Hmm - interesting...

Hello all, I'm here for a bit of brain-picking.

As part of my learning, I'm doing lots of practice chart interpretations for people. I'm in the middle of interpreting a chart for an old friend of mine who I haven't seen in years and who I hooked up again with on Facebook.

Anyway, he has a Leo ascendant and the Sun in Leo in the 12th house, which is an interesting placement to say the least. It's also pretty much unaspected, forming only a weak inconjunct with Saturn.

Now, I'm interpreting this as possibly meaning a few things - firstly, that he is open to the collective unconscious, that he is a deeply private person (although that seems to jar with a Leo ascendant/Leo Sun) but mainly that perhaps the "Fun Time Frankie" persona of a Leo rising is something he adopts for the sake of others i.e. that being the big, brash, jovial Leo is something he does because others expect it of him and perhaps even need it of him, and that it kind of overlays other aspects of his personality (such as his intellect, as indicated by Mercury in Virgo) that he'd rather were acknowledged.

What do others think. See his chart below if you want the full picture.

I get your drift, Inconjunct, and congratulations on giving chart interpretation a go, and on putting your thoughts here for all to read!

There are some on the forum who would scoff at your suggestion that his Sun is unaspected. I am one who agrees with you. I have learned my unaspected planet stuff from Karen Hamaker-Zondag's book on Yods, and she says that to be aspected a planet must have major aspects (and she doesn't count inconjunct as a major aspect) and any aspects to the angles are to be left out, since the angles are not dynamic. I mention the angles, because this guy's Sun squares the MC-IC axis, and this will create - I believe - a further blocking of his energy.

I think he will be seen as his Leo ascendant, and he may interact with the world from that energy - all social and out-going. Inside himself he is likely to be a bit of a mixed bag, and so may feel sensitive, self-conscious and self-critical (that's the inconjunct with Saturn) and have a powerful desire to take charge, perhaps as a means of covering his perceived insecurities.. I have always seen an unaspected Sun expressed in a way of being an over-blown energy, out-going and quite bossy, but it is just as likely that this guy expresses his (almost) unaspected Sun with great difficulty.
[For instance, I have an (almost) unaspected Mercury (in Leo), and I over-express Mercury, while another woman I know with a fully unaspected Merc in Capricorn is a quiet, mousy person who can only communicate with the world in an indirect, passive-aggressive manner.]

So how your friend puts these disparate energies together is going to be up to him, I guess. I notice his Pisces Moon conj Chiron - sensitivity plus - and Chiron's opposition to Pluto, so he has depth and breadth. Perhaps his Asc just covers all that for the purpose of him getting along with others.

Thanks a million for looking in on this, R4VEN, and for offering your thoughts, some of which I might pinch for his interpretation .

What you say about aspects makes sense to me - if the only aspect a planet makes is a nearly-out-of-orb minor, then it has much less weight, in terms of interpretation, than - say - a tight conjunction or a more exact trine. Not all the aspects can have the same importance, surely?

Thanks again

I took a look at the chart and what stood out most to me is how well known he is for his healing qualities, whether in tradition medicine or healing the soul/spirit.




Northstar

Inconjunct said:

What you say about aspects makes sense to me - if the only aspect a planet makes is a nearly-out-of-orb minor, then it has much less weight, in terms of interpretation, than - say - a tight conjunction or a more exact trine. Not all the aspects can have the same importance, surely?

Click to expand...

I agree with this, but many do not.

I was thinking overnight about this chart. I found the combination of Leo Asc and Leo sun in the 12th interesting. Keep in mind that the ruler of the ascendant's house position will impact upon how the Ascendant is projected. That is, he will probably project as a Piscean Leo. ie. a sensitive and aware Leo, rather than a look-at-me Leo. He is likely to be a listener, rather than a talker.

Northstar - yes, I was surprised at the amount of spirituality and healing evidenced in his chart.

R4VEN - yes, that makes sense. I haven't seen him for over 20 years. I've done some charts for friends, but I wanted to do people I didn't know so well to see if I could still interpret in the absence of personal knowledge of them.

The person I knew way back when was VERY Leo in that he was flamboyant, egotistical and dramatic but I suspect he's grown into his 12th house Sun a bit more as he's got older. Something else that makes sense to me - because it chimes with my experience - is that you become more like your Sun as you mature. From things I've read - such as Sue Tompkins' books - the Sun is the person you aspire to be, so of course you'll become more like it as you grow older, all things considered.

Inconjunct said:

...Not all the aspects can have the same importance, surely?

Click to expand...

In this chart though, there is an exact 9th harmonic aspect (40 degrees) from the Sun to Venus in Gemini/11th...

...which (in the absence of other aspects) is like having a Sun/Venus trinextrine...so he might be a naturally "flamboyant social animal", despite having a chart ruled by a 12th house Sun....... perhaps a "life and soul of the party" Venus who behaves differently in the company of those who know him well.

