Celibacy in traditional astrology

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
@SMB

Unsure if you are a male or female, but in the section of the Tetrobiblos titled "On Marriage" this is what Ptolemy had to say about men:

For men it is necessary to observe the position of the
moon in their genitures. For, in the first place, if she chances to be in the
eastern quadrants, she makes men marry young or marry women younger
than themselves; but if she is in the western quadrants they marry late or
marry older women. And if she is under the rays of the sun and in aspect
with Saturn, they do not marry at all.

In your chart, we see that the Moon is placed in the western quadrant, and is under the beams of the Sun. It doesn't aspect Saturn based on orb, but it does aspect Saturn by sign, and the Moon is in the sign of Saturn's exaltation. Saturn is itself on the 7th house cusp, which is another indication of "delay in marriage".

Venus is in the 8th sign, which traditionally is referred to as "idle". Nothing happening.

Interesting to note of the 4 persons who shared their charts on this thread, 3 out of 4 of them have Venus in domicile. While 1 has it in fall.

2 have Venus in the 8th house (idle), 1 has Venus in the 12th (loss/exile) while 1 has Venus in the 5th house (the joy of Venus).

But the commonality the charts all share is that the Moon is in a position of disadvantage. One case the Moon is in conjunction with an out-of-sect Saturn, and co-present with another malefic, One has the Moon in detriment, One has the Moon combust (a real debility traditionally) and the last has Moon in the 12th - in exile.

Intriguing patterns are emerging even from such a small set of people, with intriguing implications to go along with it. Is it that those with a combination of a stressed Moon and a domicile Venus prefer to remain untouchable and "pure"? That perhaps emotional unavailability is coupled with a desire to keep one's affections to oneself, that there is a contentment with not engaging with anybody sexually or romantically.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
SMB and Domna also have an out of sect Venus.
that's because
...........and both charts are Day Charts

and so Moon, Venus and Mars are all out of sect :smile:
I just posted FAQ on SECT on your recent thread
at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1005579&postcount=5



sect.png
 

SMB

Well-known member
@Jupiterasc

Not only AJ astrology.....even waybread's post in the previous page is confusing....he is replying to lostinstars but at one point says "you are 45"(me).....so good ol' Osamenor had confused everyone coming to this thread :tongue: going on a mass deletion spree...cant blame him though...he went about his work.....:smile:

@ conspiracy_theorist

Good observations there regarding my chart.... I am male......"delay in marriage" or "no marriage"...as of now ,my mind is totally off marriage as money matters/career have come to top priority now....also if possible I might go in for a live-in relationship....:innocent:

talking about sex life.....be it Domna or me or whoever.....whatever has to happen has to happen at the right time...:D including sex......sex life ,say in early 20's itself would have been nice.....Bah....Just imagine myself getting laid at the age of 50....S*cks :sick:

Need to add this, Domna says she never wanted to have sex....difference is, I want to....
so you can analyse from both our charts where this difference lies....

You also wrote :

Then Virgo is a sign of service, so that Venus in Virgo could be construed as "sexual services".

Last week itself in one thread I told....same thing I will put it here....

I have Venus in Virgo. From many years I am managing an Internet Parlour here in India. Needless to say, most of the customers come to my place for watching p*rn videos.....so which means "they pay me for watching adult stuff" (sex services)
 
Last edited:

Osamenor

Staff member
SMB and Domna also have an out of sect Venus.

As does everyone born in the daytime. If that were the reason for celibacy, everyone born in the day would be celibate for all or most of their life. And no one born at night would--while they're not posting in this thread, surely there are plenty of people born at night who are, for whatever reasons, celibate all or most of their lives.

I have heard a lecture by a (mostly) traditional astrologer who said that the out of sect benefic represents a problem you have to solve. So, if you have an out of sect Venus, something Venusian would be a problem to solve, and your life's work may consist of solving that problem. Maybe in some cases that's feeling forced into celibacy, or navigating the world as an asexual person. But certainly not all.

