Is This The Most Challenging Chart You've Ever Seen?

Neptune Moon

Neptune Moon

Member
Hi,

I'm new to this forum and pretty new to astrology in general.

I've has three astro readings in my life. One, in India, where I had a reading from a prominent astrologer who took one look at my chart, looked worried, said very little and then abruptly left the room. Years later, I had a reading in Los Angeles where the astrologer only mentioned the 8th and 12th house planets and not much else. I developed an interest in these two houses, studied them as much as I could, and a then had another reading from an astrologer in Chicago. She told me that in 600+ reading, she had only seen a grand cross like this once previously. Yikes.

Now I am fascinated by astrology and would like to learn as much as possible about the grand cross, the 8th and 12th house and anything else that is pertinent.

Before astrology, I never thought that I had a very difficult life. At times I thought of myself as pretty lucky overall. Perhaps Neptunian delusion? Now I am thinking back and trying to see things in a new light.

Anybody interested in looking at this chart and its pros and cons would be appreciated. (chart attached)
 

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katydid

Well-known member
I think your life might have been pretty lucky and blessed overall. This is no where near the most challenging chart I've seen. Although it is a grand square, there are a lot of mitigating aspects and such, that make it a positive chart in some ways.

When one first sees the Moon, on the Asc, and the opposition and 2 squares, forming the Grand Square, it looks imposing and very difficult at first look. But upon further review, they are not super debilitating aspects. A square to Venus is not that diabolical, nor is the opposition to Jupiter. Many ancients saw any aspect between Moon/Venus/Jupiter as beneficial. Lucky even.

Of course, adding Saturn as the 4th angle adds distress and difficulty. But Saturn is at home in Aquarius and has an outlet to the Sun/Mercury in Libra in the 10th. [sesqui-square (135 degrees)---so the Saturn may instead be an antidote for the lack of focus that Venus in Virgo, squared by Moon/Jupiter, can bring. Saturn in the third can bring the abiity to research, thing things through clearly and logically, even under duress.

This grand square has very nice strong release points at the top of the chart. Mars is the Midpoint of the Sat/Jupiter square . Mars sextiles Sun/Mercury. And that Sun/Mercury is the midpoint of the Neptune/[Uranus/Pluto] sextile.
That elevates the Sun /Mercury to a very spiritual, highly evolved , plane.

So NO, this is not the most challenging/difficult chart, in my opinion. I think there is a lot of wisdom from past incarnations, or an old soul type of wisdom that allows one to use a heightened sense of intuition to guide oneself through difficulties. I love this chart. [part one]
 
Neptune Moon

Neptune Moon

Member
Thank you, appreciate the feedback.

Nobody see's this chart the same way at all, and the positive viewpoint, the first of it's kind, is a relief of sorts.

Can you expand on this point quoted below. Certainly spiritual quests, and lately, occult interests have been a theme of my life, however, my path has been one that I would call apophatic, or as they would say in the east "not this, not this".

So I am left in the wind at this point. No solid ground to stand on, no particular path, practice, affiliation, career or attachments. It doesn't really worry me though. More like fascinated and curious. What could be the point of this strange incarnation?

This grand square has very nice strong release points at the top of the chart. Mars is the Midpoint of the Sat/Jupiter square . Mars sextiles Sun/Mercury. And that Sun/Mercury is the midpoint of the Neptune/[Uranus/Pluto] sextile.
That elevates the Sun /Mercury to a very spiritual, highly evolved , plane.
 
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katydid

Well-known member
I can see why might feel as if you are in a strong head wind with no secure solid ground. That kind of describes the chart, with Sun/Mercury being the only planets in the cardinal mode, and being in Cardinal AIR. Perhaps most of your progress and motivation comes in intellectual pursuits, communication, artistry, and the search for the key to world peace. The Libran scales are seeking perfection, the perfect balance, and everything falls short. The aesthetic search for total harmony, beauty, artistic perfection sets you up as an arbiter, or a judge at times. Others may feel that you are judgmental, or condescending or shallow in your criticisms or rejection. But it is nothing personal, and you must keep it moving.

