Venus/Pluto in Synastry and Composite?

i like this thread, and thanks for that link on venus-pluto.

i have this aspect in synastry with a lover i have recently ended things with. everything i've read here is a mirror to my own experience.

obsession/compulsion
feeling degraded
jealousy and manipulation

it's always so hot and tempestuous and makes you feel alive, doesn't it? until the bad feelings seep in, pour in, flood in, and take over.

i finally had to come to grips with MY desire for peace of mind over my desire of the physical plane. it's not an easy one, by any stretch, but maybe that's how ugly it had to get in order for my venus (pisces) to stand up and say "No Mas."

Wow. I have the charts for my boyfriend, my ex-boyfriend, and 4 other guys I've slept with, and every single one of them features a Venus-Pluto connection in the synastry, composite, or both.

Guy 1: My Pluto conjunct his Venus by less than a degree (as well as his Pluto conjunct My Moon by the same orb).

Guy 2: Composite Pluto trine Venus with 6* orb (as well as trining the Sun with a 6* orb and the Mercury with a 2* orb).

Guy 3: His Venus smack-dab in the middle of my Moon-Pluto Conjunction (and only a degree away was his Eros).

Guy 4: Without a doubt the hottest "meeting" ever. That's not to say Making Love hasn't been better (which it has), but this was the purely, pristinely primal. His Venus, like Guy 3's, is on the midpoint of my already-conjunct Moon-Pluto. His Venus was also trine my Mars within 2*. His Pluto then trines my Venus (2*) and squares my Mars (0*). The square of His Pluto-My Mars is actually a completion (for both of our charts) of a T-square formation, where every aspect is within 2* (the T-square is His Pluto in Libra, My Mars in Cancer, His Jupiter in Aries, and My Neptune/Saturn in Capricorn).

Finally (for this guy), Composite Pluto sextiles Venus (3*) and trines Mars (5*).

Ex-Boyfriend: Composite Pluto square Venus (3*) and Mars (5*).

