Random Thoughts, strictly Text

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
Any opinions concerning Noel Tyr's contributions to the astrological body of knowledge?

I don't have much of an opinion on the man or his work, and the extent of what I've read from him comes from the articles he's published on his website here - http://www.noeltyl.com/menu.shtml. There's a good deal of material here that he's produced, as well as contributions from guest astrologers. Highly prolific and important figure in the astrology world for sure, just never got around to reading his material.

At one point, a former poster on here spoke about trying to learn his astrological method through one of his correspondence courses, but she found that his approach was not compatible with her desire for a more structured, step-by-step guide. An intuitive approach without lots of explanations about how certain concepts connect to one another was the description - "Mercury/Uranus" as opposed to "Mercury/Saturn".

I do note that Tyl is very much an astrology counselor, which speaks to less stress placed on technicalities and astrological power to define every square inch of someone's life, and more focus on the ability of the astrologer to communicate astrological jargon effectively to clients in order for positive change to occur, whether it's the individual's ability to better understand the events of their lives, or equip them with enough insight to alter circumstances according to what is in their ability to do. He also stresses a more holistic understanding of life and other domains of knowledge as an ingredient to an effective astrologer, since a counselling session is going to take you far away from abstract astrological principle once you start exploring people's "issues". To be an astrologer is to be a "wise man", in his estimation.
 

petosiris

Banned
He was somewhat famous, since I've heard him quoted pretty often. If I remember correctly, he originated the slow vs fast thinker and decision maker that was based on the slow or fast speeds of Moon and Mercury - the rulers of the mind according to Ptolemy. Rest in peace.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
He was somewhat famous, since I've heard him quoted pretty often.
If I remember correctly, he originated the slow vs fast thinker and decision maker
that was based on the slow or fast speeds of Moon and Mercury
- the rulers of the mind according to Ptolemy.
Rest in peace.
He will now graduate to the cohort of dead astrologers for whom people still take council and benefit.

A deserving outcome from a lifetime of a prolific career.
MEMENTO MORI
REQUIESCANT IN PACE

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=122983&highlight=schmidt



Robert Henry Schmidt, III 22 December 1950 - 6 December 2018

Robert Henry Schmidt III
67
of Cumberland
passed away Thursday, Dec. 6, 2018.
Adams Family Funeral Home, P.A.,
404 Decatur St., Cumberland
(www.AdamsFamilyFuneralHome.com), is in charge of arrangements
which are incomplete at this time.
Published on December 7, 2018
http://obituaries.times-news.com/obi...e7XP-UpC_COBgs
Who is he, Jup?

Project Hindsight founder member :smile:
Read at http://www.projecthindsight.com/

 

leomoon

Well-known member
I thought what was particularly intriguing, but also expected of me because I wrote a Kindle book about the 3 Moira (with charts in the book) and the background of the Moira quickly referenced here as "fate with death" we are all marked with at our births.

Plato wrote of the Moirae in his massive epic the Republic. Hermes mentioned the Moirae and fate as well as our destinies as souls. Now we are able to track through these 3 asteroids (see chart arrows) ...
So note, the Moira here, (I use mostly Atropos, Moira (as fate) and Lachesis (when we choose the timing of our soul's departure) The ancient Greeks wrote about it too. Quite interesting. I don't set my default charts to depict Clotho, (Klotho), but she is also a part of the Moira i.e. the goddess who sets the life in motion.


Some folks like to reference the location a person moved to, and in Tyl's case, that would be Paradise Valley Arizona where he likely died. I just noticed too, that tr Pluto & Saturn were over his natal 7-8th and falls in his 6th (health house) of the Solar Return chart (outer)




[FONT=&quot]
The ancient Greeks believed that many aspects of a person’s life were determined by the three mythical women known as Fates. These were three sister goddesses that appeared in Greek and Roman mythology and were believed to have “spun out” a child’s destiny at birth. They determined when life began, when it ended, and everything in between. At the birth of each man they appeared spinning, measuring, and cutting the thread of life.
[/FONT]



You can see their depiction here:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HISVC5Y


The title of this page says strictly text, so I hope putting a natal chart/SR for the Astrologer who passed on his 83rd Birthday is okay: (with red arrows)

