Planet temperament accord. to Lilly (vs. typical)

Dima Gur

Dima Gur

Well-known member
Anyone in the group is familiar with W. Lilly's logic about planet temperament?
Here it is, from chapter 106 (the first book I believe):

Saturn
Orientall Cold and moyst
Occidentall Dry
---
Jupiter
Orientall Hot and Moyst.
Occidental Moyst
---
Mars
Orientall Hot and dry
Occidentall Dry
---
Venus
Orientall Hot and moyst
Occidentall Moyst
---
Mercury
Oriental Hot
Occidental Dry

______________________________________________

The temperaments which are usually given, or the ones I'm most familiar with are:
Saturn - cold and dry.
Jupiter - hot and moist.
Mars - hot and dry.
Venus - cold and moist.
Mercury - cold and dry (or adaptable).

______________________________________________

I'm not as interested in the Sun and the Moon as I am with the other five traditional planets.

I know it has to do with the phase of the planet (occidental vs oriental / morning vs evening star) but I haven't went down the rabbit hole fully to understand the logic behind it.

Thanks.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Dima Gur said:
Anyone in the group is familiar with W. Lilly's logic about planet temperament?
Here it is, from chapter 106 (the first book I believe):

Saturn
Orientall Cold and moyst
Occidentall Dry
---
Jupiter
Orientall Hot and Moyst.
Occidental Moyst
---
Mars
Orientall Hot and dry
Occidentall Dry
---
Venus
Orientall Hot and moyst
Occidentall Moyst
---
Mercury
Oriental Hot
Occidental Dry

______________________________________________

The temperaments which are usually given, or the ones I'm most familiar with are:
Saturn - cold and dry.
Jupiter - hot and moist.
Mars - hot and dry.
Venus - cold and moist.
Mercury - cold and dry (or adaptable).

______________________________________________

I'm not as interested in the Sun and the Moon as I am with the other five traditional planets.

I know it has to do with the phase of the planet (occidental vs oriental / morning vs evening star) but I haven't went down the rabbit hole fully to understand the logic behind it.

Thanks.
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D

dr. farr

Well-known member
French hermetic astrologers of the late 19th/early 20th century have given somewhat different temperament affinities; however I usually follow the commonly accepted affinities given above (ps-I never cared for Lily’s works, which attitude made me persona non grata on skyscript many years ago)
 
Dima Gur

Dima Gur

Well-known member
Interesting.
Any chance you have a link / source for those French astrologers who used a different system of attributing temperament to planets?
 
D

dr. farr

Well-known member
one of them was Jean maveric, whose book Hermetic Herbalism, goes much into the subject of temperament; so to with Paul Seder’s Occult Botany, as another example. Hermetic astrology, little known in English speaking astrology, was quite well developed by late 19th/early 20th century French adepts, and offers an alternative to esoteric astrology as developed by the English speaking theosophists like Alan Leo.
 
D

dr. farr

Well-known member
One of the key concepts is the idea of mixed temperaments, w\hich they believe tend to predominate over pure temperaments; the French hermetic astrologers were very active in applying their concepts of temperament to practical medical Astro-herbalism and Spagyric medicine. They looked at herbal affinities to zodiacal signs, as well as to planets.
 
D

dr. farr

Well-known member
Some of these French hermetic astrologers practiced homeopathic medicine, and determined the dominant temperament of their clients in order to help select specific homeopathic remedies for them. Remedies affinitive to each of the 4 temperaments included;

SANGUINE TEMPERAMENT; aconite, arnica,agaricus, belladonna,bryonia, hellebores alba, nux vomica, pulsatilla

CHOLERIC TEMPERAMENT; bryonia, hellebores nigra, chelidonium majus, lycopodium, geranium, cinchona

PHLEGMATIC TEMPERAMENT; asafoetida, hemlock, ipecac, pulsatilla

MELANCHOLIC TEMPERAMENT; aconite, chamomila, coffea, gelsemium, ignatia, convallaria majus, spigelia
 
D

david starling

Well-known member
dr. farr said:
Some of these French hermetic astrologers practiced homeopathic medicine, and determined the dominant temperament of their clients in order to help select specific homeopathic remedies for them. Remedies affinitive to each of the 4 temperaments included;

SANGUINE TEMPERAMENT; aconite, arnica,agaricus, belladonna,bryonia, hellebores alba, nux vomica, pulsatilla

CHOLERIC TEMPERAMENT; bryonia, hellebores nigra, chelidonium majus, lycopodium, geranium, cinchona

PHLEGMATIC TEMPERAMENT; asafoetida, hemlock, ipecac, pulsatilla

MELANCHOLIC TEMPERAMENT; aconite, chamomila, coffea, gelsemium, ignatia, convallaria majus, spigelia
Click to expand...


We must have a melancholic temperament as a nation, because we'd be nowhere without coffee!

