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  #1  
Unread 01-11-2014, 04:58 AM
7401Rizey 7401Rizey is offline
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The Significance of Chiron.

Chiron, the wounded healer. Represents our deepest wound. I mean, from what I've read (cookbook interpretations) is that Chiron is the wounded healer that could not heal himself and for us it represents apart of us that is deeply wounded and that part of us that needs healing. Is that like being rejected in an area of life that has effected us so much that we tend to ignore because we have felt deeply hurt?

If there's apart of us that is wounded, and they said that Chiron could not heal himself, so does that mean that we're unable to heal ourselves based on the area of life that has been wounded for us? Or because it's so deep, are we unable to easily repair the wound that we have?

These are just general questions, but my real question is.

How much significance does Chiron really hold in a native's chart?

I know it varies because people have different charts and stuff, and I really don't know too much, but I just want to hear through people's experiences/readings of how significant Chiron really is in their chart or other peoples.

Thanks.
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Unread 01-11-2014, 03:45 PM
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Re: The Significance of Chiron.

I don't use Chiron (or asteroids generally.)

I live in Idaho, where the license plates on our pickup trucks say "Famous Potatoes".

I see Chiron as a potato that escaped into space. It is about as long as the drive from my house to Boise, and pretty much has the shape and appearance of a potato.

My practice of astrology is oriented toward healing the wounded soul.

Using only the ten planets of modern astrology, the practitioner can see the wound. Chiron is not necessary; it is superfluous.

I believe, along with Jean Baptiste Morin, that all astrological symbolism must and should derive directly from astronomical fact. The fact we see in the sky is translated into meanng here on Earth. Chiron's meaning, "the wounded healer", comes from its name and the associated mythology, not from the astronomy of this wayward icy rock.

Much of astrological symbolism (of the planets) is derived from the characteristics of orbits. Mercury's orbit is adjacent to the Sun, so Mercury becomes the messenger of the gods, or of the God Within. The orbital period is short (88 days), so Mercury is "quick" and bounces from here to there. Saturn's orbit is farthest from the Sun (before 1781) and he moves very slowly. Many of the meanings of Saturn emerge from these (and other) facts about his orbit.

Let's look at the orbit of Chiron. First, it is highly irregular. It moves from within the orbit of Saturn out to the orbit of Uranus. In terms of significance, then, we could call Chiron a "connector between the conventional and the revolutionary, a messenger of change." (The reverse could also be derived: originality and individuality are overcome by the pressures of society and convention.)...we could correlate these two opposing interpretations to the orbital phase of Chiron -- whether it is "inbound" or "outbound". Chiron's orbit is extremely unstable, chaotic and has no permanence; it will disintegrate in a short time (astronomical time) and its fate is at present unpredictable. We could go on, and put forward a lot of interpretation of Chiron's astrological significance.

But why should what amounts to a wayward rock be given significance at all?

Chiron grabbed attention because it was the first-discovered of a new class of asteroid, the centaurs. That is pretty much its only claim to fame.

If we are going to use asteroids, what ever happened to Ceres? Ceres was the first asteroid discovered (1801), is the largest, and the only one of sufficient mass to attain hydrostatic equilibrium (the only truly spherical asteroid). It's orbit is regular, rather highly inclined to the ecliptic, stable; it acts as a planet acts. And it occupies a position predicted by Titus-Bode. Yet no one ever mentions Ceres.

There are over a million known objects in the solar system. Shall we include them all in our horoscopes? As I mentioned, the "wounding" we all experience in life is clearly described without the use of Chiron -- it tells nothing we can't learn about ourselves without it. Why clutter the horocope and increase complexity?

Last edited by greybeard; 01-11-2014 at 03:57 PM.
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  #3  
Unread 01-12-2014, 12:56 AM
7401Rizey 7401Rizey is offline
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Re: The Significance of Chiron.

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
I don't use Chiron (or asteroids generally.)

I live in Idaho, where the license plates on our pickup trucks say "Famous Potatoes".

I see Chiron as a potato that escaped into space. It is about as long as the drive from my house to Boise, and pretty much has the shape and appearance of a potato.

My practice of astrology is oriented toward healing the wounded soul.