-

Now, I'm interpreting this as possibly meaning a few things - firstly, that he is open to the collective unconscious, that he is a deeply private person (although that seems to jar with a Leo ascendant/Leo Sun) but mainly that perhaps the "Fun Time Frankie" persona of a Leo rising is something he adopts for the sake of others i.e. that being the big, brash, jovial Leo is something he does because others expect it of him and perhaps even need it of him, and that it kind of overlays other aspects of his personality (such as his intellect, as indicated by Mercury in Virgo) that he'd rather were acknowledged.

Click to expand...

I do count the inconjunct as a major aspect and it's relevant

Sun Quincunx (Inconjunct) Saturn

It is easy for you to take on responsibilities that aren't yours while ignoring ones that are. Because you work hard and aren't always recognized or compensated for it, you often "run out of steam" before your work is done. Your life works best when you learn to take care of your most important responsibilities first.
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/quincunxinterpretations.html

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His mercury conj Asc and conj Uranus helps with communicating but can also be argumentative conj Uranus and come out with Leo big statements at times then at others (mercury opp Saturn) can withdraw and be more thoughtful

Venus/mars in 11th is where he put 'energy and affection' towards friendships group activities and this combination can be 'very flirtatious' and fickle and enjoy lots of different frienships with all sorts of people

His moon only has two aspects trine Neptune, good imagination and quite psychic, but the opposition to pluto shows a need for obsessive, controlling behaviour. Moon in 7th (Equal house) suggests that where he looks for nurturance and would give it, but Saturn there suggests delays and older type partners or at least til first saturn return...

Thank you for weighing in with your views, EJ and astrologer50.

EJ - I don't know much about harmonics (we study them later on, in the diploma course), but it sounds interesting.

Inconjunct said:

Thank you for weighing in with your views, EJ and astrologer50.

EJ - I don't know much about harmonics (we study them later on, in the diploma course), but it sounds interesting.

Click to expand...

Harmonics
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ight=harmonics
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/harmonics32.1.html
Harmonic charts involve multiplying the positions of planets by a number so that they move to new points, and each number corresponds to a house, basically.
As I understand it the second Harmonic chart would shift things around such that oppositions become conjunctions,
in the 3rd harmonic trines would become conjunctions, in the 4th, squares become conjunctions.
The 1st harmonic is just your basic natal chart, so conjunctions are conjunctions.
The actual nuts-and-bolts of how it works are a bit hazy for me, and I haven't really looked at harmonic charts much at all so I couldn't say anything as to their usefulness or accuracy or anything, let alone interpretation.
Clearer explanations found here: http://www.newage-directory.com/harmonic.htm

Some VERY IMPORTANT words of caution:

1) DON'T EVER try to do aspects between harmonics of different numbers. They are totally different animals.

2) There are no signs or houses in harmonic charts. Remember that everything has been rearranged, so please don't do sign or house interpretations because they are no longer there. The purpose of harmonics is to get more information about aspects and aspect patterns.


Now, let's take a look at some actual harmonics and how they can add depth to horoscope interpretation.

The Fourth Harmonic: The 4th harmonic shows how we deal with stress, strain, and struggle. When you construct a 4th harmonic chart, all of the conjunction, square, and opposition aspects in the original horoscope appear as conjunctions and this makes them easier to see. Of course, these aspects are pretty easy to see in the original horoscope as well, so what's the point? The point is that the minor aspects, the semi-square (45 degrees) and sequa-square (135 degrees), which are difficult to spot by a quick visual inspection, now appear as oppositions, and can be seen at a glance. Not only that, but other minor stress aspects (22 ½ degrees, 67 ½ degrees, 157 ½ degrees), which can take a very long time to locate, now become squares. In the 4th harmonic, whole patterns of stress aspects can be spotted, and this gives you a big edge for interpretation.

The Fifth Harmonic: The 5th harmonic chart indicates talent, if any. In the 5th harmonic chart, all of the quintiles and bi-quintiles come together as conjunctions, making them very easy to spot. The semi-quintiles and sesqua-quintiles become oppositions. Quintiles are one fifth of a circle (72 degrees) and they give talent and power, and show our ability to put things together (pattern recognition). It also has to do with creative play, the joy of making up games of finding patterns (like looking for "patterns" of cracks in the ceiling, or always stepping on cracks in the sidewalk, or always avoiding the cracks). People with strong 5th harmonics do things like that all the time.

Of course, taken to the extreme, this is a mental disorder, but those with a strong 5th harmonic usually manage to keep it under control, and then it becomes the basis for creative talent. You don't need a strong 5th harmonic to succeed as an artist, designer, scientist, or engineer, but it really helps.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrological-aspects/quintile-5th-harmonic.php
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/quintile_biquintile.html

Thanks - interesting stuff.