Do nodes and MC count in a t-square?

K

kris10

Active member
I recently learned that my 1st house Jupiter is opposed my 7th house NN and t's off at my MC.

This may account for some of my difficulty in asserting myself into the world and finding much success. Though, there are other factors in that regard.

Do astrologers usually add the NN and MC into t-squares, (i am mainly asking about the NN, I would assume the MC would be)?
 

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ElenaJ

Well-known member
The moon's nodes have two axis, the north and the south. With two distinct meanings.
You have Jupiter conjunct the south node, and your nodes are square your midheaven.
Both the nodes and the MH are important points in a chart, so yes I would include them both if they are making signifiant aspects in the chart.
If you are asking about difficulties asserting yourself, the sun and mercury would play an important role here, conjunct in the 12th of subconscious, repression and difficulty of expression.
With Uranus on the ascendent, in mutable sagittarius, it might also be that you haven't been constant in your efforts.
Also, the Capricorn moon is known to be timid, although ambitious, but in a quiet way.
The south node is a karmic debt, it shows our past excesses, and often is active in the early part of our lives, until we let go and move on to the north node and what it is calling us to experience in this life.
Jupiter also rules not only your ascendent but also your 4th of home and childhood, so you were apparently strongly influenced during your childhood, either by your religious beliefs, values, and philosophy, or maybe you were overly indulged by your parents, encouraging you to be laid back and a little lazy (?).
At any rate, it was a starting point from which you have to move on, leave behind you and begin to explore the north node.
The NN is in Gemini of communication in the 7th house, ruled by mercury.
Mercury we already saw rules your MH and is conjunct sun in the 12th.
The NN in the 7th asks you to concentrate on your relationships, not on your personal expression. Mercury also ruling your MH of career and social status would indicate this is another area effected by these aspects that you have to apply yourself to.
Mercury being in the 12th works "behind the scenes", sublimely, subconsciously, and being conjunct sun it is overpowered by the energy of your ego.
It would seem these are the areas you have to work on, rather than your personal expression.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
kris10 said:
I recently learned that my 1st house Jupiter is opposed my 7th house NN and t's off at my MC.
This may account for some of my difficulty in asserting myself into the world and finding much success. Though, there are other factors in that regard.

Do astrologers usually add the NN and MC into t-squares,

(i am mainly asking about the NN,
I would assume the MC would be)?
Click to expand...
The definition of "T-square" refers solely to PLANETS :smile:
and is explained by Nicholas Campions article FREE ONLINE
AN INTRODUCTION TO ASPECTS AND CHART SHAPING IN ASTROLOGY
at http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects2.html

i.e.
When three or more planets are connected to each other by aspect
they form a pattern with a meaning of its own.

'T' SQUARE:

asptsq.gif
Two planets in opposition are both in square to a third planet. This brings tension and sharp, pressing problems, the result of which may be great energy and consequently a better than average chance of success throughout life.

When interpreting a T' Square all the factors involved - planets, signs and houses - must be taken separately and then built up into a picture of the choices, difficulties and solutions which each planet suggests.

When the 'T' Square is in:

Cardinal Signs
there is exceptional dynamism and energy

Fixed Signs
people may be excessively stubborn
fighting personal battles to the bitter end.

Mutable Signs
they may try to solve, or even avoid
the problems associated with the 'T' Square
by being flexible and adaptable.
 
L

Lin

Well-known member
You have 3 planets with 12th house dynamics.....so that interferes with assertiveness.

Uranus in the 1st in Sagi is usually plenty assertive! BUT....and this is what I believe is the core issue: both Mars and Venus in the 10th house of career are squared by Neptune. Neptune rules your 4th house of "inner" identity (personal as opposed to public identity).

It's hard for you to assert a Neptunian energy when it squares or is squared by personal planets; personal planet energy is what we use "day to day." So....a sort of fear...whether fear of failure or fear of success (2 sides of the same coin) can be a core issue.

So....Neptune (in the cloak of 12th house energy) or in the squares to Mars-Venus - that is what you have to overcome.

Uranus in Sagi is powerful. Plus you have Jupiter planet in the first, which is the house of self promotion.
Yes, it squares your MC but squares challenge as often as they undermine. Most aspects to the MC are considered positive, except for inconjuncts. It means the energy of the planet and the MC are bound to work together even if they fight.

What I'm wondering is this: are you HAPPY in the career you are working in?? Or would you prefer to be doing something else? Often if we don't have our hearts in our work it can be a subliminal message which you send off to the world....so.....like your job??
LIN
 
Last edited:
K

kris10

Active member
Thank you for the resources and information, very helpful. As some of the other responders have pointed out, there are other factors to focus on, I think the t-square my node creates, or I was told it creates, is distraction where I can draw more power from mastering some other energies/aspects.

JUPITERASC said:
The definition of "T-square" refers solely to PLANETS :smile:
and is explained by Nicholas Campions article FREE ONLINE
AN INTRODUCTION TO ASPECTS AND CHART SHAPING IN ASTROLOGY
at http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects2.html

i.e.
When three or more planets are connected to each other by aspect
they form a pattern with a meaning of its own.