Using only the ten planets of modern astrology, the practitioner can see the wound. Chiron is not necessary; it is superfluous.

I believe, along with Jean Baptiste Morin, that all astrological symbolism must and should derive directly from astronomical fact. The fact we see in the sky is translated into meanng here on Earth. Chiron's meaning, "the wounded healer", comes from its name and the associated mythology, not from the astronomy of this wayward icy rock.

Much of astrological symbolism (of the planets) is derived from the characteristics of orbits. Mercury's orbit is adjacent to the Sun, so Mercury becomes the messenger of the gods, or of the God Within. The orbital period is short (88 days), so Mercury is "quick" and bounces from here to there. Saturn's orbit is farthest from the Sun (before 1781) and he moves very slowly. Many of the meanings of Saturn emerge from these (and other) facts about his orbit.

Let's look at the orbit of Chiron. First, it is highly irregular. It moves from within the orbit of Saturn out to the orbit of Uranus. In terms of significance, then, we could call Chiron a "connector between the conventional and the revolutionary, a messenger of change." (The reverse could also be derived: originality and individuality are overcome by the pressures of society and convention.)...we could correlate these two opposing interpretations to the orbital phase of Chiron -- whether it is "inbound" or "outbound". Chiron's orbit is extremely unstable, chaotic and has no permanence; it will disintegrate in a short time (astronomical time) and its fate is at present unpredictable. We could go on, and put forward a lot of interpretation of Chiron's astrological significance.

But why should what amounts to a wayward rock be given significance at all?

Chiron grabbed attention because it was the first-discovered of a new class of asteroid, the centaurs. That is pretty much its only claim to fame.

If we are going to use asteroids, what ever happened to Ceres? Ceres was the first asteroid discovered (1801), is the largest, and the only one of sufficient mass to attain hydrostatic equilibrium (the only truly spherical asteroid). It's orbit is regular, rather highly inclined to the ecliptic, stable; it acts as a planet acts. And it occupies a position predicted by Titus-Bode. Yet no one ever mentions Ceres.

There are over a million known objects in the solar system. Shall we include them all in our horoscopes? As I mentioned, the "wounding" we all experience in life is clearly described without the use of Chiron -- it tells nothing we can't learn about ourselves without it. Why clutter the horocope and increase complexity?

So, Do you think that Ceres is more important than Chiron?

I agree with the fact that everything in the solar system shouldn't be apart of the horoscope, because of complexity, but then it begs another question as to why are there systems that uses asteroids and other things that you can discover in a native's chart without the use of those things that are being mentioned.

Since Chiron deals with the deeps wounds in a native that the native can't access, doesn't that parallel some themes of the Twelve House? Such as deep psychological complexes of an individual that the individual isn't really 'aware' of?
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Unread 01-12-2014, 01:15 AM
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Re: The Significance of Chiron.

If you feel like studying Chiron, by all means study Chiron! It may provide insight for you and illuminate facets of yourself that you weren't aware of.

Chiron has an explanation in my chart, that yes, maybe you could have deduced otherwise. The presence of Chiron there makes it obvious of the location of a wound without any guessing. It has also described healing that I was able to share as a result.

There was an astrologer here some years ago that went by R4ven who was like the guru on Chiron here. Consider searching her user name for more info on this asteroid.
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Unread 01-12-2014, 01:18 AM
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Re: The Significance of Chiron.

