Kabbalistic based theory: Saturn Uranus conjunctions

Allright people, pay attention to this one, it's a real eye opener.

As I wrote in the thread "Kabbalistic Astrology & Jupiter ~ Satur Conjunctions", as to the words of the author, the late Rabbi Joel Dobin,{I quote myself from post #1 of that thread} "He introduces the concept starting with the significance of the number 20. The number 20 is mentioned many times in the building of the Tabernacle, that every young man, upon turning 20, was responsible for the collective good of the community.
As Saturn is the outermost and slower of the two, it was considered by the ancients to be the "the transmitter of the mysteries","... the 'Divine Messenger'. And since the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction was a twenty year occurrence, the idea developed that God passed on the message of His Divine Will at every Jupiter-Saturn conjunction. Jupiter then passed it on to every planet in the Heavens during the year following, since the Planets sunward of Jupiter make at least one conjunction with Jupiter each year. Thus the astrological rational for the necessity of reaching the age of twenty to be counted as a responsible member of the community was that at least one Jupiter-Saturn conjunction would have occurred before the twentieth birthday...and the young man could know God's Will for him by consulting his astrologer."

So, this brought to mind Dane Rudhyars mentioning of the number 28 being the esoteric number of man and Danes mentioning that Saturns orbit arround the Sun is a bit more than 28 years.

28 is the age that our youth ends, it is when the body can no longer completely heal itself and that's what aging is, essentially. The inability to perfectly replicate ourselves cellularly , anymore.
Edgar Cayce mention that every 7 years our bodies have replaced every atom in us with one it has replicated [and that the 5th year is a critical year for this process. If you're not leading as healthy a life as you know you should at least try to do so for the 5th year of these cycles. ..at least that is what I have concluded from the readings, but I'm no doctor and I have no degrees in Science either. Yet I seem to recall reading that Cayce stated something as to this very idea.}

So, an average life span was about 28 years at one time, at another time in history...not too long ago...it was about 56 years. Nowadays it is said to be 84 years and doctors are callin that the natural expected average life span.
Well, if 84 is also the time span of one orbit of Uranus around the Sun then wouldn't Saturn Uranus conjunctions hold even a deeper meaning for mankind as to what God might have planned for an entire generation?
May be?

As three orbits of Saturn equal one orbit of auranus and 7 orbits of Jupiter also add up to 84 years...this prectically all but demands checking out.

So, what I found is that these Saturn Uranus conjunctions occur a few more months than every 44 years and the last one occured on February 12, 1988 and for Philadelphia time as to what is pertinent to the United States that happened at 7:55:47 pm.

Check out the chart...and btw, where-as I've been sticking with the True Nodes for most of the charts I cast, I found that the Mean Nodes does often offer a more pertinent Sabian Sybol to the tenor of the chart as a whole and I may yet completely swithc to using the Mean Node...and it might must be that the Mean Node is more pertinent to mundane charts...time will tell, but you other members can sure be o great assistance in speeding up a lot of this research by contributing your own findings.



Notice that the conjunction occured at 29* Sagitarius 55', that is, in the 30th degree of Sagittarius:
{From Dane Rudhyar's wonderfule book, currently out of print, "An Astrological Mandala"}

"SAGITTARIUS 30°: THE POPE, BLESSING THE FAITHFUL.

KEYNOTE: The need to pay homage to traditional values upon which the Invisible Community of the spirit is built.

The concrete integration of myriads of human individuals within a great religious institution with a long tradition reflects, as well as having produced century after century, an invisible spiritual Community. The 'flag bearer' has now become the 'Pope,' who assumes the role of God's representative on earth. It is a role, but culture is based on embodying great Images and deeply moving symbols in physical reality. The symbol asks of the individual: 'Are you willing to live a transpersonal life as a symbol?' This is the final and supreme statement of that section of the cycle of the year represented by Sagittarius.

This concludes Scene Eighteen. A collectivity of human beings is seen having 'transferred' their sense of spiritual value to a man who has become an incarnation of their common ideal. Keywords: PERSONALIZED WORSHIP. It can be a blessing or in some cases, a curse."


...next the North Node...

I always find that the N.Node surrenders to us symbolically what the entire root precept that all the ephemeral activity at any given moment is all about.
The Mean Node at the exact time of the event of the Saturn Uranus conjunction in 1988 was at 24* Pisces 53', that is, the 25th degree of Pisces.
[ibid]

"PISCES 25°: A RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION SUCCEEDS IN OVERCOMING THE CORRUPTING INFLUENCE OF PERVERTED PRACTICES AND MATERIALIZED IDEALS.

KEYNOTE:The power of the Soul to intervene in the personal life and to induce necessary catharses.

The necessary centralization of the conscious attention and will symbolized by the preceding picture most often bring negative results — exclusivism, pride, jealousy, greed for power and wealth. Every man is a Church that has the Soul as its god, but most men forget the Soul and live according to dogmatic rules and habits which not only have become empty of inner meaning, but very often have been perverted by the demands of the senses and the emotional nature, and by the ego with its rationalizing intellect. A purging or catharsis is needed to restore not only fresh and creative spontaneity, but even more the contact with the Soul and the God-ordained dharma.

This is the last stage in the seventy-first subcycle. It leads significantly to the series of five symbols which concludes the vast cycle, because the final consummation of the process of actualization of the potency inherent in the original Creative Act requires moments of crisis and PURIFICATION."

The Part of Fortune [diurnal formula only, always, please] derived from the Saturn Uranus event chart is at 18* Cancer 54'
....
[ibid]

CANCER 19°: A PRIEST PERFORMING A MARRIAGE CEREMONY.

KEYNOTE: The ritualization of productive interpersonal relationships.

This scene symbolizes the profound need for referring the interplay and the relatively permanent and productive union of all polarities to some third factor which either includes, or transcends and gives spiritual meaning to, the relationship. A conjugal union is essentially and traditionally the union of a man and a woman for the sake of producing progeny able to perpetuate the racial type, the family tradition and the way of life of a particular culture (or 'subculture'), including a set of religious beliefs. The married couple is the basic productive unit in our society - as it has been for millennia in all patriarchal societies. The purpose of any established religion (including tribal cults) is to glorify, sanction and bless with a super-personal meaning all personal and interpersonal activities. This occurs through the 'sacraments,' and indeed through most religious rites.

