Virgo represents our femininity

waybread

Well-known member
GarnishedCrab, it's late in my time zone so I am going to check out now. I should be back tomorrow.

Let me repeat:

Is a basket of simplistic character traits the best astrology has to offer???

At what point do we talk to the human being, who may be hurting or confused, and seeking advice or solace? At what point do we suggest their life purpose, beyond a job or getting their sh*t together?

The entire LGBTQ movement is truly asking us to rethink our traditional notions of masculine and feminine.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Couple things re to this discussion of Virgo;
-I have 25 deg. Virgo as my natal ascendant; I have always been an “intellectual type” bookish and analytical-all very typical of sign dispositor mercury;
-I have looked younger than my age for many years; eg I am now 72 and most people who have said so believe me to be in my 50’s’;
-still I believe Virgo mythology is validly connected with the symbology of goddesses moreso than any other zodiacal sign
 
GarnishedCrab, you're falling into a kind of logical fallacy, which is that if someone has a different view of a sign (or of astrology more generally) than you do, she must have had a bad experience with it. Can you see how you try to reduce someone's argument to her assumed undigested emotions about a past event?

This ploy is not only a turn-off, but it can cause you to overlook the gist of the person's statements.

I've been studying astrology for over 30 years. By now I've got a few hundred books and articles in my home library, and I've read a few thousand charts for people. That doesn't give me any gold stars, but it does mean that I normally stand behind what I post.

Incidentally, I've had good and bad experiences with Leos. They are not all identical, as you know. My sister is a sun Leo. My moon is in Leo. Every sign has positive and negative traits. Including Virgo.

But then, is a basket of simplistic character traits the best astrology has to offer???


I’m saying exactly the same thing here , you’re turning the tables round now and playing the victim card that I’m packing words into your mouth “I studied astrology for 30yeArs” “so therefore your opinions or observations are not tolerated “ and whatever you say is wrong apart from my opinions “

If you do not like a sign then keep it to yourself , this is why I get most of my information from professional astrologers cos some others out there will spread wrong vile informations about a sign they have a problem with , first you claimed you were a Virgo AC and is nothing like I explained which is fine then you suddenly move on to how Leos are this and that , and next thing you’re talking about how I’m disagreeing with you despite having the most accurate opinions and having studied astrology for years , like I said it’s not a competition, if I was as shallow minded as you claimed I would’ve first asked you for your sun sign so I can use it against you during our argument but no I didn’t cos it’s just astrology and not politics
 

david starling

Well-known member
Couple things re to this discussion of Virgo;
-I have 25 deg. Virgo as my natal ascendant; I have always been an “intellectual type” bookish and analytical-all very typical of sign dispositor mercury;
-I have looked younger than my age for many years; eg I am now 72 and most people who have said so believe me to be in my 50’s’;
-still I believe Virgo mythology is validly connected with the symbology of goddesses moreso than any other zodiacal sign


Okay, that confirms my opinion that a Virgo Ascendant is about facilitating learning. It doesn't have to be in the teaching profession, but it's a patient willingness to help others to increase their knowledge. You and waybread demonstrate this quite well.
 
Okay, that confirms my opinion that a Virgo Ascendant is about facilitating learning. It doesn't have to be in the teaching profession, but it's a patient willingness to help others to increase their knowledge. You and waybread demonstrate this quite well.

No waybread is more centered on the fact that she doesn’t like virgos or Leos
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Okay, that confirms my opinion that a Virgo Ascendant is about facilitating learning. It doesn't have to be in the teaching profession, but it's a patient willingness to help others to increase their knowledge. You and waybread demonstrate this quite well.

Yes-I was a professor of homeopathic medicine for 25 years….
 