You are going to find wide disagreement here. For me, it is irrelevant how big or how far away the object is, its impact on us is spiritual and from a different level of existence, not the 3rd dimensional physical plane because it is all illusion anyway. If you dismiss Chiron because it is too small and too far away, then you should dismiss outer planets, fixed stars, and any calculated point like the MC that doesn't even physically exist except as a concept. That said, I find Chiron very important as well as several of the asteroids, and I've demonstrated their use here often enough. For me, Chiron is a deep wound - a wound that defies logic or explanation - a sore point in our psyche that when triggered causes us to behave in mostly negative ways. How this sore point is developed (childhood, adulthood, or past life) doesn't really matter - what matters is that it is there, and it hurts, and it can destroy relationships with others when not handled well. It also comes into play in composite charts where Chiron in a relationship with another person has its own sore point. Everyone has this sensitive point in their makeup, something that hits us deep inside, but obviously some people can handle this natively better than others - for some people this hurt runs their lives and every interaction in it, and is a major point of their life path in this incarnation.
Once you learn to handle this wound, you can then assist others with theirs for who can understand a deep hurt better than one who has experienced it and dealt with it effectively?
Ceres has a place as well, it is where you can access deep nurturing and loving energy and express that into the world, whether it is in for caring for others, creating new objects of art, birthing children, birthing ideas, and so on.
Should every object in the heavens be used? Of course not - a chart would be so bogged down in complexity as to make it unreadable. Every practiced astrologer finds the objects that work for them regularly and provide insight. For me, that so far is the four main asteroids (pallas ceres juno vesta), chiron, some fixed stars (but only when conjunct very tight), and some calculated points (the vertex, part of fortune, part of spirit). Some people here like to use many Arabic Parts, some use other asteroids that I don't use (such as Eros). Use what resonates with you and works.
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Unread 01-12-2014, 02:20 AM
7401Rizey 7401Rizey is offline
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Re: The Significance of Chiron.

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Originally Posted by mdinaz View Post
You are going to find wide disagreement here. For me, it is irrelevant how big or how far away the object is, its impact on us is spiritual and from a different level of existence, not the 3rd dimensional physical plane because it is all illusion anyway. If you dismiss Chiron because it is too small and too far away, then you should dismiss outer planets, fixed stars, and any calculated point like the MC that doesn't even physically exist except as a concept. That said, I find Chiron very important as well as several of the asteroids, and I've demonstrated their use here often enough. For me, Chiron is a deep wound - a wound that defies logic or explanation - a sore point in our psyche that when triggered causes us to behave in mostly negative ways. How this sore point is developed (childhood, adulthood, or past life) doesn't really matter - what matters is that it is there, and it hurts, and it can destroy relationships with others when not handled well. It also comes into play in composite charts where Chiron in a relationship with another person has its own sore point. Everyone has this sensitive point in their makeup, something that hits us deep inside, but obviously some people can handle this natively better than others - for some people this hurt runs their lives and every interaction in it, and is a major point of their life path in this incarnation.
Once you learn to handle this wound, you can then assist others with theirs for who can understand a deep hurt better than one who has experienced it and dealt with it effectively?
Ceres has a place as well, it is where you can access deep nurturing and loving energy and express that into the world, whether it is in for caring for others, creating new objects of art, birthing children, birthing ideas, and so on.
Should every object in the heavens be used? Of course not - a chart would be so bogged down in complexity as to make it unreadable. Every practiced astrologer finds the objects that work for them regularly and provide insight. For me, that so far is the four main asteroids (pallas ceres juno vesta), chiron, some fixed stars (but only when conjunct very tight), and some calculated points (the vertex, part of fortune, part of spirit). Some people here like to use many Arabic Parts, some use other asteroids that I don't use (such as Eros). Use what resonates with you and works.
So how much significance would you say Chiron hold?, especially since it's one of the main asteroids that are mentioned.

I'm only wondering, because the representation of Chiron seems like it hold an "importance" where the native has a "difficulty" accessing Chiron on a conscious level... Especially if that native has a lot of 12 House/8 House things going on in their chart.

And if it is in a house that is hidden, would it make it more difficult for the native to access?
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Unread 01-12-2014, 03:15 PM
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Re: The Significance of Chiron.

It is only as important as it is in your particular chart. Chiron is at home in Pisces thus the 12th house would be native to it - Chiron in the 12th just shows you keep your deep wounds well hidden, as most people strive to do innately. When people trigger a 12th house Pisces, they may never know it but you will feel it keenly. As Chiron is about feeling, it will do best in feeling signs, and do poorly in analytical signs or signs that restrict feeling, or with negative aspects to those planets that restrict feeling (such as Saturn or Mars).
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Unread 01-13-2014, 11:56 PM
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Re: The Significance of Chiron.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7401Rizey View Post
So how much significance would you say Chiron hold?,
People widely disagree on this because Chiron influences people differently. A person with personal planets conjunct Chiron or Chiron conjunct ascendant will be far more aware of their wounding, than someone who's Chiron makes only a few wide aspects to outer planets.