At this fourth stage of the five-fold sequence we are given the basic technique used in all processes of effectual social or group integration. It is the technique which takes the form of sociocultural, and thus business or religious, ritualization. Through this technique commonplace individual endeavors acquire SANCTION; that is, they are ritualized and indeed 'sanctified.'"

All in all... that's a pretty heavy message, if you ask me...

Good work, ptv.

the chart does have some interesting symbols.

I took a peek at the part of destiny for this chart. its in the 26th of leo. Weve seen this same degree show up quite a bit in the other thread involving the saturn-jupiter conjunction.

"AFTER THE HEAVY STORM, A RAINBOW.

KEYNOTE: Linking above and below, the Covenant with one's divine nature, promise of immortality.

In the Bible the rainbow is the sign of the Covenant established by God with Noah (the cyclic "Seed man") guaranteeing that no longer shall the destructive power of Spirit (the Shiva aspect of the Divine) be used to destroy life on earth. As we come to the third level of the scene of "Release," we find the man who has been able to weather the cathartic storm face-to-face with his divine Archetype; because he has been victorious, a link has been established with his divine Soul-being. Both the human and the divine partners should remain thus linked. H. P. Blavatsky's last words are said to have been: "Keep the Link unbroken" —the Link she forged With the Trans-Himalayan Brotherhood that had sent her into the darkness of nineteenth-century materialism for this purpose.

At the first stage of this thirtieth sequence, the symbol of the rainbow shows us the need to maintain a state of open communication between the Sky and the Earth within our total being —not for the sake of finding an ever-elusive "pot of gold" at the end of the rainbow, for this end is never to be reached, but in order to face the totality of our individual selfhood as it is projected in the many-hued dome of our sky-flung consciousness. After every successfully met crisis, the REVELATION OF WORTH comes to us, and with it comes the promise of success, if only we do our part."

Phoenix Venus said:

Good work, ptv.

the chart does have some interesting symbols.

I took a peek at the part of destiny for this chart. its in the 26th of leo. Weve seen this same degree show up quite a bit in the other thread involving the saturn-jupiter conjunction.

"AFTER THE HEAVY STORM, A RAINBOW.

KEYNOTE: Linking above and below, the Covenant with one's divine nature, promise of immortality.

In the Bible the rainbow is the sign of the Covenant established by God with Noah (the cyclic "Seed man") guaranteeing that no longer shall the destructive power of Spirit (the Shiva aspect of the Divine) be used to destroy life on earth. As we come to the third level of the scene of "Release," we find the man who has been able to weather the cathartic storm face-to-face with his divine Archetype; because he has been victorious, a link has been established with his divine Soul-being. Both the human and the divine partners should remain thus linked. H. P. Blavatsky's last words are said to have been: "Keep the Link unbroken" —the Link she forged With the Trans-Himalayan Brotherhood that had sent her into the darkness of nineteenth-century materialism for this purpose.

At the first stage of this thirtieth sequence, the symbol of the rainbow shows us the need to maintain a state of open communication between the Sky and the Earth within our total being —not for the sake of finding an ever-elusive "pot of gold" at the end of the rainbow, for this end is never to be reached, but in order to face the totality of our individual selfhood as it is projected in the many-hued dome of our sky-flung consciousness. After every successfully met crisis, the REVELATION OF WORTH comes to us, and with it comes the promise of success, if only we do our part."

Click to expand...

Wow... I hadn't calculated any Parts other than the Part of Fortune for the event.
We both know that is also the Sign and degree of the Part of Love that I derive frim the chart I have been proposing is that of the Man from Nazareth.

That's is a quite a 'capper' you posted, P.V.
btw, I've been so busy with other things, personal things, today that didn't allow me the time to do any more study or work with either this chart and thread or the other thread based on Rabbi Dobin's book as to Jupiter Saturn conjunctions.
I have an appt. to have my ailing arm and hand examined on Tuesday, I can't type very much or for too long presently.

Feel free to contribute anything and all that you want P.V.
...seems that I'm really starting to live up to the Sabian Symbol for my natal Mercury in the 28th of Aries. [ibid.] "A LARGE AUDIENCE CONFRONTS THE PERFORMER WHO DISAPPOINTED ITS EXPECTATIONS"

It's a bear to grow old... at least it is presently so for me.

Looking through this sub-forum on Degree Symbolism today for an old thread I initiated pertaining to a different topic this other old thread caught my eye and I thought that I would revive it

I noticed that I only produced one chart for the last such event in 1988 so I decided I would do the tedious and time consuming work of producing the accurate chart for the Saturn Uranus conjunction that occurred in the early 1940's
Since I first initiated this thread I have come to a tentative conclusion and resultant resolution that when I am dealing with the conjunctions of the trans-Saturnian planets I want to make sure that the chart I produce is for a conjunction in which the faster moving planet entered the same exact coordinates as the slower planet after it had done so and that it exited the same coordinates before the slower planet did.

Thus what I do is produce a chart for the exact first moment of them both being in the same coordinates and a chart for the last moment as well and then calculate the full span of time the two charts cover and cast a chart for the half way point.

In this case the only thing that changes is the degree of the Zodiac for the Asc. and Desc from the 6th degree of Cancer/Capricorn to the 7th. The M.C. I.C. degree remains the same and so does the charts Part of Fortune.

But, it is a most interesting chart symbolically consider what came up and that the conjunction occurred on May 3, 1942 which was not quite 5 months after the USA entered World War II.

Here's the chart for the halfway point in the conjunction, which lasted a total of 3 minutes and ten seconds.




...and here's the chart for the first moment that the two planets were in the exact same coordinates a minute and forty seconds earlier, so you can see what little difference it really made...although I fell that it is important to know the exact symbolism that was "put into play" at the moment of true alignment in conjunction.
I still am partial to using the midpoint in time method for this and that the 7th degree is the correct choice for Asc. and Desc.
...but the Sabian Symbols for the 6th degrees of Cancer and Capricorn make just as much sense in perspective to the rest of the chart and the history that was being made at the time.
Perhaps I can get a few opinions from you other members as to what you think is correct or more accurate?