Planets in fall or detriment, and your in sect malefic, also represent problems to solve. Note how many of these charts have Moon or Venus in fall or detriment.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
a study done on prostitutes saw Virgo Venus being statistically significant for the set. This was using the astrodatabank. For comparison Taurus and Libra Venus were low in frequency.

It is very difficult to explain this dichotomy of supposed Virgo virgins being playboy centerfolds, probably it alludes to the fact of meticulousness of Virgos to use information, in this case using their sexuality and youngish looks for living keeping it separate from their intimate private lives. Do you think other signs can do this?

Another significant placement that cropped up for the list of prostitutes was the Sun in Capricorn. Leaving behind the mythological and psychological for a second, both signs are of the earth element and my thinking is these placements may go into these professions for pragmatic reasons, and may have less resistance to being seen as a commodity. Other elements may place emotional connection, passion/chemistry or mental stimulation as a big motivator to get sexually involved with someone, where prostitution doesn't need any of those to be present. Some guy wants to get his rocks off, prostitute is offering her services. It's transactional. Then the nature of the business is heavily grounded in the body which the Earth element is more conscious of than any other sign.

Then Virgo is a sign of service, so that Venus in Virgo could be construed as "sexual services".
I have Venus in Virgo--in the eighth house, too--and there is no way, absolutely no way, I could ever see sex as just a transaction. It's much too personal, much too intimate. I can only go there with someone I really want to be intimate with.

My celibate times are times when there's no one around I feel that kind of intimacy with. When there is... well, I'm the extreme opposite of asexual, under those circumstances. Without true intimacy, I may have feelings and fantasies, but they don't extend to an actual, real world desire for the act. And I can't pretend. I don't even enjoy flirting, it feels much too fake. Which seems to me to be a Venus in Virgo thing as well.

However, I am drawn to being of service, in entirely non-sexual ways. I have the occasional astrology client these days, and I hope to be a practicing herbalist as well. That's also a one-on-one relationship, in which you learn a lot of secrets. And you have to make the other person feel at ease. In that, it has a common theme with sex work. But it's not sex work, and it's not something that would be expected to be a mutual gift under non-business circumstances.
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
By placidus your Venus would fall in the 8th, but by whole signs your Venus actually falls in the 9th. And unlike the two people in this thread who has their Venuses unaspected, yours has a conjunction with Mercury. The 3 people who have Venus in the "dark" houses (8th, 12th and 6th although none have shown up on this thread) have not had a romantic or sexual relationship, and they have passed their 1st Saturn return. Notwithstanding social conventions, I'd say 1st Saturn Return is a decent demarcation for late sex life.

I do see a lot of 9th house in the way you express your Venus. It being a part of a conjunction with Mercury plus it's house position does seem to speak well to the kind of narrative/storytelling approach you take to astrology (I've checked out your blog and I see your approach to astrological analysis all over the forum). "Spiritual/Philosophical storytelling". Also the herbalism and the combining of a connection to the earth and spirituality also sounds like a good manifestation of a Virgo Mercury/Venus in the 9th, with that Venus ruling the MC/10th sign - you make a profession out of it.
 
Last edited:

Osamenor

Staff member
By placidus your Venus would fall in the 8th, but by whole signs your Venus actually falls in the 9th. And unlike the two people in this thread who has their Venuses unaspected, yours has a conjunction with Mercury. The 3 people who have Venus in the "dark" houses (8th, 12th and 6th although none have shown up on this thread) have not had a romantic or sexual relationship, and they have passed their 1st Saturn return. Notwithstanding social conventions, I'd say 1st Saturn Return is a decent demarcation for late sex life.

I do see a lot of 9th house in the way you express your Venus. It being a part of a conjunction with Mercury plus it's house position does seem to speak well to the kind of narrative/storytelling approach you take to astrology (I've checked out your blog and I see your approach to astrological analysis all over the forum). "Spiritual/Philosophical storytelling". Also the herbalism and the combining of a connection to the earth and spirituality also sounds like a good manifestation of a Virgo Mercury/Venus in the 9th, with that Venus ruling the MC/10th sign - you make a profession out of it.