Everything else is in between and it is a matter of the person being willing to be introspective and the kind of overall personality, whether people consider it to be 'real' or 'significant'.

Believe me, people with a prominent Chiron usually won't argue with you over it's validity.
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Unread 01-14-2014, 01:31 AM
7401Rizey 7401Rizey is offline
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Re: The Significance of Chiron.

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People widely disagree on this because Chiron influences people differently. A person with personal planets conjunct Chiron or Chiron conjunct ascendant will be far more aware of their wounding, than someone who's Chiron makes only a few wide aspects to outer planets.

Everything else is in between and it is a matter of the person being willing to be introspective and the kind of overall personality, whether people consider it to be 'real' or 'significant'.

Believe me, people with a prominent Chiron usually won't argue with you over it's validity.
I agree that it varies, just like anything else in a native's chart. So let me ask you this... Say if a native has Chiron making aspects to their moon, sun or ascendent for example.

Would you say that since they're able to identity with Chiron's wounding, are they then able to help heal themselves of Chiron's wounding?

Cause I mean, it would probably make sense that if someone isn't quite familiar or aware of Chiron's deep wound that maybe they would have a harder time trying to identify the source of the wound... which entails that it would be harder to heal.

since we all have Chiron in our chart, their has to be a way for us to heal or to be healed from it's effects, and they say that the native can help with others' wounds but not their own, why is that?
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Unread 01-14-2014, 01:50 AM
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Re: The Significance of Chiron.

How to heal? Is that what you are asking in your previous post? Geez, I don't have an exact answer for you. But awareness and consciousness does help. When you no longer repress or try to avoid the toxicity, alienation and deep stress that it brings (with personal planets in conjunction for example), there seem to be a void in which you can sit with the pain, make peace, take stock and somehow detach from victimhood. It creates space to learn more about your SELF, take responsibility for creating what you truly desire as a result and ammo up to start anew. Clear as mud?

I believe that your own experience with Chiron and awareness of, create deep compassion and empathy for others. It is the trials of Chiron that prepares a person for deep wisdom in dealing with others tribulations especially later in life. How can you heal another? I don't know. But somehow your open heart, feeling and ability to relate, is healing. They say love heals, don't they?
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Unread 01-14-2014, 02:14 AM
7401Rizey 7401Rizey is offline
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Re: The Significance of Chiron.

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Originally Posted by Flowergirl View Post
How to heal? Is that what you are asking in your previous post? Geez, I don't have an exact answer for you. But awareness and consciousness does help. When you no longer repress or try to avoid the toxicity, alienation and deep stress that it brings (with personal planets in conjunction for example), there seem to be a void in which you can sit with the pain, make peace, take stock and somehow detach from victimhood. It creates space to learn more about your SELF, take responsibility for creating what you truly desire as a result and ammo up to start anew. Clear as mud?

I believe that your own experience with Chiron and awareness of, create deep compassion and empathy for others. It is the trials of Chiron that prepares a person for deep wisdom in dealing with others tribulations especially later in life. How can you heal another? I don't know. But somehow your open heart, feeling and ability to relate, is healing. They say love heals, don't they?
Well I'm sure we can be healed from Chiron's effects, I'm only asking because the interpretation (I know, don't go by cookbook interpretations) seems very weird to me.

I guess when people have a more clear understand of Chiron, they're able to figure out how to heal themselves and also heal others. It's kind of funny to for a native to be able to heal others but can't heal themselves in that aspect. It's almost like giving someone advice on something that you could benefit from but never consider using it for yourself.
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Unread 01-14-2014, 02:16 AM
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Re: The Significance of Chiron.

Perhaps you can look at Chiron the same way in which I look at the four major goddess asteroids: Pallas, Ceres, Juno, Vesta. If they are conjunct a personal planet, it means that the theme of that asteroid is prominent in your life. If it is not conjunct a personal planet, that theme won't feature in your life. I have 3 of these asteroids prominent in my chart and have seem them in family members' lives too. It is very accurate to look at it in this way.