So, the 6th degree of Cancer has the Sabian Symbl of [ibid.]

"CANCER 6°: GAME BIRDS FEATHERING THEIR NESTS.
KEYNOTE: An instinctual dedication of self to new forms of life.
The original symbol (which was subsequently altered) spoke here of 'game birds'; thus we deal with spiritual forces (birds) placed within a social context. As in the symbol for Cancer 1° we see here the beginning of a process; action is definitely oriented toward the future. A new wave of life is starting and a concrete - and no longer symbolical - preparation is made for it. At a social level - we can speak of the pioneering efforts dedicated to the building of a new culture, new institutions.
This is the first stage of the twentieth five-fold sequence. It reveals a preparation for rebirth, and a significant note is sounded by the mention of game birds. What is being built is instinctively - but not yet consciously - offered to a higher level of consciousness. The young-to-be are potential sacrifices to feed human beings. Just as tribal men sacrificed virgins to satisfy the gods. Already the meaning of the second half of the cycle (the first degree of Libra, for instance) is implied, just as the entire social process is implied in the formalism of the marriage ceremony. An appropriate key would be SYMBIOSIS, i.e. a deep unconscious cooperation between different levels of existence, the animal' level producing lives for the sake of the 'human'."

The Sabian Symbol for the 7th degree [ibid.]

"CANCER 7°: TWO NATURE SPIRITS DANCING UNDER THE MOONLIGHT.
KEYNOTE: The play of invisible forces in all manifestations of life.
To the clairvoyant who visualized these symbolic scenes, the nature spirits (or fairies) most likely were thought of as more or less imaginary or ideal creations. At least they were linked with hidden and mysterious processes in nature, and the 'moonlight' emphasizes this otherworldly or elusive character. Thus a contrast is implied between this character and the concrete and material process of building a nest for a physical progeny. The basic concept is that behind all vital processes one can perceive occult forces at work. They operate within a realm often called 'astral' or 'etheric'; and the moon has a deep influence upon that realm, releasing special solar rays of occult potency.
This is the second stage of the twentieth sequence. It contrasts the invisible with the visible, the inner with the outer, the dream and the ideal with everyday reality. In a sense this refers to man's CREATIVE IMAGINATION."


For the Desc. we have for the earlier time [ibid.]
"CAPRICORN 6°: TEN LOGS LIE UNDER AN ARCHWAY LEADING TO DARKER WOODS.
KEYNOTE: The need to complete any undertaking before seeking entrance to whatever is to be found beyond.
Number 10 is a symbol of completion; it symbolizes even more the revelation of a new series of activities just ahead. Yet unless the concluded series is brought to some degree of fulfillment, nothing truly significant is likely to be accomplished by a restless reaching out toward the as-yet-unknown. Number 10 is a symbol of germination, but the seed (Number 9) must have matured well. No natural process can be accelerated safely beyond certain limits.
This represents the first stage in the fifty-sixth five-fold sequence. It establishes a foundation for what will follow. Here man reaches a THRESHOLD in which he may have to pause in order to safeguard his further advance. "

...and for the midpoint in time...[ibid.]
"CAPRICORN 7°: A VEILED PROPHET SPEAKS, SEIZED BY THE POWER OF A GOD.
KEYNOTE: The ability to act as a mouthpiece for the revelation of a transcendent will and truth determining future action.
Here we witness the deepest manifestation of that Power which operates within all relatively permanent social units, especially at the level of tribal organization. A tribe is a bio-psychic whole (or organism) integrated by a collective superphysical Power, the god of the tribe. In the Hebrew tradition this god is YHWH (Yahweh-Jehovah); in earlier tribes it may have been a deified more or less mythical 'Great Ancestor'. All these tribal gods are local manifestations of the very power of 'Life' within the earth's biosphere. It is this deified Power which psychically 'seized' especially sensitive or religiously trained men or women, who became Its mouthpiece — prophets, seers, oracles. That Power operates in our days as well, but in different ways because of the individualization and intellectualization of modern man's consciousness. It binds together and helps to maintain the integration of organized social collectivities. It guides their development by
releasing and focusing through especially open persons the visionary expectation of developments about to occur.
At this second stage of the fifty-sixth sub-cycle the future interacts with the present to release it from the inertial power of the past. Thus this symbol stands in contrast to the preceding one. At the threshold of tomorrow man is allowed to have a vision or revelation of the essential elements of the as-yet-unknown next step in evolution. The key word is MEDIATORSHIP.

Please note that the I.C. at 14* Virgo 22' 29" is conjunct the USA's natal Part of War [Asc. + Mars - Pluto] which is given to be at 14* Virgo 48' 51" ...and as the I.C. of this chart by a mundane interpretation the I.C. represents the "HOW" of the matter of the moment, in the spiritual interpretive manner it is the "WHY"

The M.C. in the 15th of Pisces...which just so happens to by the same sign and degree of my own natal Hermetic Lot of Necessity, it has n special significance though to the USA other than in this chart for the exact moment oif the Saturn Uranus conjunction of May 3, 1942 just a few days shy of being the 5th month mark of the USA's entry into World War II
From Rudhyar's book we get [ibid.]

"PISCES 15°: AN OFFICER INSTRUCTING HIS MEN BEFORE A SIMULATED ASSAULT UNDER A BARRAGE OF LIVE SHELLS.
KEYNOTE: The need for thorough rehearsing before any complex and inherently dangerous social ritual in which power is used or evoked.
In this fifth symbol of a series dealing with the confrontation with superpersonal group or occult power we see a picture which once again synthesizes what the four preceding symbols have implied, rather than stated. In social life, as well as occultism, conflict is always to be expected; one must prepare for it. At the close of the great cycle — in the zodiac, the sign Pisces — a deep-seated struggle is inevitable at least to some extent. It can be a struggle against the ghosts of the unfulfilled past, the 'unlived life', or a confrontation with accumulated and often-eluded karma. Indeed, Pisces refers to a period in the year during which many generals and admirals have been born. The rules of the game, at least in traditional forms of warfare, can be known. One may have to rehearse the dangerous play, just as our astronauts endlessly rehearsed every step in the moon-landings. Individual rashness cannot be tolerated. Even a deliberate sacrifice mustplay a well-conceived part — like the sacrifice of an important piece in a game of chess.
This is the last symbol in Scene Twenty-three. The entire scene dealt in various ways with the process of integration of the individual into a social Whole, a community, an occult Brotherhood. A concluding Keyword could be VALORIZATION. The concept of group-value dominates the entire scene."


