Are 12th house planets really that bad?

I remember learning that since 12th house represents "losses," any planets placed there will have some kind of loss assciated with them...

Really? But according to my research, a beneficial planet or one well aspected in the 12th house shoudn't be a problem at all. For example, I've heard that a well-aspected Jupiter in the 12th house means hidden protection by spirits and guardian angels (sounds good to me), and a Venus in a good shape placed in the 12th house is actually good for wealth because Venus is exalted in this house. What's your experience with 12th house?


[Moderator note - thread moved here, as it discusses an astrological house.]

I agree with you here. The 12th house has kind of gotten a bad rap. I know there has been research showing that Many 12th house sun people attain quite a bit of success in their lives. My husband of 25 yrs has a 12th house aries sun and mercury, and he is very happily living his dream as a screenwriter
for Disney. He gets to make up stories and characters, then watch them come to life animated on screen.

But there are very difficult 12th house placements, like an afflicted mars and/or saturn for example, which sometimes produce built up , inner rage, which is often hard to find a healthy release for.

I have a 6th house stellium, so the 12th has always fascinated and confused me. I have always been drawn to the mysterious, magnetic energy field of the 12th, but also find myself trying to 'correct' them or save them from my own perceived faults.

http://www.astrology.com/aboutastrology/interpreting/houses/house12.html

I remember learning that since 12th house represents "losses," any planets placed there will have some kind of loss assciated with them...

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Without seeing the chart involved it's very hard to comments how these planets will behave. Classically things in 12th are hidden, kept from view, the house of 'self undoing'

Jupiter placed here suggests hidden support yes but you have to wait for people to ask first and again all depends how jupiter is aspects. Any, all planets placed in 12th would take of a piscean flavour and act is sacrifical manner. To have venus placed suggests that person may not have been shown much love and affection in childhood, espec if aspected to Saturn, it also suggests 'secret affairs' lots of things going on behind closed doors and in private...

I sincerely wish people would not concentrate on the negative so much . The 12th house can be wonderful.

AquariusT said:

I sincerely wish people would not concentrate on the negative so much . The 12th house can be wonderful.

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I agree...alot of people don't seem to like the 8th house very much either. Associating an aspect, house or sign with only bad aspects is only looking at half of the whole picture. There's two sides to every coin. Even if you have "rough" aspects, working through these will yield super positive results.

I actually like the 12th house, and am a little sad that I have no planets in it haha.

AquaScorpio said:

I agree...alot of people don't seem to like the 8th house very much either. Associating an aspect, house or sign with only bad aspects is only looking at half of the whole picture. There's two sides to every coin. Even if you have "rough" aspects, working through these will yield super positive results.

I actually like the 12th house, and am a little sad that I have no planets in it haha.

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Come to think of it, All of the WATER houses, the 4th, 8th and 12th, seem to get a bad reputation , although a little unfairly.
I guess it is common to have problems with the Sun there, it being all bright and fiery and all that. Hard to shine from the watery domain of the 4th, 8th or 12th. It usually glowers, or broods or meditates or passses out there.
But they are all very creative and deeply emotional houses, and imply a resourceful, spirit.
And quietly, they CAN build up a strong emotional base and can end up very successful and emotionally and financially fulfilled.

AquariusT said:

I sincerely wish people would not concentrate on the negative so much . The 12th house can be wonderful.

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I think the 12th house fear comes from the fact that classically this is teh house of self undoing, hidden enemies, also hospitals, assylums and self undoing - as astrologer50 mentions.

As a house of hidden things I think it also points to the subconcious which is not really good or bad as it can go either way to be honest. As 12th house is associated with Pisces I suppose it also covers hidden realms. I have looked at a lot of chart of people who have a full 12th house and many of them seem to be more interested in the spiritual side of life. In fact I often think of the 12th house as being a very fertile place and somewhere that things are synthesised (kind of like the subconcious) a bit like your imagination.

Also astrologer50 mentions the Piscesan infulence and sacrifice and annecdotally the people I know with 12th house planets are actually quite self sacrificing and Piscean in that respect.

AquariusT said:

I sincerely wish people would not concentrate on the negative so much . The 12th house can be wonderful.

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I was attempting to 'balance out' astrological factors, it's very hard when people don't post charts for a fuller better picture, cos they will only get half a picture with us seeing the chart inanyevent...

