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  #1  
Unread 04-17-2016, 10:53 PM
UNOIT UNOIT is offline
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Correspondence between Natal aspects and Transits

Hi

I am looking for some feedback regarding Natal aspects with the same two planets being involved in Transits.

Let’s presume the birthtime is unknown – i.e. the House Cusps are unknown and that Mars and Saturn have no other aspects to the other planets

In each of these scenarios, what effect would the following transits have?

All told I am looking at 50 different scenarios as shown in the attached image [transit.gif]


I have held the belief, that if a native has Mars trine Saturn, that the transits of Mars conjunct, sextile and trine Saturn would be beneficial, whereas the transits of Mars square or opposite Saturn would have little, if any effect. Conversely, if a native has Mars square Saturn, the transits of Mars conjunct, square or opposite Saturn would definitely indicate challenges, whereas the transits of Mars sextile or trine Saturn would have little, if any effect. I would apply the same logic to the transits of Saturn to Mars.

What have your experiences shown you?

TIA
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  #2  
Unread 04-17-2016, 11:05 PM
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Samantha Bean Samantha Bean is offline
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Re: Correspondence between Natal aspects and Transits

There is no hard and fast rule that for one size fits all. Each chart is different. You can't separate out the signs and the houses and come up with anything meaningful, since everything fits together. If you change one element of the picture, then the whole picture changes.

If this wasn't true and it was a linear as you project it to be, then you wouldn't need astrologers and you could just let computers do it.
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  #3  
Unread 04-18-2016, 05:48 PM
UNOIT UNOIT is offline
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Re: Correspondence between Natal aspects and Transits

If the birth time is unknown or unreliable then it is impossible to incorporate houses into an overall interpretation - one may resort to rectification - but that is still guesswork.

After one does a complete synthesis of the natal chart, another step is to analyze transits - the only way that one can do this is to interpret each transit aspect - and then incorporate this information into an overview.

To simplify - if a person has natal aspect of Mars square Saturn, and Mars and Saturn have no aspects to any other planets, the various transits of Mars and Saturn that make aspects to this particular natal configuration will result in different effects, viz, conjunct, sextile, square, trine and opposition. My contention in this example is that a sextile and trine will have little, if any effect on the natal Mars square Saturn. I refer to this as corresponding aspects - i.e. natal sextiles and trines will have more correspondence with transiting sextiles and trines, squares and oppositions with squares and opposition, and natal conjunctions and these groups of transits will vary based on the nature of the two planets involved. The feedback I am seeking is whether or not experienced astrologers agree or disagree with this observation. A transit such as this may be the only significant aspect during a particular time period - so it needs to be interpreted on its own. I intentionally omitted houses and signs so as not to convolute the matter at hand.
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Unread 04-18-2016, 09:50 PM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: Correspondence between Natal aspects and Transits

When there is no valid birth time known, you can still look at the aspects through each planet's individual function through sign and how these inter-relate with each other.

Taking your example in very simple form; Mars is hot and fast, Saturn is cold and slow. A natural conflict not only of planet but also of ruling signs.
Mars is the ignition power of the motor; Saturn is the bolts, screws and steel that give the machine its outer form.

In transits, Mars will activate the whole natal aspect for only a few weeks max., according to orb of the aspect, unless retrograde motion is involved. Yet when transit Saturn activates the aspect, it can take months to complete it. The method of the message from each is different, yet in handling the same theme that the aspect represents.
A transit from Mars could well heat things up. It might be a good thing that
Saturn is there to cool them down. If Mars wants to get things done quickly, Saturn could well provide the caution, concentration, and protective self discipline necessary to combat impulsiveness. Yet Mars can also give Saturn the boost of strength to attempt and try something (new) without loss of face, respect, or fear of failure.
Saturn is often said 'to wear the cap of authority.' It's interesting to note how many 'caps' of different sizes there are that often have that Mars-Saturn signature in harsh aspect.

An issue with transiting aspects is that it's generally the harsh ones that are noticed because they present the current challenge to be met. The soft aspects do have an effect but can go unnoticed because, who ever has issues when circumstances turn out well?

My ½cent worth.
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  #5  
Unread 04-19-2016, 12:23 AM
UNOIT UNOIT is offline
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Re: Correspondence between Natal aspects and Transits

@ Frisiangal. I should mention that I have studied and practised Astrology for over thirty years. I am quite familiar with the attributes of Mars and Saturn.

What I am trying to get at is some consensus regarding what I call corresponding aspects. As I have mentioned, it is my belief that unless the aspects correspond they will have little, if any effect.

For example
If the native has Mars trine or sextile Saturn, then a Mars or Saturn transit that is sextile or trine to either the natal Mars or Saturn will "enhance" the Mars trine or sextile Saturn natal aspect. However, if a Mars or Saturn transit is square or opposite to either the natal Mars or Saturn it will have little effect, although it may activate the natal trine or sextile in a minimal manner. A Mars transit that is conjunct this natal Mars trine Saturn should also enhance the energy that is created with a natal Mars trine Saturn.

I would apply this same logic to a native with Mars square or opposite Saturn - a Mars or Saturn transit that is sextile or trine to either the natal Mars or Saturn will have little effect.

Perhaps there is someone who has encountered a native with Mars sextile/trine Saturn and when the transiting Mars or Saturn made a square to this natal aspect - they found that this transit energized the natal Mars sextile/trine aspect. This is the kind of feedback I am looking for.

