.
if it is a friend then his father is radical 2nd that is Venus
if you use 7th to 4th you get 10th house. Saturn does not fit the person physically.

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Another reason the ascendant is late may be that the matter has finished or I have no power to affect the situation. It’s not a trick question, I don’t already know the answer and I haven’t asked this question before either.

The hour Lord is Mercury, day Lord is Venus.. so considering that he may be Venus and the moon next aspects Mercury, I think this hints that the chart is radical. Furthermore the diurnal luminary is in a fire sign, as is the ascendant, as is the hour lord.

Significator on 29° brings the matter to a crisis or trauma. Something for him is about to change majorly. Betelgeuse (violence) and Scheat (murder) are also on 29th degrees.

Sun, his co-significator, rules 4th house of the chart, the end of the matter. The 4th house cusp is 3°, same degree as Jupiter, which the moon is separating from. Jupiter rules his 8th of death and 10th of career. Sun is also at 27°, same as ascendant. Sun on 27° Sagittarius is exactly on the Galactic Centre... suggesting an ‘intense’ career choice, but with moon separating it may be in the past.

Ruler of his 9th house of the law is Saturn, at 20° Capricorn. Mars in Scorpio, the detective, is also on the 20th degree.
His ascendant (2nd house cusp) and Pluto are both on matching 22nd degrees
Moon (Libra) and PoF (Aquarius) are on matching 9th degrees

https://imgur.com/848VY5r (Original chart with malefic fixed stars included)

"Betelgeuse (violence) and Scheat (murder) are also on 29th degrees."
And Venus in the chart is at 29 degrees. Thank you for doing this chart!

ElenaJ said:

"Betelgeuse (violence) and Scheat (murder) are also on 29th degrees."
And Venus in the chart is at 29 degrees. Thank you for doing this chart!

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All in the name of silver-lining learning-via-trauma ...
I have Jup in Scorp what can I say.. when I get on the scent I’m incorrigible

But as a modernist EJ.. I assume you take exact ‘fixed star degrees‘ as relating to ‘[supposed] significator degrees’ pretty seriously

I know I can search for malefic stars and make them match my hypothesis, there are probably plenty of benefics on 29°.. just wondering if these stars are more significant than the several thousand others

Anyway, realistically, it’s a late degree so I realise that despite my conjecture there’s nothing I can do now but watch the news and see if what I intuit develops into a legal/jail situation.

lux111 said:

All in the name of silver-lining learning-via-trauma ...
I have Jup in Scorp what can I say.. when I get on the scent I’m incorrigible

But as a modernist EJ.. I assume you take exact ‘fixed star degrees‘ as relating to ‘[supposed] significator degrees’ pretty seriously

I know I can search for malefic stars and make them match my hypothesis, there are probably plenty of benefics on 29°.. just wondering if these stars are more significant than the several thousand others

Anyway, realistically, it’s a late degree so I realise that despite my conjecture there’s nothing I can do now but watch the news and see if what I intuit develops into a legal/jail situation.

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Speaking of your in , you ought to be careful as your "crusade for justice" (and sense of fun, risk and curiosity, as it's in his fifth house and your fourth house of endings) could get you in trouble because of the 's last aspect to your "incorrigible scent" will now be making it's next aspect to in the 7th house of open enemies. You pursue this further and you might have some problems, being ruled by with the planet of brutality in his house of ill health and ruling your house of same.

You should be careful is what I'm saying, especially living so close to Melbourne, you'd do well to be careful as Melbourne is notorious for its problems with drugs like crystal meth and gangs/mafia. I say this simply because nothing will appear on TV, and you will have to pursue further unless he take his secrets with him to the grave. The person, this elderly man, does not live much longer. Not to the point of ending in revealing news by any means. I say this because I see you digging deeper into this in the future.

Curiosity killed the cat. You knew the answer to this question deep inside before you even asked.

Cypocryphy said:

Speaking of your in , you ought to be careful as your "crusade for justice" (and sense of fun, risk and curiosity, as it's in his fifth house and your fourth house of endings) could get you in trouble because of the 's last aspect to your "incorrigible scent" will now be making it's next aspect to in the 7th house of open enemies. You pursue this further and you might have some problems, being ruled by with the planet of brutality in his house of ill health and ruling your house of same.

You should be careful is what I'm saying, especially living so close to Melbourne, you'd do well to be careful as Melbourne is notorious for its problems with drugs like crystal meth and gangs/mafia. I say this simply because nothing will appear on TV, and you will have to pursue further unless he take his secrets with him to the grave. The person, this elderly man, does not live much longer. Not to the point of ending in revealing news by any means. I say this because I see you digging deeper into this in the future.

Curiosity killed the cat. You knew the answer to this question deep inside before you even asked.