For example, I've heard that a well-aspected Jupiter in the 12th house means hidden protection by spirits and guardian angels (sounds good to me), and a Venus in a good shape placed in the 12th house is actually good for wealth because Venus is exalted in this house

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Now I think this is 'rose tinted glasses' the money houses are 2/8th not 12th. On the positive side it can suggest being more spiritual, psychic, intuitive but needs space and time alone to commune with oneself rather than others.

Jupiter placed here suggests that person as a child may have felt trapped, held back by strict parents, venus there suggests lack of affection to they never learnt to openly express these qualities. Again without seeing the chart, we are talking 'generalities'
Overexpansion into the spiritual realms is often nice, (it can make someone very sympathetic, caring type ‑ always willing to listen) very satisfying, but not practical or applicable to the real world we live in! Also keep this inner confidence to ­themselves!

Ultimate intellectual values placed here suggest ultimate ­spiritual values, anything seems possible. They are both mutable, restless and unstable. It may indicate someone who has limitless faith in the Universe, its goodness. This person may honour a peaceful, loving, flowing attitude as the highest path. Could have a deep love and respect for music, art or the saviour role. They could be seduced by the victim and martyr roles, due to an overemphasis on self‑sacrifice. They could easily get into the habit of giving too much of themselves in order to keep peace. They may indefinitely be looking at the World through rose‑tinted glasses !

They could idealise spiritual values, enshrine passivity, gentleness and surrender. They might expect themselves and others to always be empathic, sensitive and receptive.

This thread interests me as my daughter has a stellum of planets in 12th.venus,jupiter.mercury,moon,sun,and nnode r. These are all of course mostly conj each other and sun,venus, and jupiter all square pluto,uranus,and mars in her 4th.venus also squares saturn so does jupiter and sun in her 10th.
She was avery much loved child ,popular,intelligent,pretty and grown into a very beautiful woman. I wouldn't want to go on about her life as I don't want to tempt fate.
I'm still very much learning my astrology and have studied her chart but can't make things fit as most interpretations seem to be so negative and she's not,quite the opposite.She is sun gemini and rising gemini,very typical to type here,and has a difficult time when mercury is retrograde.
I can't post her chart although she wouldn't mind I haven't got round to being able to do it yet.computer skills are not that good either.
If anyone has any thoughts on this I'd love to hear them.
to fellow astrologers very best regards. Gamzattix

To use "with great power comes great responsibility", which sounds like Spiderman, you can flip that and say "with great responsibility comes great power".

The "responsiblity" is always about our finding ways to understand ourselves, to see ourselves as we really are. 12th House emphasis suggests great difficulty in self-understanding, in general. This means doing a lot more work to uncover what is hidden to ourselves, the part of us that is our own "secret enemy".

The bonus is that IF we do the work to uncover that which is hidden within ourselves, the rewards are great because of the work done. So those with packed 12th houses may be among the most ethical, honest and courageous people on the planet. But it is likely that they will go through very challenging personal experiences to get there.

astrologer50 said:

Overexpansion into the spiritual realms is often nice, (it can make someone very sympathetic, caring type ‑ always willing to listen) very satisfying, but not practical or applicable to the real world we live in! Also keep this inner confidence to ­themselves!

Ultimate intellectual values placed here suggest ultimate ­spiritual values, anything seems possible. They are both mutable, restless and unstable. It may indicate someone who has limitless faith in the Universe, its goodness. This person may honour a peaceful, loving, flowing attitude as the highest path. Could have a deep love and respect for music, art or the saviour role. They could be seduced by the victim and martyr roles, due to an overemphasis on self‑sacrifice. They could easily get into the habit of giving too much of themselves in order to keep peace. They may indefinitely be looking at the World through rose‑tinted glasses !

They could idealise spiritual values, enshrine passivity, gentleness and surrender. They might expect themselves and others to always be empathic, sensitive and receptive.

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Wow, do I know you?