@Kitchy
When I do a chart with an unknown birthtime - I use 12 noon as the time - this way the Moon's position will have the least unknown error. The main reason I used the example of an unknown birthtime is that I wanted to avoid any discusssion about Houses and Rulers.

I have done some rectification viz Alan Leo and "Progressions, Directions and Rectification" by Zipporah Pottenger Dobyns - but it is still guesswork.

And with respect to corresponding aspects - I have seen a client with Venus trine Jupiter and I can readily say that when the transiting Venus or Jupiter formed a trine or sextile to this natal aspect - it definitely enhanced this "beneficial" energy - whereas a square or opposition of the transiting Venus or Jupiter had little, if any effect.

This is the kind of feedback I am looking for.

Yes, I am well aware that one needs a comprehensive approach to interpreting the natal chart - but this is not what I am looking at - thus I am hopeful that this discussion can focus on two natal planets that are in aspect along with the same two planets forming transit aspects to this natal aspect. Sorry for any confusion.
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  #6  
Unread 04-19-2016, 02:48 AM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Correspondence between Natal aspects and Transits

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNOIT View Post
Hi

I am looking for some feedback regarding Natal aspects with the same two planets being involved in Transits.

Let’s presume the birthtime is unknown – i.e. the House Cusps are unknown and that Mars and Saturn have no other aspects to the other planets

In each of these scenarios, what effect would the following transits have?

All told I am looking at 50 different scenarios as shown in the attached image [transit.gif]


I have held the belief, that if a native has Mars trine Saturn, that the transits of Mars conjunct, sextile and trine Saturn would be beneficial, whereas the transits of Mars square or opposite Saturn would have little, if any effect. Conversely, if a native has Mars square Saturn, the transits of Mars conjunct, square or opposite Saturn would definitely indicate challenges, whereas the transits of Mars sextile or trine Saturn would have little, if any effect. I would apply the same logic to the transits of Saturn to Mars.

What have your experiences shown you?

TIA
I understand what you are saying. It seems to be essentially, the theory of 'natal promise.' Thus if the native has no negative aspects between Mars/Saturn, then a Mars/Saturn negative transit will not have an adverse affect.

It makes sense, in theory. But I am not sure it holds water. I know of one real life example where it might not have worked in the way you described.

My cousin is a long time student of astrology. She and I talked a lot about the election chart of her new 'home business.' She had been an elementary school teacher for about 5 years and really loved it. But when she turned 30 she decided to stay home with her young twins. And she decided to start an after school tutoring business out of her home to earn some extra income.

She has Saturn in Libra in a very tight trine to Mars in Aquarius. Kids loved the animated way she spoke and explained things. And she was fun and really wanted to impart the knowledge and to help her students understand the material. She began planning the business during her Saturn return in Libra in the 7th. Things went smoothly and she got the proper permits and began taking on students. Word of mouth spread quickly and soon she had a full schedule and was loving it.

But as time went on, and Saturn left airy Libra and entered Scorpio and her 8th, things took a bad turn. It had happened slowly over about a year. She had wanted to tutor elementary students. But it was mostly middle school students that parents needed tutoring for. They paid better and were more 'desperate' for help. But the students were increasingly difficult for her to work with. They were often resistant, rude and even somewhat aggressive at times.

Suddenly the Saturn in Scorpio squaring her Mars was evident. She was no longer teaching from a Libra trine Aquarius perspective. The children were not cooperative and willing to learn, as it was when she first opened her business. Over time, her student clientele had changed and gotten older and more challenging.

Even though she did not have a challenging Mars/Saturn in her own chart, she was experiencing the effects of Saturn in Scorpio square Mars in Aquarius through that transit. She was forced to try to discipline unruly clients, and had to deal with clueless parents who had no idea how rude and aggressive their kids were at times. When her twins entered kindergarten she went back to the classroon and taught 2nd grade. LOL

Last edited by katydid; 04-19-2016 at 02:52 AM.
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Unread 04-19-2016, 09:05 AM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: Correspondence between Natal aspects and Transits

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNOIT;672309[QUOTE
]@ Frisiangal. I should mention that I have studied and practised Astrology for over thirty years. I am quite familiar with the attributes of Mars and Saturn.
[
The pseudonym was unfamiliar and with so few posts I presumed you were in a theory versus practise of astrology phase. Apologies for the mistake.

Quote:
What I am trying to get at is some consensus regarding what I call corresponding aspects. As I have mentioned, it is my belief that unless the aspects correspond they will have little, if any effect.


You are saying that this has been your consistent (personal) experience over 30 years of studying charts?
Could it have anything to do with a particular mindset that may not see an alternative perspective so easily? (My own mercury in Earth has such difficulty with 'theories')
What may also be of note is that most clients will visit an astrologer when there are some issues with which they contend. This may correlate to the periods when the transiting planets form the harsh aspects to their natal aspects. Does anyone ever ask for your advice when they are going through a happy period?


Quote:
For example
Yes, I am well aware that one needs a comprehensive approach to interpreting the natal chart - but this is not what I am looking at - thus I am hopeful that this discussion can focus on two natal planets that are in aspect along with the same two planets forming transit aspects to this natal aspect. Sorry for any confusion.
Are you thinking in terms of the outing of character effect of the two planets concerned? That, in spite of ever changing conditions of situations, as a result of other planetary alignments (e.g. progressions), the natal
aspect will always approach them in and through the same basic characteristic nature?

Your example with Mars-Saturn does allow for more opportunties for transits to occur than with personal to outer planets.
Would you consider there to be a difference between the harsh and soft transiting effects of the outers to their natal aspect?