'T' SQUARE:

asptsq.gif
Two planets in opposition are both in square to a third planet. This brings tension and sharp, pressing problems, the result of which may be great energy and consequently a better than average chance of success throughout life.

When interpreting a T' Square all the factors involved - planets, signs and houses - must be taken separately and then built up into a picture of the choices, difficulties and solutions which each planet suggests.

When the 'T' Square is in:

Cardinal Signs
there is exceptional dynamism and energy

Fixed Signs
people may be excessively stubborn
fighting personal battles to the bitter end.

Mutable Signs
they may try to solve, or even avoid
the problems associated with the 'T' Square
by being flexible and adaptable.
Click to expand...
 
K

kris10

Active member
You and another responder mentioned my 4th house connections and I believe that to be a big factor. With Jupiter and Neptune playing a major role. In the past decade mainly Neptune, since I was an avid drinker and that was a recipe for not accomplishing much with Neptune in my 1st house with Jupiter and ruling my 4th. I see the connection with illusion and laziness and how that played out at a young age also. I also see why that made it difficult to move towards my north node with so much weight on my south node. But I believe that to have been beneficial in the first 1/3 of my life because I needed to know myself better and did that through many experiences. Now, the shift to the north is in effect, with confidence, awareness, and clarity.

Thank you for responding and helping me but this puzzle together a bit more.

ElenaJ said:
The moon's nodes have two axis, the north and the south. With two distinct meanings.
You have Jupiter conjunct the south node, and your nodes are square your midheaven.
Both the nodes and the MH are important points in a chart, so yes I would include them both if they are making signifiant aspects in the chart.
If you are asking about difficulties asserting yourself, the sun and mercury would play an important role here, conjunct in the 12th of subconscious, repression and difficulty of expression.
With Uranus on the ascendent, in mutable sagittarius, it might also be that you haven't been constant in your efforts.
Also, the Capricorn moon is known to be timid, although ambitious, but in a quiet way.
The south node is a karmic debt, it shows our past excesses, and often is active in the early part of our lives, until we let go and move on to the north node and what it is calling us to experience in this life.
Jupiter also rules not only your ascendent but also your 4th of home and childhood, so you were apparently strongly influenced during your childhood, either by your religious beliefs, values, and philosophy, or maybe you were overly indulged by your parents, encouraging you to be laid back and a little lazy (?).
At any rate, it was a starting point from which you have to move on, leave behind you and begin to explore the north node.
The NN is in Gemini of communication in the 7th house, ruled by mercury.
Mercury we already saw rules your MH and is conjunct sun in the 12th.
The NN in the 7th asks you to concentrate on your relationships, not on your personal expression. Mercury also ruling your MH of career and social status would indicate this is another area effected by these aspects that you have to apply yourself to.
Mercury being in the 12th works "behind the scenes", sublimely, subconsciously, and being conjunct sun it is overpowered by the energy of your ego.
It would seem these are the areas you have to work on, rather than your personal expression.
Click to expand...
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
kris10 said:
Thank you for the resources and information, very helpful.
As some of the other responders have pointed out, there are other factors
to focus on, I think the t-square my node creates, or I was told it creates,
is distraction where I can draw more power
from mastering some other energies/aspects.
Click to expand...
Only PLANETS form part of any "t-square" :smile:
Nodes are important
HOWEVER
Nodes are not planets

and
the following is an image illustrating how Nodes are calculated

Moon%20and%20its%20Nodes.jpg
 
K

kris10

Active member
Lin said:
You have 3 planets with 12th house dynamics.....so that interferes with assertiveness.

Uranus in the 1st in Sagi is usually plenty assertive! BUT....and this is what I believe is the core issue: both Mars and Venus in the 10th house of career are squared by Neptune. Neptune rules your 4th house of "inner" identity (personal as opposed to public identity).

It's hard for you to assert a Neptunian energy when it squares or is squared by personal planets; personal planet energy is what we use "day to day." So....a sort of fear...whether fear of failure or fear of success (2 sides of the same coin) can be a core issue.

So....Neptune (in the cloak of 12th house energy) or in the squares to Mars-Venus - that is what you have to overcome.

Uranus in Sagi is powerful. Plus you have Jupiter planet in the first, which is the house of self promotion.
Yes, it squares your MC but squares challenge as often as they undermine. Most aspects to the MC are considered positive, except for inconjuncts. It means the energy of the planet and the MC are bound to work together even if they fight.

What I'm wondering is this: are you HAPPY in the career you are working in?? Or would you prefer to be doing something else? Often if we don't have our hearts in our work it can be a subliminal message which you send off to the world....so.....like your job??
LIN
Click to expand...


Wow, I just re-read this and it is really helpful and on point. I have never been satisfied in any job. I have to have my heart in it. But now I am building a career of my own for myself and it feels so right, finally.

Thank you :)
 
wan

wan

Well-known member
My own thought is that one of them can be a point in the t-square, but not both, because they are just points in space-time, they are not real objects (planets etc). If you use only one of them it's probably ok but not both.
 
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