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Horary Questions on Relational Issues For horary questions about relationships.


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  #1  
Unread 08-17-2021, 01:04 PM
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Will they break up?

Hello dear astrologers!

Here's the chart about my ex and his new love interest/girlfriend.
So the background story is that we established contact again, we hung out and were supposed to meet 2-3 days ago when it came out of nowhere that he got together with other girl 7 days prior to that.
He said that they were supposed to be together before, but circumstances were always stopping them (which makes me think that if they couldn't be together several times because of the circumstances, then it isn't destined for them - but let's forget about my personal opinion and focus on astrology)
So I wanted to know 'Will they break up and will we get together until the end of 2021?'
I made up multiple horary charts about him, but posted only the first one which was asked around a month ago. But this chart is the first one about him and her, so I think it should be valid. My prior charts were about us only.

Here's my attempt to judge this.
I'm asking the question so I get the 1st house. My significator is Mars which is right on 10th house cusp, in Virgo, conjunct Mercury. Mars is peregrine here so it describes me as a wanderer without any direction. But Mars here has accidental strength. I also get the Moon as my co significator.

He, as my love interest and ex, gets the 7th house, represented by Venus which very recently entered Libra, own sign. So recent change of circumstances, and from there it exalts Saturn.
He also gets the Sun as he is the man.
The other girl in my opinion gets Saturn, which is retrograde in Aquarius, own sign, from where it receives Sun in detriment (him as a man) and doesn't have interest in Venus (him as a person thinking/feeling) at all. It's indifferent. So I see that he is infatuated by her at the moment, but exaltation tends not to last. And we see that Saturn (her) is indifferent to Venus.

Also one thing which intrigued my interest is Algol right on his ASC - head (My DSC). And we know that Algol represents losing someone's head. In this case it means metaphorically so I read that as that he is losing his head for this girl, he might think of her in exaggarated good way (exaltation) but that won't last, and will end badly (Algol). Correct me if I'm wrong.
I also don't like the fact that she is represented by Saturn retrograde, she's not his ex, so that doesn't make sense in the context. They've known each other for some time.

There is applying trine between their significators, and as my question was will they break up, I would interpret this as a yes, they will, in 8-9 somethings. Because my question has a timeframe - until the end of this year - Years are not the option here. 8-9 months, I wouldn't think so because that would transfer to next year and we are concerned only with this one. So that leaves us with hours, days and weeks. Because the aspect happens from 10th house (longest period) and cardinal sign (fastest) that gives us medium time frame which would be days in this case.
I also wanted to know if we are to get together but can't see anything that could indicate that.

Please post your opinions on this, it would be highly appreciated.

I posted the charts with and without outer planets.
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Last edited by andrea2709; 08-17-2021 at 01:14 PM. Reason: Spelling
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Unread 08-17-2021, 02:24 PM
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Re: Will they break up?

There is only a separating aspect between your significators, so I don't see anything about you two coming together, either.

When it comes to your interpretation, I wouldn't take the trine as a ''yes, they will break up''. Both of their significators are strong by sign and as you said, Venus exalts Saturn and it's about to trine it, so I say they get along pretty well. By looking at this, your ex is the one that is more interested for now.

Saturn being retrograde might mean there will be a change of heart on the side of the girl, she'll change her opinion about the relationship she has with your ex when Saturn turns direct. Also, since you mentioned they could not meet before, her appearing as a planet in retrograde checks out, she returned from ''the past''.

I am no expert, so feel free to take everything I said with a grain of salt, but I think your ex's attention is pointed towards his new love interest and since the only aspect between you two is a separating one, he's ready to move on.

Take into consideration horary charts are temporary charts and the situation can still develop in a different way.

I hope some of the more experienced members can also share their opinions and maybe some of them have a more optimistic outlook than I do.

Last edited by lunaluna; 08-17-2021 at 02:27 PM.
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Unread 08-17-2021, 03:22 PM
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Re: Will they break up?

