Sun-Pluto aspect

DeLaSoul

Well-known member
Regarding my Pluto/Sun/Mercury in Scorpio on the DC, and a loaded 8th house, I have gone through a lot in life.

South node in 4th leo, moon inconjunct IC. I've never gotten along with my family. I have 2 siblings, one passed away a couple years before my birth and so I have had to deal with my parents/older brothers psychological baggage/toxicity all throughout my life. It wasnt pleasant at all growing up, feeling stuck with these people as they slowly condition you every single day with their uncivilized behavior and temperament. My home truly is a toxic zone that is not supporting my souls growth..even my growth as a reputable adult in this world.

Not trying to get too in depth about these experiences..I can go on and on for days.. but personally it is tough dealing with such a powerful pluto influence. It feels mostly negative, severely uncomfortable in my chart..
 
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SunW

Well-known member
Regarding my Pluto/Sun/Mercury in Scorpio on the DC, and a loaded 8th house, I have gone through a lot in life.

South node in 4th leo, moon inconjunct IC. I've never gotten along with my family. I have 2 siblings, one passed away a couple years before my birth and so I have had to deal with my parents/older brothers psychological baggage/toxicity all throughout my life. It wasnt pleasant at all growing up, feeling stuck with these people as they slowly condition you every single day with their uncivilized behavior and temperament. My home truly is a toxic zone that is not supporting my souls growth..even my growth as a reputable adult in this world.

Not trying to get too in depth about these experiences..I can go on and on for days.. but personally it is tough dealing with such a powerful pluto influence. It feels mostly negative, severely uncomfortable in my chart..

You didn't mention anything about your father's family. Were there any policemen, people connected with the secret service, working in the military.
Were there cases of crime, murder in your family? Probably there were victims of some crime in you father's family. What do you know about that?
 

moonstark

Well-known member
I have Sun (aquarius/12th) square Pluto (scorpio/7th). Absent father, emotionally abusive and domineering step-parent(s) (doesn't the 11th house/Aqua rule step-parents?) -- although both of those people were female, since my mother is a lesbian. Could have been men, I suppose.

With the 12th house sun (in detriment and hidden) and strong 7th house pluto, I tend to attract abusive types, even though it's a square not an opposition. Definitely big issues around secrecy and controlling my image, though. A very self-defeating aspect, esp. with a timid rising sign being squared by saturn, and the sun/merc in the house of subconscious. Boo.

I also have a moon (aries) inconjunct pluto, and am currently wrapping up a beastly moon square pluto transit.

My father's dad died when he was very young; my mother's dad died when she was 16. She has a leo sun conjunct pluto.
 

SunW

Well-known member
My father's dad died when he was very young; my mother's dad died when she was 16. She has a leo sun conjunct pluto.


What happened with your father?

Does your father have any aspect between Pluto and the Sun or Sun in the 8th house or in Scorpio?
 

moonstark

Well-known member
Both of his parents died when he was really young, so he was raised by his grandmother. There was history of addiction in his family, and addiction-related issues are the probable cause for the early death of his parents. He has sun, mercury, mars, NN and jupiter in the 12th house, with sun/mars/merc opposite neptune. Sun loosely trines pluto.
 
I have a Sun-Jupiter-Pluto conjunction in Scorpio square Mars in Leo.
My father was emotionally absent most of the time. He was an alcoholic and was recently diagnosed with bi-polar disorder. My childhood pretty much revolved around him. For example we moved a lot, lost many family friends and met some very crazy people. At one point he got involved with something illegal (I'd rather not mention what) which had a major affect on my mental health. He is also adopted.
Things are all fine now though. I left home as soon as I could! And now we have a calm relationship.
As for my Grandfather, on my Dad's side he died many many years ago and on my Mother's side I hardly see him.
 

TamaraL

Well-known member
Fascinating thread!