Last edited by Frisiangal; 04-19-2016 at 09:08 AM.
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  #8  
Unread 04-20-2016, 12:14 AM
UNOIT UNOIT is offline
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Re: Correspondence between Natal aspects and Transits

Hi.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm quite busy today - I hope to post some info tomorrow.

Thanks again.
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  #9  
Unread 04-20-2016, 12:30 AM
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Re: Correspondence between Natal aspects and Transits

UNOIT knows it and the rest of us don't it?

Yeah, when Jupiter conjuncts natal Jupiter - the world is one's oyster. If they have placed and harvested Saturn correctly.
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  #10  
Unread 04-20-2016, 10:54 PM
UNOIT UNOIT is offline
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Re: Correspondence between Natal aspects and Transits

@katydid
Thank you for sharing that. This is the kind of feedback I was looking for.

The only time that I could find Mars in Aquarius trine Saturn in Libra would be Jan 1981

Is that correct?

If so, Jupiter and Saturn would be conjunct and natal Mars would be square natal N Node in Leo

Then while transiting Saturn is conjunct natal Saturn, the transiting Mars in Scorpio would square the N Node and later on the transiting Mars in Taurus would square the natal N Node while transiting Saturn would still be conjunct natal Saturn [Saturn being retrograde at that time]. The rudeness and aggresiveness could have come from this.

If this isn't the case - maybe you could pm me your cousin's birth data - there may be progressions to consider, or parallels to look at or lunations - especially eclipses.

@Frisiangal
Thanks for the feedback.

I should have mentioned that I have been studying astrology off and on for over thirty years - so there have been some gaps - however, I have spent considerable time the last five years. I felt a bit sheepish after mentioning that - I did not want to sound like a dik.

I haven't met a lot of people with Mars square Saturn - I have it - and I never noticed any effect when transiting Mars or Saturn were sextile/trine - but I sure have noticed the effects when they were conjunct, square or opposite. I just recently went through my 2nd Saturn return. I have seen clients with Mars square Uranus and I noticed the same thing. Also natal aspects of Venus sextile/trine Jupiter - beneficial effects with transiting Venus or Jupiter conjunct, sextile or trine - and no "challenging" effects with square or opposite. Obviously this is a small size compared to the world at large - that's why I want as much feedback as possible.

You raise a good point that many people seek out an astrologer when times are tough and less likely to do so when things are "easier".

What have your experiences been with these sorts of aspects?

I'm glad you mentioned progressions - I think they are very important as well - especially the progressed Moon acting as a trigger as well as New Moons and Eclipses

Regarding harsh and soft transits of the outer planets to their natal aspects.

Re: Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and the N Node

I have seen the same thing viz. Mars-Saturn

You might want to check out Richard Tarnas - Cosmos and Pysche - a very scholary book - a very dense volume that goes into great detail regarding historic aspects between the outer planets [no mention of N Node]. As far as I can see his focus is on conjunctions, squares and oppisitons - I haven't read the whole book - but I did not see any mention of the "soft aspects"

He also has a website: https://cosmosandpsyche.com/

@kitchy
Quote:
UNOIT knows it and the rest of us don't it?
I don't know what you mean by that - if I offended you - I apologize.

I know a fair amount about astrology as do many other astrolgers - that is why I posted on this forum - there are a lot of very knowledgeable people here. This is why I wanted feedback, in order to come to some consensus. I feel that consensus is very important as it gives reliablility and validity to astrology.

Tomorrow I hope to post some info regarding how I look at transits and classify the various "corresponding aspects".

Thanks everyone.

Last edited by UNOIT; 04-20-2016 at 11:41 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #11  
Unread 04-20-2016, 11:25 PM
Kitchy Kitchy is offline
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Re: Correspondence between Natal aspects and Transits

Truthfully?

I'm still unsure at what you are trying to determine - hence unoit and I don't.
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Unread 04-21-2016, 02:00 AM
UNOIT UNOIT is offline
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Re: Correspondence between Natal aspects and Transits

Hi

I am enclosing a gif that shows all of the transits for one month for a client of mine.

I have excluded the transiting Moon - typically there are about 98 transits of the Moon in one month

A small study I did showed me that a person will have 30 to 40 transits in a month

Out of these 30-40 transits there will be about 1/3 of them that involve the same two planets - i.e. the two planets have a natal aspect - and they have a transit to natal aspect.

I divide these "corresponding tranists" into six groups:

1. colur coded: green
transiting sextiles/trines with natal sextiles/trines
transiting conjunctions with natal sextiles/trines

2. color-coded: red
transiting squares/oppositions with natal semisquares/squares/sesquisquares/quincunxes/oppositions

3. color-coded: blue
transiting conjunctions with natal conjunctions

4. color-coded: magenta
transiting conjunctions with natal semisquares/squares/sesquisquares/quincunxes/oppositions

transiting squares/oppositions with natal conjunctions

5. color-coded: orange
transiting squares/oppositons with natal sextiles/trines

6. color-coded: cyan
transiting sextiles/trine with natal semisquares/squares/sesquisquares/quincunxes/oppositions

Over a 12 month period - there were 412 transits - out of these - 144 of them involved the same two planets - and out of these 47 were group 1 and 23 were group 2

I find that this is a good way to whittle down 412 transits down to 144 transits - then down to 70 transits.

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File Type: gif MonthofTransits.gif (35.3 KB, 56 views)
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  #13  
Unread 04-21-2016, 10:04 AM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: Correspondence between Natal aspects and Transits

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNOIT View Post
@Frisiangal
Thanks for the feedback.