People have different life paths. Some live very Chironic lives (due to it's prominence in the chart) and others simply do not have Chironic themes, just from time to time due to transit. Of some people you can say that they are 'healers' or psychologically inclined and others not. It is perhaps simply the choice of the soul what journey to have in this lifetime.
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Unread 01-14-2014, 02:19 AM
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Re: The Significance of Chiron.

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Originally Posted by 7401Rizey View Post
It's kind of funny to for a native to be able to heal others but can't heal themselves in that aspect. It's almost like giving someone advice on something that you could benefit from but never consider using it for yourself.
What a truth and irony, isn't it!
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Unread 01-14-2014, 03:33 AM
7401Rizey 7401Rizey is offline
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Re: The Significance of Chiron.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowergirl View Post
Perhaps you can look at Chiron the same way in which I look at the four major goddess asteroids: Pallas, Ceres, Juno, Vesta. If they are conjunct a personal planet, it means that the theme of that asteroid is prominent in your life. If it is not conjunct a personal planet, that theme won't feature in your life. I have 3 of these asteroids prominent in my chart and have seem them in family members' lives too. It is very accurate to look at it in this way.

People have different life paths. Some live very Chironic lives (due to it's prominence in the chart) and others simply do not have Chironic themes, just from time to time due to transit. Of some people you can say that they are 'healers' or psychologically inclined and others not. It is perhaps simply the choice of the soul what journey to have in this lifetime.
Do such people that have "Chiron-themed lives" (I don't mean it in that way per say) often let themselves be victimized? Or see themselves as victims?

apart of being healed or being a healer is experiencing or have experience being a victim in a some part or duration of life, right? Is there a "religious" feature featured along with Chiron? I know Chiron is spiritual (I'm guessing thats why maybe it's more comfortable with water signs, more notably Pisces)

but if someone has Chiron in Saggitarius for example, would they feel victimized by religion? I mean, I guess if we're dealing with the theme, they would be able to heal others through that channel. Could it be possible that some priests or bishops have Chiron in that sign?
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Unread 01-14-2014, 04:52 AM
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Re: The Significance of Chiron.

Chiron is where you feel alienated and victimised yes. Further than that, you'd have to look toward the sign and house and then aspects to find out more about how it affects each individual. There is a lot about Chiron on the web and Melanie Reinhardt's book is excellent too.

Just fyi: I remember this newsletter from a while ago talking about the prominence of Ceres in the charts of popes:
http://oxford-astrologer.blogspot.co...r-goddess.html

Guess they know astrology too...

Enjoy.
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Unread 01-14-2014, 04:58 AM
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Re: The Significance of Chiron.

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Originally Posted by Flowergirl View Post

Believe me, people with a prominent Chiron usually won't argue with you over it's validity.
LOL

True

Prominent chiron people here
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Unread 01-17-2014, 02:39 AM
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Re: The Significance of Chiron.

I'm quite interested in chiron. It tightly squares my pisces ascendant and gets opposed by my saturn, so that's a big part of it. I'm also visibly, physically disabled ('wounded'), although that hasn't always been the case.

I was born with chiron in gemini in the 3rd (compounded by mercury in the 12th). I was both an only and isolated child with a grave fear of speaking up. I continue to be hypersensitive around communication and have a very timid voice. Talking and writing are unusually uncomfortable (painful, even) for me.

Lately I've been investigating my past progressed charts and back when chiron moved into my second house, I remember feeling deeply impoverished for many years. This manifested in the physical world as well, of course. I was always broke, struggling with the material world, often hungry, and had very low self-worth.

Chiron progressed into my first house literally the month of a major surgery (removing a huge cancerous bone tumour from my right femur) and I've been rendered highly immobile/partially paralyzed ever since (needing a wheelchair & other equipment to get around), and probably will continue to be so for many years.

However, within that same month, I became the recipient of regular monthly sums of money from a very generous and concerned friend's father which has allowed me to do things I hadn't been able to before due to lack of money (have my own apartment, get the medical/health treatments I need, eat healthy foods, etc). I no longer feel the same 2nd house wounding, while typically the natal chart themes persist.

Of course there are other astrological factors involved, but that's one example of chiron's active impact in my life.
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