Reversing of birth chart - Finding date, time and place of birth from chart

kaktuzz

Well-known member
Hello, I have been interested in this topic and tried to create an online calculator for reversing birth chart placements into date, time and place of birth.

It seems, that it finally started working, but there is a big issue with "data input accuracy".

It's necessary to input positions in Degrees°, Minutes' and Seconds'' accuracy to reverse/find out the exact time of birth and re-calculate the correct geo lat/long coordinations from ASC and MC.

for example:
- If you input Degrees° only, then the time of birth might be +- few hours off; and geo location might be +- continent off.
- If you input Degrees° and Minutes, then the time of birth might be +-1 minute off (which is quite OK); but geo location might be still pretty off.


If you are willing to give it a try, please let me know if you could find your birth data using this tool:
https://horoscopes.astro-seek.com/reverse-engineering-chart-astrology-online-calculator
 

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petosiris

Banned
Hello, I have been interested in this topic and tried to create an online calculator for reversing birth chart placements into date, time and place of birth.

It seems, that it finally started working, but there is a big issue with "data input accuracy".

It's necessary to input positions in Degrees°, Minutes' and Seconds'' accuracy to reverse/find out the exact time of birth and re-calculate the correct geo lat/long coordinations from ASC and MC.

for example:
- If you input Degrees° only, then the time of birth might be +- few hours off; and geo location might be +- continent off.
- If you input Degrees° and Minutes, then the time of birth might be +-1 minute off (which is quite OK); but geo location might be still pretty off.


If you are willing to give it a try, please let me know if you could find your birth data using this tool:
https://horoscopes.astro-seek.com/reverse-engineering-chart-astrology-online-calculator

Works with my birth data.
 

petosiris

Banned
You can find dates with the planets, latitude with the Midheaven and longitude with the Moon, but this seems easier to do with charts on the forum that delete their location. Now we can spy on people in less than a minute! :smile:
 

waybread

Well-known member
Something to consider in sleuthing through a deliberately anonymous birth chart is whether the person wants the birth location to be known. In a small community, for example, other people could probably determine who this person is. I think that if people wish to remain anonymous, we have to have really good reasons for finding out the personal details about them.

I sometimes post what I call my "close enough" birth chart. I've modified some of the details, though kept the chart's structure intact. My privacy is important to me.
 

petosiris

Banned
I found your birth date waybread. Passiflora managed to find my birth date with four planetary positions, cazimi Mercury and their houses. Solar Flare shared his chart with deleted birth place, but I found his exact city, latitude with the Midheaven and longitude with the Moon in a couple of minutes. Giving any astronomical placements means giving personal details - anyone should know that deleting the time and place does not guarantee anonymity. Maybe you can argue that this will make it easier for one to reverse. :bandit:
 
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petosiris

Banned
Not giving birth data means one can't use primary directions, solar and lunar revolutions, topocentric Moon, check syzygies etc. unless the astrologer has the time to reverse it.
 

kaktuzz

Well-known member
Something to consider in sleuthing through a deliberately anonymous birth chart is whether the person wants the birth location to be known. In a small community, for example, other people could probably determine who this person is. I think that if people wish to remain anonymous, we have to have really good reasons for finding out the personal details about them.

Hi waybread,

I understand that some people want to keep their privacy and I respect that ... but they should rather be aware, that if they post their chart - they are no more anonymous even if they delete birth data and place (it still might be re-calculated using some hand calculations).


I sometimes post what I call my "close enough" birth chart. I've modified some of the details, though kept the chart's structure intact. My privacy is important to me.


Yes. If someone wants to stay anonymous, it's really "better" to modify some small details; or hide minutes' and seconds'' of planet positions and display degrees° only.
 
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kaktuzz

Well-known member
Works with my birth data.

Thanks for confirming that it works with our birth data petosiris :)

Not giving birth data means one can't use primary directions, solar and lunar revolutions, topocentric Moon, check syzygies etc. unless the astrologer has the time to reverse it.

Yes, I primarily tried to make this tool for easy extraction of birth data and use them in everyone's preferred software, in preferred graphics and for other astrology calculations (like primary directions, or transits, solar returns etc..).