The Part of Fortune for all three charts, entry, mid-point, and exit, [ibid.]
"AQUARIUS 14°: A TRAIN ENTERING A TUNNEL.
KEYNOTE: The ability to short-cut the process of natural evolution by the exercise of will, mental skill and physical self-discipline.
In this symbol we see a condensation of what is implied in the three preceding ones. Man must be inspired by a vision of what is possible for him to achieve; he has to organize a schedule of necessary activities if the work is to be done in terms of successive moves, each requiring a specialized type of skill and strength (i.e. a hierarchy of functions); he has to find a propitious time for beginning the work. The end result is an acceleration of the evolutionary process, whether at the psychobiological level (that of yoga and other similar disciplines) or at the social level, i.e. the level at which, in its external aspect, civilization proceeds.
This fourth stage symbol presents a picture of what can be achieved by a combination of social and cultural, and even personal, techniques. It implies the possibility of shortening the length of time needed for progress by cutting through obstacles and delays. The Keyword is PENETRATION."


It all seems very much "spot on" regarding the United States at that time ... the Symbolism is so appropriate that I couldn't have made one up that would be more appropriate.

Such a conjunction is a period of creating in the real new inventions and implementing new ideas it favors such work in mathematics, science and the occult... Recalling what all occurred during the war the atomic bomb being actually built and successfully functional, the legend of the occult interests and pursuits by Adolph Hitler and his inner circle and the rumors that the USA had to also get involved with the very same esoteric, occult, subjects the Nazi's were...just as the USA got into remote viewing because he Soviets had initiated such research.

As to tthe 15th degree of Virgo, the I.C. of this chart also happening to be the natal Part of War of this nation just adds further evidence which has amounted enough to prove that the "Zero Hour" chart [12:00:01 A.M. July 4, 1776 Philadelphia, Penn.] for the USA's natal horoscope is the only one to consider as being the bonafide natal chart for the USA.

Here's what the Sabian Symbol is for this chart's Asc. and which also happens to be the natal Part of War for the USA. [ibid.]

"VIRGO 15°: A FINE LACE HANDKERCHIEF, HEIRLOOM FROM VALOROUS ANCESTORS.
KEYNOTE: The quintessence of deeds well done.
Root strength produces beautiful flowers. The neophyte who acts with determination, courage and discrimination while following 'in the footsteps' of his predecessors receives a symbolic prize from the Brotherhood ready to welcome him when he has fully proven himself on the battlefield where he meets his past, which tries to block his way. The mystic Beloved hands him what she has woven for him out of spiritual threads.
This is the last stage of the thirty-third sequence which also ends the eleventh scene, 'Characterization'. This scene began with the revelation in a portrait of salient features in a man's face. It ends with symbols which bring out the ultimate validity of the many efforts of generations of men toward the building of a beautiful and significant CULTURE. The Man of Culture is, in the deepest and best sense of the term, the Aristocrat. He is the flowering of a line of ancestors who have accepted responsibility for a group or community. Likewise, the true 'disciple' is the blossom that crowns a long series of incarnations. "



...and lastly, as to just what Sign and degree the two planets did conjunct in and what the Sabian Symbol is for that...well, here ya go... [just so happens to be the natal position of my Jupiter, thus I know this Sabian Symbol quite well and am very familiar with it.
The 30th degree of Taurus [ibid.]

"TAURUS 30°: A PEACOCK PARADING ON THE TERRACE OF AN OLD CASTLE.
KEYNOTE: The personal display of inherited gifts.
A great person able to display a multitude of gifts is always, at one level or another, the consummation of a long past of efforts and victories. As a great occultist once wrote: 'Adepts are the flowering of their races and cultures'. The peacock is the bird consecrated to Venus; in occult tradition the Promethean Spirits who gave to animal mankind the divine gift of self-conscious intelligence had come from 'Venus' — which may or may not refer to the physical planet we can observe in the sky.
This is the final symbol of the fourth scene, whose Keyword has been given as 'Confirmation'. This peacock symbol indeed confirms the social status of the owner of the ancestral estate. It indicates a CONSUMMATION of individual efforts; and it suggests that such a consummation is hardly possible except when a line of 'ancestors' — biological or spiritual — forms its base.

Curiosity got the better of me so I spent even more time in low gear to ascertain the chart for the next Saturn Uranus conjunction which will occur on June 28, 2032.

Once again a chart is produced for the event in Philadelphia time with great symbolic significance

Check it out...this is the midpoint of the event, the conjunction, which will occur from 7:00:29. a.m to 7:03:34 a.m., thus this chart is cast for 7:02:01 a.m. Nothing will change on the chart axis or the Part of Fortune from the beginning of the event to it's finish.



As you can see the Asc for the event is in the same Sign and degree as the natal North Node of the USA and the Desc., naturally, in the same Sign and degree as the natal South Node but the 7th of Aquarius also happens to be the location of the USA's natal Hermetic Lot of Eros which symbolizes those individuals that you seek, consciously or subconsciously, to be your 'fellow travelers" on your dharmic path.

The conjunction of the occasion, that of Saturn and Uranus will be in the 29th degree of Gemini.

As it is more than 14 years from now I'll pass on the analysis for the time being... anyone else that wishes to may be my most welcome quest.

piercethevale said:

Curiosity got the better of me so I spent even more time in low gear to ascertain the chart for the next Saturn Uranus conjunction which will occur on June 28, 2032.

Once again a chart is produced for the event in Philadelphia time with great symbolic significance

Check it out...this is the midpoint of the event, the conjunction, which will occur from 7:00:29. a.m to 7:03:34 a.m., thus this chart is cast for 7:02:01 a.m. Nothing will change on the chart axis or the Part of Fortune from the beginning of the event to it's finish.