But, the Nordic countries drink twice as much per capita. Even Canadians drink more than us.
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
dr. farr said:
French hermetic astrologers of the

late 19th/early 20th century have given somewhat different temperament affinities;
Click to expand...
this thread is on our traditional board
traditional board rule clearly states:
"...For discussions on Traditional Astrology only.
Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as
using techniques developed prior to 1700
by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras..."
dr. farr said:
however I usually follow the commonly accepted affinities given above

(ps-I never cared for Lily’s works,

which attitude made me persona non grata
on skyscript many years ago)
Click to expand...
ps - whether you "...care for Lilly's works..." or not
keep in mind this thread topic concerns Lilly
dr. farr said:
one of them was Jean maveric, whose book Hermetic Herbalism, goes much into the subject of temperament; so to with Paul Seder’s Occult Botany, as another example. Hermetic astrology, little known in English speaking astrology,
was quite well developed by late 19th/early 20th century French adepts,

and offers an alternative to esoteric astrology
as developed by
the English speaking theosophists like Alan Leo.

dr. farr said:
Some of these French hermetic astrologers practiced homeopathic medicine, and determined the dominant temperament of their clients in order to help select specific homeopathic remedies for them. Remedies affinitive to each of the 4 temperaments included;

SANGUINE TEMPERAMENT; aconite, arnica,agaricus, belladonna,bryonia, hellebores alba, nux vomica, pulsatilla

CHOLERIC TEMPERAMENT; bryonia, hellebores nigra, chelidonium majus, lycopodium, geranium, cinchona

PHLEGMATIC TEMPERAMENT; asafoetida, hemlock, ipecac, pulsatilla

MELANCHOLIC TEMPERAMENT; aconite, chamomila, coffea, gelsemium, ignatia, convallaria majus, spigelia
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Alan Leo is a Modernist astrologer :smile:

furthermore

"..late 19th/early 20th century French adepts...
French hermetic astrologer...
theosophists..."
are Modernist

and
traditional board rules state:
Members who wish to explore
a combination of traditional and modern ideas :smile:
should feel free to start a new thread
in an appropriate forum for further discussion


.
 
D

dr. farr

Well-known member
The French hermetic astrologers followed the ancient concepts of temperament but more in accordance with the hermetic perspective as developed during the late Middle Ages in Southern Europe rather than as it evolved under lily et al in 18th century England; the French hermetic astrologers were in no way influenced in their doctrines or practices by either theosophy or by modernist Alan Leo.
 
Osamenor

Osamenor

Staff member
JUPITERASC said:
this thread is on our traditional board
traditional board rule clearly states:
"...For discussions on Traditional Astrology only.
Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as
using techniques developed prior to 1700
by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras..."

ps - whether you "...care for Lilly's works..." or not
keep in mind this thread topic concerns Lilly


Alan Leo is a Modernist astrologer :smile:

furthermore

"..late 19th/early 20th century French adepts...
French hermetic astrologer...
theosophists..."
are Modernist

and
traditional board rules state:
Members who wish to explore
a combination of traditional and modern ideas :smile:
should feel free to start a new thread
in an appropriate forum for further discussion


.
Click to expand...


Jupiterasc, merely mentioning astrologers who don't adhere strictly to traditional astrology does NOT make it a non-traditional post. The topic is still temperament, which is a traditional technique, and it remains a traditional technique when modern astrologers use it.

Nowhere did dr. farr say anything about the non-traditional ideas of those astrologers. Discussing the non-traditional side of their astrology would be out of place on this board, but that's not what's happening. He's only talking about the traditional side.

Posts are fine,
Osamenor
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Osamenor said:
Jupiterasc, merely mentioning astrologers who don't adhere strictly to traditional astrology does NOT make it a non-traditional post. The topic is still temperament, which is a traditional technique, and it remains a traditional technique when modern astrologers use it.

Nowhere did dr. farr say anything about the non-traditional ideas of those astrologers. Discussing the non-traditional side of their astrology would be out of place on this board, but that's not what's happening. He's only talking about the traditional side.

Posts are fine,
Osamenor
Click to expand...
Thanks for the clarification :smile:
for any beginners reading the thread
Alan Leo is Modernist
and
French astrologers of 19th and 20th centuries are also Modernist


.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
dr. farr said:
The French hermetic astrologers
followed the ancient concepts of temperament





Click to expand...

thanks for clarifying :smile:

dr. farr said:
but more in accordance with the hermetic perspective
as developed during the late Middle Ages in Southern Europe
rather than as it evolved under lily et al in 18th century England;
the French hermetic astrologers were in no way influenced in their doctrines or practices

by either theosophy or by modernist Alan Leo.
Click to expand...
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
*


According to seventeenth century master astrologer William Lilly
TEMPERAMENT is the first and most important step of natal judgment :smile:

.
 
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