I have Pluto (5th H -Scorpio) trine my Sun (Pisces, 9TH H)

My dad has difficulties expressing his emotions, wasn't absent though in my upbringing, he is very creative (painting,photography, interior design) & encouraged me to grow on these areas. he is a sweet person but cut off from his family early.
Therefore I don't have a serious connection with my dads family. They haven't influenced me directly.

Grandfather (Dad's Dad had a serious drinking issue but lived until late 90's, violent)
Grandmother (died when I was 8, both worked in textiles)
They both experienced forced migration.
Therefore I cannot track my bloodline from fathers side.

Ironically my maternal grandfather was very close to me as a kid & worked in the army & police. Very close with mother's family (no Moon-Pluto aspects though)

Also have:
Mars opposition Pluto (Scary!Prone to accidents.Hope not!)
Mercury square Pluto
Saturn sextile Pluto
Neptune sextile Pluto
Pluto trine Asc
 

Bunraku

Well-known member
I have the conjunction 8 degrees. Too wide, yes?

Dad and I have OK relationship. We don't think alike and we (I SHOULD SAY HE :lol:) have trouble communicating with each other. I stopped trying to understand him a few years ago and communicate in simple yes/no answers to him.

Tries to talk about pointless to me all the time. Stuff I don't really care about and are so--how do I say--miniscule, and it bothers me to no end! :tongue:

Strange how both my parents have debilitated Mars, but I have an exalted one...
 

SunW

Well-known member
Ironically my maternal grandfather was very close to me as a kid & worked in the army & police. Very close with mother's family (no Moon-Pluto aspects though)

Is your Moon in the 8th house or in Scorpio or does it rule the 8th house?




Mercury square Pluto

Sasportas writes about the "magical thinking" that some people with Pluto-Mercury aspect have. Such people might believe that their thoughts influence other people and create events (often negative events). They may wrongly believe that their thoughts are able to cause the death of other people. Do you have such thoughts?



Pluto trine Asc

Was your birth easy? Or was there any danger for your life? People with Pluto in aspect to the Asc are often born with their ulimbical cord around their neck.
 

TamaraL

Well-known member
Is your Moon in the 8th house or in Scorpio or does it rule the 8th house?

No, I have a 5th H Moon Sagittarius & Pluto in Scorpio in 5th as well.
The 8th House is ruled by Saturn (Aquarius)- Mercury in Aquarius 8th H
& Venus Pisces in the end of the 8th House.




Sasportas writes about the "magical thinking" that some people with Pluto-Mercury aspect have. Such people might believe that their thoughts influence other people and create events (often negative events). They may wrongly believe that their thoughts are able to cause the death of other people. Do you have such thoughts?


no, honestly maybe when I was a kid I predicted some things but nowadays I use my intuition.No magical thinking



Was your birth easy? Or was there any danger for your life? People with Pluto in aspect to the Asc are often born with their ulimbical cord around their neck.

no it wasn't easy.I was born very prematurely via an emergency c-section. I spend the first weeks of my life alone in a incubator.I can't find this in my chart though.
 

Flapjacks

Well-known member
I want to ask those who have any major Sun-Pluto aspect, even if it is a positive aspect about its influence. I suppose the relationship with the father and with the father's family is very important and has a great influence on the native.

Probably the father or another person from the father's lineage has something to do with police, military, psychology, the secret service. Most probably, in the lineage of the father, there are events connected with murder, major crimes and other events where some crime or something else was the cause of death or great suffering for the relatives of the native.
Also, the father might have a bad relationship with his family and the family migth be angry with him.

What is your relationship with your father or even with your grandfather (the father of your father) if you have such an aspect? And what was the relationship of your father with his own father?

Was there any manipulation or were there any dominance issues with your father or probably he used to have such problems in his family?