However, the statistic you found on sex workers didn't say which houses they had their Venus in. Unless it did and you didn't share that detail. You were correlating it with Venus in Virgo, implication being this statistic holds regardless of Venus's house. Or at least, the source you referenced made that implication.
 
Last edited:

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
However, the statistic you found on sex workers didn't say which houses they had their Venus in. Unless it did and you didn't share that detail. You were correlating it with Venus in Virgo, implication being this statistic holds regardless of Venus's house.

In terms of houses, Venus conjunct the 7th house cusp was statistically significant. I'll post the link when I get on a computer so you and everybody else can see for themselves.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist

... a study done on prostitutes saw Virgo Venus being statistically significant for the set. This was using the astrodatabank. For comparison Taurus and Libra Venus were low in frequency.

Hi conspiracy theorist,
I've seen that, but
there are other factors they don't take into account.
@AJ
What factors weren't taken into account?
AJ already mentioned :smile:
.......There's more to it than planets and signs.

a rising day Venus is not the same as a rising night Venus

and it's impacted by the house ruler

and whether or not the house ruler can even see the house it rules


and whether benefics or malefics aspect Venus.
And that's just part of it.

Is Venus between the malelifics

or separate from a malefic and applying to a benefic and on and on.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
All,

Personal discussions and comments on people's posting styles are off topic. Deleted a whole conversation on that. Again, no hijacking! If this thread keeps getting hijacked, we'll have to close it.

Warning,
Osamenor
 

Chrysalis

Well-known member
Okay im really putting myself out here, but anyway....(but only to help with your astro studies)...and im also not ashamed.

Ive been a sex worker in the past, venus/mars conjunction in libra, in the 9th house though, as to which i still can't make no sense of house wise.

But i suppose i could also add to this thread, as i now can't have sex with anyone without alcohol. Been with current bf since last august and have never had sex with him straight headed. I always need to have had a drink ....(not totally drunk, just something in my system), but then again i did go though another plutonic experience in jan this year that i think set it all off again.

Regarding celibacy, i feel like my sex life is more of a service ...always has been, Maybe thats my 8th house Virgo sun/saturn/nn.

*I may delete this v.soon. Please don't quote **

[Deleted references to Pluto and Nessus because that's not allowed in traditional threads. - Moderator]

And yes my venus/mars is out of sect.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
Since I can hear the lock and chains clanging sweetly into the night, I will post a link to the prostitution research that I alluded to earlier, before the thread gets locked.

https://astrologyresearch.co.uk/research-into-prostitution/

1+ for the tradition that Mars conjunct Saturn was a significant placement among the set of prostitutes. As such kind of work is filled with all kinds of hazards and danger. We notice some other aspects that crop up that paint a picture of the abuses that can happen in such line of work, since most who do it aren't in the high-end escort business.
 
Last edited:

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
However, the statistic you found on sex workers
didn't say which houses they had their Venus in.
Unless it did and you didn't share that detail.

You were correlating it with Venus in Virgo,
i
mplication being this statistic holds regardless of Venus's house.
Or at least, the source you referenced made that implication.
Good point, well made

HH XIV Dalai Lama is a Virgo Venus :smile:

The topic of prostitution differs markedly from that of "celibacy in traditional astrology"
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
The great thing about these kinds of tests, is that they can be replicated. The only thing stopping someone is lack of know-how, non desire to do the work or being deliberately obtuse.

Notice that all the Venus signs showed up, but Virgo Venus showed up the most. Its similar to average height of NBA professionals. They tend to be taller people, but that doesn't mean that someone that is 5'10" couldn't be a professional. What shows up the most gives insight on what it takes to do or be in a particular field.

Venus in fall does not mean "no sex" just like Mars in fall does not mean "no aggression" and Moon in fall does not mean "no emotions".

Are you purporting to know what the Dalai Lama does behind closed doors?
 