As you can see the Asc for the event is in the same Sign and degree as the natal North Node of the USA and the Desc., naturally, in the same Sign and degree as the natal South Node but the 7th of Aquarius also happens to be the location of the USA's natal Hermetic Lot of Eros which symbolizes those individuals that you seek, consciously or subconsciously, to be your 'fellow travelers" on your dharmic path.

The conjunction of the occasion, that of Saturn and Uranus will be in the 29th degree of Gemini.

As it is more than 14 years from now I'll pass on the analysis for the time being... anyone else that wishes to may be my most welcome quest.

Click to expand...

I was going over some of the old threads I have initiated and wanted to double check the accuracy of the chart I cast for the Saturn Uranus conjunction of 2032 and much to my surprise I find that astrodienst has since adjusted the time of the event to an hour later than it was given as a little over four years ago in 2018. I can only figure that they've since made consideration for the likelihood that the USA will be observing Daylight Savings time in June of 2032 and hadn't given consideration to it four years ago.
So, just for the sake of accuracy here's the same chart but at a given time of an hour later than the chart above. The Ingress and Egress of Saturn's conj. with Uranus in the exact same coordinates, i.e. 28* Gemini 01' 13" at 29 seconds past the hour and 3 minutes and 34 seconds past the hour remains the same.
The only notable difference is that the Part of Fortune they give is of a difference of one second of a degree. If you will note that the Asc. Sun and Moon are all given the exact same coordinates in the present chart as the one cast in 2018, then if you do the math yourself you will find that astrodienst erred in 2018. Odd, isn't it, how their computer program was somehow incapable of accuracy in calculating such a simple math problem.
Well, the modern adage thus still remains true, that "you [still] just can't trust everything you read on the internet"
Here's the chart for the Saturn Uranus conjunction in 2032 for Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, the birthplace of the U.S.A. cast today, July 17, 2022

Reminds me of the Great Chronocrator concept using the Jup/Sat conjunction.

I notice it's exactly square my Sun in Pisces.

piercethevale said:

Click to expand...

By moving up the time slightly, we still have the conjunction at 29 degrees 55 but at 10 minutes.
Also, using the True Nodes, not Mean Nodes, at 23 degrees, we have Ascendent/Des exactly square MH/IC, with mars exactly on the IC.
Attaching the chart, which makes it ever more powerful.

.

Which puts the ascendent/descendent exactly in conjunction with the Nodes and in exact square to Mars.

piercethevale said:

I always find that the N.Node surrenders to us symbolically what the entire root precept that all the ephemeral activity at any given moment is all about.
The Mean Node at the exact time of the event of the Saturn Uranus conjunction in 1988 was at 24* Pisces 53', that is, the 25th degree of Pisces.
[ibid]

"PISCES 25°: A RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION SUCCEEDS IN OVERCOMING THE CORRUPTING INFLUENCE OF PERVERTED PRACTICES AND MATERIALIZED IDEALS.

KEYNOTE:The power of the Soul to intervene in the personal life and to induce necessary catharses.

Click to expand...

Sorry, by inserting the True nodes at 23 degree 28, it becomes 24 Pisces, rather than 25.
Absolutely don't mean either to correct or to dispute, just adding another viewpoint.

Pisces 24: THE TINY ISLAND SEEMS LOST IN THE BROAD OCEAN, BUT ITS HAPPY INHABITANTS HAVE CREATED A GREAT WORLD ALL THEIR OWN

The keyword is CULTIVATION.

Thank you for all the hard work you put into this.
Fascinating study!

ElenaJ said:

Sorry, by inserting the True nodes at 23 degree 28, it becomes 24 Pisces, rather than 25.
Absolutely don't mean either to correct or to dispute, just adding another viewpoint.

Pisces 24: THE TINY ISLAND SEEMS LOST IN THE BROAD OCEAN, BUT ITS HAPPY INHABITANTS HAVE CREATED A GREAT WORLD ALL THEIR OWN

The keyword is CULTIVATION.

Click to expand...

I'm still in question myself as to whether to use the True or the Mean Node.
In addition, I'm still trying to determine how conjunctions such as these configure with a mundane natal chart. I've got quite a collection of evidence for some aspects as to how they affect a nation... particularly during the Civil War. a number of such for during W.W. II and the Vietnam conflict, and the onset of the arrival of the Flower Children of the '60's, just to name some.
These cast for the next few years ahead...such as the event of the Pluto return, that will happen in 2024 [the Sidereal return] the third return of Uranus, and a few other notable astrological events, I'm pressing on with despite still being in the dark about so much... as for what I've initially seen so far and due to the prediction of the late, 20th century clairvoyant, Edgar Cayce, whom predicted that there will be another civil disturbance in this nation, in this century, that will cause the streets to run red with blood... that will be a conflict between the "Haves and the Have Nots"
All input and opinions are most certainly welcome and ultimately can only be of help in the matter.

I thought that these would be at least of interest if not also helpful in this exercise.

I've got a chart for the first USA's natal Uranus return, sidereal adjusted plus 01* 10' 29.922" on July 7, 1860.
I found it particularly interesting as it was less than a yea from the outbreak of the Civil War and Lilith was spot on the Tropical location of the Part of Intelligence and Skill and the Part of Catastrophe derived from the USA's natal chart. They are both in the 18th degree of Pisces and the Sabian Symbol is about great display of oratory.... which is truly what we as a nation are so skillful at and also our own damning bane.
The speeches made in the Senate at the time, by the likes of Senators, Henry Clay, Daniel Webster, and Rory Calhoun where quite stinging. The were a lot of harsh words coming from both the North and the South in Congress in the years immediately prior o the war. The 1850's were a time of great bitterness and it was an era when speeches were given much preparation and attention. One of the most renowned is Lincoln's speech given at Gettysburg.
Also of note is that Mars was conjunct the natal Tropical Sign and degree of Pluto, that is in the 28th degree of Capricorn and Venus was conjunct the South Node of the return chat. Notice that Saturn is in the 25th degree of Leo, which will be the mid haven of the return chart in 2028. {There's a lot going on in these]
The 2nd return was in July of 1944 but I don't have that chart handy. I also spent this past evening/wee hours of the morning, casting a chart for Uranus' 3rd return which will take place on July 12. 2028. I was a bit stunned to find that the mid haven of the chart is in the 25th degree of Leo which is also the mid haven of my natal birth chart. The Asc. is two degree before my natal Asc. and one degree before my Part of Destiny. It too is sidereal adjusted plus 03* 31' 29.119"
I use the estimated rate of precession given as 50.3496503496..." per year for these adjustments.