I have Sun-Pluto square, though out of sign (Sun late Cancer, Pluto early Scorpio). Also have Moon-Pluto square and Merc-Pluto square (t-square)

-I have very strong Pluto synastry with my grandfather (father's father); Pluto square Pluto, his Pluto conjunct my Sun/Mercury. We don't have a very close relationship. He scares the **** outta me. He's a very stubborn and domineering man. Passive aggressive. A Scorpio Moon.

-My relationship with my dad is emotionally distant, but otherwise fairly good. On an intellectual level we get along great. It was a lot more strained when I was young and he was still drinking. His relationship with his father also seems distant. I can tell he feels left out of family matters; but I think the family doesn't think he shows enough interest and support.

-Both father and grandfather have alcohol problems. My dad's brother has a history of being suicidal. Their mother died when they were young. My grandfather remarried their grief counselor. Then she died a few years later (she was abusive towards my father; he says he used to hide in the closet after school until his father came home). After that woman died, my grandpa remarried again to a woman whose son and grandchildren died in a fire. My uncle's wife died a few years ago and my grandpa's sister died last year. Reunions tend to have this undercurrent of sadness. It seems all the men in my dad's family are cursed to lose the women in their lives. :sad:

-I am my father's only child, and his brother has none. Their sister is carrying on the family with two children and so, unless I keep my last name after getting married, our family name dies with me as the youngest member who still uses it.

-I had an drunk, violent criminal stepfather who started doing hard drugs just before my mother left him. Those were some terrible years.

I guess I'll say this: As far as paternal side of things go, I don't know what it means to really have a father or feel supported by a male. That kind of relationship has always been somewhat mythical, although I've had good mentoring relationships with some men, and I love my partner, but it's not really the same thing. With authorities, it's always felt it more of a relationship of equals in many ways, or an imbalance of power... if only because I've never had the illusion of authority figures being great and wise, but more often troubled, lost and even pitiful in the case of my stepfather.
 
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astralrabbit

Account Closed
I guess I'll say this: As far as paternal side of things go, I don't know what it means to really have a father or feel supported by a male. That kind of relationship has always been somewhat mythical, although I've had good mentoring relationships with some men, and I love my partner, but it's not really the same thing. With authorities, it's always felt it more of a relationship of equals in many ways, or an imbalance of power...

My children's mother's both have this aspect. One is a Cancer Sun and Asc Square Pluto and Saturn. The other a Capricorn Sun , Cancer Asc, with both square Pluto. The aspect to the Ascendant is closer. Both Women's fathers were distant during their childhood. Both of there fathers took there brothers when they were young as well and did not have much to do with the women.
Sigh....It was always tough being able to see that pain and work with it, because they only knew anger and sadness. And when they are hurt they seemingly exacerbate that same energy or power so to speak in effort to protect their emotional well being, not realizing that they are in effect creating the same damage that they experienced as children. Can I say that all folks with this aspect will act this way. I can't say for certain, for I have only have these two women with this aspect to study,out of all of the charts that I have. I know this is a very powerful aspect that can easily precipitate out of control when the energy of "hell hath no fury like a woman scorn", is executed. My advice to any one with this aspect is to recognize this energy and learn to work with it in a positive expression and not to allow it to create a repetitive cycle.
 
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Flapjacks

Well-known member
My children's mother's both have this aspect. One is a Cancer Sun and Asc Square Pluto and Saturn. The other a Capricorn Sun , Cancer Asc, with both square Pluto. The aspect to the Ascendant is closer. Both Women's fathers were distant during their childhood. Both of there fathers took there brothers when they were young as well and did not have much to do with the women.

Interesting to have the Sun closer to Asc or Dsc for the different women. That signals an experience that is much more self-focused/other-focused than the Sun alone would suggest.

My Sun/Mercury is in the 3rd house. My half-siblings are also distant/inaccessible, much older than me, and my brother was raised by his father (my brother has Sun/Pluto tightly conjunct and the apex of a kite formation).
 

astralrabbit

Account Closed
Interesting to have the Sun closer to Asc or Dsc for the different women. That signals an experience that is much more self-focused/other-focused than the Sun alone would suggest.