Boyfriend: My Pluto squares his Sun (2*), conjuncts his Neptune (0*), and trines his Chiron (0*). Our Plutos sextile each other (2*). His Pluto sextiles my Moon (3*), squares my Mercury (5*), squares my Venus (1*), sextiles my Mars (1*), squares my Jupiter (3*), trines my Saturn (2*), trines my Uranus (6*), and trines my Neptune (1*).

~~~~~~

As you can see, I apparently am drawn to the intensity of Pluto in a big way. Probably my natal 8th house stellium (Sun/Merc/Ven/Jup) and my 1st house Moon-Pluto conjunction in Scorpio.

as regards these venusian/plutonian relations, i can remember something that robert blaschke, (still with us in spirit) told me:

"Intensity is no equal to intimacy."

Intimacy takes trust and truth and mutual reciprocation. My experience with this man, his pluto opp. my venus lacked all three of these elements.

The depths that this relationship has taken me are staggering. I suppose at some point, perhaps I am already beginning to, I will realize that it did take me deep into my own desires, which revealed an uncomfortable darkness that needed to be exposed and cleansed. That's pluto working.

Nonetheless, to want someone that is so bad for you, who takes you to the depths of despair and humiliation? I'll pass on this one next time!

Post Script*
Thinking about helpful tranists that are helping me move away from this relationship - Transiting Uranus in Aries is conjuncting our composite 8th house moon. Transformation? possibly, but definitely an ending. I think it takes the powerful outer planets Ur-Nep-Pl to bust a couple free or from the Venus-Pluto grip. How people survive this type of relationship is mindboggling. I felt if I was to stay locked into it one more minute, I would go crazy - so much manipulation and power trips by both of us. In fact, I might have gone a bit over the top in my behaviors with him. I think I'll be so grateful I got myself free from it that I won't even be embarrassed by my behaviors working to do it. There's gotta be an easier way. But this is my experience only.

MaeMae said:

How people survive this type of relationship is mindboggling. I felt if I was to stay locked into it one more minute, I would go crazy - so much manipulation and power trips by both of us. In fact, I might have gone a bit over the top in my behaviors with him. I think I'll be so grateful I got myself free from it that I won't even be embarrassed by my behaviors working to do it. There's gotta be an easier way. But this is my experience only.

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It's critically important how the two people manifest the energies in a Venus-Pluto situation. Yes, it can manifest in power plays, manipulation, debasement, and humiliation. But it doesn't have to be. I find value in exploring the depths and heights of the human soul with my love interests. But less plutonic-type people might dislike this intensity, or not be able to handle it. For some people, though, it's the highest path to take.

MaeMae said:

I think it takes the powerful outer planets Ur-Nep-Pl to bust a couple free or from the Venus-Pluto grip.

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I can testify to that. My boyfriend of 3 years, with whom I lived (and yet had a very unhealthy relationship of bickering), we had Composite Pluto square Venus with a 3* orb. When we broke up, there wasn't an exact date, but it was broadly toward the end of July, 2010. At the time, the Saturn/Uranus opposition at 0* Libra/Aries was forming a T-square with Pluto at 3* Capricorn. The Sun was in the first few degrees of Leo [rulership], forming a trine with Uranus and sextile with Saturn, and I felt it was directing the energy for me to break from the relationship.

Good ole Venus and Pluto. I have this aspect in synastry with my husband. Venus square my Pluto. I'm the Pluto person. We've been married for nearly 15 years. Not sure how it affects him but we do have the occasional power struggle.
Many many moons ago I had a Venus/Pluto opposition with a guy I was dating. I was the Venus. Venus seems to be the one burdened by the relationship and when Venus tries to pull out, then the Pluto person is obsessive and controlling.. like please don't leave.
I felt like a weight had been lifted when I finally got out. Relieved.

Serendipity said:

Good ole Venus and Pluto. I have this aspect in synastry with my husband. Venus square my Pluto. I'm the Pluto person. We've been married for nearly 15 years. Not sure how it affects him but we do have the occasional power struggle.
Many many moons ago I had a Venus/Pluto opposition with a guy I was dating. I was the Venus. Venus seems to be the one burdened by the relationship and when Venus tries to pull out, then the Pluto person is obsessive and controlling.. like please don't leave.
I felt like a weight had been lifted when I finally got out. Relieved.

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I can relate.

What about the aspects of the ruler of 8th??? Do you think it equals pluto-aspects?
In my experience it does, and it sometimes explains intense attractions you would not expect from the general overview.
kama

Kama said:

What about the aspects of the ruler of 8th??? Do you think it equals pluto-aspects?
In my experience it does, and it sometimes explains intense attractions you would not expect from the general overview.
kama

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Personally, I wouldn't say it equals the aspects of pluto-venus bewteen charts. Planets and aspects create active energy. Houses are more a place for them to be carried out. But certainly the house issues/matters will be touched off, and if by stressful aspect to ruler, it can be an unpleasant visit, or vice versa, if it's a positive aspect, it would feel comfortable to visit that house.