 
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leomoon

Well-known member
For those who find some interest in Vedic Astrology (I only study the deaths for the Maraka which I wrote about ) ***I know its subject to criticism because I don't do the vast subject of Vedic astrology justice this way, but I studied only deaths finding it an area of both interest for me and because I'm old myself, lol and don't have a full life to devote to Vedic Astrology or the Vedas. (with respect)

it appears applicable because using this calculator with his Vedic Chart (sidereal) he appears to have been born to a long life (as compared to short or medium) and more importantly when he passed over, he was in his Saturn Dasa which started in 2018 and Saturn Bhukti ends in 2021 ....
He passed during the period of the Saturn Bhukti - (breaks the Dasa down further )


For Noel Tyl:



https://www.epanchang.com/horoscope.aspx?cid=19881&dob=12-31-1936%203:57:00%20PM


Sidereal Natal Chart - Vedic Whole signs:


Maraka - 7th ruled by Jupiter (and Pisces ruler) as his Jupiter is in Pisces (stronger)

note: His 8th house ruled by Saturn

 

Opal

Premium Member
I thought what was particularly intriguing, but also expected of me because I wrote a Kindle book about the 3 Moira (with charts in the book) and the background of the Moira quickly referenced here as "fate with death" we are all marked with at our births.

Plato wrote of the Moirae in his massive epic the Republic. Hermes mentioned the Moirae and fate as well as our destinies as souls. Now we are able to track through these 3 asteroids (see chart arrows) ...
So note, the Moira here, (I use mostly Atropos, Moira (as fate) and Lachesis (when we choose the timing of our soul's departure) The ancient Greeks wrote about it too. Quite interesting. I don't set my default charts to depict Clotho, (Klotho), but she is also a part of the Moira i.e. the goddess who sets the life in motion.


Some folks like to reference the location a person moved to, and in Tyl's case, that would be Paradise Valley Arizona where he likely died. I just noticed too, that tr Pluto & Saturn were over his natal 7-8th and falls in his 6th (health house) of the Solar Return chart (outer)




[FONT=&quot][/FONT]


You can see their depiction here:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HISVC5Y


The title of this page says strictly text, so I hope putting a natal chart/SR for the Astrologer who passed on his 83rd Birthday is okay: (with red arrows)


Thanks for the lessons LeoMoon!
 

petosiris

Banned
Thank you for the interesting insights leomoon, if you start a thread on your use of those asteroids in prediction I will follow it curiously :)

Though not sure how I feel about investigating longevity through astrology...

petosiris, on a largely unrelated note, why do you avoid horary?
I cast a chart so gross today it makes me want to give up the art (Aries moon in the same degree as the node for one, and I don't like the thought that we cannot affect our fate in some way).

It doesn't seem natural - Leviticus 19:26. Is it divination?

Genethlialogy and synastry can answer career, medical and relational issues anyway, ok they can't give an answer to lost items and missing people, but that can be left to my long-term memory and the poleese.
 

petosiris

Banned
Also asking questions feels awkward af, I used to do the Hellenistic version of event astrology, where you cast chart for an event (sometimes a question can be an event - like when you discover you got cheated), way back with sidereal and whole signs, here is an example:

''Concerning the intention of letters, if Saturn is angular, especially rising or culminating, the message is exceedingly bad. If Jupiter is also angular, the letter is from a superior and a just person, and the message contains good mixed with some bad. If Mars is also angular, the letter contains fraud, stealing, treachery, over-elaboration, falsehood and it is from a partner, a manager or a successful individual. If Venus is also angular, the letter is from a woman or a tactful man, inclined towards good. If Mercury is also angular, the letter is written by a hostile and knavish person.

If Jupiter is angular, especially rising or culminating, the letter contains great good, truthfulness and glad thoughts over past, present and future matters, written by a reputable man and a friend. If Mars is also angular, the content is indifferent, partly good and partly bad. If Venus is also angular, the good is augmented. If Mercury is also angular, the good is further augmented and brings profit and surplus.

If Mars is angular, especially rising or culminating, the letter contains a plot, concerning great struggles and destruction of superiors when diametrical from the Lights. In such case, the letter is from a knavish, irreverent and irascible man. If Venus is also angular, the letter is indifferent. If Mercury is also angular, it makes the plot more dangerous.

If Venus is angular, especially rising or culminating, the letter contains cheerful and glad news. If Mercury is also angular, the letter is articulate, but liable to schemes and deception.

If Mercury is angular, especially rising or culminating, the letter contains great good for livelihood and security.