My Sun/Mercury is in the 3rd house. My half-siblings are also distant/inaccessible, much older than me, and my brother was raised by his father (my brother has Sun/Pluto tightly conjunct and the apex of a kite formation).

The Father's that I speak on above are very executive power oriented gentleman. Very strong willed. They were done with the drama that was happening pertaining to there situation and just ended it by leaving and taking their sons. That, of course, left issues of abandonment for the women and set the stage for a strong desire to heal that reality in whatever manner feasible to their sub-conscious. Now worth mentioning is that both of the women's mothers have a Sun Pluto Square as well. I just noticed this!
In the case of one of the mother's, her parents were addicted to heavy illegal drugs and alcohol and ended up having all of the children taken by the social services, with power struggles ensuing during the return of the children. The other mother's father was a pilot in the Navy. He was never there for being deployed the majority of his career, from my understanding and her mother was a high school teacher; very tough woman.
In reflection of the stories spoken to me by all of these women, I can report that they all had this sense of no control or structure over what was happening in their lives as children and I can not help but to feel that that instability of routine lacking the most important men of their lives was a very significant driving force that is reflected in their drive to control what they can with in there environment, thus a wonderful a reflection of the Sun square Pluto aspect. Worth mentioning is that 3 out of the 4 have a Cancer Sun or Ascendant. I feel like that is significant considering the nature of the Cancerian stereo-type.

If I may ask a question about your brothers chart? What planet is the focal point of that Kite formation?
 

Flapjacks

Well-known member
If I may ask a question about your brothers chart? What planet is the focal point of that Kite formation?

He has Sun/Pluto (Libra) opposite Moon (Aries).

My brother is very close to his father. They are in business together farming, landscaping, woodworking and mining for precious stones on a large property. He went to live with his father when he was a boy. I think it was a good decision for him, as his father is a very loving, gentle and capable person who has taken great care of him. I'm actually a little jealous.
 

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astralrabbit

Account Closed
He has Sun/Pluto (Libra) opposite Moon (Aries).

My brother is very close to his father. They are in business together farming, landscaping, woodworking and mining for precious stones on a large property. He went to live with his father when he was a boy. I think it was a good decision for him, as his father is a very loving, gentle and capable person who has taken great care of him. I'm actually a little jealous.

I observe in his chart what you state here. I would have to say that his chart conveys a sense of devout inner determination needed to mold such earth into a way of life.

You know; It is so easy for us to replicate that energy of our up bringing if we do not make an attempt to direct our energies into breaking the cycle once we are aware that we are unhappy with those cycles that we continue to create. We just have to keep pushing for an inner peace that is there right~
 

R4VEN

Well-known member
I am returning (briefly) after a long time away from this site, and am interested in this discussion, as Pluto fascinates me.

I have Sun-Pluto conjunction in Leo in 7th house ........

My father (Scorpio Sun and Mercury - no idea of his time of birth, and he's been dead almost 27 years) was very distant emotionally, and communicated negative. rules-based issues to me via my mother. He was a tea-totaller, and a staunch church-goer, so how he interpreted the Bible became the Rules To Live Our Lives By. There was never any negotiating these `rules'. (I also have Capricorn Rising, so issues to do with rules and authority have been around me all my life. Plus, my chart ruler is in the 8th house)
I have repeated this relationship with my (now) ex-husband, who has Scorpio Asc, and would rarely consult me when making significant decisions, especially those involving $$$. He just didn't `see' me, and was always very distant and unavailable emotionally.

I am now sharing my home with one of my sons - also with Scorpio Asc - who has no contact with his father for the past 7-8 years, but behaves very much like him.