I am just starting to learn the basics of astrology, and this post has been very interesting indeed. In my chart (attatched) I have my 12H occupied by a moon conj mars in Capricorn, squared both by a 2H Pisces Sun and an 8H Pluto in Virgo. (I also have a funny feeling that my Saturn dead on the IC and Neptune conj Jupiter in Sag might be signifigant here.) Your description of character traits here applies all over the place and has gotten me in all sorts of trouble. My greatest strength is also my greatest weakness, and the frustration of that mars/moon causes me to freeze. There is much to think about here.

gamzatti said:

This thread interests me as my daughter has a stellum of planets in 12th.venus,jupiter.mercury,moon,sun,and nnode r. These are all of course mostly conj each other and sun,venus, and jupiter all square pluto,uranus,and mars in her 4th.venus also squares saturn so does jupiter and sun in her 10th.
She was avery much loved child ,popular,intelligent,pretty and grown into a very beautiful woman. I wouldn't want to go on about her life as I don't want to tempt fate.
I'm still very much learning my astrology and have studied her chart but can't make things fit as most interpretations seem to be so negative and she's not,quite the opposite.She is sun gemini and rising gemini,very typical to type here,and has a difficult time when mercury is retrograde.
I can't post her chart although she wouldn't mind I haven't got round to being able to do it yet.computer skills are not that good either.
If anyone has any thoughts on this I'd love to hear them.
to fellow astrologers very best regards. Gamzattix

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If she does not mind, if you have permission to post her chart, then you can give us the information in this way:

Latitude and Longitude or place of birth
exact time of birth (be sure you use a birth certificate)
day and year
no name

Someone can easily put in that data and then link her chart to this or any other topic.

The reason people usually use charts is that seeing the charts, with the place of birth deleted or simply not shown, gives a bit more anonymity. That may or may not be a concern. I hardly worry about people knowing where I was born, 60 years ago. But for other people it is yet another piece of information that they would rather not "share" publicly.

I would be interested in seeing the chart. 12th house planets is only one factor in a chart. There could be many others that show ease, lack of obstacles.

Thankyou for that Gaer.Birth details are as follows:
May 30th 1965 6.10am BST-1.00 51N30 OW10 London UK.
I really must follow the instructions to be able to post those charts as thumbnail. The above details are as my computer program prints them up.
Thanks again for your help.Gamzatti x

gaer said:

The bonus is that IF we do the work to uncover that which is hidden within ourselves, the rewards are great because of the work done. So those with packed 12th houses may be among the most ethical, honest and courageous people on the planet. But it is likely that they will go through very challenging personal experiences to get there.

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This is very well put. It is a shame that 12th house individuals have to endure a lot of difficulty, typically, in order to develop into the amazing individuals that they become. However, it seems that this is simply the terrain that they need in order to grow into who they are. If you want to be an olympic athlete, you have to do some pretty hardcore training. The 12th house individual doesn't have the luxury of deciding whether to become strong; they can't choose to opt out of their grueling training. But if they can handle what life deals them, they then achieve incredible greatness that others without their experiences could only dream of. The kind of strength that a 12th house person can obtain is the sort that does not bring fame or fortune, but establishes a wisdom within the individual that is far more worthy of respect, and far more needed in this world.

gamzatti said:

Thankyou for that Gaer.Birth details are as follows:
May 30th 1965 6.10am BST-1.00 51N30 OW10 London UK.
I really must follow the instructions to be able to post those charts as thumbnail. The above details are as my computer program prints them up.
Thanks again for your help.Gamzatti x

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It be most helpful to ‘post’ their charts (rather than data), for others to comment on as we are all visual. For help on how to do this, go here. There is an option in Extended chart selection to ‘anonymised drawing (without name)’ box http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12126

Astrological data are highly sensitive. Therefore ask you to take the protection of your personal data of third persons very seriously. If you wish to post the chart of a person known to you, you must have their permission to do so or better still anonymize the name and all birth/personal data. If this is not the case, please refrain from posting this chart.

Gamzatti,

This thread interests me as my daughter has a stellum of planets in 12th.venus,jupiter.mercury,moon,sun,and nnode r. These are all of course mostly conj each other and sun,venus, and jupiter all square pluto,uranus,and mars in her 4th.venus also squares saturn so does jupiter and sun in her 10th.
She was avery much loved child ,popular,intelligent,pretty and grown into a very beautiful woman. I wouldn't want to go on about her life as I don't want to tempt fate.

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It's very difficult to analyse our childrens charts, but the simply matter is have the 'lights' espec in 12th suggests the ego needs (sun) and emotional needs (moon) we not encouraged enough or allowed to flourish and espec with moon in 12th I have seen a kind of resentment towards mother or something really not quite gelling. Add to that Gemini Asc is quite well known for having a difficult childhood, a square peg in a round hole feel. With mercury in 12th communications and square to pluto, urnanus, saturn and mars, there will be lots 'brewing' beneath the surface and not openly expressed. Venus square saturn is a classic for not feeling loved enough in childhood and sun square pluto is problem with father.....