Cancer - matters standing in the way
Leo - superiors and harsh matters
Virgo - mysterious matters
Libra - superiors and violent matters
Scorpio - expectations of something good
Sagittarius - commanding and austere matters
Capricorn - cheerful and untruthful matters
Aquarius - advantageous and completed matters
Pisces - summons and plots
Aries - commanding matters
Taurus - disturbing and enraging matters
Gemini - gentle and austere matters
''

This is abridged from Schmidt's translation of pseudo-Zoroaster in ''The Astrological Record of the Early Sages in Greek'', I think. The Hellenistic astrologers used only the four angles (98% of the time) to judge events and elections. They didn't have questions, but rather katarchic astrology that included event and electional astrology as the same thing. My knowledge of the horary that used applications, separations and the lords of specific houses, which originated in the Medieval period is more limited.

Event and electional astrology bear appearance of natural plausibility, but I think they may often fall under the ''observance of times'' category in the Old Testament. I don't find that sending a letter or opening a door ''under good planetary energies'' can be naturally compared with the time when you decide to sow seeds, the latter is obviously permissible, because there is an unavailable time. Also it makes for procrastination and perhaps lack of faith in God.
 
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petosiris

Banned
Yes asking questions is awkward af. Many questions I wouldn’t pose to another astrologer but the ease of casting a computerized chart allows the habit.

Is Leviticus the only biblical reason you avoid horary? Half of the prohibitions of that chapter seem outdated if taken literally. The difference, for example, between predictive technology (weather, traffic) and predictive arts is not laid out.

What is the ethical difference between horary divination and genethlialogy if both are being used to answer questions? The former seems a bit less divinatory given that its answers are conventionally accepted to be somewhat time bound.

Which Biblical commands given to the Israelites do you find spitefully outdated? You don't need to have everything laid out as in modern law, if you have God's spirit or even just a grain of common sense, you will know that it only concerns prognostication that is superstitious or magical i.e. ''Such and such a day is auspicious to begin your work'', or ''Such and such an hour is unlucky to embark on a journey'' (two examples from the Talmud on the words).

Elections are in my experience often exactly that, even if you accept our physics (which do not necessarily affect every single action or every first brick that is laid down in any similar way - according to Ptolemy the sublunar elements are sometimes independently mixing with each other), you are trying to guarantee success of something by following some general ambient that interacts with many other ambients, for example every human ambient, and furthermore it seems unlikely that every single electional ambient is harmonized to concur with all mundane and genethlialogical ambients possible, and even more so if we allow the possibility of free wills and God intervening. Maybe because of this most astrologers claim they only increase chances of success.

With regard to your last paragraph, universal and genethlialogical astrology are not divination, but are based on physical laws. These physical laws can be used electionally (like the weather and the traffic), but this doesn't mean they should be used in the popular superstitious way, like sending your CV few days later at 5:03:48 am, just because there is some favourable electional ambient or natal chronocratorship of any sort, and I don't believe they are synonymous or always concurring. There is no natural basis for horary questions - Morin agrees with me, but he could accept elections for some plausible reasons I gave, but I am inclined to reject both.
 
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leomoon

Well-known member
Opal:


Here is the link again for the Dasas & Bhukti. They are the "timing devices" in a Vedic/Sidereal chart the Vedic uses. The idea of Maraka is more simply defined here on google:

Maraka (Sanskrit : मारक) in Hindu astrology refers to the planet or planets that cause death at the end of a particular life-span, if the assessed life-span is not over they cause accident, ill-health, poverty and misery during the course of their dasha or antra-dasha or in the period of the planet associating/influenced by them.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maraka_(Hindu_astrology)



So many believed in tropical astrology that deaths are absolutely associated with the 8th house, and I wanted to study further this concept, because my preference of course being a westerner, is Tropical Astrology. But what I found is what I believed all along (being careful here of confirmation bias) :happy::wink: and being a Capricorn Sun, Mercury & Mars, I wanted to double check myself on this issue and be open towards other ideas.


The concept of Maraka is looking at the 2nd, 12th, 7th houses (as well as the Ascendant IF in the last 3 degrees of a sign) ....and seeing who the rulers are and going from there. There is also a look/see at the 8th, but more for the "kind of" death one will likely endure. For example, the ruler for Noel Tyl's 8th being Saturn - so I fully expected (was not surprised) to see both Saturn as his main Dasa and Saturn as his main Bhukti periods (for timing).... Accdg. to many Vedic "general' readings, we see that Saturn would be associated with a higher position for example in a company, as the "natural" ruler of 10th house a public house. However, Saturn ALSO has far more complexity bringing us in older age some measure of hardness to our lives or perhaps sadness or melancholy. We have to remember in the west to understand Vedic astrologers, their culture they lived in is quite different from our own. I found for example, most Indian astrologers who live in India seem to like djt. :( ....When we think about him, its money, position and power that is the draw. Not so much the psychology of the person.

different strokes for different folks culturally speaking. Yet back to Saturn! I'd expect in old age (especially with a 8th house ruled by Saturn (Aquarius or Capricorn) that a dasa and bhukti might bring hardship, illness, etc.