I know that my father felt very threatened by women - both intellectually and sexually. His marriage to my mother only ever endured because she soon learned how to play the game by his `rules'. That was her method of surviving. He was only ever violent towards my brothers, whom he'd physically beat quite regularly, and then they would pass on this violence to me in the form of severe (and i mean severe) bullying, which was never ever properly addressed in my family of origin. Remarkably, my brothers have become fine, peaceful adults.

No crime in my father's line, although there were a lot of depressed and unfulfilled women scattered throughout the family tree.
 

R4VEN

Well-known member
One thing I meant to mention in my post above (but didn't wish the post to become too large) is to address the terms `violence' and `crime', as these have been mentioned in this thread in relation to harsh Sun-Pluto aspects.

Referring back to my post above, both my father and ex-husband never displayed any overt violence towards me themselves, but both used withholding the $$$ as a means to control me. I think it important to mention that any harsh aspect between Pluto and the Sun will have the native on the receiving end of CONTROL BY OTHERS, beginning with the parents (usually) Those who use violence against others are aiming to control them.

As for the crimes, whether something is a crime or not changes over time. In my own life (as a female) I have *felt* much of the behaviour of my father (and compliant-to-his-wishes mother) to be as a crime against my own right to live the life I have wanted to.

If you're talking about police and authority figures, my suggestion would be to check whether Saturn is harshly aspected also. For me, Sun-Pluto conjunct involves early attempts to control me, and to bring me into line with what the chief family `authority' figure wanted/needed.

Those with the Sun-Pluto conjunct will have opportunities for transformation throughout their lives. The struggles and difficulties experienced as Pluto forms harsh transits to the natal Sun - eg square or opposition - are massive opportunities for transformation from the inside out.

What I am saying is that I have learned to love my Pluto-Sun conjunction. Not everyone is born with such opportunity for growth and change.
 

Arena

Well-known member
Flapjack,
May I ask you out of curiousity where is Neptune placed in your chart and what aspects does it make?
Your father a drunk and stepfather as well?
Sounds like the negative neptune symbolism.

I have Sun-Pluto square, though out of sign (Sun late Cancer, Pluto early Scorpio). Also have Moon-Pluto square and Merc-Pluto square (t-square)

-I have very strong Pluto synastry with my grandfather (father's father); Pluto square Pluto, his Pluto conjunct my Sun/Mercury. We don't have a very close relationship. He scares the **** outta me. He's a very stubborn and domineering man. Passive aggressive. A Scorpio Moon.

-My relationship with my dad is emotionally distant, but otherwise fairly good. On an intellectual level we get along great. It was a lot more strained when I was young and he was still drinking. His relationship with his father also seems distant. I can tell he feels left out of family matters; but I think the family doesn't think he shows enough interest and support.

-Both father and grandfather have alcohol problems. My dad's brother has a history of being suicidal. Their mother died when they were young. My grandfather remarried their grief counselor. Then she died a few years later (she was abusive towards my father; he says he used to hide in the closet after school until his father came home). After that woman died, my grandpa remarried again to a woman whose son and grandchildren died in a fire. My uncle's wife died a few years ago and my grandpa's sister died last year. Reunions tend to have this undercurrent of sadness. It seems all the men in my dad's family are cursed to lose the women in their lives. :sad:

-I am my father's only child, and his brother has none. Their sister is carrying on the family with two children and so, unless I keep my last name after getting married, our family name dies with me as the youngest member who still uses it.

-I had an drunk, violent criminal stepfather who started doing hard drugs just before my mother left him. Those were some terrible years.

I guess I'll say this: As far as paternal side of things go, I don't know what it means to really have a father or feel supported by a male. That kind of relationship has always been somewhat mythical, although I've had good mentoring relationships with some men, and I love my partner, but it's not really the same thing. With authorities, it's always felt it more of a relationship of equals in many ways, or an imbalance of power... if only because I've never had the illusion of authority figures being great and wise, but more often troubled, lost and even pitiful in the case of my stepfather.
 
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