I haven't met a lot of people with Mars square Saturn - I have it - and I never noticed any effect when transiting Mars or Saturn were sextile/trine - but I sure have noticed the effects when they were conjunct, square or opposite.
I used to be close to someone who had a very large 6 planet stellium in the 3rd house, of which Sun-Venus-Saturn, and Saturn-Jupiter-Uranus were all square to a 1st house Mars in intercepted sign. Mars square Saturn was the closest aspect in the Fixed signs, so linked the whole stellium.

His mum took her life in his early youth, he had an estranged relationship with his father, left home at 17 never to return, was taken in by relatives of whom one aunt became his surrogate mother. He was unruly. Yet he got himself back on the rails (pardon Mars-Saturn pun), took evening classes after a full-time job, and became a teacher. Raging hormones took him into a shotgun marriage (tr. Saturn conjunct natal mars), yet he still retained that Mars-Saturn ambition to make something of himself. When we met again after many years, following a funeral, he had a B.E. degree and was head teacher. He said, "I don't know if I am who I am because of my youth or in spite of it" and "I wanted you to know that I DID IT." That sounded such a Mars-Saturn statement to me. A few years later he became one of the first headmasters of a newly instigated combined school for 5-16 year olds until his retirement.
I don't know how transiting Mars and Saturn aspects to natal affected him throughout his adult life, yet they must have presented the challenges and perseverence to a natal configuration that made him into who we was.

Saturn is said to show where our weak spot lies; it can have a strong relationship with chronic conditions. He obviously had his weaknesses through other aspects of the chart to natal Mars-Saturn. I learnt recently that he had suffered a severe (Saturn) stroke (Mars influence) several years ago, yet he managed to find the energy of will to combat the effects of that too.

Quote:
I just recently went through my 2nd Saturn return.
Which would aptly explain your interest.

Quote:
What have your experiences been with these sorts of aspects?
I have a natal Mars-45*-Uranus, as well as a Saturn-90*-Neptune. Saturn and Uranus could be considered rulers of my 6th house. Every planet in my chart seems to have been affected by a physical, yet not serious, condition at some time or the other. I have a passion for medical astrology, so what can I expect if I want to learn the practise of the theories?

Tr. Saturn square natal Neptune. I returned to work after pregnancies. Employer was a company that produced aromatic perfumes(Neptune).

Tr. Saturn (and tr. Jupiter) conjunct Neptune in Libra coincided with picking up the beautifully illustrated book cover that was in the wrong section of the library(children's stories!!). It was Parker's Compleat Astrologer.
This was followed by Tr. Uranus opposition itself (Gemini) when I began first astrology course.

Tr. Saturn (with tr. Uranus) opposing itself in Gemini 10th coincided with the decision to enrol and study medical astrology. First lesson on a
SATURday at exact Retrograde to Direct opposition.

Tr. Saturn to natal/sec. progr. Neptune (in 2nd house)again, coincided with getting a pension windfall over payments made in U.K. when in my teens!!! I spent it all on my (then) 5 granddaughters and 2 daughters on a SATURday trip to the musical production of Mary Poppins. ... at a major theatre on the coast!

I have to watch for irrational temper outburst whenever tr. Mars is conjunct or square natal Uranus. Soft aspects surely have an effect, yet I don't pin them down.

Tr. Mars in 8th exact degree square natal Mars on Son's birth;
tr.Mars conjunct tr. Uranus inconjunct natal Uranus on daughter's birth. She was too early and could hardly wait to arrive at the hospital to be born. Phew!

Tr. Mars is now exact opposition to natal Uranus (following tr. Saturn's of the same ). A long-term discomfort of the sciatica nerve (Sagittarius area, natal Saturn on nerve pain degree!) has finally meant undergoing physiotherapy, especially across ischium, vertebrae(Uranus) and buttock (also Sagittarius). This reached an acute(Mars) stadium last week with severe pain along the lower leg(Aquarius) nerve. Massage of the muscle (Mars) has eased the pain considerably and I definitely feel that the worst is over.
I'm working on the psychological aspect of it all as well. 'Pain in the butt' and all that.

Although I agree with you that harsh aspects can present challenges, I also believe it depends upon what one consideres to be challenging. E.G. My strong Earthy side is known for its materially-minded side. It didn't (and doesn't) stop me from not thinking of the cost when treating my girls.....although I do keep 'value for money' in mind.

Quote:
You might want to check out Richard Tarnas - Cosmos and Pysche - a very scholary book - a very dense volume that goes into great detail regarding historic aspects between the outer planets [no mention of N Node]. As far as I can see his focus is on conjunctions, squares and oppisitons - I haven't read the whole book - but I did not see any mention
of the "soft aspects"

He also has a website: https://cosmosandpsyche.com/
I'm familar with the name but don't have any of his work on the book shelves. I will check out the website.

Last edited by Frisiangal; 04-21-2016 at 10:07 PM. Reason: additional information
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Unread 04-21-2016, 11:05 PM
UNOIT UNOIT is offline
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Re: Correspondence between Natal aspects and Transits

@Kitchy

I should have included headings for the output I previously posted - it is pretty straightforward:

Date Range| TPlanet | Aspect | NPlanet | TPosition | NPosition | Corresponding NPlanet-Aspect-NPlanet

I am enclosing client's planetary positions and natal aspects - this should give you the information you requested. I use P for parallels and CP for contra-parallels.