Domna

Well-known member
Prostitution can actually have quite a lot in common with celibacy. Where celibacy is the choice to abstain from sex, prostitution is the choice to sell sex. They both have to do with chosen sexual behaviour (in general at least, I'm sure some prostitutes are forced into it, and some who practice celibacy don't do it of their own free will). These chosen behaviours thus have little to do with a person's sexuality, as sexuality is not something you can choose. A person can be straight or gay or asexual and still be prostitute or celibate. So that prostitution study can be very relevant for revealing where the choices we make regarding sex are visible in a chart.
 

AJ Astrology

Well-known member
Since I can hear the lock and chains clanging sweetly into the night, I will post a link to the prostitution research that I alluded to earlier, before the thread gets locked.

Hi conspiracy theorist,

Honestly, I'm not seeing anything.

First, the sample isn't statistically valid. In college our statistics class was required to work with the university policy center who conducted phone and written polls on a wide variety of topics. A representative statistical sample for the US is roughly 2,386 people.

166 charts is hardly enough.

Second, by his own admission, "...it is difficult to get accurate birth times for this group of people."

Since he doesn't have accurate birth times, you have to wonder if he didn't cast the charts in a way that would support his preconceived ideas.

There's no point in even casting a chart if you don't have an accurate birth-time.

Third, he looks only at prostitutes. In a true representative statistical sample he would need to look at non-prostitutes.

How many people have the same chart conditions he lists but were never prostitutes?

That would be damning evidence against his claim.

Finally, that is not the research I saw. The data I saw had more than 1,000 charts with verified birth-times, but it didn't really prove anything.

That's why I say you have to look at the chart as a whole.

I have a most devious mind and would make an excellent criminal, except my chart won't allow it due to the placement of Sun, Moon and Mercury.

I'm sure there are many women whose charts have the "signature" for prostitution, but if you look at the Ascendant, its ruler, and the placement of Moon and Mercury you'll find their morals are not corrupt and maybe even their morals could not be corrupted so they'd never engage in prostitution regardless of the circumstances.
 

AJ Astrology

Well-known member
SMB and Domna also have an out of sect Venus.

Hi Chrysalis,

Yes, whether a planet is in/out of sect is important to note.

Ive been a sex worker in the past....

The issue is Venus/Mars not in sect and conjunct. H9 is part of your moral code. The ancients used it to determine how closely one would adhere to the tenants of the gods and the tenants of the gods were more or less moral codes.

[Deleted references to non-traditional post. - Moderator]
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Osamenor

Staff member
All,

This is your LAST CHANCE to keep this thread open. If there's one more off topic, attacking, and/or non-traditional post in this thread, it WILL be closed.

Final warning,
Osamenor
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
@AJ

No need to attribute malice or cynicism on the part of the researcher. Many places on his website he has spoken about the limitations of his astrological research, so you can take it that he looks into astrological truth claims in good faith. He's often spoken about the paucity of his sample sizes and the issue of control groups. Here is one such article that he has entitled the problem with astrology research

A larger sample might ideal, but it is also a costly and resource intensive, and you can count your lucky stars if you find a sponsor with the sufficient money who would invest in a serious astrological study. The largest free public databases I know of astrological information is found at astro.com and astrotheme.com. Since you present like a man who has a handle on things perhaps you have better sources of freely available information that could be used for astrological purposes.

Looking at the whole chart, thanks. As if I haven't heard that for the millionth time. There are enough chart reading that I've done on this forum for anyone to judge if "reading the whole chart" isn't observed.

As to the contention that engaging in prostitution is a moral failing. Interesting. Morality seems to be dependent on the society and the dominant religions that govern them. And there are some that exalt feminine sexuality and sacred prostitution is a thing. Hell, JA's idol comes from a society that has sexual rites encoded in their spiritual practice, but don't tell him that. By some accounts Mary Magdalene was an important figure in early Christianity and she was a prostitute. Was she a moral failure? Jesus didn't seem to think so.

On the other hand, are you saying that someone who wouldn't engage in prostitution under any circumstance won't also be predisposed to murder, lying, cheating, stealing or any other sort of "sin"? I know enough people who wouldn't sell sex but would murder or seriously maim, lie, or other deplorable actions in the name of self-service.
 
Top