An synastry aspect to the ruler brings attention to the house matters for the native. The synastry is more of an exchange of energies.

I am strong in this venus/pluto aspect in synastry. Since I am myself have a venus/pluto conjunction natally, I am able to read his motives. Many times, we broke up the relationship but all these times, I didn't succeed leaving him because I was feeling lonely and depressed, however, I recently told him not even friendship, nothing. In this aspect, we cannot even remain friends, no way, the intensity is always there and danger as well. This man wants only sex and get into myself profoundly. He is bad because he is not free to have a relationship. He wants to destroy my dignity and soul.

melisa -

"girl, can we talk?!"

although i might suggest the pluto person might not set out to destroy venus' dignity, values and self-esteem, they just won't be troubled if that's the result.

the pluto person's desire is conscienceless and unconscious at times - they are driven by deep, internal desires which are often beyond their own comprehension - not the way neptune is like "huh? was i doing that? i didn't mean to hurt you," but the pluto way, "well, if you aren't strong enough, then you deserve it I guess...

my take.

Unu, this is a great information, much better than any information from other websites. However, I am very private and reserved. I never allowed somebody to go beyond of what I am. The pluto person in my life, wanted to get into me but I am sure that he is not having a good purpose for doing this. If I let him in I would be so stupid and I would never forgive myself. The pluto person manipulates the venus person in a psychological way to the point that the pluto person will find out the venus weakness and will use it for his/her advantage. I feel secure having him out of my life and even if there is an obsession on my side, I would not let him to get in. The sexual attraction is very strong but I should know how to have self control, the same for him.

Whats the difference of venus/pluto when its only in the composite?

Whos venus and whos pluto? Or do they both go back and fourth being both?

Lithuel said:

It's critically important how the two people manifest the energies in a Venus-Pluto situation. Yes, it can manifest in power plays, manipulation, debasement, and humiliation. But it doesn't have to be. I find value in exploring the depths and heights of the human soul with my love interests. But less plutonic-type people might dislike this intensity, or not be able to handle it. For some people, though, it's the highest path to take.

I can testify to that. My boyfriend of 3 years, with whom I lived (and yet had a very unhealthy relationship of bickering), we had Composite Pluto square Venus with a 3* orb. When we broke up, there wasn't an exact date, but it was broadly toward the end of July, 2010. At the time, the Saturn/Uranus opposition at 0* Libra/Aries was forming a T-square with Pluto at 3* Capricorn. The Sun was in the first few degrees of Leo [rulership], forming a trine with Uranus and sextile with Saturn, and I felt it was directing the energy for me to break from the relationship.

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Lithuel -

You make a good point, however I might suggest that the Venus-Pluto aspect seems to be exacerbated by something like Mars-Pluto or Moon-Pluto. A yin-yang orientation to intensity and passion on emotional and physical levels that defy standards and protocol (such sterile words, I know, but true.)

I have Moon-Pluto square and a wide but understanding Mars-Pluto sextile (I am generous with orbs, through experience, up to 7 or 8 or even 10 degrees when the powerhouse planets are in play).

...the higher path to take is key here.

Pluto, similar to Saturn, expects us to go the distance. Saturn wants beneficial outcomes to define us. Pluto wants the experience to define us. "Are you tough enough?" Two completely different means to an end. They both demand that we show what we're made of, though legitimate means and not-so-legitimate means is the dividing point.

Pluto-Venus is balls-to-the-wall and well, Saturn-Venus, not so much....but intent and desire meet up and it can become a free-for-all for Pluto-Venus.

Venus-Pluto, as I've been pondering, synastrically, is very much about a "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" kind of way. Saturn is different, "may the best man win..." Both will go the distance, but with different outcomes in mind. Pluto wants depth, visit the belly of the beast kind of thing. Venus gets caught up in that web, gets sucked dry alive and well, not pretty if it doesn't nourish Venus. Saturn wants things to be manageable.

In my own Venus-Pluto instance, with this transiting stellium Aries opposing Saturn here and there- my 9th and 3rd, I finally got a dose of Saturn when I understood on a "big picture/intellectual" (i.e. not emotionally based) level, that I was giving a deep part of myself to someone who wasn't willing to do the same. Somewhere, that Aries/Libra me vs. you polarity reared its head about this in my 9th/3rd.

There is a learning and self-realization that comes with these Venus-Pluto couplings, but it is not without pain. I really think in these instances, we have to look at the supporting aspects or transits to our charts to break us free from the hold. For those who can stick with it, my hat's off to you, truly, knowing that Saturn is operating. ****, what a cocktail that must be!

P.S., With this Mars energy rampant, and thinking about the Venus-Pluto aspect, it reminds me of the Pat Benetar song, Love is a Battlefield