I have two different transit-natal aspect generators - the results I posted were from the one that does not do parallels/contra-parallels nor transiting N Node - the other one does these.

I also use the same approach with Progressed aspects to natal along with corresponding aspects.

I also look at lunations to natal positions - as well as lunations to progressions.

If you want, I can post the Transit-Natal aspects showing parallels and contra-parallels, as well as the Progressed-Natal aspects.

How about sharing some of your experiences with transits to natal positions?


@Frisiangal
Thank you so much for your post - indeed this is the feedback I am looking for.

Re your friends experiences - "yet they must have presented the challenges and perseverence to a natal configuration that made him into who we was"

I agree that the challenges provide more opportunity for growth - it certainly requires a lot of discipline, hard work, patience and persistence.

Those transits of yours that you mentioned are very interesting.

I agree that Saturn is responsible for chronic/persistent health complaints.

I have dabbled a bit with Medical Astrolgy. Are you familiar with Max Heindel? - Astro-Diagnosis A Guide To Healing by Max Heindel and Augusta Foss Heindel: A Treatise On Medical Astrology and Diagnosis From the Horoscope and Hand. It was written almost a hundred years ago - so the mentality and philosophy is a lot different than today.

http://www.rosicrucian.com/pdf_plaza...%20Healing.pdf

I actually took my first "official" astrology course from them in 1990 - they snail-mailed me the lessons - I mailed my answers to them - and they graded my answers along with hand-written comments - and they did this free of charge! I don't agree with all of Heindel's teachings - but he was a very smart astrologer - his Medical Astrology uses lots of Progressions viz. corresponding aspects.

I also have a copy of Medical Astrology by Eileen Nauman - she has a chapter on Medical Transits:
"Transits to Natal Planets and Their Health Implications, Transits to 6th House, Transits to 12th House". She also has a chapter on "Midpoint Structures and Medical Diagnosis".

Also I was able to get a copy of THE ASTROLOGICAL PHYSICIAN by William Andrews dated 1656! with praise from William Lily. This is/was in the public domain - it was a bad scan of an old book - but I was able to correct the spelling mistakes and olde English stuff and made a text file from it - if you want I can email it to you.

Re your sciatica et. al. - I urge you to check out Somatic Education, especially the book "Somatics" by Thomas Hanna.

http://www.amazon.com/Somatics-Reawa.../dp/0738209570

It will give you a whole new view regarding chronic pain and lack of mobility. He uses the term "sensory motor amnesia" and his success with thousands of clients proved his contention that most ailments are a result of sensory motor amnesia caused by what he calls habituation of Green light and Red light reflexes. Many times the problem is that the brain has forgotten how certain muscles act and react. Somatic education proves that sensory motor amnesia can be overcome. There are a number of websites and lots of youtube videos. If this is of interest to you I can email you some links.
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Unread 04-22-2016, 02:39 PM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: Correspondence between Natal aspects and Transits

[QUOTE=UNOIT;673021]

Quote:
@Frisiangal
I have dabbled a bit with Medical Astrolgy. Are you familiar with Max Heindel? - Astro-Diagnosis A Guide To Healing by Max Heindel and Augusta Foss Heindel: A Treatise On Medical Astrology and Diagnosis From the Horoscope and Hand. It was written almost a hundred years ago - so the mentality and philosophy is a lot different than today.
Nr. 1 on my favourites list, followed by "The Message of the Stars'at nr. 2.
Quote:
I also have a copy of Medical Astrology by Eileen Nauman - she has a chapter on Medical Transits:
"Transits to Natal Planets and Their Health Implications, Transits to 6th House, Transits to 12th House". She also has a chapter on "Midpoint Structures and Medical Diagnosis".
I google her name with/without body reference regularly.
My only ??? with her work is that she uses the hypothetical planets a lot.
I have great difficulty with that which doesn't exist.

Quote:
Also I was able to get a copy of THE ASTROLOGICAL PHYSICIAN by William Andrews dated 1656! with praise from William Lily. This is/was in the public domain - it was a bad scan of an old book - but I was able to correct the spelling mistakes and olde English stuff and made a text file from it - if you want I can email it to you.
I found it through Google....the whole text free. Amazing.

Quote:
Re your sciatica et. al. - I urge you to check out Somatic Education, especially the book "Somatics" by Thomas Hanna.


It will give you a whole new view regarding chronic pain and lack of mobility. He uses the term "sensory motor amnesia" and his success with thousands of clients proved his contention that most ailments are a result of sensory motor amnesia caused by what he calls habituation of Green light and Red light reflexes. Many times the problem is that the brain has forgotten how certain muscles act and react. Somatic education proves that sensory motor amnesia can be overcome. There are a number of websites and lots of youtube videos. If this is of interest to you I can email you some links.
Also found his work through Googling.
The school with which I studied taught and worked through the psychosomatic relationship of symptoms; i.e. holistic astrology. I have absolute faith in its teachings, although 'non-believers' think of me as a crackpot when mentioning that the possible reason for a physical complaint might be because ..........
As said already, I know what's behind my 'pain in the butt'.

Thank you for the links and success with your correspondence research.
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  #16  
Unread 04-23-2016, 11:30 PM
UNOIT UNOIT is offline
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Re: Correspondence between Natal aspects and Transits

Hi.

I am enclosing a real life example that prompted me to take a good long look at corresponding aspects many years ago:

The first column shows the Natal Aspects, the second column the Lunation Aspects to Natal, the third column the Progressed to Natal Aspects, the fourth column the Lunation Aspects to Progressed and the fifth column, Transits to Natal Aspects.