Couple things re to this discussion of Virgo;
-I have 25 deg. Virgo as my natal ascendant; I have always been an “intellectual type” bookish and analytical-all very typical of sign dispositor mercury;
-I have looked younger than my age for many years; eg I am now 72 and most people who have said so believe me to be in my 50’s’;
-still I believe Virgo mythology is validly connected with the symbology of goddesses moreso than any other zodiacal sign

Yes dr.farr this is all I’m saying, Virgo has all the mercurial tendencies yes but as a sign apart from ruling planets it is by far the most femininity personified cos it represents goddesses and everything associated with females according to the Babylonians, which is why Alan Leo made the moon it’s ruler in esoteric astrology
 
That would be unlikely, with her Moon in Leo and Virgo Asc. Aquarian Suns tend to be rather highly opinionated though, and usually don't mind showing it. :lol:

Omg she’s an Aquarius ? I should’ve known!!!!!! Air signs especially the women are very pressed about gender roles and would literally tear you apart with illogical opinions if you do not agree with them , I came across a post on google with title “most feminine zodiac sign “ and the author who happened to be an Aquarius sun claimed that air signs were the most feminine, like delusional much!!!!!!!
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Yes-I was a professor of homeopathic medicine for 25 years….

I didn't know that. It's about your helpful attitude here, on this astrology forum.

Both you and waybread have an "If it works for you, fine, but this is what works for me" philosophy when it comes to astrology. Politics may be quite a different matter!
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Omg she’s an Aquarius ? I should’ve known!!!!!! Air signs especially the women are very pressed about gender roles and would literally tear you apart with illogical opinions if you do not agree with them , I came across a post on google with title “most feminine zodiac sign “ and the author who happened to be an Aquarius sun claimed that air signs were the most feminine, like delusional much!!!!!!!

That's politics, not astrology. Is your Sun-sign what it looks like from your username?
If you don't mind saying.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Gender doesn't really apply to astrology signs imo.

Fire and Air are naturally assertive and "out-front". Earth and Water are naturally receptive and circumspect. That's across gender lines.

We're all a mix of these characteristics, with the Sun-signs usually (not always) showing It the most, although in various ways.
 
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Waybread was logically pointing out that Virgo men aren't usually very feminine. How can you explain that if you think otherwise?

No that’s not what she meant , she was saying Leos are arrogant and as a Virgo ac herself she isn’t as I explained and that’s not my problem but my problem is how she began sounding hostile , this is an open topic for debates but she immediately tapped into her detrimented Aquarius sun by being dogmatic
 
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waybread

Well-known member
Hi, again--I'm just reviewing last night's posts, and came across this one.

I agree with this , we all have different placements both feminine and masculine energies.....The Virgo constellation was a composite of all goddesses in all cultures including Athena Yh but a lot of people who are very pressed about gender roles will look for the most irrelevant reasons to prove you wrong like it’s a competition on who’s the most in every aspect of astrology, well I understand cos our society sees femininity as attraction so I have noticed a pattern in the fire / air sign females resenting we water / earth signs cos we’re known to be the feminine signs......to me it all boils down to how you carry yourself at the end of the day

I think it's great if you find Virgo as an emblem of ultra-femininity to be meaningful in your life. At some level, we all personalize astrology.

However: Unless we want to get all post-modern about this, at some level, purported factual statements are factually accurate, partly accurate, or inaccurate.

Blame it on my Virgo rising (plus Saturn in Virgo!) but I should point out that there is a field called cultural astronomy that looks at how cultures across different places and historical periods. Many cultures did not "connect the dots" of stars into our familiar western constellations. They imagined different constellations; or possibly in a few cases, very few at all. So a culture that never visualized the constellation Virgo would not see it as representing its goddess.

Also, goddess were not always feminine and healing characters. Some were downright harmful. Some could be both beneficial and harmful, so they had to be appeased (such as through rituals) so that their beneficial natures would predominate. I'm thinking of figures like the Greco-Roman Eris who rejoiced in strife and bloodshed. Ceres could cause drought and withhold the harvest.

Also keep in mind how women go through different stages as we age. Developing their femininity is not uppermost in the minds of women attracted to a mission greater than themselves, for example.

Also, femininity is construed very differently in different cultures, so there is a danger in applying a western Hollywood image of femininity on cultures whose mores may be very different. Examples would include societies where women tattoo their faces with black marks; or where the sine qua non would be the ability to bear a lot of sons. I'm also thinking of African carved figurines of older women with flat pendulous breasts. Not enticing by western standards of youthful femininity, but in those African cultures such an elderly woman is praised as being a mother to her people.
 
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Hi, again--I'm just reviewing last night's posts, and came across this one.



I think it's great if you find Virgo as an emblem of ultra-femininity to be meaningful in your life. At some level, we all personalize astrology.