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Ok couple of questions.. obviously I meant my natal Jupiter, so can we read our natal chart placements in relation to a horary?? I didn’t know about this

Second.. I don’t really live close to Melbourne, and I’m not talking about Australian mafia. I know they all have connections everywhere, but why would that relate to me? Someone will notice I’m asking too many questions and do something??

Third.. what in the chart suggests him not living much longer?

Oh and fourth.. when you say I already know the answer, is that saying I know that he has killed people?

lux111 said:

Ok couple of questions.. obviously I meant my natal Jupiter, so can we read our natal chart placements in relation to a horary?? I didn’t know about this

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Interesting question. The short of it is "yes." If you are the querent, which you are, then you as a person; i.e., your natal chart, has a bearing on the reading. Albeit tangential and only because you mentioned this quality about yourself. It so happens that such a condition appears to be in the chart. You yourself said as much but chose the wrong planet, in my opinion. Your curiosity is what is shown, and then later, your inquiry, by planetary meaning and dignity (dignity in all its sense). You are always a factor in any reading where you are a querent, and there is no chart that will supersede that of your natal chart other than natural phenomena of the world you are in. But a chart of that kind is not really needed in a question of this kind. The point is: Wherever you go, there you are.

[deleted personal details OP did not give permission to reveal - Moderator]

Third.. what in the chart suggests him not living much longer?

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A combination of factors. His age for one. His ruler anoretic and a passing aspect of and showing ill health, the former being in the bounds of the former and the latter the significator of the quesited, and both are accidentally powerful. You can feel it. There is something wrong with this person.

Oh and fourth.. when you say I already know the answer, is that saying I know that he has killed people?

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You have been curious and have been asking questions. You have associated with these people. You will continue to do so. And through your curiosity you know or at least believe that he was or is dangerous and/or unscrupulous. You just wanted to confirm your gut feeling or the aspersions made to you, by your having a sticky beak.

And I can’t say for certain — I’m not sure if you see it in the chart or not — but I strongly doubt I’ll continue to associate with these people

Cypocryphy said:

Interesting question. The short of it is "yes." If you are the querent, which you are, then you as a person; i.e., your natal chart, has a bearing on the reading. Albeit tangential and only because you mentioned this quality of yourself. It so happens that such a condition appears to be in the chart. You yourself said as much but chose the wrong planet, I believe.

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Also..
How do you mean the condition happens to appear in the chart? The Jupiter in the horary is in Cap not Scorp..?

lux111 said:

And I can’t say for certain — I’m not sure if you see it in the chart or not — but I strongly doubt I’ll continue to associate with these people

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Sorry about that. I thought it wouldn't matter too much but wanted to make a point that these associations are unhelpful and is why I posted that article.

Anyhow, first, one reads horary charts differently than natal charts in some regards. So you won't replicate a natal chart, necessarily, in horary. Nevertheless, there are many roads up the mountain. That's why it's not too important what methods one uses in horary, although I do agree with some others here that the outer planets are of limited value in horary charts. Reason one is due to the lack of rulership over the signs. That system is broken and doesn't have the philosophy and symmetry of just using the traditional planets. The second is due to the speed at which those planets move. You can cast horary charts for a week, and those planets will be where they are at the beginning of the week. So I suppose they work like fixed stars, in my opinion.

That's a tangent. The point is that the answer is all that matters and how one gets there is irrelevant to some extent. So you will come to a conclusion that is the same but arrived at it from a different path.

So your does not need to be exactly the same in a horary to come to the same conclusion. Like I said, horary is not read the same as a natal chart.

As far as your continuing to be involved with these people, that's what the chart shows. However, I'm not sure if this man you asked about is going to die of some disease. I don't know how much you know about him, but this is a past situation. He may be lame in some way or has a physical problem, health wise, that causes issues.

What I was seeing is that he's not going to remain in your life for long, whether he moves or manages in someway to be in a situation where you cannot know about him or have contact. And it is at this point that I see your trying to find out more about this person or family or something like that, asking questions. Not here but physically inquiring about this person to an extent that it is known that you are asking.

This man, however, will disappear from your life. How exactly, I'm not sure, but this "vanishing" will cause some emotional issue that propel's you to "investigate further." Of course, after this, you might want to change your mind. I'm not looking at the chart you posted so I can't give a time frame for you. But you are emotionally invested in this inquiry and will pick it up again within a month, for sure. Likely it will be sooner.

I can't recall other questions you asked. Oh. I recall something. There is no Mafioso that can be considered "white collar." I have never known anyone, in all of history, who was a gangster/mafioso that did not enter the drug trade, whether it was bootlegging in the 1930s, selling cocaine and crack in the 1980s, to heroin in the early 2000s and meth in the 2010s. Money laundering is a process by which an "organization" tries to make the funds' sources untraceable. The sources are often varied but have always involved drugs in one way or another. Unless its ripping people off by upgrading junk stock like Wall Street, I just don't see a white collar element here.