1stCase.gif


2ndCase.gif


The Sun-Moon symbols side-by-side denote a New Moon, the P refers to Progressed, the T refers to Transiting.

Here we have correspondence between Natal Aspects, Lunation Aspects to Natal, Progressed to Natal Aspects, Lunation Aspects to Progressed and Transits to Natal Aspects.

The Lunation marked SE is a Solar Eclipse. Of course, a lunation [New Moon] is a conjunction of the Sun and Moon. These two examples not only show the corespondence, but because they are all "in agreement" viz, squares and conjuncts in the first case, and trines and conjuncts in the second case, I call these "synchronized" corresponding aspects.

@Frisiangal
I agree - Medical Astrology by Eileen Nauman has a lot of extraneous information.

What other Medical Astrology books do you like?

And good luck to you with your "holistic astrology" - and getting rid of that "pain in the butt"

I trust you are familiar with Max Heindel - Simplified Scientific Astrology
http://www.rosicrucian.com/ssa/ssaeng01.htm
http://www.rosicrucian.com/ssa/ssaeng02.htm
http://www.rosicrucian.com/ssa/ssaeng03.htm
http://www.rosicrucian.com/ssa/ssaeng04.htm

Here are some excerpts re Lunations, Progressions and Transits

Quote:
Directions:
When a child is born it is immersed in an atmosphere charged with the stellar vibrations peculiar to that moment, which are stamped upon each atom of the sensitive organism by the air inhaled with the first breath. This planetary baptism is the basic cause of all the child's characteristics and idiosyncrasies; it gives certain tendencies which remain through life. This is the radix or radical horoscope which we carry about in our bodies and, whether we know it or not, it is the root of all events in life.

But the planets do not remain stationary in the positions they occupied at the time of our birth; their progress is eternal as is that of our Father in Heaven, and in time they form aspects other than those which they made at birth. These progressed configurations are called Directions, and they mark the time in life when events are due to occur.


Directions are of two kinds, primary and secondary.
Primary directions are formed between the progressed planets and their positions at birth. If, for instance, the Sun was in no degrees of Aries and Jupiter in 25 degrees of Leo at the birth of an individual, then, as the Sun moves forward in the Zodiac at about one degree a day, it will be trine with Jupiter about twenty-five days after birth. The system of time measurement of the planetary progression in general use reckons each day after birth equal to a year of life. Thus the said individual will meet with a very fortunate event in the twenty-fifth year. Aspects may also be formed between two progressed planets; to follow out the example given in the last paragraph, Jupiter would progress one or two degrees in the twenty-five days. It would then be in 26 or 27 degrees of Leo, and after the Sun had passed the trine with the radical Jupiter and it would come to the trine of the progressed Jupiter and this would prolong the fortunate influence for several years, though it should be borne in mind that the effect of aspects between two progressed planets is not so strong as when the configuration is between a progressed and a radical planet.

Secondary directions are formed by the progression of the Moon to aspects with the planets, particularly the radical. These lunar aspects are of vital importance, for unless the primary directions are supported by aspects of the progressed Moon which are of a similar nature, they come to naught. To illustrate by reference to the example of the Sun trine Jupiter. If at the time when that culminated, the progressed Moon had been in Gemini 25, sextile to both the Sun and Jupiter, that would have given a wonderfully favorable impetus to the event signified by the direction, but had the Moon been in Taurus 25, square to Jupiter it would have prevented the event and caused trouble instead. Had there been no secondary lunar direction at the time the event would have remained latent until the next lunar aspect of the progressed Moon either brought it out to life or withered it. Lunations (New Moons) are also powerful factors in energizing directions, particularly if they are eclipses. See 'Lunations' and 'Eclipses,' also 'Transits'.


Lunation:
A Lunation is a conjunction of the Sun and Moon, a 'New Moon.' In our ephemeris all New Moons, Full Moons, and eclipses are plainly marked at the head of the pages. When a lunation falls within three degrees of an aspect to any of the planets or other vital points in the radical horoscope it has a marked effect upon affairs during the current month, and will easily take the place of an aspect of the progressed Moon which is needed to fructify the planetary indications then in force. Even apart from primary directions, if a New Moon falls in close conjunction with a malefic, it will produce trouble in minor matters, and conversely, a lunation which falls on the place of Jupiter or Venus will make things pleasant. When a New Moon is a solar eclipse it produces first, the usual effect of a lunation during its current month, if in aspect with any of the radical planets, and secondly, similar effects during the months of the following year when aspects of the same nature are formed with the place of the eclipse.

That is to say, if the eclipse fell in the twelfth house in Leo, square to Mars in Scorpio, in the third house, then it would produce enmity with brothers and sisters during the month of August when the eclipse was formed. In November when the lunation occurs in Scorpio more fuel will be added to the fire by the square with the eclipse. In February when the Sun is in opposition to the eclipse there will be more trouble from the same source, and also in May when the last square occurs. Conversely, if the initial aspect of the eclipse is good, more benefit will be experienced during the months when sextiles and trines are formed.