However: Unless we want to get all post-modern about this, at some level, purported factual statements are factually accurate, partly accurate, or inaccurate.

Blame it on my Virgo rising (plus Saturn in Virgo!) but I should point out that there is a field called cultural astronomy that looks at how cultures across different places and historical periods. Many cultures did not "connect the dots" of stars into our familiar western constellations. They imagined different constellations; or possibly in a few cases, very few at all. So a culture that never visualized the constellation Virgo would not see it as representing its goddess.

Also, goddess were not always feminine and healing characters. Some were downright harmful. Some could be both beneficial and harmful, so they had to be appeased (such as through rituals) so that their beneficial natures would predominate. I'm thinking of figures like the Greco-Roman Eris who rejoiced in strife and bloodshed. Ceres could cause drought and withhold the harvest.

Also keep in mind how women go through different stages as we age. Developing their femininity is not uppermost in the minds of women attracted to a mission greater than themselves, for example.

Also, femininity is construed very differently in different cultures, so there is a danger in applying a western Hollywood image of femininity on cultures whose mores may be very different. Examples would include societies where women tattoo their faces with black marks; or where the sine qua non would be the ability to bear a lot of sons. I'm also thinking of African carved figurines of older women with flat pendulous breasts. Not enticing by western standards of youthful femininity, but in those African cultures such an elderly woman is praised as being a mother to her people.

Did you have to talk about African women like that ? You’re talking about not applying my perception about femininity to every culture but you were the one trying too hard to shove your opinions down my throat with the “I’ve studied astrology for 100years” like I said the Babylonians created the zodiac signs along with the Greeks and Romans and that’s what I’m talking about, any other cultural gender roles I don’t know of , and learn to get your point straight without beating about the bush , or trying to be unnecessarily bigoted
 
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waybread

Well-known member
GC, I note that you deleted two of your previous posts. This may make some of my comments seem out-of-place. Oh, well. Normally I stand by what I write. If I need to correct or retract something I will do it in a subsequent post.

I honestly do not know how to phantom what you just said lol , you were just talking about generalizations weren’t you? So here you’re jumping into conclusion about my perception of astrology because maybe we’re debating on a sign that you don’t really value ? Maybe , maybe not , you have argued with me back and forth on this topic but watch how you’re the only one poking holes at my knowledge and general perception about astrology, that’s why I said astrology is filled with narrow minded opinions including mine lol but it’s very mature to respect the opinions and observations of others while having a healthy and logical debate

In my first post I mentioned my sun-Virgo son. My daughter is also a sun-Mercury Virgo. I love and admire them tremendously. With my own Virgo rising, I think it's a great sign!

Just one that is easily misunderstood.

Two books I strongly recommend to get a discussion of signs on a more dynamic footing are Stephen Forrest, The Inner Sky; and Robert Hand, Planets in Youth (good for all ages.)

Forrest talks about each planet, sign, and house having an evolutionary goal or end-point. To him, living through a sign is a long-term developmental process that leads to more profound goals than static character traits. Hand focuses on aspects.

Aspects are really key. Someone with a tight square or opposition to an angle or planet in Virgo probably won't exemplify the popular delineations of the sign.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Couple things re to this discussion of Virgo;
-I have 25 deg. Virgo as my natal ascendant; I have always been an “intellectual type” bookish and analytical-all very typical of sign dispositor mercury;
-I have looked younger than my age for many years; eg I am now 72 and most people who have said so believe me to be in my 50’s’;
-still I believe Virgo mythology is validly connected with the symbology of goddesses moreso than any other zodiacal sign

Super interesting, Dr. Farr.:cool: Our ascendant degrees are very close. At age 73, my hair has yet to go grey. Virgo rising was more troublesome when I was a young professional, as I was constantly mistaken for a student. I started to dress up, despite a very casual work environment, so that wouldn't happen so often.

I don't have a domiciled planet, but with a chunk of Aquarius in my chart, Mercury and Saturn (or Mercury and Uranus) are in mutual reception.

As I just mentioned, the thing about goddesses is that some of them were downright nasty most of the time; or they had to be propitiated so that their good sides would predominate. Some goddesses got demoted over the centuries, such as Hecate. She was a decent, powerful goddess during Homer's day; but by the early years CE, she had become the goddess of evil witches and black magic.

And then there's Lilith....
 
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