Hi lunaluna, thank you for your interpretation. There's something about it that I don't understand. Since there's applying aspect between their significators, and like you said that wouldn't point out to the breakup, what aspect would we need to show actual breakup happening? And what about this Algol on his ASC, I think it alone can show their relationship coming to an end, when considering what Algol symbolizes - Misfortune, loosing one's head. It isn't floating around the chart or in a middle of house, it's right on his head basically, so it must be significant.

Thank you in advance!
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Unread 08-17-2021, 04:08 PM
lunaluna lunaluna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea2709 View Post
Hi lunaluna, thank you for your interpretation. There's something about it that I don't understand. Since there's applying aspect between their significators, and like you said that wouldn't point out to the breakup, what aspect would we need to show actual breakup happening? And what about this Algol on his ASC, I think it alone can show their relationship coming to an end, when considering what Algol symbolizes - Misfortune, loosing one's head. It isn't floating around the chart or in a middle of house, it's right on his head basically, so it must be significant.

Thank you in advance!
Aspects don’t literally translate to a “yes” or “no”. They signify some sort of action and the nature of the aspect tells you what kind of action it will be. So, in this case - a trine, an easy aspect together with both significators being strong in their sign doesn’t exactly point to a break up scene. If they were in deteiment, fall or having a difficult aspect like a square you could say “they are about to break up”. Uranus is the “break-up” planet so you would, for example, also look at the aspects the planet is making. You look at the whole picture and see what it’s all telling you.
Algol is on his ASC but his ASC is your DSC as well, so you could also interpret it as relating to you and not strictly to him.
Planets and other parts of the chart can take on several meanings. Also, for the sake of keeping things simple, it’s best to look at the significators and what story are they telling and look for additional info or clarifications elsewhere.

An example: I once asked whether or not my bf wanted to break up with me and uranus was on his asc. Guess what, I broke up with him and not the other way around, and by just looking at the position of uranus, one could have made the rash decision of saying yes, he wants to break up.

I received guidance and advice from members of this forum that helped me see the situation in a clearer way and understand it better and most of what I am telling you now comes from them so i really hope they will chime in as well and share their 2 cents. I hope you found this useful!
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  #5  
Unread 08-17-2021, 05:21 PM
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Re: Will they break up?

In case of Uranus being on DSC I would definitely say relationship coming to an end, I would not say from which side though, but certainly an end. But this is Algol, not Uranus, they have different meanings. Even if we would consider natural meaning of 7th house - it's relationship, and Algol being there brings misfortune to a relationship. I no longer have a relationship with him so that can't be related to us, only him and her as they are currently together. It doesn't make sense to me that Algol is relating to me in this case. If it was on my ASC, I would interpret it that it's related to me. In this case it's in his part of the chart. That's just my point of view. Thank you for your interpretation!
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Unread 08-17-2021, 05:21 PM
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Re: Will they break up?

Anyone else to comment on this? I would love to hear your opinions!
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Unread 08-17-2021, 06:38 PM
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Re: Will they break up?

Hi lunaluna, could you please tell me where do you got this from? This thing about applying good aspect bringing good results, (in this case them staying together) and bad ones bad results? (which would bring a breakup) Is there any book where you have read that, or article maybe?
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Unread 08-17-2021, 06:41 PM
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Re: Will they break up?

Will you/Mars and him/Venus get together?

Venus separates and does not apply to aspect Mars, rather is disjunct. You two are not the same page; don't get what the other one is thinking.

The applying trine between them, him/Venus applying to her/Saturn as she returns to him by retrograde motion, points to their coming together, not breaking up.

SN in the 1st is not favorable for you in this matter.
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Unread 08-17-2021, 07:30 PM
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Re: Will they break up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea2709 View Post
Hi lunaluna, could you please tell me where do you got this from? This thing about applying good aspect bringing good results, (in this case them staying together) and bad ones bad results? (which would bring a breakup) Is there any book where you have read that, or article maybe?
Here's one of the many articles:

https://mithras93.tripod.com/lessons...4/lesson4.html

another one that mentions aspects:

https://www.skyscript.co.uk/relationships.html

Just to give some clarification: aspects don't mean yes or no by default, as I mentioned previously, they don't literally translate to a yes or no answer. There's a trine or a sextile, this is a yes, there is a square so this is a no. Receptions play a big role as well, which is why it's important to look at the whole picture. You could have a trine but both significators being in fall or detriment and in this case, it would just mean there will be some kind of action (that's what an aspect represents, something happening, an interaction between the planets, the significators. You judge and interpret what that interaction will be like based on receptions and the kind of aspect it is. In your case, we have Saturn strong by sign and Venus strong by sign, Venus exalting Saturn and on top of all of that there's an applying trine between them - everything points to them getting together and not growing apart. How serious that connection is and how lasting will it be is something I can't tell you and horaries are temporary anyway, so they might break up sometime in the future, that's for sure, it just doesn't seem likely it will happen now.

When it comes to Algol, it can mean several things, it can bring transformation, it can point to alcohol addiction, so I am not sure what meaning to give it here.

And to reply to the remark you made before, I didn't mean that Algol and Uranus are the same, I just wanted to point out that celestial bodies can take different meanings, so although Algol is on your ex's ASC, it's also your DSC so it could, somehow, relate to you - it can mean you have many different thoughts and feelings related to your ex and your relationship, you being confused as to how to interpret the situation and so on.
Note that Chiron is in your 5th of relationships, lessons to be learned through pain and as Ilene pointed out, the south node is in your first house.

I am not saying I am right and you are wrong, I am just giving my opinion hoping we can both learn something from this

Also, I don't claim to know how you're feeling right now, but I've been in similar situations in the past year and I know it's not easy, but it gets better.
I truly wish you all the best, Andrea
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  #10  
Unread 08-17-2021, 08:02 PM
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Re: Will they break up?

Okay so applying trine is them coming together? How is that so if they already are together? I mean what would aspect signify in already established relationship?
She is not his ex though, so she can't 'return' to him. I think retrograde motion here is accidental debility.
Thank you IleneK
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Last edited by andrea2709; 08-17-2021 at 08:05 PM.
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Unread 08-17-2021, 08:23 PM
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Re: Will they break up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea2709 View Post
Okay so applying trine is them coming together? How is that so if they already are together? I mean what would aspect signify in already established relationship?
She is not his ex though, so she can't 'return' to him. I think retrograde motion here is accidental debility.
Thank you IleneK
You are welcome, andrea.
Part of the problem is the complexity of the compound question that you posed. Questions are to be simple and clear, well thought out and considered. My sense is that your true underlying question, what matters to you, isn't will they break up; it's will you get back together. As in
"So I wanted to know 'Will they break up and will we get together until the end of 2021?"
And to reply to your question of how can they come together later if they are together now?
Well, perhaps he is, as you say, only infatuated with her now, but comes to love her. And she may have been less interested now due to her or his infatuation and then turns toward him by Rx later.
This is just one possible explanation.
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Last edited by IleneK; 08-17-2021 at 08:26 PM.
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Unread 08-18-2021, 07:07 AM
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Re: Will they break up?

LunaLuna gave a very good reply.
Will they break up?
Their two significators should be separating from an aspect between them or applying to aspect with Uranus or mars, but they are not. So no, they will not break up.
Will you and he be together?
There is no connection between the two significators, so no.

He has NN in his house, so he is in a good position.
You have SN, so you are in a weak position.

The moon in the horary also indicates what the querent is asking about, and here it is in the 1st house.
So we might also consider giving the ascendent to his new partner, which is what was on your mind when you asked the question. In this case we have Venus, ruler of 7th, approaching a trine to co-significator of the ascendent, so they are together and will not break up.
The second question would also involve the ascendent as you, querent, asking about you and him in the 7th.
In this case, we use moon for you, approaching the conjunction with south node. So again a no answer. In addition mars, co-significator of the querent, will receive a square from moon, further negative.
Note Chiron in your 5th, we see you suffering from this, but learning acceptance is also a lesson of life.
Can you begin to move your energy from him and towards a new potential partner?
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Unread 08-18-2021, 07:12 AM
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Re: Will they break up?