At the moment a child is born the positions of the planets show the tendencies of the life. Those positions constitute the 'Radix,' and anything that has reference to that 'Root' of all events is called 'radical.' Thus, 'the radical Jupiter' refers to the position of Jupiter at a certain person's birth. During the next twenty, thirty or sixty days after birth the planets move on and make certain aspects to the positions held by them at birth. Each of these days corresponds to a year of life, and the aspects formed by the 'progression' on the twentieth day after birth will operate to bring about events in the twentieth year. The aspects formed on the thirty-fifth day after birth will determine the influences in the thirty-fifth year and so on. These are called 'progressed' positions and aspects. Thus, if someone says "My progressed Sun will be trine to my radical Jupiter when I am forty," he means that forty days after his birth the Sun had progressed to a trine aspect with the position of Jupiter at his birth, and that therefore this will operate in his fortieth year to bring about events of a fortunate nature, because the aspect and the planets are what is called good.

As the span of life is usually not more than seventy years, the planetary positions after seventy days from birth do not have as marked an effect as described in the foregoing paragraph, but they have nevertheless an appreciable influence on the lives of mankind, according to their natures. But because of the rapid transit made, the effects are ephemeral, even in the case of the slower planets. These movements of the planets are called 'transits.' They are found in the ephemeris for the current year.

Lunations, or New Moons, and eclipses are among the most important transits. Their effect is described under 'lunations,' which see. Next in importance are the transits of the superior planets through the houses. The tenth house signifies social honor. When Jupiter transits it every twelfth year, there will be opportunities for social advancement; when Saturn comes there once in thirty years, look out for setbacks and exert your will to overcome them; and you may judge in like manner about the other planets and houses.
Attached Images
File Type: gif 1stCase.gif (5.5 KB, 33 views)
File Type: gif 2ndCase.gif (12.4 KB, 33 views)
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  #17  
Unread 04-24-2016, 09:33 PM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: Correspondence between Natal aspects and Transits

Thanks for the further reply UNOIT.

I think today that there would be general disagreement with the section regarding 'Directions'.
What the author described as 'primary directions' is what today is considered to be 'secondary progressions'.; i.e. the arc of motion of each individual planet in the days = years following birth. Primary directions have a totally different (and difficult) calculation with which I'm not knowledgeable.
As far as I am aware, no astrological calculation today is called 'secondary direction'. The explanation describes the daily motion of the moon following birth, which is generally called 'secondary progressed Moon'.

Strange that the hypothetical Solar Arc Direction was not included. I.e. when Moon and each planet is moved at the same arc of motion as secondary progressed Sun. There is no logical reason that the S.A.D. should work......yet it does.

I have a reasonable selection of English and Dutch (never translated!) med. astro. books on the shelves, as well as many web sites on my 'favourites' list that I consult regularly. In that respect the WWW is literally a world of available information.
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Unread 04-24-2016, 10:28 PM
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Dubyadude1986 Dubyadude1986 is offline
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Re: Correspondence between Natal aspects and Transits

So, is there any chance we can turn any of these actors into real astrologers?
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  #19  
Unread 04-25-2016, 03:43 AM
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Re: Correspondence between Natal aspects and Transits

@Frisiangal
Yes, I agree - I should have added some comments about this.

In Message of the Stars
Quote:
"This axial rotation of the earth brings a new degree to the zenith, or Meridian about every four minutes, and by the rules of one system of progression we may calculate how many degrees of Right Ascension come to the Meridian position from birth to the formation of a certain aspect. The intervening degrees are then converted to time at the rate of 1 degree equals 1 year.

The other system of progression is founded upon the orbital revolution of the earth, but in this system the positions of the planets are expressed in degrees of Longitude and measured on the ecliptic or Sun’s path, from Aries 0 degrees to Pisces 29. The measure of time is the same as in the system first mentioned: 1 degree equals 1 year, but there is this important difference, that while the earth takes only 4 minutes to turn 1 degree upon its axis, it requires 24 hours to move 1 degree in its orbit. Thus, by one system of progression all the aspects that govern events in a life of 60 years would be formed in 60 times 4 minutes, which equals 4 hours or one-sixth part of a day. By the other system, formation of aspects for the same period of life would require 60 days, or 2 months, or one-sixth part of a year.

"... 1/360 part of a day being equivalent to a year, that an error of 4 minutes in the given time of birth would throw predictions out a whole year. Few people know their birth hour to the minute, therefore this system of progression is of little use and little used."

By this method [1 degree equals 1 year] an error of 2 hours in the given time of birth would only cause an error of 1 month in predictions; this system therefore gives universal satisfaction, and is most commonly used."
In Simplified Scientific Astrology, Heindel preferred to call "1 degree equals 1 year" the Primary Directions, and because of the importance of the Progressed Moon, he referred to this as a Secondary Direction. This of course differs from Nicholas Devore's summary of Directions in his Encyclopedia of Astrology, but seems to agree [somewhat] with Alan Leo - "The other or secondary system, primarily intended as an aid to the foregoing, is purely zodiacal, and was much in favour with the Hermetists and Arabians, hence it frequently goes by those names."


Alan Leo - The Progressed Horoscope
Quote:
"Directions proper are of two kinds: Mundane and Zodiacal; primary directions, strictly speaking, belong entirely to the former and so-called secondary ones to the latter, i.e., one is made according to the circle of the zodiac and the other according to that of the world, or in respect to the mundane distances of bouses and angles.

(1) Primary arcs are constituted by the diurnal motion of the earth immediately preceding and following the birth; and it must be conceived from the commencement of the study that the planets' places at the moment of drawing breath only are dealt with, they having all the efficacy impressed upon them of the heavenly bodies which have moved away. So that it will be comprehended that the Primary Directions for a lifetime are formed within a very few hours after birth by the diurnal motion of a planet or planets, either bodily or by aspect, to: (0) the angles; (b) to other planets; (c) to its own or another planet's original place.