If you click this page you see his dob inserted here. Then if you click the "Dasa & Bhukti" circle, the site takes you to those. I haven't fully looked at this site, but it was quick and painless (didn't have to draw up what I usually do in my Solar Fire program.



Anyway, its an interesting study that piqued my interest and still does the older I get.



Vedic Astrology (in general) imo has more fully over thousands of years "honed" their astrology or fine tuned it in regards to being event oriented. You may have noticed that yourself.

But tropical astrology is more involved in the west, not so much with "events" as with "psychology" of a person is what I found to be more accurate.
There are exceptions, but overall.

The intro is quite long here, but can be read if interested what I tried and found it to work well
Meanwhile, I also put it at 1/2 price for next week, so best to wait if anyone finds interest in the subject itself.



There are so many more who died who were well known, but I simply don't have the time to edit each new death - (wish I did), because in astrology its always best to have the largest number of examples in any given topic of the charts.



https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XCH1VG8



Happy New Year to everyone, and I hope 2020 brings us a glimmer of light into a darker world. :kissing:
 
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petosiris

Banned
Not sure what I said to make you think my words are spiteful. Do you wear mixed fabrics? What do your beard and hair cut look like? Do you eat foods grown only from industrial monocrop fields? Are you sure of the age of the trees that bore the fruits you eat? Etc.

Common sense is actually not held in common, which is why I’m curious about where you draw the lines on the significance of weather reports.

No, I am not an Israelite. I do not eat blood or practice sorcery, divination or idolatry though, these applied and continue to apply for the Gentiles. Leviticus specifies when some laws apply to foreigners (like in Leviticus 18), and the apostles of our Lord confirmed them as described in Acts 15.

I believe that the laws concerning idolatry, adultery and blood along with the teachings of our Lord Jesus (most especially the so-called golden rule) are enough for a Gentile to receive an inheritance in the kingdom of God, where everyone can be taught the commandments - see the end of Zechariah 8. Ezekiel 44:9 also sounds like every man will be circumcised and will have to keep the whole Law, this will happen by the power of God. Though I do not see the problem with keeping more commandments even now, they are there for a reason.
 
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leomoon

Well-known member
Thank you for the interesting insights leomoon, if you start a thread on your use of those asteroids in prediction I will follow it curiously :)

Though not sure how I feel about investigating longevity through astrology...

petosiris, on a largely unrelated note, why do you avoid horary?
I cast a chart so gross today it makes me want to give up the art (Aries moon in the same degree as the node for one, and I don't like the thought that we cannot affect our fate in some way).


Thank you passiflora - its always been a subject for me, I didn't find unnerving as many do. I understand that too. :surprised: I'm still manuvering myself around on the various forum pages, and thought I did post some related to this topic already (the 3 Moira) on this page? The chart I used has the asteroid numbers in case you are interested. They (the Moirae) go back into antiquity so caught my fancy unlike some other asteroids.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Thank you passiflora - its always been a subject for me,
I didn't find unnerving as many do.
I understand that too. :surprised:
I'm still manuvering myself around on the various forum pages,
and thought I did post some related to this topic already (the 3 Moira) on this page?
The chart I used has the asteroid numbers in case you are interested.
They (the Moirae) go back into antiquity
so caught my fancy unlike some other asteroids.
In ancient Greek religion and mythology
the Moirai - Ancient Greek: Μοῖραι, "lots, destinies, apportioners",
were the white-robed incarnations of destiny
their Roman equivalent was the Parcae
euphemistically the "sparing ones"
there are equivalents in cultures that descend from the Proto-Indo-European culture.
Their number became fixed at three:

Clotho "spinner", Lachesis "allotter" and Atropos "the unturnable", a metaphor for death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moirai

They controlled thread of life of every mortal from birth to death.
were independent, at the helm of necessity
directed fate
and watched that the fate assigned to every being
by eternal laws might take its course without obstruction :smile:
Both gods and men had to submit to them
although Zeus's relationship with them is a matter of debate:
some sources say he can command them as Zeus Moiragetes "leader of the Fates"
while others suggest he was also bound to the Moirai's dictates.
 

leomoon

Well-known member
A universal concept. I'd not be surprised if they had this concept somewhere in the depths of Brazil and Africa's rain forests.