It has been a while since I have last seen the pluto individual, It has been hard, believe me, but the best thing. I still grieve, or rather obssess. I am guessing this will go on for a bit. I have venus square pluto in my natal. I guess this is part of the problem. I have read such a lot of bad things about people with venus square pluto, and I usually sweat after reading.
some of the things they say about people with this aspect is pretty harsh and I do not aspire to any of those descriptions.
I do obsess, about everything, especially people I care about. I do feel things to the core, at the gut level, intensly, but I take my life seriously and adhere to strict moral code. This is why I was able to pull back from the Pluto person albeit a traumatic and painful experience of my life.
With this pluto person, I miss him, but it is good he is out of my life. I think about him all the time. time will heal...time is a blessing
I have cancer sun
capricorn moon
scorpio rising 18 degrees
venus and mars in the eighth house
venus square pluto
moon trine pluto
sun sesquid(something or other) pluto
not quite sure what all this means, still learning.

I wish I could have had the opportunity to experience the good part of this aspect. I know there are some good things with this aspect. It cannot be all bad.

Moonwillow, I feel your pain...our experience about this venus and pluto aspect is very similar. I have my venus conjuncts pluto natally in my 10 house of career and public affairs. I met the pluto person at work, at my restaurant business( a place where I deal with the public). He liked my social skills and charming attitude (the venusian traits). Then he was fascinated about my empathetic and comprehensive side for people (my moon in scorpio trining his ascendant in cancer) - water signs.

Don't be afraid for having your venus square pluto natally, in fact, this is a good thing because you are able to handle the situation much better than a person with no venus/pluto aspect natally. Actually you understand the pluto energy very well since you already were experiencing it in yourself, thus everytime you meet a person with a venus/pluto hard aspect, you will know when to pull back from this person and make a smart decision for your own wellness.

Moonwillow, I feel your pain...our experience about this venus and pluto aspect is very similar. I have my venus conjuncts pluto natally in my 10 house of career and public affairs. I met the pluto person at work, at my restaurant business( a place where I deal with the public). He liked my social skills and charming attitude (the venusian traits). Then he was fascinated about my empathetic and comprehensive side for people (my moon in scorpio trining his ascendant in cancer) - water signs.

Don't be afraid for having your venus square pluto natally, in fact, this is a good thing because you are able to handle the situation much better than a person with no venus/pluto aspect natally. Actually you understand the pluto energy very well since you already were experiencing it in yourself, thus everytime you meet a person with a venus/pluto hard aspect, you will know when to pull back from this person and make a smart decision for your own wellness.

By the way, he, the pluto person, wants to see me and have physical contact with me, to me, this is hard just to forget about him. He has an urgency to know how I am and protect me but I cannot trust him. He doesn't even realize his manipulative side and how hurtful he is to me at times. Sometimes as the venus person, I am not able to get rid of the sexual thoughts about him and when I see him, he turns me on quickly...drives me crazy at times.. never felt it too intense

I also have venus sq Pluto natally... I do think about people alot, I also fantasize about them (venus/mars hits neptune) For me its just "normal" I really dont feel intense feelings for everyone.. Its actually rare for me to really really feel for someone.. Or to even care.. Even though Im thinking/fantizing about them.. lol.. But then after a short while, Im like blahh and I totally forget about that person and go on to the next and start all over again..

I fee it more with moon/pluto.. I really like moon/pluto... Thats when I feel it intensly.
Now when I got hit with moon/pluto venus/pluto.. With a person that also has venus sq pluto in his natal..
Omg it hit me sooo hard.. I got the obessision (that describes natal venus/pluto) I just would do anything anything.. Its been the most intense feelings I have ever felt.. I liked it, but at the same time it drove me nuts..

Its been very hard to let him go. Ive had a hard time getting over it... We became friends to keep each other in our lives.. But thats been weird.... The fantasy and obession got worse for me..
Im still working to get over this. Its been one of the most challanging things I have had to overcome...
Im still at a total loss..
This guy just hit every single "spot" in my chart..

sighhh

Hang in there MelissaM, I feel your pain too, and I very sympatico with you. As long as he continues to be in your life, there will always be pain, because the feelings will always be there.
I will never forget the pluto person, I really do believe in this Karmic tie as annoying as this is. I wish I could have something wise to tell you, to help you through this. But this takes alot of strength and wisdom. These are really hard lessons.
You are in my prayers MelissaM. You will gain strength from this and wisdom too. Mother time, always heals.

Lion o Ness, I wish I had the ability to detach like you. You would think with a moon in capricorn detaching would be easy, just has not worked out for me. I am sure other aspects in my chart might explain this.

With pluto person, I also had a moon trine pluto, and sun conjunct pluto...all this was so convoluted you know... we had some uranus garbage too
sun conjunct uranus. I know all these aspects did not help the situation either, just added fuel to the misery.