These are considered the most powerful agents in the production of events, but their calculation entails patience and a certain share of mathematical ability, two things not always at the disposal of the ordinary student.

(2) The other or secondary system, primarily intended as an aid to the foregoing, is purely zodiacal, and was much in favour with the Hermetists and Arabians, hence it frequently goes by those names.

It is based on the daily motion of the sun, moon, and planets subsequent and antecedent to birth, possesses undoubted power, and appears to be the method which finds most favour in the eyes of the modem astrologer; perhaps this is scarcely to be wondered at seeing the rapidity at which the age lives. This method is, in fact, that of the " progressed horoscope," to which the previous sections of this work have been devoted."
Nicholas deVore - Encyclopedia of Astrology
Quote:
The Primary System is thus a calculation of the number of four-minute intervals during which a given planet will move from its birth position to the place where it conjoins or aspects a sensitive degree - usually the birth-position of some other planet.

Secondary Progressions, much easier to calculate, are based on the theory that the positions of the planets on the third day of life, for example, will represent a correct Progressed horoscope for the third year of life, and so on. In this system one casts a Progressed Figure for the year desired, by casting it for that many days after birth, using the ephemeris of the year of birth.
Re Solar Arcs
I have used them occasionally - I prefer the other method, although I do believe that the Solar Arcs do provide a different kind of information.


@Dubyadude1986

Quote:
So, is there any chance we can turn any of these actors into real astrologers?
Well your comment deserves a response.

Are you implying that "old-timers" like Alan Leo 1860-1917, Sepharial 1864-1919, Max Heindel 1865-1919, Evangeline Adams 1868-1932, Llewellyn George 1876-1954, Alice Bailey 1880-1949, Charles Carter 1887-1968, Marc Edmund Jones 1888-1980, Dane Rudhyar 1895-1985, Cyril Fagan 1896-1970, Reinhold Ebertin 1901-1988, Grant Lewi 1902-1951, Charles A. Jayne 1911-1985 and Ronald C. Davison 1914-1985 were actors instead of real astrologers?

Many of these people incorporated Progressions into their Interpretations, and were careful to observe the workings of the Progressed Moon and Lunations along with Transits. What other techniques would they use in terms of the timing of events?

Or are you just implying that me and possibly Frisiangal are actors because we respect the work of Max Heindel and Alan Leo, et al?

I can understand that there are people who scoff at the Rosicrucians, especially their Philosophy of Astrology and their affiliation with Mystic Christianity. Did you know that at one time the Rosicrucian Ephemeris was the most popular Ephemeris in the Western world? - and it still exists today.

These old-time astrologers were instrumental in getting astrology of out the "medieval" times and into the Modern Era - they also incorporated Uranus, Neptune and later on, Pluto into their Interpretations.

Any contemporary Astrologer owes them a debt of gratitude.

Do you think that Stephen Arroyo, Zipporah Pottenger Dobyns, Michael Erlewine, Jeff Green, Liz Greene, Robert Hand, Isabel Hickey, Maritha Pottenger, Erin Sullivan, Richard Tarnas, Karen Hamaker-Zondag were not familiar with the work of these "old-timers"? Any reputable school of thought has to have a solid lineage.

Here's a brief quote from Robert Hand
"But then with Alan Leo, and more recently people like Dane Rudhyar, and on another level people like the Hamburg School and Cosmobiology of Ebertin, a rather new kind of astrology began coming into existence, which it might be appropriate simply to call 20th century astrology, but I would like to call modern astrology."

The biggest difference that I see from the "old-timers" compared to contemporary astrology - is that more modern astrologers are paying more attention to the Nodes of the Moon.

As this thread concerns the correspondence bewteen Natal aspects and Transits perhaps you can share some of your experiences regarding this topic.

.................................................. ..................................................


Here is an example of a series of four Lunations and how they corresponded to Natal aspects of Sun square Mars, Sun conjunct Saturn and Mars square Saturn. In addition there was also a series of Transit aspects that corresponded to the Natal aspects and Lunation aspects to Natal positions.

It shows some of the timing involved in this Saturn Return.

Natal.Lunations.Transits.gif




1st Row
The lunation on 08/08/1983 at 15LEO40 was opposite Mars and square Saturn and the Sun. It also triggered the TMars opposite Mars, and the TMars square Saturn at the end of August 1983.

2nd Row
The lunation on 11/04/1983 at 11SCO56 was square Mars and conjunct Saturn and the Sun. It also triggered the TSaturn square Mars and TSaturn conjunct Saturn that occurred Nov 22 1983 and Dec 4 1983 respectively.

3rd Row
The lunation on 02/01/1984 at 12AQU19 was conjunct Mars and square Saturn and the Sun. It also triggered the TMars square Mars, TMars conjunct Saturn and TMars conjunct the Sun that occurred during the first week of February 1984.

4th Row
The lunation on 05/01/1984 at 10TAU58 was a Solar Eclipse and was square Mars and opposite Saturn and the Sun. It also triggered the TSaturn conjunct Saturn, that was in place May 1 1984


Re 4. the "<05/01/1984" indicates that the Transit was already in place.
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  #20  
Unread 04-25-2016, 08:08 AM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: Correspondence between Natal aspects and Transits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubyadude1986 View Post
So, is there any chance we can turn any of these actors into real astrologers?
My mind obviously works differently to yours. I don't understand the meaning behind the comment.
Can you be more specific in what you are otherwise evading to say?
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