I read the additional replies after writing mine, and we are all on the same thought wave.
Andrea, it isn't easy to let go, but that's what the chart is suggesting that you do.
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Unread 08-18-2021, 12:03 PM
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Re: Will they break up?

The Venus trine Saturn aspect is frustrated by the Moon who gets to Venus first.
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Unread 08-18-2021, 12:41 PM
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Re: Will they break up?

Actually moon is translating light from Venus to Saturn.
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Unread 08-18-2021, 03:29 PM
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Re: Will they break up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post

The applying trine between them, him/Venus applying to her/Saturn as she returns to him by retrograde motion, points to their coming together, not breaking up.
I quote John Frawley here who I just asked about this on Andrea's behalf:

'Trines show things that happen easily but says nothing about whether these things are good or bad, nice or nasty. The best things can happen with great difficulty, and things that happen easily can be horrible. It is unusual for an applying aspect between the two people's planets to show them splitting up.'
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  #17  
Unread 08-18-2021, 04:10 PM
The Everqueen The Everqueen is online now
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Re: Will they break up?

There could be a Collection of Light here too - where they are applying but have not yet perfected... Saturn > Moon > Venus - in which case Saturn will bring the Moon and Sun together... Just a thought!
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  #18  
Unread 08-18-2021, 05:00 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Will they break up?

Evergreen, I don't think so. The fastest moving object collects from one and brings to another, connecting them. In this case, fast moon from Venus to Saturn.
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Unread 08-18-2021, 07:05 PM
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Re: Will they break up?

Actually when faster moving planet applies to one planet and then to the other, that is Translation of Light.
Collection is different. It's when 2 planets that are fast in motion, are applying to 3rd planet which is slower than these two.
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  #20  
Unread 08-18-2021, 08:09 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Will they break up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Evergreen, I don't think so. The fastest moving object collects from one and brings to another, connecting them. In this case, fast moon from Venus to Saturn.
Sorry my use of the word "collects" here does not mean there is collection of light.
The meaning here is that the fastest moving object "gathers" from one and brings to another.
Sorry if this was confusing.
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  #21  
Unread 08-18-2021, 08:30 PM
The Everqueen The Everqueen is online now
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Re: Will they break up?

According to Maurice McCann there are three forms of collection of light.

1. where the two significators have already separated from each other
2. where they are applying but have not yet perfected
3. where no major aspect exists between them

In each case both significators apply to a third planet within moiety of orbs and this third planet collects both their lights. Furthermore, the collecting planet is able to collect more than one pair of significators, or planets, provided they are within moiety of orbs.

There are also three forms of translation of light.

1. where the two significators have already separated from each other
2. where they are applying but have not yet perfected
3. where no major aspect exists between them.

In each case a fast moving planet separates from one and applies to the other within moiety of orbs and translates both their lights. Furthermore, the translating planet is able to translate more than one pair of significators, or planets, provided they are within moiety of orbs.

Hope that helps!

Last edited by The Everqueen; 08-18-2021 at 08:51 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #22  
Unread 08-20-2021, 01:51 PM
betelgeusesirius betelgeusesirius is offline
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Re: Will they break up?

Complicated situation, but the main question is whether you and him are going to be back together.

You are Mars, He is Venus.
Moon connects Venus and Mercury, Mercury is conjunct Mars.
So Mercury holds the light from Venus that Moon delivered, and gives it to Mars.
You two are probably going to have an event, but not necessarily a positive one as there are too many planets involved. However, Mercury receives Mars so doesn't look bad.

Please, please, I beg for a feedback!
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  #23  
Unread 08-20-2021, 08:34 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Will they break up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by betelgeusesirius View Post
Complicated situation, but the main question is whether you and him are going to be back together.

You are Mars, He is Venus.
Moon connects Venus and Mercury, Mercury is conjunct Mars.
So Mercury holds the light from Venus that Moon delivered, and gives it to Mars.
You two are probably going to have an event, but not necessarily a positive one as there are too many planets involved. However, Mercury receives Mars so doesn't look bad.

Please, please, I beg for a feedback!
Perhaps too many passages to arrive at an aspect between the significators.
It sounds a bit like a shot on a billiard table hitting balls off each other.
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