The first Uranus natal return of July, 1860

The 3rd natal return of Uranus that will be in July of 2028

The natal position of Uranus in the USA's natal chart is 08° Gem. 53' 06". Uranus went retro on Sept. 12, 1859 @ 07°Gem. 44' conjunct the Part of Destiny [M.C. + Sun - Moon] derived from the USA's natal chart which is at 07°Gem. 59' 09", which is the 8th degree of Gemini. The Sabian Symbol for the Part of Destiny for the United States is so appropriate and is another reason for my concern about heeding the prediction of the late Edgar Cayce that the next conflict in this nation, as like the Civil War, will not be political so much as it will be about economic inequality, that is to say, in Edgar's own words, between the "Have's and the Have Not's" [or haven't enough, or have too little, or have none at all.] From Dane Rudhyar's book on the Sabian Symbols [the only one to have and consult in my humble, but much experienced, opinion] "An Astrological Mandala", is...

"GEMINI 8°: AROUSED STRIKERS SURROUND A FACTORY.

KEYNOTE: The disruptive power of the ambitious mind upon the organic wholeness of human relationship.

We are dealing in this sequence of symbols with man's discovery of the new powers residing in his special contribution to the total organism of this planet Earth — his consciousness and aggressive mind. The first stage (Phase 66) dealt with oil, the typical form of energy which the modern mind has made available. (These symbols were revealed before atomic energy was even thought of as a practical possibility.) Now we see in this new symbol a pictorial indication of what the use of this intellect-generated energy inevitably leads to: industrial unrest and violence. As man manages to rape the earth in order to demonstrate his power and intensify his pleasures and his sense of proud mastery, conflicts and disruptive processes are inevitably initiated.

The arousal is presented to us here in its collective social form because we have reached the emotional-cultural level. The type of power generated by the analytical intellectual faculties is essentially disruptive; it is based on the destruction of matter, and invites egocentric hoarding and spoliation — and, in general, privileges of one kind or another. This leads to a REVOLT AGAINST PRIVILEGES."

Yes, you as an individual have "free will" and the Stars can only impel and not compel, if you apply that will of yours...and most people aren't affected by all the planets and most of you by less than half of them... the trans-Saturnians especially are rare among us, and Uranus is one of those... but as to a nation, a natal chart of a nation is affected by all Astrological conditions, and as it is truly about the psyche of the body politic, and our nation having a population well over 300 million, Astrology will have its way with us. This is literally the symbolic destiny of our society, or the nation. Just as I have demonstrated in regard with the chart I produced, am personally convinced of as being that of Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth, the Astrological Parts are quite relevant to the Sabian Symbol found for the degree of the Zodiac it is in. At least it is for those of us particularly affected by Astrology, but Edgar Cayce added, as like an addendum, after explaining how most people are only affected from around three to six of the Planets [and that includes the Sun and the Moon]that everyone is affected by there Ascendant and all angles to it. That means the House Cusps are symbolically relevant to the affairs of that House [Placidus has proven itself to be the one to use in natal charts for people and I expect it to be the same for the mundane natal charts of nations as well, although I haven't enough proof of that to state it as being assuredly so. There just aren't that many national natal charts that can be trusted to be the actual true chart. The one I use for the United States has proven itself to my complete satisfaction, i.e.The "Zero Hour" chart, as I like to call it, July 4, 1776 @ 12:00:01 a.m., Philadelphia Pennsylvania] As most Astrological Parts [Arabic Parts, Hermetic Lots, and all other Parts using a formula as like those two] use the Asc. for the "Personal Point", a different House cusp, the mid haven, what is derived from those formulae are angles to the Asc. Thus I do believe that Edgar was inferring that though you may not be affected by the planets found in the formula for any given Part, take heed of the Sabian Symbology that you find for the degree your particular Part is found to be in. The Part of Catastrophe is one in particular. It is an inevitable "catastrophe" to you in some way, but a necessity, in order for you to fulfill your own destiny, to complete your dharma, and knowing what it symbolically is given to be, forewarned is forearmed and you can mitigate the damage it might do to your life, or at least you can make a plan based on that.
Occupy Wall Street was just the foreboding rumblings of an agitated and disturbed populace, like those minor little earthquakes that precede the "Big One".

The Sabian Symbol for the USA's natal Uranus is that of the 9th degree of Gemini. [ibid.]

"GEMINI 9°: A QUIVER FILLED WITH ARROWS.

KEYNOTE: Man's aggressive relationship to natural life, as a basis for survival and conquest.

The bow and arrows represent symbolically man's ability to extend the scope of his conquest of nature and to kill enemies in order to build a larger base for the collective development of a culture and an organized society. Implied in the symbol of the arrow is the piercing of a target. The mind of man is essentially a trans-piercing power; it goes through the object toward which it is aimed. It seeks to go through and beyond the obstacles on its path, and this usually implies the destruction of the obstacle. At a higher level — as in the Zen practice of archery — the obstacle is the ego.

At this fourth stage of the fourteenth five-fold sequence of phases in the cyclic process of human existence we are shown the archetypal symbol of Man, the Conqueror. It may be a conquest of outer nature, or that of instinctual drives and of the limiting power of the ego. It is always CONQUEST"

Keeping in mind that Uranus is known as "The Great Awakener" and also as "The Planet of Sudden Change", and that it is the higher octave of Mercury, as rules the 'Higher Mind", that of the collective consciousness as well, Then may those that are of the "Haves and Have More Than They'll Ever Need", that are doing nothing to help their fellow citizens of this nation... the corporate CEOS, the majority stockholders, the slumlords, "Big Pharma", the greedy , not too much civil serving, if at all, politicians that only serve themselves and the interests that bribe them., may you all now so be warned and advised, that day Edgar predicted is coming...and I believe it is coming very soon. [and why do you think the gov't is so interested in gun control, and in truth gutting the second amendment? Need a clue, see the Sabian Symbol for this nations natal Uranus, that which I just gave above.