[FONT=&quot]The idea of three goddesses linked with one’s destiny appears in various forms in mythology. The Greeks recognized another triad of goddesses called the Horae, who were associated with Aphrodite. The Norse called their three Fates the Norns and were sometimes referred to as the Weird Sisters, from the Norse word wyrd, meaning "fate." The Celts had three war goddesses, known as the Morrigan, who determined the fate of soldiers in battle. The idea or image of a triple goddess may be linked to very ancient worship of a moon goddess in three different forms: a maiden (the new moon), a mature woman (the full moon), and a crone (the old moon). [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Fates were popular figures of cult worship in Greece and evidence suggests there were sanctuaries to them in major cities such as Corinth, Sparta, and Thebes. Offerings were also made to the Fates during festival times in Athens, Delphi, Olympia, and Sicyon and they are thought to have been of benefit during the harvest season. Today, the origin and meaning of the word ‘fate’ is traced to the mythology of these three powerful goddesses.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Featured image: The Three Fates by Sodoma, 1525 ([/FONT][FONT=&quot]Wikimedia Commons[/FONT][FONT=&quot])[/FONT]


from my notes:

[FONT=&quot] Atropos was referred to as Morta[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the root for mortuary I would imagine or mortal. Lachesis was referred to as Decima or a tenth, as she measured with her rod the length of the life. Clotho was originally a Roman goddess, referred to as Nona who was called upon in the 9th month of pregnancy, and nona meant 9th. [/FONT]




I liked this one quite a bit:

Even Zeus is bound by the fates.....(I suppose this may mean anything within the earth's plane and that includes their "gods" even the ultimate god.


PLATO one of the foremost Greek Philosophers 2,000 years ago
Writing in the last 3 pages of “The Republic” said this of the Fates:
[FONT=&quot]“Then the Sisters Of Fate take all of our choices and weave them on their loom into the fabric of destiny.

Hear the word of Lachesis, the daughter of Necessity.

Mortal souls, behold a new cycle of life and mortality.

Your genius will not be allotted to you, but you will choose your genius;
and let him who draws the first lot have the first choice,
and the life which he chooses shall be his destiny.

Virtue is free, and as a man honors or dishonors her
he will have more or less of her;
the responsibility is with the chooser —
God is justified”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
“When the souls had all finished choosing their lives, they approached Lachesis in the order the lottery had assigned to them. She gave each of them the personal deity they’d selected to accompany them throughout their lives, as their guardians and to fulfill the choices they had made.
Each deity first led its soul to Clotho to pass under her hand and under the revolving orbit of the spindle, and so to the Necessity (fate / destiny) the soul had chosen in the lottery.
Then once a connection has been made with her, the deity led the soul to Atropos and her spinning to make the web woven by Clotho fixed and not subject to change. Afterwards the soul set a fixed course for Lady Necessity’s throne and passed under it [The Republic – Plato]


[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][Quote from Plato’s Republic written 360BCE[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Aeschylus, Prometheus Bound 515 ff (trans. Weir Smyth) (Greek tragedy C5th B.C.) :[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
"Chorus : Who then is the helmsman of Ananke (Necessity)?
Prometheus : The three-shaped (trimorphoi) Moirai (Fates) and mindful Erinyes (Furies).
Chorus : Can it be that Zeus has less power than they do?
Prometheus : Yes, in that even he cannot escape what is foretold."[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Quintus Smyrnaeus, Fall of Troy 13. 545 ff (trans. Way) (Greek epic C4th A.D.) :[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
"To the Moirai (Moirae, Fates) the might of Zeus must bow; and by the Immortals' purpose all these things had come to pass, or by the Moirai's ordinance."[/FONT]




[FONT=&quot] DAUGHTERS OF ANANKE[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Plato, Republic 617c (trans. Shorey) (Greek philosopher C4th B.C.) :[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
"The Moirai (Moirae, Fates), daughters of Ananke (Compulsion), clad in white vestments with filleted heads, Lakhesis (Lachesis), and Klotho (Clotho), and Atropos, who sang in unison with the music of the Seirenes (Sirens), Lakhesis singing the things that were, Klotho the things that are, and Atropos the things that are to be[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Greek Lyric V Anonymous, Fragments 1018 (from Stobaeus, Anthology) (trans. Campbell) :[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
"Moirai (Moirae, Fates), who sit nearest of the gods to the throne of Zeus and weave on adamantine shuttles countless and inescapable devices of counsels of all kinds. Aisa (Desiny), Klotho (Clotho) and Lakhesis (Lachesis), fair-armed daughters of Nyx (Night)."[/FONT]
 
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