The release points in a Grand Square are denoted by the beneficial aspects which connect to them. The outlet in this Grand Square is the Sun/Mercury in 10th in Libra. All of the planets have an aspect to this duo, and they midpoint the Grand Square, thus they receive the brunt of the energy, and release it in a way other than with a square or opposition. [ Sextile to Mars in Leo in 8th, semisextiles to Neptune and to Pluto.]

The 'higher triad' of Uranus/Neptune/Pluto are in a tight sextile in the 9th/12th. That is a very high vibration of metaphysical energy. It may form in the sky and have no connection to a random individual's chart. However it is making a dynamic footprint on your chart in a very personal way by hovering over your Sun/mercury, and semi-sextiling from each side. That makes Sun/Mercury the midpoint of the sextile formed by the higher triad. I see it as you being a conduit for those supreme vibrations. As one who can tune into the higher forces and try to decipher this crazy world in a religious, spiritual, or magical way, perhaps.

It is a difficult chart in that others cannot easily share nor comprehend visions, epiphanies, and unique discoveries. Do you have a partner to share it with?


{ in the first post I mistakenly said Mars was Midpoint of Jupiter /Saturn square. I meant to say Mercury.]
 
ashriia

ashriia

Well-known member
Neptune Moon said:
I've has three astro readings in my life. One, in India, where I had a reading from a prominent astrologer who took one look at my chart, looked worried, said very little and then abruptly left the room. Years later, I had a reading in Los Angeles where the astrologer only mentioned the 8th and 12th house planets and not much else. I developed an interest in these two houses, studied them as much as I could, and a then had another reading from an astrologer in Chicago. She told me that in 600+ reading, she had only seen a grand cross like this once previously. Yikes.
Click to expand...

When I read things like the above quoted material I am really amazed at the behavior of these so called "professional" astrologers. With that level of tactlessness they have no business doing astrological consultations, period.

I also think this is not the most difficult chart I've seen. Saturn in hard aspect to venus and moon are a bit rough to be sure. But Jupiter placed in the 6th, and ruling the ascendant doesn't seem bad at all. Even with it's difficult aspects. IMO, Jupiter lightens up the grand cross. And jupiter squares to luminaries (moon,sun) or venus are usually not so bad. Saturn on the other hand can be hard when in square to Moon or Venus. Also the orbs on the grand cross are not super tight, either. which helps.

Conjunction of Sun/Merc- you probably will also look younger than your physical age. Moon conjunct ascendant gives a round, very expressive face. What I see as the most difficult aspects in the chart is not the grand cross, but rather ruler of the IC being located in the 12th house and squared to Mars in the 8th.

Just out of curiousity, since I'm also a saturn in the 3rd native.. are you an only child? or were you raised by older women or a grandparent?
 
Neptune Moon

Neptune Moon

Member
katydid said:
I can see why might feel as if you are in a strong head wind with no secure solid ground. That kind of describes the chart, with Sun/Mercury being the only planets in the cardinal mode, and being in Cardinal AIR. Perhaps most of your progress and motivation comes in intellectual pursuits, communication, artistry, and the search for the key to world peace. The Libran scales are seeking perfection, the perfect balance, and everything falls short. The aesthetic search for total harmony, beauty, artistic perfection sets you up as an arbiter, or a judge at times. Others may feel that you are judgmental, or condescending or shallow in your criticisms or rejection. But it is nothing personal, and you must keep it moving.

The release points in a Grand Square are denoted by the beneficial aspects which connect to them. The outlet in this Grand Square is the Sun/Mercury in 10th in Libra. All of the planets have an aspect to this duo, and they midpoint the Grand Square, thus they receive the brunt of the energy, and release it in a way other than with a square or opposition. [ Sextile to Mars in Leo in 8th, semisextiles to Neptune and to Pluto.]