Now, if you will please note the position of Uranus at it's first return in July of 1860 and that it was in the 11th degree of Gemini.
In 1860, much of this nation at present was still untamed, unsettled, wide open, and ready for the immigrating masses that soon followed. [ibid.]

"GEMINI 11°: NEWLY OPENED LANDS OFFER THE PIONEER NEW OPPORTUNITIES FOR EXPERIENCE.
KEYNOTE: The power and joy of new beginnings."

Yet, I also find just as interesting that Uranus would enter the 12th degree of Gemini, for the first time in 84 years,[As we are dealing with the Sabian Symbols which are permanently affixed to the Equinoxes and the Solstices, i.e. the Tropical Zodiac, we need not concern ourselves with sidereal adjustment, as it is the activation of the Sabian Symbol by the influences of the particular astrologically effective entity, planet, luminary, [asteroid?], Node, [Lilith], dwarf planet [Ceres, and Pluto ain't no danm "Dwarf", it is actually a binary planet and it packs a wallop. Most people aren't affected by it, in fact it affects fewer of us than any other...but Edgar said that Pluto's influence will soon be greatly, and ever increasingly, affecting all of humanity, beginning in this century, or maybe he meant this millennium, but it will be felt, and take it from me, as I am one of the few affected by Pluto, and so is the source of inspiration for the chart I produced, the book I wrote, Miss X aka Khris Toyra, whom has a Pluto conj. Asc, just like that of Yeshu'a/Jesus...see my thread, "The Birth chart of Jesus?" in this same sub forum for degree symbolism] Pluto packs a wallop like no other... and the power and influence it exudes is beyond the imagination of most.] As to whether Astrological Parts are as symbolically relevant to everyone as they actually are to those of us that are particularly affected by astrological forces, that is to say affected by all the Planets, Luminaries, et al, remains for me to be convinced of... I just don't get enough feedback from people...not anywhere near as much as I had once hoped that I would I advise to discover for yourselves but to assume that they do, as they may do so even if you can't seem to find evidence that they have, as they may still but not as intensely as they do to us of the "particularly affected", and those that are born, or chosen, to be, what Dane Rudhyar called as "World Servers".

In regards to a nation however, figure them to be on full burner, for everyone that is of the society, the citizenry, of the United States. Uranus entered the 12th degree of Gemini on July 28, 1860 and then went retrograde on Sept. 16, 1860 at 12° Gem. 02', re-entered the 12th degree in retrograde on Sept. 26 and remained in the 12th degree until it exited it for the 11th degree of Gemini on November 7, 1860 and remained retrograde until Feb. 13, 1861 when at 08° Gem. 00' [almost exactly the culmination of the 8th degree of Gemini, that is the warden of the Sabian Symbol for the USA's Part of Destiny] it went direct again. It again entered the 12th degree of Gemini of July 31st, in 1861, a few months after the Civil War began, exiting for the 13th degree on June 17th.
In 1863, on Feb. 22nd [Washington's Birthday] the Mean South Node entered the 12th degree of Gemini and remained in it until March 13th. The True Node however didn't enter the 12th degree until Feb. 28th and exited on March 6th.

The Emancipation Proclamation was announced on Sept. 22, 1862 and the South was made known that they had 100 days, until January 1, 1863, to rejoin the Union or if they hadn't they the United States proclaimed that it would recognize all enslaved within any of the States borders that hadn't, to be free. It didn't however give that same status to any still enslaved in States that were in the Union or would rejoin the Union... a common misconception among many people. Lincoln didn't proclaim anything as to the sort for that within the borders of the Union, only those States that refused to rejoin and all territories that were in possession of the Union. It had no Constitutional authority to do anything of the sort within the Union. the 13th amendment to the Constitution is what achieved that. It was passed by both House of Congress in January of 1865 and ratified by December of 1865. On July 13 of 1865 Neptune went retrograde at 10° Aries 35" and the sidereal adjusted Part of Liberty [Asc. + Sun - Mercury] was apprx. at 10° Aries 44' 04" at the time. Uranus had conjuncted that Part in 1845.
The militia and the Confiscation acts were passed in July of 1862, allowing Blacks to be in military service as laborers and by wars end nearly 200,000 is estimated to have served. The Conscription act declared that all slaves seized with Confederate States by Union forces would henceforth be considered "Free".

Also of pertinent, and a most interesting, note is that Pluto conjuncted the natal Part of Galvanization, aka the Part of Race, aka the Part of Racial Consciousness, a number of times during the Civil War. It is derived from the formula Asc. + Moon - Pluto, and while I doubt that God intended the Part to be concerned with matters of Race, whoever christened this Part with that title surely must be using the same natal chart for the USA that I do and noticed Pluto's activity about the Part during the Civil War. Though it might actually have something to do with Galvanization, and if so, thus giving insight into why it might also be considered to be about Race and, or, Racial Consciousness, as it would have given the impetus to galvanize those opposed to slavery, those that were enslaved, et al. Pluto made it's first conjunction, within the same sidereal adjusted degree, the 12th of Taurus, in August of 1862, and then actually make a spot on conj. in June of 1863, again in retrograde in October of 1863, again in direct motion in May of 1864, once again in retrograde in December of 1864, and lastly, in direct motion, again in March of 1865. Pluto then went on to conjunct the USA's natal Part of Retribution, sidereal adjusted, in April of 1866... and the fate of the States of the former Confederacy, during the period known as The Reconstruction of the South, will attest to the effect of that conjunction.

[The entire period of the Civil War, and immediately thereafter abounds with the evidence of so much demonstrable astrological influence and affect, that I find it to be a bit disappointing that no historian has yet been convinced of this and taken the initiative to write a book about it. It is so undeniably evident that surely the masses of skeptics out there would have to concede to more than just the possibility that there may be something to astrology after all. I don't see how many could deny it any longer.Yet it did involve a great many astrological Parts and Traditional Astrologers don't assign much of any significant influence to the Parts, hardly any at all. I have a post, that I copied and saved, of a much noted Islamic astrologer, that I can't remember the full name of, "Meyer" something, or other, that was also a member of the now defunct ACTastrology website {Astrological Conference on Technique, that was by invitation only, or by petition and acceptance by Michael Erlewine, of which is how I got in.} who wrote me a scathing protest as to my demonstrating that Astrological Parts are both symbolically active as well as influential to personal lives and mundane events when conjuncted and activated by transiting influences. I'll dig it up and post if sometime in the Astrological Parts sub-forum, so as to share it.]