Gemini Asc and Sun are what I call the 'why' children always inquisative, asking questions, they tend to pick up lots of bits of information and never know anything in great depth, very restless procrastinating and indecisive and would really prefer others to make decisions for them too.

Amongst other things, astrology is a wonderful tool for understanding yourself and others better.....enabling us to make better choices in life as we become aware of how our behaviour influences what happens to us through the law of cause and effect. Astrology does not reliably predict the future.......But it can provide an excellent insight into the psychological make-up of people, enabling us to accurately predict their behaviour and it's resultant effects

despitemyself,

In my chart (attatched) I have my 12H occupied by a moon conj mars in Capricorn, squared both by a 2H Pisces Sun and an 8H Pluto in Virgo. (I also have a funny feeling that my Saturn dead on the IC and Neptune conj Jupiter in Sag might be signifigant here.) Your description of character traits here applies all over the place and has gotten me in all sorts of trouble. My greatest strength is also my greatest weakness, and the frustration of that mars/moon causes me to freeze.

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Mars/moon is bossy mother and that 'freezing' is something you did in childhood in response to your mother's behaviour. Sun square moon takes some integrating too. You to have the venus square saturn aspect.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrological-aspects/venus-square-saturn.php
http://cafeastrology.com/natal/venussaturnaspects.html

Thanks for your thoughts astrologer 50. It is pretty much true that there is a lot brewing under the surface ,as the eldest of 3 and a 7year gap between her and the next there is a lot of sibling rivalry.Although not just on her side they each have their share of that.Our mother/daughter relationship is good even if it was a bit up and down during the teenage years.she is also very close to Dad,Daddies little girl if you like. It's just that so much seems to be feared about 12th house planets by some astrology people you tend to boggle at so many planets in 1 house.At first glance it would seem to point to an unbalanced personality,and she is far from that.I don't think I've known anyone to have so many real friends and be such a loyal friend in return.She is the sort of person who has charisma and draws others to her.Also quite a good artist,and the sort of person who no matter what they attempt to do creatively do it brilliantly.
I really sbscribed to this thread not just to satisfy my own curiosity about this chart,but to reassure others that 12th house planets can't necessarily be negative or someone with a chart like this whatever interpretation is given they'll have their fair share of luck and a good personality.
Don't worry about posting details without permission Astrologer 50,I wouldn't do that. Once again thanks for your input.
At the moment I'm struggling with interpretations,having studied the basics whenever faced with a chart my mind goes a blank,although I can follow the reasoning of explanations by others.Guess like anything it's just practise and keeping at it.

gamzatti said:

Thanks for your thoughts astrologer 50. It is pretty much true that there is a lot brewing under the surface ,as the eldest of 3 and a 7year gap between her and the next there is a lot of sibling rivalry.Although not just on her side they each have their share of that.Our mother/daughter relationship is good even if it was a bit up and down during the teenage years.she is also very close to Dad,Daddies little girl if you like. It's just that so much seems to be feared about 12th house planets by some astrology people you tend to boggle at so many planets in 1 house.At first glance it would seem to point to an unbalanced personality,and she is far from that.I don't think I've known anyone to have so many real friends and be such a loyal friend in return.She is the sort of person who has charisma and draws others to her.Also quite a good artist,and the sort of person who no matter what they attempt to do creatively do it brilliantly.
I really sbscribed to this thread not just to satisfy my own curiosity about this chart,but to reassure others that 12th house planets can't necessarily be negative or someone with a chart like this whatever interpretation is given they'll have their fair share of luck and a good personality.

At the moment I'm struggling with interpretations,having studied the basics whenever faced with a chart my mind goes a blank,although I can follow the reasoning of explanations by others.Guess like anything it's just practise and keeping at it.

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Basic astrology
Now basically your sun sign is your 'core beliefs, values, ego' and Asc is your physical body, mode of expression and mask and persona that we all wear and hide behind, but definitely not what's going on underneath. What's going on underneath is your Sun sign. Moon sign, house placements and aspects describe your emotional and intuitive responses, also describes your view of your mother, as saturn describes your father by sign and house position.

So, think of a glass milk bottle the bottle is your Asc and your sun the milk, but the milk still has to 'come out' through the glass neck of the milk bottle....