The 'higher triad' of Uranus/Neptune/Pluto are in a tight sextile in the 9th/12th. That is a very high vibration of metaphysical energy. It may form in the sky and have no connection to a random individual's chart. However it is making a dynamic footprint on your chart in a very personal way by hovering over your Sun/mercury, and semi-sextiling from each side. That makes Sun/Mercury the midpoint of the sextile formed by the higher triad. I see it as you being a conduit for those supreme vibrations. As one who can tune into the higher forces and try to decipher this crazy world in a religious, spiritual, or magical way, perhaps.

It is a difficult chart in that others cannot easily share nor comprehend visions, epiphanies, and unique discoveries. Do you have a partner to share it with?


{ in the first post I mistakenly said Mars was Midpoint of Jupiter /Saturn square. I meant to say Mercury.]
Click to expand...

I am amazed at the things an experienced astrologer can see in a chart.

All rings true. Yes, I can seek perfection and be too hasty in moving on from relationships that don't vibrate on the highest of levels, and yes, there must be hurt feelings because of this. Not good, I know.

No, I don't have have anybody to share this with as I live in an almost-constant mystical mindset and have not found anybody on the same wavelength.

Does North Node in the 7th have anything to do with this? Relationship karma, perhaps?
 
Neptune Moon

Neptune Moon

Member
ashriia said:
When I read things like the above quoted material I am really amazed at the behavior of these so called "professional" astrologers. With that level of tactlessness they have no business doing astrological consultations, period.

I also think this is not the most difficult chart I've seen. Saturn in hard aspect to venus and moon are a bit rough to be sure. But Jupiter placed in the 6th, and ruling the ascendant doesn't seem bad at all. Even with it's difficult aspects. IMO, Jupiter lightens up the grand cross. And jupiter squares to luminaries (moon,sun) or venus are usually not so bad. Saturn on the other hand can be hard when in square to Moon or Venus. Also the orbs on the grand cross are not super tight, either. which helps.

Conjunction of Sun/Merc- you probably will also look younger than your physical age. Moon conjunct ascendant gives a round, very expressive face. What I see as the most difficult aspects in the chart is not the grand cross, but rather ruler of the IC being located in the 12th house and squared to Mars in the 8th.

Just out of curiousity, since I'm also a saturn in the 3rd native.. are you an only child? or were you raised by older women or a grandparent?
Click to expand...

Again, I'd love to know how you see these things. Years of study?

I am often told that I look 10 years younger than my age. My face is roundish and can be very expressive, but only in very relaxed situations. Saturn in the 3rd often gives me a poker-faced, neutral look.

I am not an only child but often feel like one. I was raised by a very young mother who had a difficult relationship with her mother, which had a such a strong influence on things, you could say I was raised by a grandparent by proxy.

Can you elaborate on this statement? Thnx.

What I see as the most difficult aspects in the chart is not the grand cross, but rather ruler of the IC being located in the 12th house and squared to Mars in the 8th.
 
ashriia

ashriia

Well-known member
Astrology is alot like mathematics but with a human component. But unlike mathematics the answers are not fixed. So once you learn the basics, it just a matter of putting the puzzle together. Feedback, is crucial in the learning process though. Because there are so many variables in the way an aspect or placement can manifest, understanding the many variables is where the knowledge of a placement comes in for future reference.

Ruler of the IC - the home/parent/generational past/and the internal landscape being Pisces, with it's ruler in the 12th house..and in square aspect to Mars in the 8th. - My take on this, ...is to be careful of what you open yourself up to.. as you are likely highly sensitive in a psychic sense. 12th Neptune in aspect to Mars in 8th in general, seems like a placement that warrants caution. For instance not dabbling in magic, because there is a likelihood of inviting trouble/forces/energy to you. That sort of thing. Neptune is quite happy in its home, however in the 12th. But since it also is ruling over the inner landscape, best to keep thing positive/spiritual at resonating at a higher vibration.


I only mentioned that it seem the most difficult because the configuration being a part of the early foundation/home life. At first I thought perhaps you were raised in foster care due to it.

It's a good placement for adoption though. Do you have any rescued pets? Or have you considered adopting a child?
 
Neptune Moon

Neptune Moon

Member
ashriia said:
It's a good placement for adoption though. Do you have any rescued pets? Or have you considered adopting a child?
Click to expand...