But, I have digressed here "big time", haven't I?]
The Sabian Symbol for the 12th degree of Gemini, where Uranus, and the Moons' South Node, were quite noticeably active during the first two years of the Civil War is [ibid]

"GEMINI 12°: A NEGRO GIRL FIGHTS FOR HER INDEPENDENCE IN THE CITY.

KEYNOTE: Liberation from the ghosts of the past.

While 'newly opened lands' theoretically offer virgin fields for experience, in fact those men and women who reach them find themselves conditioned by their own past. They carry the ghosts of their former lives and the memories of collective social patterns with which they had identified their egos. Every new beginning is surrounded with ghosts (or personal and social karma). The racial struggle for equality of opportunity must go on, even if this equality is officially guaranteed by the Law. The struggle is within and takes many forms. The Puritans brought to the theoretically 'New World' the fears, the fanaticism and the aggressiveness of their European existence, and these often grew more virulent under the conditions found in the New World. But no field of activity is ever totally 'virgin', It has its inhabitants, and they cling to their possessions or privileges. Whoever seeks to be truly an individual must be liberated from the past.

Here at this second stage we have the usual contrasting type of symbol. The new lands are opened, but they are filled with lives, and the pioneer's mind filled with ghosts, preconceptions, and prejudices or expectations. What is needed is a total LIQUIDATION of the past; virgin minds for virgin fields."

You couldn't just make this stuff up... anybody that wants to do all the math for themselves will see that it's just the way it truly is.

ElenaJ said:

Sorry, by inserting the True nodes at 23 degree 28, it becomes 24 Pisces, rather than 25.
Absolutely don't mean either to correct or to dispute, just adding another viewpoint.

Pisces 24: THE TINY ISLAND SEEMS LOST IN THE BROAD OCEAN, BUT ITS HAPPY INHABITANTS HAVE CREATED A GREAT WORLD ALL THEIR OWN

The keyword is CULTIVATION.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the input, as I wrote, I'm still not entirely sure which of the two choices is the correct one to consider. In 2014, when I initiated this thread I was leaning towards that of the Mean and lately I've been more inclined to believe it to be that of the True.
If you hadn't contributed I would not noticed the Sabian Symbol for the South Node [I used the Mean Node in the chart above, yet the True Node is in the same degree at 23* Cancer 18'] in the event chart for the Uranus 3rd natal return on July 12, 2028 is given by Rudhyar as [ibid.]

"CANCER 24°: A WOMAN AND TWO MEN CASTAWAYS ON A SMALL ISLAND OF THE SOUTH SEAS.

KEYNOTE: The focalization of complex inner potentialities in harmonic and concrete relationships.

We are dealing here with a special phase of the process of integration. The woman and the two men represent the three-fold aspect of the human personality, particularly at this stage when one of these aspects — the emotional life (the woman) — is facing the possibility, if not the inevitability, of relating itself to both the spiritual and the mental. This confrontation occurs on a small island of the South Seas, and 'south' always refers symbolically to the strong and passionate impulses of human nature. Somehow the three-fold consciousness has to develop a harmonious and well-integrated modus vivendi (a specific way of life). If successful, this will release powerful energies and will lead to the next symbolic scene.

We have reached the fourth stage of the twenty-third five-fold sequence. As is most often the case, we are introduced here to a specific technique — or at least to a problem of technique — in living. The three human beings should become integrated; but the form this integration will take seems left open. It has to be a concrete type of integration in terms of the emotional and biological drives of human nature (an island of the South Seas) and the field of integration is 'small'. The key to the problem of relationship should be the realization of INTER-DEPENDENCE. "

Just an odd coincidence? If it is, it's one of many....

Also, I assume that is Marc Edmond Jones interpretation of the Sabian given for Pisces 24*?
Since I do prefer Rudhyar's interpretations over those of Jones and as I have been citing Rudhyar consistently in this thread, I hope that you don't mind if I also post Danes interpretation for this degree of the Zodiac, as He used a different
Keyword" to describe it. [ibid.]
"
"PISCES 24°: ON A SMALL ISLAND SURROUNDED BY THE VAST EXPANSE OF THE SEA, PEOPLE ARE SEEN LIVING IN CLOSE INTERACTION.
KEYNOTE: The need to consciously accept one's own personal limitations in order to concentrate one's energies and to live a centered and fulfilled life. "
As you might see, Dane didn't use the word "Happy" to describe the inhabitants, but rather "centered and fulfilled", One doesn't necessarily imply the other. In addition, his "Keyword" is "CENTRALIZATION."... again with the theme of being 'centered'.
Just a different viewpoint, is all...
...but such a coincidence, 'ya know?

And yet another notable, quite notable, event that just came to my attention is that while Uranus will conj. the sidereal adjusted position of the USA's natal Mars [roughly at about 24* Gemini 48', give or take a minute of a degree or two, in early May of 2032... about seven or eight weeks prior to the Saturn - Uranus conjunction on June 28th of that year, Saturn, Mars and Mercury will all conjunct that same sidereal adjusted position of the natal Mars almost exactly a month after Uranus has done so... although, Mars will actually make a precise conj. the day after, they appear as though all three will be in the 25th degree of Gemini at the same time.
I'm a little burnt out from all the chart work I've done the last 24 hours at present, but I'll try to get around to casting some more this coming week.

Just an FYI, those latter degrees of Gemini are mostly about making do with less, being prepared for less fertile times, getting rid of excess and the sort.
May be the "Have Mores" should start getting adjusted to living a simpler life... or make plans to move to some other country?
That's just eight years away... and if Cayce's prediction will hold water, I can see it easily holding all it possibly could right about then. Coupled with that Pluto return in a couple of years... Yowza...!