Now aspects within a natal chart represent 'facets' of our personality, because we are all multifaceted beings. What these do is 'break down and compartmentalise' these facets into smaller bite size chunks. This does take quite a lot of self analysis and objectivity to 'see yourself' and why you do certain things and behave in certain ways. Actually it can be quite good therapy...

It's no good just over analysing just say venus square saturn the whole chart need to be looked at and no-one just identifies themselves with just 'one facet' of thier personality as I said earlier.

Houses: angular houses 1/7 4/10 the energies of planets placed here are obvious cos it's your 'shop window' visible for everyone to see. Next the succeedent houses 2/8 & 5/11 the energies in these houses are not in shop window the are in the shop, but stood behind the counter, ready to come out when needed. Lastly, cadent houses 6/12 & 3/9 these houses/planets are not in shop window or stood behind the counter, they are in the back storeroom and only come out when 'triggered' or an emergency and much harder to recognise and access...

The houses are like the backdrop of a stage, the setting if you like, the planets are like actors and the aspects are how the planets behave in that settings/stage....

Perhaps you should read this thread entitled: astrology predicts meanings, not events
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17546&page=2


Astrology is not about sitting home on the couch eating nachos and waiting for the planets to make good things happen in your life. It is always your responsibility to work towards making your own dreams come true. Horoscopes simply help you to schedule your actions for the best possible outcome
http://www.tomorrowsedge.net/virgo-monthly-astrology-horoscope.html

Freewill of clients
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17958
Learning astrology via ‘cookbooks’
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18103

gamzatti said:

Thankyou for that Gaer.Birth details are as follows:
May 30th 1965 6.10am BST-1.00 51N30 OW10 London UK.
I really must follow the instructions to be able to post those charts as thumbnail. The above details are as my computer program prints them up.
Thanks again for your help.Gamzatti x

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You are welcome. By the way, BST-1.00 is telling you that DST was in effect in the UK that day, or specfically in London, England.

It appears to me that the info you have given should be 100% fine. You got permission, it does not give a name, and I doubt anyone is going to search for someone without a name based on being born in such a huge city. But you can understand why we always advise caution!

Gaer

gamzatti said:

It's just that so much seems to be feared about 12th house planets by some astrology people you tend to boggle at so many planets in 1 house.

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What you have here is a chart with very strong focus. It is rather extreme. A bit unusual. To assume that several planets in the 12th house somehow dooms anyone is extremely dangerous, I think. Chart readings should reflect your daughter. If they do not, I would be very suspicious.

At first glance it would seem to point to an unbalanced personality,and she is far from that.I don't think I've known anyone to have so many real friends and be such a loyal friend in return.She is the sort of person who has charisma and draws others to her.Also quite a good artist,and the sort of person who no matter what they attempt to do creatively do it brilliantly.

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I have seen a few charts with many planets in the 12th that have been of rather famous people. Bear in mind that artistic people, no matter how much they interact with others in public, draw on a wealth of hidden reserves or talents. The 12th is stressed as the House of hidden enemies. Sometimes the only hidden enemy is actually what an individual hides from him/herself. And there is absolutely nothing that says that whatever is hidden can't be discovered, brought out into the light, and used to help other people.

Also, one of those planets, Venus, is very close to the ascendant, a bit less than seven degrees away, I think. It is very close to "up close and center", nearly angular (in the 1st, but not quite), and Saturn, Uranus, Pluto and Mars are all angular. To me it looks like a very strong chart. It also appears (correct me if I am wrong) that things have not always just happened for this lady, that she has overcome obstacles, some really tough ones. These may or may not be obvious to other people.

I really sbscribed to this thread not just to satisfy my own curiosity about this chart,but to reassure others that 12th house planets can't necessarily be negative or someone with a chart like this whatever interpretation is given they'll have their fair share of luck and a good personality.

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I'm glad you did that. I have three planets in the 12th myself and some very difficult challenges in my own chart. My opinion: you can look at a chart and make a reasonable, informed decision about whether or not someone is likely to face more or less challenges. But you can never know for sure how it will play out. There are people who appear to have so many difficulties that it would be soul-crushing to most, yet they rise above everything and become examples to all others about how the rest of us should be living our own lives.

Gaer

Thankyou Gaer.Yes it's true she has had some tough calls in career,personal relationships,andparticularly house moves.3 house moves and each has been a nightmare the last time being gazumpted 3 times.However with determination she has overcome it all.But overriding all this she has strokes of luck and has always so far fell on her feet.I would say she is a strong personality and very capable.