If someone wants to use that tool for "exploiting" someone's else privacy, he has most probably been doing it before without that tool :alien: - it just took more time doing all calculations by hand.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Thanks for confirming that it works with our birth data petosiris :)
Yes, I primarily tried to make this tool for easy extraction of birth data
and use them in everyone's preferred software, in preferred graphics
and for other astrology calculations
(like primary directions, or transits, solar returns etc..).
If someone wants to use that tool for "exploiting" someone's else privacy,
he has most probably been doing it before without that tool :alien: -
it just took more time doing all calculations by hand.


It is not difficult to figure out the precise year/date of birth
using basic astrological data displayed on natal chart images
but your new software certainly saves time katkuzz - many thanks :smile:
by the way
if you want "privacy"
either consult a professional astrologer
or
learn to read your own chart
 

waybread

Well-known member
I found your birth date waybread. Passiflora managed to find my birth date with four planetary positions, cazimi Mercury and their houses. Solar Flare shared his chart with deleted birth place, but I found his exact city, latitude with the Midheaven and longitude with the Moon in a couple of minutes. Giving any astronomical placements means giving personal details - anyone should know that deleting the time and place does not guarantee anonymity. Maybe you can argue that this will make it easier for one to reverse. :bandit:

My birth date with my sun's degree is accurate on my "close enough" chart. I have modified some details while retaining my chart's basic structure. So please don't bother doing any fancy-schmancy analysis of my chart. I don't want it and it would be wrong, in any event.

But I have to ask why you would go against someone's express wishes to retain her privacy.

It's fairly easy to find someone's birth date and even time with a little footwork in an ephemeris. Location is more difficult but can be gotten off an accurate MC.

But I think you need ethical reasons to invade the privacy of someone who wants to stay private. Curiosity alone doesn't cut it.

I have some concerns about identity theft. If s/he know someone's name, place, and date of birth, an unscrupulous person might be able to obtain more privileged information.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
Not giving birth data means one can't use primary directions, solar and lunar revolutions, topocentric Moon, check syzygies etc. unless the astrologer has the time to reverse it.

But maybe the person doesn't want you to analyse his chart like that. It's hubris to imagine that your curiosity trumps his/her right to privacy. You need to ask for permission.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Thanks for confirming that it works with our birth data petosiris :)



Yes, I primarily tried to make this tool for easy extraction of birth data and use them in everyone's preferred software, in preferred graphics and for other astrology calculations (like primary directions, or transits, solar returns etc..).


If someone wants to use that tool for "exploiting" someone's else privacy, he has most probably been doing it before without that tool :alien: - it just took more time doing all calculations by hand.

I'm well aware of this. I know how to look up someone's birth time and date using an ephemeris. I haven't bothered with the location, although I know it can be done. Which is why I would not advise someone who values his privacy to post a completely accurate chart.

I don't think JA has ever posted her/his chart, which is probably the only way to keep one's info completely private. But then a forum like this one would be a much different site if nobody posted horoscopes.

I don't know what is your view of horoscope reading, but to me it has to be approached with enormous amounts of consideration and respect for the chart native. Reading a horoscope gives you a window into the person's soul.

We should to be very careful about where we tread uninvited.
 

petosiris

Banned
This could already be done, easily. Besides such a calculation has other purposes besides spying (can such an easy thing to do be called spying?). Neugebauer and Van Hoesen did the same procedure with Hellenistic horoscopes for historical and astronomical purposes. An astrologer may have some personal printed chart that he forgot the identity, date or place of.
 

petosiris

Banned
But maybe the person doesn't want you to analyse his chart like that. It's hubris to imagine that your curiosity trumps his/her right to privacy. You need to ask for permission.

Every natal chart is inherently topocentric. One can't do astrology without working with the place of birth. Placidus houses for example are dependent on the birth place. When the astrologer reads the chart, he is reading the planetary influence for that specific place. If the Midheaven and the nonagesimal are conjunct in some place far away from the equinoxes, I immediately imagine and feel the equatorial influence and similarly the chilly influence of the polar regions where the Midheaven is often far from the nonagesimal. Sorry for invading your privacy in this way.

if you want "privacy"
either consult a professional astrologer
or
learn to read your own chart

That is a solid advice. :smile:
 
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waybread

Well-known member
The ethics of horoscope readings are generally that celebrities in the public eye, people who specifically ask to have their charts read, and third party persons who remain anonymous are fair game. If someone specifically does not want her/his chart analysed, or not analysed for particular purposes, we have to respect that.

In all of cases we have to be cautious and respectful.
 
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