No, have not thought about it.

Curious, in addition to having Saturn in the 3rd, I noticed that you also have Moon in the 12th, very close to the AC. Same as my chart. Any observations about how these two placements may work together and affect the rest of your chart?
 
conspiracy theorist

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
Most challenging? Nope.

Supposedly what the indian astrologer was soiling himself about was the grand cross? Well, sidereally all planets in the cross would be fixed, with Venus being an "accidental" malefic on the count of its rulership of the 12th and 6th. Maybe that's what he saw.

Tropically, your chart is no where close to the top percentile of devilry. For one I wouldn't count it as a "true" grand cross because two planets are common with the others being fixed. It doesn't have the potency it could have if all the planets were in the same modality.

Secondly, the orbs are separating with the square between Venus and jupiter being particularly wide. 8 degrees and separating...not that strong at all.

Thirdly, the planets involved sans Saturn are the "nice" planets.

Fourthly, because your chart is diurnal the "greater malefic" satan (Saturn) is on your side. Dignified and disposes your Libra Sun through exaltation. Saturn squares aren't ideal but in your case he won't be as malevolent.

No need to worry
 
Neptune Moon

Neptune Moon

Member
conspiracy theorist said:
Most challenging? Nope.

Supposedly what the indian astrologer was soiling himself about was the grand cross? Well, sidereally all planets in the cross would be fixed, with Venus being an "accidental" malefic on the count of its rulership of the 12th and 6th. Maybe that's what he saw.

Tropically, your chart is no where close to the top percentile of devilry. For one I wouldn't count it as a "true" grand cross because two planets are common with the others being fixed. It doesn't have the potency it could have if all the planets were in the same modality.

Secondly, the orbs are separating with the square between Venus and jupiter being particularly wide. 8 degrees and separating...not that strong at all.

Thirdly, the planets involved sans Saturn are the "nice" planets.

Fourthly, because your chart is diurnal the "greater malefic" satan (Saturn) is on your side. Dignified and disposes your Libra Sun through exaltation. Saturn squares aren't ideal but in your case he won't be as malevolent.

No need to worry
Click to expand...

Very nice. Any advice on how to maximize the more positive aspects in the chart?
 
R

RaRohini

Well-known member
Hi !
I am a student of vedic astrology and by no means do i qualify to comment on the Indian Astrologers actions. As per vedic chart , your moon and Ascending are in Anuradha Nakshatra (Scorpio) which is debilitated moon. But your Mercury and Sun in Virgo makes up for it. Your purpose in life may be to extend friendship beyond boundaries with the use of creativity (involving hands..because if prominance of Hasta Nakshatra)..you are very analytical and perfectionist. Please try to let go of perfectionism.. flow with the wind and relax. Your ideal partner would a person with heavy Taurus influence ..Taurus moon and Ascending preferably. He would give you a grounding in the material world.He would stabilise the negatives. By no means the worst chart. Good luck !
 
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Neptune Moon

Neptune Moon

Member
Nice post Ashira, lot of good info in there, but also agree with Caprising, that nervous break down might be due to other elements.

I have a 12th house moon hugging the AC and do get people saying "you can be so sensitive". However sometimes I feel too stable and feel like I could deal with almost anything. Can't imagine what a nervous breakdown would even feel like.

Can a grand cross make a person too stable? Emotionally unwavering if necessary?
 
K

katydid

Well-known member
Speaking of 12th house Moons, and any planets really, I have always noted the difference of expression in the placement. For example, if the Moon is one or two degrees from the Ascendant then it feels more like a First House placement than a 12th house one.

I have Jupiter @ 19 Taurus and my ASC is 21 Taurus. My Jupiter is heavily aspected: exact opposition to Merc/Scorpio, exact Trine to Uranus in Cancer,inconjunct Saturn/Neptune in Libra.

I feel that my Jupiter is more like a 1st house placement because it is so closely conjunct the Asc.

I think the Moon in this chart is more like a 1st house placement than a 12th house. :sideways:
 
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